After a Monday ReidOut featuring her controversial comment about Muslims and a Tuesday riddled with technical difficulties, MSNBC host Joy Reid addressed on Wednesday’s show what some deemed a clear-cut example of Islamophobia. But as usual for Reid, the bitter, vile pundit refused to apologize and accept responsibility.
Reid instead chose to put the onus on the American people, President Trump, and even the news media for refusing to put sufficient focus on the terroristic threat that wide swaths of Christianity and the right pose to a safe America.
As far as she was concerned, Reid only conceded her claim that Trump supporters were being “radicalized” in the way Muslims were, was “not exactly the most artful” point.
“[W]hat does the radicalization of…Muslim extremists, why does that get so much more attention than the radicalization of white domestic terrorists like the Boogaloo Boys? My next guests will help us unpack that duel reality,” Reid said in a tease.
Reid returned after a break for what would be almost 16 minutes of discussion and began with Reid complaining about Islamophobia for about four minutes before she brought up the whole reason why she was having the segment. Here were some highlights of her lead-in (click “expand”):
For decades, America's Muslim community has endured blanket portrayals that focus on one thing, just one thing. Not their families or individual achievements or even anything about Islam. Nope! Just one thing: terrorism. Particularly after 9/11, profiling became a near American obsession for anybody brown God forbid with a beard or head scarf, whether they were Muslim or not, traveling through an airport could be hell. Physical attacks on not just Muslims but also Sikhs, who are not Muslim, increased.
(….)
To be clear, the vast majority of the more than one billion Muslims on the planet, and the millions in this country are decidedly unradical. Everyday people just living their lives when they're not getting profiled by the NYPD or banned by the Trump administration.It's the misportrayal that is the problem, not the people….But when white Christians are radicalized, we don't react the same way. When is the last time Donald Trump or anyone in his campaign was asked if they are willing to condemn the boogaloo boys by name? Does Bill Barr ever get asked about them?
I mean, one of them literally allegedly killed a federal agent in Oakland using a Black Lives Matter rally as cover. Experts, including the FBI, have been warning for years about the radical right-wing, and white nationalist groups seeking to radicalize white Americans and posing a threat of domestic terrorism, including using black lives matter rallies as both a scare tactic and as physical cover to wreak mayhem. And rather than stand up to that threat, the President of the United States is accelerating it. We are living in a time when the President is the fire starter. He is helping to radicalize his own followers, to try to help his re-election.
(….)
We have never had a president do that and he's getting help from his party and media outlets who are literally celebrating vigilantism and turning an alleged killer into their version of a hero. If Trump was a Muslim leader, not the leader of the Christian right, how would we in the media describe what he's doing?
Should terrorism across the spectrum be denounced? Absolutely. Whether it’s Antifa or the Boogaloo Boys, it should all be denounced. But for Reid, she wants you to think the issue lies almost exclusive with the right.
After that bout of whataboutism, Reid addressed her own rhetoric by stating that she wondered on Monday how else one could describe what Trump’s allegedly doing in priming millions to commit and/or support acts of terror and it spawned “a lot of good conversation, particularly online.”
Reid took a shot at those criticizing her, condemning “some” of those talking about the Monday shindig as having “not” engaged “in good faith.”
Before bringing on Newsweek’s Naveed Jamali and Institute for Social Policy and Understanding’s Dalia Mogahed to praise her as a true friend of Muslims, Reid added:
Some of the conversation reflected the genuine feelings of people who have been subjected to the kind of stereotyping that I just described and who take matters like this to heart because of it and we should all be sensitive to that, and I certainly should have been sensitive to that.
Having been on-set on Monday, Reid called on Jamali first and asked him to help “contextualize” their discussion since what she had originally said was “not exactly the most artful way of asking that question.”
Jamali spoke to his military service following 9/11 and a desire to serve his country as a way of showing his fellow Americans that Muslims are patriotic and not to be seen as terrorists. But after that important and necessary reminder, he shifted to Reid’s comments and defended her by attacking the President.
