On Tuesday’s Countdown show, MSNBC host Keith Olbermann seized on a portion of Sarah Palin’s daughter Bristol’s Monday interview from FNC’s On the Record with Greta van Susteren to portray the 18-year-old as having expressed a pro-choice view on abortion, even though Bristol Palin did not clearly state her general view on the legality of abortion. During one of the show’s before-commercial plugs, Olbermann trumpeted: "While head-in-the-sand social conservatives are pushing fairy tales [abstinence] over sound policy, life happens. As for a woman`s right to choose, it is implicitly accepted in Bristol Palin`s comments, despite her mother`s anti-choice position."
Before interviewing Laura Flanders of GritTV.org, Olbermann introduced the segment: "There is a whistle blower in the house of hypocrisy that is Governor Sarah Palin: her daughter, Bristol. In our third story on the Countdown, she is now speaking out about being a teenaged mother, and she says that abstinence is not "realistic" (PRONOUNCED WITH EMPHASIS), and that having her baby was her own "choice" (PRONOUNCED WITH EMPHASIS), and that her mother`s view on that, quote, "doesn`t matter" (PRONOUNCED WITH EMPHASIS). At one point, as he posed a question to Flanders, Olbermann referred to "Bristol Palin using that one word, 'choice,' such a, in that word such a profound repudiation of the social engineers on the right."
But in playing clips from the interview, the Countdown host edited out some of Bristol Palin's words which may suggest an alternative meaning to Olbermann’s interpretation.
One portion of Bristol’s comments on her decision to give birth was clearly meant to refute accusations in the media that her pro-life mother had forced her to give birth or that she decided to give birth just to please her pro-life mother. In another portion, it is less clear whether she meant to imply a general opinion on her part that she should be legally allowed to decide whether to have an abortion instead of her parents, or whether she was simply stressing that even if her mother had been pro-choice, she still would have made the same "choice" to give birth to her child. But Olbermann assumed Bristol’s words to be a general expression of pro-choice sentiment and therefore an opportunity for him to embarrass Governor Palin.
When Bristol remarked that it "doesn’t matter what my mom’s views are on it, it was my decision," she had started her sentence with the words "And would have," before she changed the sentence, possibly suggesting that she started to say something to the extent that "I would have made the same choice to give birth even without the pressure of my mother being pro-life." Alaska law notably does not require minors to get parental consent before having an abortion.
Below is a transcript of the relevant exchange between Bristol Palin and van Susteren, with the portions Olbermann played on his show in bold:
VAN SUSTEREN, AFTER ASKING ABOUT THE TABLOIDS: What didn't anybody get? What didn't people understand?
BRISTOL: That, there's a lot of things. They thought that, like, my mom was going to make me have the baby, and it was my choice to have the baby. And it's just, that kind of stuff just bothered me.
VAN SUSTEREN: And in terms of your mother making you have the baby, I mean, the whole issue of, I guess, the right, the right to life and choice and things like that.
BRISTOL: Yeah, yeah.
VAN SUSTEREN: But this is your issue. This is your decision.
BRISTOL: Yeah. And would have, doesn't matter what my mom's views are on it. It was my decision, and I wish people would realize that, too.
For the Countdown show's opening teaser, MSNBC also paired a clip of Bristol saying that abstinence was "not realistic," followed by a clip of Sarah Palin saying "Yeah, abstinence, you know, don’t get pregnant," making it sound as if Governor Palin were agreeing with her daughter’s doubts about teaching abstinence, when in reality the two comments were made in different parts of the interview.
The teaser ran:
KEITH OLBERMANN: Two out of two Palin mothers agree abstinence-only programs don’t work.
BRISTOL PALIN: Everyone should be abstinent, whatever, but it’s not realistic at all.
SARAH PALIN: Yeah, abstinence, you know, don’t get pregnant.
But Governor Palin’s words came while van Susteren was discussing how, once you already have a baby whom you love and cherish, it can seem inappropriate to talk about how you could have prevented your baby’s conception, since it could seem like an implication that conceiving the baby you now love was a bad thing. Governor Palin seemed to be agreeing that talking about abstinence after the fact could be the wrong time.
