As Monty Python might say, “And now for something completely different.” On Monday’s edition of her PBS show that originally airs on CNN International, Christiane Amanpour welcomed Babygirl director Halina Reijn to discuss the film and its place in society. As Reijn tried to claim that discussions of the difference between male and female orgasms and post-menopausal sexuality are the next stage of feminism akin to winning the right to vote, Amanpour used it and other works surrounding extra-marital affairs to promote older women “claiming their sexuality.”
Babygirl is a movie that gives itself the tagline “A high-powered CEO puts her career and family on the line when she begins a torrid affair with her much-younger intern.” During both the interview with Amanpour and the movie itself, Reijn portrays the power dynamics of that as male-dominated.
Later, Amanpour asked, “Halina, talk about the bigger picture. Because frankly, there's a lot of reporting, of storytelling in documentary, in real-life, as well as in the world of culture about younger women claiming—sorry, older women claiming their personhood, claiming their sexuality, even post-menopausal women. Look at Miranda July's recent book, On All Fours, and a lot of the, frankly, parts that Nicole Kidman has played over the last couple of years. What's going on, in your view, in society around women of a certain age?”
On All Fours is also about an older woman who has an affair. Wikipedia summarizes it like this: “All Fours is a 2024 novel by Miranda July. The novel follows a 45-year-old perimenopausal woman who, after having an extramarital affair during a road trip, has a sexual awakening. The narrator begins a sexually charged relationship with Davey, a married man, and then a sexual relationship with Audra, an ex lover of Davey's. She tells her husband and they decide to stay together and each have separate lovers.”
What is it with Christiane Amanpour and tying affairs to “older women claiming their personhood, claiming their sexuality”?
For her part, Reijn replied, “Look, I think we are still exploring each other and ourselves. We have such a long road to go. We just basically got the right to vote. In 1987, we still had to take a male guardian to a bank in order to get a business loan, you know. So, what does that mean for feminism? We have no idea who we are yet. So, I'm so grateful that finally we're getting a little more space.”
She continued, “And if you look at the scientific facts about the orgasm gap, it is very, very sad. It takes a woman, you know, on average 18 minutes to [bleep] at the hands of a man. That's a long time. A lot of women struggle with that. Some women don't even know how to have an orgasm with a man, and we are not talking about these subjects.”
The idea that society is squeamish about sex is rather silly, but Reijn also added, “And looking around me right now, seeing Miranda July telling stories about this, older women embracing menopause, talking about all these taboo subjects that still—you know, it is in a way incredible that they are still taboo, but also looking at Demi Moore, Pamela Anderson, all these actresses that are really in a moment right now, having a moment right now, I think it's amazing. And I hope—you know, again, I still think we have a long way to go. We're not there yet, unfortunately.”
Are movies and books about affairs really necessary to have that conversation? Does taxpayer-funded media need to promote them? No and no.
Here is a transcript for the January 13 show:
PBS Amanpour and Company
1/13/2025
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR: And, Halina, talk about the bigger picture. Because frankly, there's a lot of reporting, of storytelling in documentary, in real-life, as well as in the world of culture about younger women claim — sorry, older women claiming their personhood, claiming their sexuality, even post-menopausal women.
HALINA REIJN: Yes.
AMANPOUR: Look at Miranda July's recent book, On All Fours, and a lot of the, frankly, parts that Nicole Kidman has played over the last couple of years. What's going on, in your view, in society around women of a certain age?
REIJN: Look, I think we are still exploring each other and ourselves. We have such a long road to go. We just basically got the right to vote. In 1987, we still had to take a male guardian to a bank in order to get a business loan, you know. So, what does that mean for feminism? We have no idea who we are yet. So, I'm so grateful that finally we're getting a little more space.
And if you look at the scientific facts about the orgasm gap, it is very, very sad. It takes a woman, you know, on average 18 minutes to [bleep] at the hands of a man. That's a long time. A lot of women struggle with that. Some women don't even know how to have an orgasm with a man, and we are not talking about these subjects.
And looking around me right now, seeing Miranda July telling stories about this, older women embracing menopause, talking about all these taboo subjects that still — you know, it is in a way incredible that they are still taboo, but also looking at Demi Moore, Pamela Anderson, all these actresses that are really in a moment right now, having a moment right now, I think it's amazing. And I hope — you know, again, I still think we have a long way to go. We're not there yet, unfortunately.
