One interesting development over the first month and a half of the Trump Administration has been the degree to which the media has deeply passionate opinions about the federal government’s bureaucratic org chart. On MSNBC’s Saturday edition of The Katie Phang Show, the eponymous host welcomed AFT president Randi Weingarten to simultaneously claim the Department of Education does not control education and that the administration’s goal to get rid of it is the same as getting rid of education. Meanwhile, Phang would argue they are doing so because they want people to be “ignorant.”
Phang began by asking, “They're trying to eliminate the existence of the Department of Education. Why, if it doesn't make a difference to you if a Republican or a Democrat is dismantling the DoE going to be such a disaster for our country?”
Weingarten responded that “It's a disaster symbolically, as much as it's a disaster in reality. Think about a country whose president basically says as their first acts, ‘I'm getting rid of education.’”
She continued, “What does that say about the future? What does that say about—take all the things that Republicans believe in: entrepreneurship, ingenuity, creativity. How do you say to a country, ‘I'm taking, I'm getting rid of the one department, the smallest department in the federal government, the Department of Education.’ Now on the facts. This is what the Department of Education does. It is about opportunity.”
Later, Weingarten, who was getting quite emotional, elaborated that the department is mostly a money distribution center thanks to Title I, “It's so we can create that ladder of opportunity. It's so we can make sure that kids can succeed. Poor kids, kids with disabilities, kids who want to go to career tech ed. Kids who are first generation college goers to get some scholarship money, that's what the Department of Education does. And that's why you're seeing across the country people saying, 90 percent of the kids in America go to public schools. They know what Title I is. They know what IDEA is.”
She claimed conservative claims about a federal takeover of education are incorrect, “The federal government does not control education. The states do, local school boards do. This is about opportunity. That is why so many people are so mad about it, because they're just taking opportunity away from kids that don't have it.”
During her confirmation hearing, Secretary Linda McMahon claimed that she considers Title I and IDEA (Individuals with Disabilities Education Act) separate from the task of shuttering the department. She suggested that the latter could be given to Health and Human Services. Other proposals have included shifting civil rights enforcement to the Justice Department and student loans to the Treasury Department.
Still, Weingarten rolled on, “I’m really angry. I taught kids in Clara Barton High School in Brooklyn, New York. Virtually all of them got Title I funds. I taught AP Gov. One of the things that they just cut was the We The People competition, which was taught in ruby red districts like Van Wert, Ohio, and deep blue districts like my district. Why? If we need civics, would you cut the We The People competition? It's $11 million. Why would you do that?”
Phang claimed to have the answer, “Because they want the people to be ignorant. They want the people to not have a proper basis of education, and they want to make sure that the disadvantaged stay disadvantaged. Which is why what you said is important for us to reiterate here too: the Department of Education does not control the curriculum of your kids' school. It's local. It's local and state.”
So, then what’s the problem with a little bureaucratic reorganizing?
Here is a transcript for the March 8 show:
MSNBC The Katie Phang Show
3/8/2025
12:16 PM ET
KATIE PHANG: Joining me now is Randi Weingarten, president of the American Federation of Teachers. Randi, I'm a huge fan of all teachers. I think teachers are underpaid, underappreciated, undervalued. But now it goes a step further. They're trying to eliminate the existence of the Department of Education. Why, if it doesn't make a difference to you if a Republican or a Democrat is dismantling the DoE going to be such a disaster for our country?
RANDI WEINGARTEN: So first, it's a disaster symbolically, as much as it's a disaster in reality. Think about a country whose president basically says as their first acts, “I'm getting rid of education.”
What does that say about the future? What does that say about—take all the things that Republicans believe in: entrepreneurship, ingenuity, creativity. How do you say to a country, "I'm taking, I'm getting rid of the one department, the smallest department in the federal government, the Department of Education.” Now on the facts. This is what the Department of Education does.
PHANG: Yes.
WEINGARTEN: It is about opportunity.
…
It's so we can create that ladder of opportunity. It's so we can make sure that kids can succeed. Poor kids, kids with disabilities, kids who want to go to career tech ed. Kids who are first-generation college-goers to get some scholarship money, that's what the Department of Education does. And that's why you're seeing across the country people saying, 90 percent of the kids in America go to public schools. They know what Title I is. They know what IDEA is.
The federal government does not control education. The states do, local school boards do. This is about opportunity. That is why so many people are so mad about it, because they're just taking opportunity away from kids that don't have it.
So, billionaires’ kids, of billionaires, they have it. They go to private schools. Everyone else, 90 percent go to public schools. Don't take away their opportunity.
PHANG: So, let's stay on the facts.
WEINGARTEN: Sorry. I'm really angry about this.
PHANG: No, do not apologize—no, because—
WEINGARTEN: I’m really angry. I taught kids in Clara Barton High School in Brooklyn, New York. Virtually all of them got Title I funds. I taught AP Gov. One of the things that they just cut was the We The People competition, which was taught in ruby red districts like Van Wert, Ohio, and deep blue districts like my district.
Why? If we need civics, would you cut the We The People competition? It's $11 million. Why would you do that?
PHANG: Because they want the people to be ignorant. They want the people to not have a proper basis of education, and they want to make sure that the disadvantaged stay disadvantaged. Which is why what you said is important for us to reiterate here too: the Department of Education does not control the curriculum of your kids' school.
WEINGARTEN: No. In fact—
PHANG: It's local. It's local and state.
WEINGARTEN: In fact, again, some facts.
PHANG: Yes.
WEINGARTEN: In the—in 2015, right before Donald Trump became president, the first time there was a bipartisan coalition that got the education, the Elementary and Secondary Act changed. So, the Department of Education controls virtually nothing. It basically— your local school board and the state education department of your state control everything from curriculum to graduation requirements. The department is a supplement. It helps deal with opportunity to help level things up.