Below is the relevant exchange between van Susteren and Governor Palin, with the words Olbermann showed on his Countdown show highlighted in bold:
GRETA VAN SUSTEREN: So it's not just an issue of abstinence. That's one issue. But once we get beyond that, you know, because when you have the discussion of abstinence, it's almost, I always sort of feel badly because there's a wonderful child here and talking abstinence sounds, I mean, it sounds-
SARAH PALIN: It sounds naive.
VAN SUSTEREN: Well, it doesn't even, it doesn't even sound naive, but it doesn't sound very nice because this is a wonderful young boy.
SARAH PALIN: Yeah, yeah.
VAN SUSTEREN: You know, I mean, and so I hate to have that topic-
SARAH PALIN: I hear you.
VAN SUSTEREN: You know, the bigger topic is, okay, now the situation, the bigger question is, like, now, you know, how to make it go right.
SARAH PALIN: Exactly. Exactly. So you get behind that, that ideal of, yeah, abstinence, you know, hey, don't get pregnant. Well, get beyond that when it happens, and then you deal with it. Life happens. Life happens and you deal with it, and Bristol's dealing with it wonderfully.
During Olbermann's interview with Laura Flanders of GritTV.org, referring to a portion of the Bristol Palin interview in which she jokingly said that having to tell her parents about her pregnancy was "worse than labor," Flanders made an over-the-top claim that Bristol’s words were evidence of how bad a President that Sarah Palin would be. Inspiring laughter from Olbermann, Flanders cracked: "I thought the scariest thing was the part where Bristol Palin said that talking with her mother was worse than labor. I mean, I guess Katie Couric found that out, but can any of us imagine what a Palin presidency would be like, like a Nadya Suleman labor, what?"
And, not realizing the irony that the legality of abortion has cost the lives of millions of unborn babies, Flanders remarked that unwanted pregnancies are "costing lives," in the sense that young women are becoming mothers instead of enjoying being single. Flanders: "This level of hypocrisy has been costing lives. I think Bristol Palin quite kind of sweetly sort of admitted that she feels she’s lost ten years of her life here. That matters. And it matters not only when it`s a Palin child, but anybody`s child out there." Flanders had earlier commented that "I think it’s time that people like Bristol Palin, you know, got a chance to say [abstinence] doesn`t work, I’ve lost 10 years of my life, I want my house, my education, my life back."
In one notable portion of Bristol’s interview ignored by Olbermann and Flanders, the 18-year-old expressed the happiness she feels about being a mother. Asked by van Susteren if giving birth was a "good" event, Bristol responded: "Yes, it is. Very good. I like being a mom. I love it. Just, like, seeing him smile and stuff. It just, it's awesome." She soon added: "It is very challenging, but it's so rewarding."
Below is a complete transcript of the segment between Olbermann and Flanders from the Tuesday, February 17, Countdown show on MSNBC, followed by a transcript of relevant portions of the Bristol Palin interview from the Monday, February 16, On the Record on FNC:
#From the February 17 Countdown:
KEITH OLBERMANN, IN OPENING TEASER: Two out of two Palin mothers agree abstinence-only programs don’t work.
BRISTOL PALIN: Everyone should be abstinent, whatever, but it’s not realistic at all.
SARAH PALIN: Yeah, abstinence, you know, don’t get pregnant.
...
OLBERMANN, DURING COMMERCIAL BREAK AT 8:16 P.M.: Sarah Palin, advocate of abstinence-only sex ed, suddenly whistling a revised tune after her daughter starts pointing out the flaws and uses a words like "choice."
...
OLBERMANN, BEFORE COMMERCIAL BREAK AT 8:29 P.M.: Governor Palin certainly has a different outlook on abstinence-only sex ed, kind of taught the reality of the world by her own daughter.
...
OLBERMANN: There is a whistle blower in the house of hypocrisy that is Governor Sarah Palin: her daughter, Bristol. In our third story on the Countdown, she is now speaking out about being a teenaged mother, and she says that abstinence is not "realistic" (SAID WITH EMPHASIS), and that having her baby was her own "choice" (SAID WITH EMPHASIS), and that her mother`s view on that, quote, "doesn`t matter" (SAID WITH EMPHASIS). In fact, Bristol Palin says she would love to be an advocate. Quoting her, "I hope that people learn from my story and just like prevent teen pregnancy, I guess." In that same interview, airing on Fox News Channel`s On the Record:
GRETA VAN SUSTEREN: I don`t want to pry too personally, but, I mean, obviously, contraception is an issue here. Is that something that you were just lazy about or not interested in or do you have a philosophical or religious opposition to it?
