On Wednesday's Morning Joe, NBC News national affairs analyst John Heilemann made a rare admission that Hollywood and the "mainstream media" are "largely left of center" as he countered his colleague Anand Giridharadas claiming that Democrats have not been active enough in the "cultural process" to counter President Donald Trump.
During a discussion of what Democrats have been getting wrong in trying to run against Trump and how they should change tactics for the next big elections, co-host Joe Scarborough turned to Giridharadas and posed: "They're not running against Donald Trump in 2028. Maybe they're running against him a little bit in 2026, but they're not running against him in 2028, right? So, but don't they need to figure out who they are first?"
Giridharadas began by arguing that Trump understands the importance of "emotion and psychology" in mounting political battles, and then complained about Democrats:
And it's incredible to me how few people understand that on the other side -- how few people understand the importance of being a cultural -- having a cultural figure -- a cultural presence that helps people sort through. Donald Trump -- for all of his profound, personal, and cerebral limitations -- is a culture maker and is a player in the culture, and is participating in the meeting making process that voters are engaged in every day. "Why did this happen? Why did that happen? Why are eggs expensive? Why are kids learning this in school?"
He then added:
Donald Trump is running almost unopposed in the cultural meeting making process in this country. And the Democratic party -- and we can talk about other institutions -- the Democratic party, above all, has abdicated any role in participating in the cultural process. Instead, it stands at the end of the pipeline saying, "Please five dollars and please vote," and is ignoring 90 percent of where politics happens, which is where people figure out the world, figure out what they think, make sense of things, and form preferences.
When Heilemann got his turn to speak, he argued that his MSNBC colleague was partially wrong about Democrats not being engaged in the "cultural process" as he admitted that much of the "mainstream media" has long been dominated by liberals:
...a couple of important things to say. One is to Anand -- the end of Anand's last point. It is of -- it's a -- it is true and also not true that Democrats -- and I say -- when I say Democrats here, I don't mean the party, but liberals, the left, the left of center or whatever -- aren't part of the cultural conversation. In fact, there are a couple of different cultural conversations going on in America at the same time.
He added:
And one of the reasons why the cultural conversation on the right has become -- has gotten so much traction -- is because of the fact that the left -- the Democrats, whatever you want to call them -- has been seen as dominating the mainstream cultural conversation for so long. Who controls Hollywood? Who controls the media? That's -- you'd have to be kind of nuts to think that the mainstream media and the mainstream entertainment establishment in America isn't largely left of center. What's happening is there's these two different conversations, and what's happened is that the conversation -- and this gets to your point, John, that, is that right now, somehow the Democratic party finds itself in a place where it is no longer the home of working Americans largely.
Heilemann went on to lament that Democrats have failed to hold together the coalition of blue collar workers, losing many to Trump.
Transcript follows:
MSNBC's Morning Joe
May 21, 2025
7:19 p.m. Eastern
JOE SCARBOROUGH: They're not running against Donald Trump in 2028. Maybe they're running against him a little bit in 2026, but they're not running against him in 2028, right? So, but don't they need to figure out who they are first?
ANAND GIRIDHARADAS, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: And they have to know what battlefield they are on. I think the answer to your (addressing Mike Barnicle) question -- one of them -- is that Donald Trump understands maybe uniquely that politics in this day and age is played on a level of emotion and psychology and attention as much as it is on policy. And it's incredible to me how few people understand that on the other side -- how few people understand the importance of being a cultural -- having a cultural figure -- a cultural presence that helps people sort through. Donald Trump -- for all of his profound, personal, and cerebral limitations -- is a culture maker and is a player in the culture, and is participating in the meeting making process that voters are engaged in every day. "Why did this happen? Why did that happen? Why are eggs expensive? Why are kids learning this in school?"
Donald Trump is running almost unopposed in the cultural meeting making process in this country. And the Democratic party -- and we can talk about other institutions -- the Democratic party, above all, has abdicated any role in participating in the cultural process. Instead, it stands at the end of the pipeline saying, "Please five dollars and please vote," and is ignoring 90 percent of where politics happens, which is where people figure out the world, figure out what they think, make sense of things, and form preferences.
JONATHAN LEMIRE: And, John Heilemann, certainly Democrats have struggled to handle Donald Trump, but they've been even worse at sort of identifying themselves and pitching a message going forward -- with a few exceptions. We know the crowds that Bernie Sanders and AOC have drawn, but, as you speak to members of the party, you know, what are they saying here? Because so many Democrats that I've talked to are frustrated that even though they're still doing it, there's a part of it right now still consumed with the past and not looking for the future and a new message.
JOHN HEILEMANN, NBC NEWS NATIONAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Right, well, John, I think there's two -- a couple of important things to say. One is to Anand -- the end of Anand's last point. It is of -- it's a -- it is true and also not true that Democrats -- and I say -- when I say Democrats here, I don't mean the party, but liberals, the left, the left of center or whatever -- aren't part of the cultural conversation. In fact, there are a couple of different cultural conversations going on in America at the same time.
And one of the reasons why the cultural conversation on the right has become -- has gotten so much traction -- is because of the fact that the left -- the Democrats, whatever you want to call them -- has been seen as dominating the mainstream cultural conversation for so long. Who controls Hollywood? Who controls the media? That's -- you'd have to be kind of nuts to think that the mainstream media and the mainstream entertainment establishment in America isn't largely left of center. What's happening is there's these two different conversations, and what's happened is that the conversation -- and this gets to your point, John, that, is that right now, somehow the Democratic party finds itself in a place where it is no longer the home of working Americans largely.
And if Bobby Kennedy -- the coalition that Bobby Kennedy was trying to put together in 1968 before he was killed -- that coalition of working class whites, working class Latinos, working class African Americans -- that coalition has been put together more effectively by Donald Trump than by anybody in the Democratic party. ...