Before asking Mogahed to bail her out, Reid again appeared to admit that what she said on Monday didn’t “work,” but never apologized (click “expand”):
REID: Well, Dalia and I want to let you in this and let you respond however you want to respond as well. I mean, you know, and by the way, for the audience, that was not what the entire segment was about. The segment was actually about Donald Trump radicalizing people and his rhetoric and you can go all the way back to, if you talk about Muslims, him lying about saying, you know, I know that, you know, Muslims were celebrating 9/11. I mean, he's done a lot of it. But in that particular instance it was about his relationship to the far, far, far right that he is not discouraging, we'll put it that way. But just to let people know that was not the entire subject of the piece because this would have been the panel and not that panel that we had yesterday that was about a different thing. But it did come up and Dalia, you know, I threw that question to Naveed. It is something he and I have talked about and been angry about for a long time. But I guess, you know, the way that I framed it obviously did not work, so I want you to respond to me how that was taken and how that can really be brought up and do you think it even is a fair analogy to make or a fair question to be asked?
MOGAHED: Well, thank you so much, Joy. I want to first say that I have been on your show before and ---
REID: Yes.
MOGAHED: --- you have always given Muslim voices a fair shake. You --- you are a fair reporter. You give us air time to make our case. You let us speak for ourselves and you're fair to us when we are on your show, so I think that that's an important point to make. The way that I heard your statement was intended to make the analogy, which is a fair one, between radicalization of Muslim extremists and the radicalization of young, white men in this country. The way that it came --- the way that it landed and the way that it was heard by some people, many people, in fact, was unintentionally saying that Muslims were inherently violent or that Muslim --- the way in which Muslims act is violent and though that was not your intention, it is important to correct that notion for your millions of viewers and that's why I think it's so important to have this conversation[.]
Reid then rehashed what’s become a fact-free cri de coeur in insisting that Black Lives Matter groups and sympathizers are not to blame for any of the violence seen this summer across American cities, but it’s right-wing groups that have been the troublemakers.
And in a truly farcical claim, she insisted that the two men killed in Kenosha were merely “innocent men” out in the streets when Kyle Rittenhouse allegedly shot them. She described Anthony Huber as merely “a young skateboarder” (instead of a domestic abuser) and Joseph Rosenbaum as only “a dad” when, in reality, he was a convicted sex offender.
Reid’s non-apology was brought to you by advertisers such as ADT, Ancestry, and LegalZoom. Follow the links to the MRC’s Conservatives Fight Back page.
To see the relevant MSNBC transcript from September 2, click “expand.”
MSNBC’s The ReidOut
September 2, 2020
7:40 p.m. Eastern [TEASE]JOY REID: Up next, what does the radicalization of --- thank you --- of Muslim extremists, why does that get so much more attention than the radicalization of white domestic terrorists like the Boogaloo Boys? My next guests will help us unpack that duel reality. We'll be right back.
(….)
7:44 p.m. Eastern
REID: For decades, America's Muslim community has endured blanket portrayals that focus on one thing, just one thing. Not their families or individual achievements or even anything about Islam. Nope! Just one thing: terrorism. Particularly after 9/11, profiling became a near American obsession for anybody brown God forbid with a beard or head scarf, whether they were Muslim or not, traveling through an airport could be hell. Physical attacks on not just Muslims but also Sikhs, who are not Muslim, increased. And TV shows about Muslims like Homeland and 24: Legacy pounded the terrorism theme 24/7.
UNIDENTIFED CHARACTER [on Showtime’s Homeland]: I'm a soldier.
“CLARE DANES” [on Showtime’s Homeland]: You're a terrorist.
“REBECCA INGRAM” [on Fox’s 24: Legacy]: I would like to acknowledge the many dedicated people at CTU, and the six Army rangers who risked their lives to stop Ben Khaled from carrying out the attack on this country.
REID: Average American Muslims have, for two decades, been pressed to answer for every act of terrorism committed by anyone, anywhere in the world, who claimed to be a Muslim. They're constantly asked, are you going to condemn terrorism, are you, are you? And unfortunately, that has too often been true of the media. According to a 2018 Institute for Social Policy and Understanding study, someone perceived to be Muslim, accused of a terrorism plot will receive 770 percent of the media coverage as somebody not perceived to be Muslim. To be clear, the vast majority of the more than one billion Muslims on the planet, and the millions in this country are decidedly unradical. Everyday people just living their lives when they're not getting profiled by the NYPD or banned by the Trump administration.It's the misportrayal that is the problem, not the people. And we're all too quick to call out those who seek to radicalize the small number of mostly young men who are vulnerable to be co-opted by violent people. There have been lengthy treatments of this all over cable news for years. But when white Christians are radicalized, we don't react the same way. When is the last time Donald Trump or anyone in his campaign was asked if they are willing to condemn the boogaloo boys by name? Does Bill Barr ever get asked about them? I mean, one of them literally allegedly killed a federal agent in Oakland using a Black Lives Matter rally as cover. Experts, including the FBI, have been warning for years about the radical right-wing, and white nationalist groups seeking to radicalize white Americans and posing a threat of domestic terrorism, including using black lives matter rallies as both a scare tactic and as physical cover to wreak mayhem. And rather than stand up to that threat, the President of the United States is accelerating it. We are living in a time when the President is the fire starter. He is helping to radicalize his own followers, to try to help his re-election. The same way that he gleefully encouraged violence during his initial presidential run.
