On Thursday night, PBS Amanpour and Company guest host Bianna Golodryga welcomed President and CEO of Planned Parenthood Great Planes Emily Wales to blame pro-lifers for their own falsehoods about various states’ new pro-life laws.
Wales immediately followed a Texas woman who was on to share her story of denied care for a miscarriage. But instead of blaming the doctor for not being able to read, Golodryga simply asked her, “How do you respond to that?”
After describing the story as “devastating,” Wales took aim at other states, “You know, before we lost access to care in Oklahoma. We were actually providing care to many, many people from Texas who are coming across state lines because Texas had a six-week abortion ban in effect for months before Roe fell. And we heard from patients again and again who said, ‘I talked to my provider who said they would love for me to get care locally, but they are scared, or they don't understand the law, and I had to cross state lines.’”
Wales also alleged this is true of women in Missouri and Arkansas, which led Golodryga to claim:
And you can understand how emotionally scarring it is for these families and these women to come forward, like Marlena. You know, we've been talking about, sort of, the unintended consequences of what happens when Roe was overturned. And this has to deal with women wanting to go or having to go to their doctors for a DNC while they're miscarrying or ectopic pregnancies. This opens the door to so many secondary issues that come to the forefront in light of this new ruling. Talk about what you're seeing on the ground there, and the numbers behind these incidents, again, of unintended consequences stemming from this ruling.
Oklahoma’s law says in plain, simple English that the a procedure is not an abortion if done to “remove a dead unborn child caused by spontaneous abortion”—in other words, a miscarriage— or to “remove an ectopic pregnancy.” Arkansas has the exact same language, while Missouri’s definition of an abortion cannot be honestly be interpreted to mean miscarriages and ectopic pregnancies.
Still, Wales insisted confusion remains, causing Golodryga to ask, “Can I get you to respond to what the president of Texas Right to Life said about this issue? And he said ‘I have seen reports of doctors being confused. But that is a failure of our medical associations to provide clear guidance.’”
Before actually getting to Wales’s response, Golodryga blamed the lawmakers, as if explicitly saying treatments for miscarriages and ectopic pregnancies are not abortions wasn’t clear enough, “What is your reaction to that sort of, you know, not pitting the blame on the legislators who are writing these laws, but on the doctors who are really there, you know, providing these services and clearly, not knowing exactly what they can and can't do legally?”
Wales was happy to blame the lawmakers, charging them with making laws about things they do not understand and that insisting the fears “are real.” The fears may be real, but it isn’t the fault of the laws.
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Here is a transcript for the July 21 show:
PBS Amanpour and Company
7/21/2022
11:10 PM ET
BIANNA GOLODRYGA: So, listening to that is Emily Wales, president and CEO of Planned Parenthood Great Planes which provides reproductive health care to many across Arkansas, Kansas, Missouri, and Oklahoma. Thank you so much for joining us. Let me first get you to react to what you just heard there from Marlena. It was so hard to even say goodbye to her seeing how emotional she was at the end. This isn't the first time that she's come forward and told her story. She felt like it was important that the people hear the impact that these new laws have on women like her. How do you respond to that?
EMILY WALES: Absolutely. Hearing that story, it's devastating. And it should never be true in a modern society that you have patients who absolutely can get safe care, and are turned away because of fears of liability, or now, felony convictions in some of the states.
You know, before we lost access to care in Oklahoma. We were actually providing care to many, many people from Texas who are coming across state lines because Texas had a six-week abortion ban in effect for months before Roe fell. And we heard from patients again and again who said, “I talked to my provider who said they would love for me to get care locally, but they are scared, or they don't understand the law, and I had to cross state lines.”
And now what we're seeing, of course, is that crisis is spreading. Because now, Oklahomans have no local access to care. People in Arkansas and Missouri, they are all having to leave the state if they can get care. And having a patient who is brave enough to share just how traumatic it is, is really remarkable, because people are dealing with this every single day.
GOLODRYGA: And you can understand how emotionally scarring it is for these families and these women to come forward, like Marlena. You know, we've been talking about, sort of, the unintended consequences of what happens when Roe was overturned. And this has to deal with women wanting to go or having to go to their doctors for a DNC while they're miscarrying or ectopic pregnancies. This opens the door to so many secondary issues that come to the forefront in light of this new ruling.
Talk about what you're seeing on the ground there, and the numbers behind these incidents, again, of unintended consequences stemming from this ruling.
WALES: The amount of confusion in the states we serve is incredibly high. Every single day we're hearing from patients who either haven't realized that abortion is totally inaccessible in the states where they live now. And they're still calling and saying, can I get into Little Rock? Can I come to Oklahoma City? And we have to explain, no, you don't have rights you had a month ago. You're going to have to leave the state.
But we've also got situations, like Marlena's, happening at the local level where we're hearing from partner organizations or providers asking us whether we think care is legal, or how likely it is that they'll be arrested for providing critical care. You know, one of the hospital systems in the Kansas City area briefly stopped providing emergency contraception because they didn't know for sure if it violated the state's trigger ban that took effect right after Roe fell. And we have advocated and explained contraception is legal, but people are scared and that's understandable.
GOLODRYGA: Well, it's understandable because it led to the House now having to just, moments ago, codify to protect contraception rights for -- contraceptive rights for Americans here because of these questions and confusion that you say abounds now following this new ruling.
Can I get you to respond to what the president of Texas Right to Life said about this issue? And he said “I have seen reports of doctors being confused. But that is a failure of our medical associations to provide clear guidance.”What is your reaction to that sort of, you know, not pitting the blame on the legislators who are writing these laws, but on the doctors who are really there, you know, providing these services and clearly, not knowing exactly what they can and can't do legally?
WALES: The problem, of course, is that legislators are trying to regulate an area where they don't have expertise. We've seen it in Missouri where legislators attempted to ban certain types of contraception from the Medicaid program previously because they don't understand how it works. And at the end of the day, the fear these providers have is very real and very understandable.If you are caught between, I have a patient here who needs critical care, but I'm supposed to go look at a statute and determine whether it legally complies, or if I'm wrong, I could be put in prison and face a felony conviction. I understand why providers are seeking guidance and clarification. The health care system is designed to regulate itself. But government has interfered directly between a patient and their provider. And that's why we have this problem. Not because a provider fears, those are real.
