New York Post columnist Douglas Murray joined HBO’s Real Time with Bill Maher on Friday to promote his new book about Israel, but later, during the Overtime segment, Maher couldn’t help but also ask about his native Britain’s supreme court ruling that the definition of a woman is based off of biology and not self-identification. From there, Murray would go on to calmly dismantle Maher’s desire for a “sensible center” on the issue.
Murray said of the court’s ruling that it was a victory for everybody, but “particularly women who've been defamed and lied about and bullied and chased and much more for years, they were right. And I just think, apart from being a statement of the obvious, isn’t it amazing that the best legal minds in Britain spent years having to work out the first thing we knew as a species?”
Maher then sought to reassure people that he wasn’t a conservative on the issue, “But just to be clear, we’re not saying there’s not such a thing as trans, right? We’re not saying there's no such thing as someone who is quote unquote ‘born in the wrong body.’"
Murray calmly held firm, “I don't think people get born in the wrong body, no.”
A startled Maher reassured people that, “Oh, I do.”
He continued, “Yeah, I mean, I think there's a default setting for humans. Like, we should acknowledge that it's not just every time there's a baby, “Oh, who knows what the fuck it is.” That’s crazy, but there are variations: homosexuality and then, you know, but it’s how we handle that.”
Maher further argued, “I mean, and I think we would agree that, you know, children, and this is where we're, this is where America is now an outlier country. We're the only country that went for—and I guess Trump was reversing it, but certainly under Biden. Who went fully toward that, like, we don't care what age, kids can self-diagnose themselves. I mean, that to me was going way too far. On this again, nobody just comes back to the sensible center.”
Throughout, Minnesota Democratic Sen. Tina Smith was voicing her agreement with Maher, and she now declared, “Yeah, I mean, to me, the sensible center is that, like, you respect people, you trust parents, you let parents figure out what to do with their kids, and you don't need a bunch of politicians in Washington—”
Maher countered, “That is not the Democratic position, at least here in California.”
After Smith claimed it is her position, a hopeful Maher resumed, “Good. Good. That's, I think, that's where the Democratic Party should—that is not the position that we've had here in California, which is like, don't tell the parents what the kids are doing at school. That's a whole— and that you really alienate voters. Parents are voters. When you're not a parent yet. You know, it's like, ‘Oh, voting, whatever,’ you know.”
Murray then returned to point out the problem with this fallacious appeal to the center is that it is factually incorrect. With a possible allusion to the January 24 episode of Real Time where Maher claimed there are more than two sexes, Murray proclaimed, “Sex is not a spectrum. I mean, there’s male and female, there are some people with very unusual conditions who deserve absolute sympathy and support, but that does not mean that we're a hermaphroditic species. We're just not.”
Maher tried to defend himself, “No, but not, no, not the whole species. But this goes back, I mean, like, I mean, I don't want to use the term ‘chicks with dicks,’ but I could. I mean. This goes back to, like, Ancient Rome and, like, there was always people who were, like, not—”
Murray is correct. Yes, intersex people exist, but what Maher can’t seem to shake is that an extremely rare exception to the rule is just that: an exception. And saying that you have a feeling that you were born in the wrong body is quite a different argument than the fact that you are.
Here is a transcript for the April 18 show:
HBO Real Time with Bill Maher Overtime
4/18/2025
54 seconds
DOUGLAS MURRAY: All the, particularly women who've been defamed and lied about and bullied and chased and much more for years, they were right. And I just think, apart from being a statement of the obvious, isn’t it amazing that the best legal minds in Britain spent years having to work out the first thing we knew as a species?
BILL MAHER: But just to be clear, we’re not saying there’s not such a thing as trans, right? We’re not saying there's no such thing as someone who is quote unquote "born in the wrong body."
MURRAY: I don't think people get born in the wrong body, no.
MAHER: Oh, I do.
TINA SMITH: I do.
MAHER: Yeah, I mean, I think there's a default setting for humans.
SMITH: Yeah.
MAHER: Like, we should acknowledge that it's not just every time there's a baby, “Oh, who knows what the fuck it is.” That’s crazy, but there are variations—
SMITH: There are variations.
MAHER:—homosexuality and then, you know, but it’s how we handle that—
SMITH: That’s right. It's a continuum.
MAHER: You know, I mean, and I think we would agree that, you know, children, and this is where we're, this is where America is now an outlier country. We're the only country that went for—and I guess Trump was reversing it, but certainly under Biden. Who went fully toward that, like, we don't care what age, kids can self-diagnose themselves. I mean, that that to me was going way too far on this again. Nobody just comes back to the sensible center.
SMITH: Yeah, I mean, to me, the sensible center is that, like, you respect people, you trust parents, you let parents figure out what to do with their kids, and you don't need a bunch of politicians in Washington—
MAHER: That is not the Democratic position, at least here in California.
SMITH: Well, that’s my position.
MAHER: Good. Good. That's, I think, that's where the Democratic Party should—that is not the position that we've had here in California, which is like, don't tell the parents what the kids are doing at school. That's a whole— and that you really alienate voters. Parents are voters. When you're not a parent yet. You know, it's like, “Oh, voting, whatever,” you know.
MURRAY: Sex is not a spectrum. I mean, there’s male and female, there are some people with very unusual conditions who deserve absolute sympathy and support, but that does not mean that we're a hermaphroditic species. We're just not.
MAHER: No, but not, no, not the whole species. But this goes back, I mean, like, I mean, I don't want to use the term "chicks with dicks," but I could.
MATT WELCH: You did.
MAHER: I mean. This goes back to, like, Ancient Rome and, like, there was always people who were, like, not—
WELCH: It's not hard to get to toleration and acceptance without rewriting biology, right?
MAHER: Right. Right.
WELCH: It's a norm—that's your normal center.