DONALD TRUMP [on 03/01/16]: Oh, get out of here. Get out of here. Look at these people. [SCREEN WIPE] Get out of here. Get out! Out, out, out. [SCREEN WIPE] In the old days, which isn’t so long ago, when we were less politically correct, that kind of stuff wouldn't have happened. Today, we have to be so nice, so nice. [SCREEN WIPE] [on 06/28/20] They're not protesters. Those aren't -- those are anarchists. They’re agitators.
MARK MCCLOSKEY [on 08/24/20]: Anarchy and chaos on our streets.
HARRIS FAULKNER: The NYPD is reporting 28 shootings from over the weekend. That’s a 600% increase.
REID: We have never had a president do that and he's getting help from his party and media outlets who are literally celebrating vigilantism and turning an alleged killer into their version of a hero. If Trump was a Muslim leader, not the leader of the Christian right, how would we in the media describe what he's doing? I asked that question on Monday, and there was a lot of conversation, particularly online after the segment aired, some of which was frankly not in good faith. But some of the conversation reflected the genuine feelings of people who have been subjected to the kind of stereotyping that I just described and who take matters like this to heart because of it and we should all be sensitive to that, and I certainly should have been sensitive to that, so let's talk about it now. Joining me now is Naveed Jamali, Newsweek editor at large, and my guest on Monday. And Dalia, director of research at the Institute for Social Policy and Understanding. Thank you both for being here. And Naveed, I'm going to back to you. I’m going to play quickly the section of the interview that was in question.
REID [on 08/31/20]: When leaders let's say in the Muslim world talk a lot of violent talk, and encourage their supporters to be willing to commit violence, including on their own bodies, in order to win against whoever they decide is the enemy, we in the U.S. media describe that as they are radicalizing those people, particularly when they're radicalizing young people. That's how we talk about the way Muslims act. When you see what president trump is doing, is that any different from what we describe as radicalizing people?
REID: Not --- not exactly the most artful way of asking that question, obviously, based on the reaction, but Naveed, can you contextualize it a better way of making that point just from a national security point of view.
NAVEED JAMALI: Let me just tell you what it meant to me and the actual visuals that I had in my mind. You know, I am someone that came of age as in the 9/11 generation. When I think of being a brown man in America, there are two-way points that define what it Americans for me and that is 9/11 and then the Muslim ban. And after 9/11, you know, when you talk about being radicalized, we all know the 19 hijackers, who they were, what they were I felt a very strong urge to counter this, that it wasn't enough to stand up and say something, but I wanted to do something and the best way I thought I could do that is join the military, and that's exactly what I did. I'm not alone. There are plenty of brown and Muslim men and women, whether they joined the military or anything else, wanted to speak out and address this, so to me, what I took that to be is a question of, you know, this double standard that exists when we talk about brown and Muslim people in this country and how we hold us to a monolithic standard. You know, as you said, when there is a terrorist act within our community, we are all expected to apologize, to condemn it, which we do because it’s the right thing to do. And that same standard is not often applied to other communties. It should be a standard that should be applied universally. So, I took what your question --- not just from a national security standpoint --- but I took it as a brown man whose father is Pakistani, whose father is Muslim, and by the way, who watched that segment. And I wanted to answer in that vein that I took it exactly as this idea that we are a country that has a double standard and even someone that can serve and prove his loyalty, be patriotic is then thrown the Muslim ban in his face, just like my --- you know, the fellow members of my community. And that's really that double standard that I think we really have to address. I thought that was what the question was and I think it's an important one to ask.