BRISTOL PALIN: No. I don`t want to get into details about that, but I think abstinence is like, like the, I don`t know how to put it, like, the main, everyone should be abstinent or whatever, but it’s not realistic at all.
OLBERMANN: Yes, while head-in-the-sand social conservatives are pushing fairy tales over sound policy, life happens. As for a woman`s right to choose, it is implicitly accepted in Bristol Palin`s comments, despite her mother`s anti-choice position.
BRISTOL PALIN CLIP #1: They thought that, like, my mom was going to make me have the baby. And it was my choice to have the baby.
BRISTOL PALIN CLIP #2: -doesn`t matter what my mom`s views are on it. It was my decision, and I wish people would realize that, too.
OLBERMANN: Let`s call in the host of GritTV.org, Laura Flanders. Thanks for your time tonight.
LAURA FLANDERS, GRITTV.ORG: Oh, glad to be with you.
OLBERMANN: Is this not the mirror image of the conservative`s joke about a reality that a liberal is just a conservative who hasn`t been mugged yet?
FLANDERS: Well, I mean, I think there’s a name for people who only teach their kids about abstinence and that`s "grandparents." And Sarah Palin’s finding that out. I mean, the scariest thing in that conversation with Greta Van Susteren was, well, I thought the scariest thing was the part where Bristol Palin said that talking with her mother was worse than labor. I mean, I guess Katie Couric [OLBERMANN CAN BE HEARD LAUGHING] found that out, but can any of us imagine what a Palin presidency would be like, like a Nadya Suleman labor, what?
OLBERMANN: So what happens though? Despite the governor`s signal that some of this seemed to be getting through to her, what happens to the issue of the abstinence-only program, when next it comes up in Sarah Palin`s next campaign?
FLANDERS: Well, I don`t think that not getting it has ever been a real obstacle for Sarah Palin. But I certainly think that if this abstinence-only policy comes up, people will be, look, one thing I hope that it’s Bristol Palin who’s raising the question and saying, you know, "When are you going to start abstaining from lying to kids?" But the next thing, you know, like, Anchorage schools have been abiding by this abstinence-only non-education program. Babies like Tripp are what we’ve got to show for it. This isn`t just stuff that doesn`t work and misleads kids. It’s been expensive. We’ve been spending $176 million a year on this stuff. And I think it’s time that people like Bristol Palin, you know, got a chance to say it doesn`t work, I’ve lost 10 years of my life, I want my house, my education, my life back.
OLBERMANN: With Bristol Palin using that one word, "choice," such a, in that word such a profound repudiation of the social engineers on the right, do we think that her mother gets the dichotomy between her public positions on all these issues and the people she’s pandering to and the real life that she’s experiencing with her own daughter and her grandchild?
FLANDERS: Well, again, you got that "getting it" question, but, Keith, I mean, I hope that every time people hear a Palin talk about choice, there`s some little Sarah Palin for President doll that loses its wings because, I mean, the choice that they’re so proud of Bristol having exercised is exactly the kind of choice that her mom would deny to other folks. I mean, this is a person, Sarah Palin, who believes in criminalizing abortion, no matter what, no exceptions, except for the health or the life, rather, of the mother, the woman or the girl. No exceptions for the incested kid, no exceptions for the survivor of rape. This stuff is sick and Bristol knows it.
OLBERMANN: Yeah, we love choice as long as you make the choice that we love.
FLANDERS: That`s right. That`s like we like small government except when it comes to your personal life. And we do mean your personal life.
OLBERMANN: Or the $267 million bailout money that`s going to the wife`s bank.
FLANDERS: You mean the-
OLBERMANN: Mr. Cantor. [CONGRESSMAN ERIC CANTOR]
FLANDERS: Yeah, well, there’s that and there’s the, you know, all of these deficit hawks who are against the bailout. I guess you could say that they are bailout fans who just haven`t gone bankrupt yet.
