On CNN This Morning, The Dispatch co-founder and CNN analyst Jonah Goldberg suggested that Biden and Trump could be impeached for their abusive, "grotesque" misuse of the pardon power--Biden in respect of his final-day pardons of family members, Trump for his sweeping pardons and commutations of January 6 defendants.
In support of his view, Goldberg cited James Madison, who said that a president using the pardon power to advance criminal or selfish schemes for his own benefit should be subject to impeachment. Goldberg was so disgusted by the Biden/Trump pardons that it made him want to amend the Constitution to remove the pardon power.
Goldberg called the January 6 pardons "flatly indefensible" and predicted, "both of the pardons, both Biden's and Trump's, are going to have unbelievable moral hazard knock-on effects and set terrible precedents going forward."
Former Biden comms director Kate Bedingfield, being "totally candid," mildly admitted to being "disappointed" by Biden's pardons on his way out the door.
Republican strategist Brad Todd suggested that Trump may have finally put 2020 behind him, and can now move on to other things.
Goldberg good-naturedly demurred. After telling Todd, "I love you, man," Goldberg argued that in an Aesopian way, it's in Trump's nature to do things this way, that "he will create many, many, many more moments that create bowel-stewing panic for Republican candidates trying to figure out what to say."
Goldberg's mention of Trump's "Aesopian" nature was presumably a cryptic reference to the fable of the scorpion and the frog.
Here's the transcript.
CNN This Morning
1/21/25
6:06 am ETKASIE HUNT: Jonah Goldberg, I'd actually like to start with you because if you had told me on January 6th, 2021, or really any day before that day unfolded, that Republicans were going to be pardoning people who violently assaulted police officers, I would have told you that you were living on a different planet than the one that I was living on.
What did we just see happen here?
JONAH GOLDBERG: Yeah, so I'll just be clear. I think yesterday is the first in American history where two presidents have so abused their pardon power as to make me want to amend the Constitution to get rid of the pardon power.
James Madison, during the debates over the ratification of the Constitution, said that a president who used the pardon power to advance essentially criminal or selfish schemes for his own benefit should be subject to impeachment. And I think both of them did an impeachable offense yesterday.
This is grotesque. I fully expected thousands of people to get pardons or clemency of some kind or another, the nonviolent ones, you know, the ones where it was a gray area and stuff like that. But the blanket pardons for all of them is, I think, just flatly indefensible.
And it's going to have just, both of the pardons, both Biden's and Trump's, are going to have unbelievable moral hazard knock-on effects and set terrible precedents going forward.
. . .
PRESIDENT TRUMP: I was surprised that President Biden, would go and pardon his whole family, because that makes him look very guilty. You know, I could have pardoned my family. I could have pardoned myself, my family. I said, if I do that, it's going to make me look very guilty. I don't think I'd be sitting here, frankly.
HUNT: Kate Bedingfield, a pretty frank political assessment from President Trump there. What has, I mean, how do you feel about Biden pardoning his family members, especially on the way out in a preemptive way? And, you know, how much damage do you think he did? How much damage do you think Democrats think he did?
KATE BEDINGFIELD: It was a disappointing move. I was disappointed in it. I think he has spoken so eloquently about the need to preserve the rule of law. As he was coming into office in 2020, he talked about the idea of Trump pardoning his family and said that it would send a bad message.
And I think it's hard to argue that it didn't yesterday. I will be totally candid. I think it was disappointing.
. . .
BRAD TODD: January 2020, 2021 has always been an Achilles for Donald Trump. And it's always held him back from his better days, talking about what he wanted to do for the American people.
I think a lot of Republicans are hoping that now this is out of his system, right? That now he can turn the page from the 2020 election. He can move forward. This is his, he's used all his power to put it into the book. And so now let's see if he can move on to other things.
HUNT: Jonah, I want to give you the last word.
GOLDBERG: Yeah, look, Brad, I love you, man.
TODD: Uh-oh! [laughter]
GOLDBERG: This eternal dream, this Lucy and the football eternal dream, this waiting for Godot-like desire to see Trump pivot to be a responsible, you know, today he's now president of everybody moment. It hasn't happened. I don't think it's going to happen.
This is an Aesopian thing. His nature is his nature. And he will, he craves... He would much rather positive attention than negative attention. But he'll take negative attention over no attention any day. So he will create many, many, many more moments that create bowel-stewing panic for Republican candidates trying to figure out what to say.
TODD: I'm an American optimist.
GOLDBERG: Bless your heart.