OLBERMANN: All right, back to this point and sort of the closing out of it. The conservatives loved and still love former Vice President Cheney, but they did not love his belief that gay marriage should be left up to the states. Obviously, he held that position, I think it’s safe to assume, in part because he has a daughter who is gay. Is there a, is there a theme here that there’s a willingness to dictate to the rest of us on these issues? But if it applies personally to them, they get a pass because they are conservatives and, therefore, they deserve a pass?
FLANDERS: Yeah, I think there’s that grand old hypocrisy party phenomenon playing out here. It’s one rule for us and one rule for everybody else. You see it when it comes to their foreign policy and here you see it when it comes to the personal stuff. I mean, again, we could laugh about it all we like, but this level of hypocrisy has been costing lives. I think Bristol Palin quite kind of sweetly sort of admitted that she feels she’s lost ten years of her life here. That matters. And it matters not only when it`s a Palin child, but anybody`s child out there. We’ve got to get smarter about this stuff.
OLBERMANN: Laura Flanders, host of GritTV.org, thanks for your time tonight.
FLANDERS: Glad to be here, Keith.
#From the February 16 On the Record on FNC:
GRETA VAN SUSTEREN: Is this what you expected?
BRISTOL: I don't know if it's what I expected, but it's just a lot different.
VAN SUSTEREN: You had no hint of the, sort of the demands of being a new mother.
BRISTOL: Well, it's not just the baby that's hard. It's just, like, I'm not living for myself anymore. It's, like, for another person, so that's different.
VAN SUSTEREN: If you and I were talking a year ago and I said, "What do you think's going to happen in your life?" what do you think you would have told me?
BRISTOL: I honestly have no idea because I never would have thought I would have been a mom, and I never would have thought my mom was going to be chosen for Vice President.
VAN SUSTEREN: So this is, obviously, a huge, unexpected event.
BRISTOL: Yeah, definitely.
VAN SUSTEREN: Is it good?
BRISTOL: Yes, it is. Very good. I like being a mom. I love it.
VAN SUSTEREN: Why?
BRISTOL: Just, like, seeing him smile and stuff. It just, it's awesome.
VAN SUSTEREN: You know, you're young.
BRISTOL: Very young, yeah.
VAN SUSTEREN: And so some people think it's, you know, that for a young person, it's particularly challenging.
BRISTOL: It is very challenging, but it's so rewarding.
VAN SUSTEREN: Take me back to a year ago, when you first discovered you were going to be a mother. You, I imagine you had to tell your parents.
BRISTOL, LAUGHING SLIGHTLY: Yeah, which was, like, harder than labor.
VAN SUSTEREN, LAUGHING SLIGHTLY: Okay, where, when did you tell them?
BRISTOL: Well, we were sitting on the couch, my best friend and Levi, and we had my parents come and sit on the couch, too. And we had my sisters go upstairs. And we just sat them down, and I just, I couldn't even say it. I was just sick to my stomach. And so finally, my best friend just, like, blurted it out. And it was just, like, I don't even remember it because it was just, like, something I don't want to remember.
VAN SUSTEREN: Levi was there, as well?
BRISTOL: Yeah.
VAN SUSTEREN: What was the reaction of your mother and your father?
BRISTOL: They were scared just because I have to, I had to grow up a lot faster than they ever would have imagined.
VAN SUSTEREN: In my family, telling my mother things would draw a different reaction than telling my father things, draw a different reaction. Did they react the same way?
BRISTOL: Yeah, they did. They were just, knew I had a lot of growing up to do.
VAN SUSTEREN: And I imagine they had some guidance for you, or some thought.
BRISTOL: Yeah, they just wanted us to sit down and make a game plan, like, what we were going to do and stuff.
VAN SUSTEREN: Had you told Levi's family?
BRISTOL: No, not yet.
VAN SUSTEREN: When did that come about?
BRISTOL: That came about probably, like, the following day.
VAN SUSTEREN: And how did that go over?
BRISTOL: Well, his mom was, she was scared for us, too. Just we needed to sit down and make a game plan. But she was excited. We were all excited for the baby, of course.
VAN SUSTEREN: I take it this wasn't planned.
BRISTOL: No, not all.
VAN SUSTEREN: Any sort of, I mean, and I realize, you know, what joy a child brings to a family. But was there any sort of thinking that maybe, did you have any sort of sense about, I wish that maybe this would happen a year or two from now, rather than now?
BRISTOL: Yeah, of course, I wish it would happened in, like, 10 years so I could have a job and an education and be, like, prepared and have my own house and stuff. But he brings so much joy, it, I don't regret it at all. I just wish it would have happened in 10 years, rather than right now.
VAN SUSTEREN: You know, it always is sort of a difficult thing, you know, when it's a question of youth, and no one ever really knows what to say to a young person in your situation.
BRISTOL: Yes. I don't know. I just, I hope that people learn from my story and just, like, I don't know, prevent teen pregnancy, I guess.
VAN SUSTEREN: What happened at school?
BRISTOL: I was, it was during summer and school had just gotten out, so I just knew that I had to finish up high school and focus on getting an education.
VAN SUSTEREN: You know, you know, we all learned about it in August or so, after -- and the media, I guess, dogged you a little bit.
BRISTOL: Yes.
VAN SUSTEREN: What was your reaction to that?
BRISTOL: I mostly just didn't pay attention to it because my family's strong and it doesn't matter what the, like, what tabloids say or anything like that.
VAN SUSTEREN: Did you read any of the tabloids?
BRISTOL: I've seen some of them, and I think people out there are just evil because they don't know what was going on at all.
VAN SUSTEREN: What didn't anybody get? What didn't people understand?
BRISTOL: That, there's a lot of things. They thought that, like, my mom was going to make me have the baby, and it was my choice to have the baby. And it's just, that kind of stuff just bothered me.
VAN SUSTEREN: And in terms of your mother making you have the baby, I mean, the whole issue of, I guess, the right, the right to life and choice and things like that.
BRISTOL: Yeah, yeah.
VAN SUSTEREN: But this is your issue. This is your decision.
BRISTOL: Yeah. And would have, doesn't matter what my mom's views are on it. It was my decision, and I wish people would realize that, too.
...
VAN SUSTEREN: Do you ever feel like, This is just too much for me, or not?
BRISTOL: There's been times that I've thought that, but it's just, it's a lot of work, but I'm just thankful that he's healthy and he's happy.
VAN SUSTEREN: When you say there's a lot of work, is it just that it's just every couple hours, and it's, like, you've always got to be feeding and watching the child?
BRISTOL: Yes.
VAN SUSTEREN: Is that what you mean by the work?
BRISTOL: Yes. And just you're up all night. And it's not glamorous at all. Like, your whole priorities change after having a baby.
VAN SUSTEREN: Teen pregnancy, what's your thought on that?
BRISTOL: I think everyone should just wait 10 years.
VAN SUSTEREN: That's just, why?
BRISTOL: Just because it's so much easier if you're married and if you have a house and a career and it's just so much easier.
VAN SUSTEREN: What do your parents say about teen pregnancy?
BRISTOL: It's not something to strive for, I guess. It's just, I don't know. I'm not the first person that it's happened to and I'm not going to be the last. But I don't know. I'd love for, to be an advocate to prevent teen pregnancy because it's not, like, a situation that you want to strive for, I guess.
...
VAN SUSTEREN: Does [Levi] have any sort of, does he feel the same way you feel about teen pregnancy and have some sort of, well, maybe a good idea to wait usually, unless things happen?
BRISTOL: Yes. He feels the same way I do. We both just, kids should just wait. It's, I don't know. It's not glamorous at all.
VAN SUSTEREN: I don't want to pry to personally, but I mean, actually, contraception is an issue here. Is that something that you were just lazy about or not interested, or do you have a philosophical or religious opposition to it or-
BRISTOL: No. I don't want to get into detail about that. But I think abstinence is, like, like, the, I don't know how to put it, like, the main, everyone should be abstinent or whatever, but it's not realistic at all.
VAN SUSTEREN: Why?
BRISTOL: Because, I don't want to get into details about this.
VAN SUSTEREN: Well, no, I don't mean personally, just big picture, not, not necessarily about you, but-
BRISTOL: Because it's more and more accepted now.
VAN SUSTEREN: Among your classmates and kids your age?
BRISTOL: Among, yeah, among kids my age.
VAN SUSTEREN: How do you change that?
BRISTOL: To see stories like this and to see other stories of teen moms and just, it's something that's, I don't know, just, you should just wait 10 years and it'd just be so much easier.
[COMMERCIAL BREAK]
...
VAN SUSTEREN: She told me that she had just sort of sprung the interview on you, and this is her idea about talking about the big picture of teen pregnancy.
SARAH PALIN: Yeah, yeah, and I'm proud of her, too, wanting to take on an advocacy role and, you know, just let other girls know that this is, it's not the most ideal situation, but certainly, you make the most of it. And Bristol is a strong and bold young woman, and she is an amazing mom, and this little baby is very lucky to have her as a mama. He's going to be just fine. We're very proud of Bristol.
VAN SUSTEREN: Well, you know, but it's, I mean, you look at this, and it's joy in this family. You know, and some families aren't-
SARAH PALIN: Oh, yes.
VAN SUSTEREN: -you know, some families don't have the broad family support. I mean, she's got the brothers and the sisters and the parents and the grandparents.
SARAH PALIN: We have five generations helping right now. And Bristol, maybe she got to talk to you a little bit about that, that we have a very large network of family, so a lot of support. And Bristol's in, maybe she's a bit of an anomaly in this situation, in that she has a lot of, a lot of support. She has it perhaps easier, if you will, than other young mothers. But many, many, many young parents have been successful in raising their children and have raised healthy, happy contributing members of our society. Bristol will, and Levi, they will be parents like that. We're real proud of them.
VAN SUSTEREN: Nonetheless, a surprise to you and the "first dude."
SARAH PALIN: Yes! Yes!
VAN SUSTEREN: You're grandparents at an early, at a young age yourselves.
SARAH PALIN: I'm still getting used to having a, you know, my last child, Trig, much less, you know, knowing that we would have another little bundle of joy in our midst. So yeah, it was a surprise. It was a shock.
VAN SUSTEREN: Did you give her hell or were you, at first? I mean, what-
SARAH PALIN: Yeah, I kind of did. I mean, I was-
BRISTOL: We were all surprised.
SARAH PALIN: We were all surprised. Let me put it this way. And this is, I think Bristol's kind of an example of, truly, it can happen to anybody. Bristol, great athlete, great student, great aspirations that she had for herself, plans that didn't include a baby, of course, but it did happen to her and now again, less than ideal circumstances, but we make the most of it. She, I think, of all her friends even, can handle it perhaps better than some of her friends would have handled it. But still an absolute shock that it happened.
VAN SUSTEREN: Isn't sort of the bigger story and the bigger issue is that how important it is for families to pitch in?
SARAH PALIN: Oh, yeah, yeah.
VAN SUSTEREN: I mean, isn't it, I mean, like, you know, you know, I mean, this is obviously a wonderful child and, you know, and bring great joy to your family, but the bigger thing is, like, if all families sort of pitched in.
SARAH PALIN: Yeah.
VAN SUSTEREN: That's, you know, because if you didn't pitch in, this would be a different story.
SARAH PALIN: It would be a different story. It would be some sad and some dire circumstances, I think, if the family doesn't all really kind of circle the wagons and help one another at a time like this. This is what family is for, also, to pitch in. And I'm proud of Bristol for accepting the help, too, that's being offered her by her grandmother, her great-grandma, her great-great-grandma, and aunts and cousins and, we're very thankful to be in the situation that we are with so much help. I don't know how other families do it, if they kind of assume that the young parents are going to make it on their own or assume that government will take care of the young parent and that child. That's not government's role. But this is a role for families to pitch in and help.
VAN SUSTEREN: So it's not just an issue of abstinence. That's one issue. But once we get beyond that, you know, because when you have the discussion of abstinence, it's almost, I always sort of feel badly because there's a wonderful child here and talking abstinence sounds, I mean, it sounds-
SARAH PALIN: It sounds naive.
VAN SUSTEREN: Well, it doesn't even, it doesn't even sound naive, but it doesn't sound very nice because this is a wonderful young boy.
SARAH PALIN: Yeah, yeah.
VAN SUSTEREN: You know, I mean, and so I hate to have that topic-
SARAH PALIN: I hear you.
VAN SUSTEREN: You know, the bigger topic is, okay, now the situation, the bigger question is, like, now, you know, how to make it go right.
SARAH PALIN: Exactly. Exactly. So you get behind that, that ideal of, yeah, abstinence, you know, hey, don't get pregnant. Well, get beyond that when it happens, and then you deal with it. Life happens. Life happens and you deal with it, and Bristol's dealing with it wonderfully.