REID: Well, Dalia and I want to let you in this and let you respond however you want to respond as well. I mean, you know, and by the way, for the audience, that was not what the entire segment was about. The segment was actually about Donald Trump radicalizing people and his rhetoric and you can go all the way back to, if you talk about Muslims, him lying about saying, you know, I know that, you know, Muslims were celebrating 9/11. I mean, he's done a lot of it. But in that particular instance it was about his relationship to the far, far, far right that he is not discouraging, we'll put it that way. But just to let people know that was not the entire subject of the piece because this would have been the panel and not that panel that we had yesterday that was about a different thing. But it did come up and Dalia, you know, I threw that question to Naveed. It is something he and I have talked about and been angry about for a long time. But I guess, you know, the way that I framed it obviously did not work, so I want you to respond to me how that was taken and how that can really be brought up and do you think it even is a fair analogy to make or a fair question to be asked?
DALIA MOGAHED: Well, thank you so much, Joy. I want to first say that I have been on your show before and ---
REID: Yes.
MOGAHED: --- you have always given Muslim voices a fair shake. You --- you are a fair reporter. You give us air time to make our case. You let us speak for ourselves and you're fair to us when we are on your show, so I think that that's an important point to make. The way that I heard your statement was intended to make the analogy, which is a fair one, between radicalization of Muslim extremists and the radicalization of young, white men in this country. The way that it came --- the way that it landed and the way that it was heard by some people, many people, in fact, was unintentionally saying that Muslims were inherently violent or that Muslim --- the way in which Muslims act is violent and though that was not your intention, it is important to correct that notion for your millions of viewers and that's why I think it's so important to have this conversation because what the facts are is that while Muslims receive the vast majority of media coverage when it comes to ideologically-motivated violence, they are by no means the majority of --- they are not the ones that are committing most terrorism in America. The vast majority of terrorists casualties at the hands of terrorism are at the hands of white supremacists and far right extremists in the United States. Most people don't know that. Not only that, but Muslim publics around the world and in the United States are more likely than the general public to actually reject violence against civilians. So, you have this media portrayal on one hand implying and reinforcing the stereotype while the reality on the other hand says the exact opposite.
REID: Yeah. I mean, and I guess this is why it annoys me to see the way that Donald Trump has talked about it because you’re absolutely right. Here is some statistics and this is from a Georgia State University study. Muslims 80 percent, are as likely as the general public, 74 percent --- so more likely to reject violence targeting civilians carried out by an individual or small group. That is just actual facts. Attacks by Muslims perpetrators received on average 357 percent more coverage than other attacks. So, you know, Dahlia it --- it is vexing because when I see the Boogaloo Boys, you have an officer who Donald Trump sometimes cite who was gunned down. They never tell you who gunned this person down. It was a Boogaloo Boys member. It sounds like a silly name, but they’re actually quite dangerous, using nearby peaceful protests that Black lives matter were holding as a cover. Federal authorities identified this man as an Air Force Sergeant, Steven Carrillo. He’s 32 years old. He's a member of this group. I ---- I mean, I guess when I don't hear that just described as domestic terrorism in the same way, it irks my spirit and I wonder for the Muslim community how does that land? The fact that we, in the media, don’t say immediately terrorism?
MOGAHED: Well, I think that many of us don't necessarily want everyone to be called a terrorist and that is a legal term that the media really shouldn't be throwing around against anyone. What we want, though, is simply objective fair coverage of all communities, of all acts of violence, whether they're ideologically motivated or not. What we see is that the term terrorist is only used against Muslims, no matter what their motivation might be and before there is a legal assessment. And that really hurts ordinary people. I mean, we know from our research, Joy, that Muslim children are the most likely group, twice as likely as other children, to be bullied in school and for their faith and as was mentioned, people who aren't Muslim who are perceived to be Muslim has the same treatment, so it has real world consequences. Muslim is also the most likely faith group to report, you know, religious-based discrimination. It --- it matters how the media talks about these things because it impacts ordinary people.
REID: Yeah, and Naveed, It also matters how our political leaders, and I think Dahlia is absolutely right that let's take that whole terrorism conversation off the table, just encouraging violence when it comes from a leader with as much power as the President of the United States, it feels, to me, more dangerous. I mean, you’ve had --- and let’s just show that --- people don't often show the two men killed in Kenosha. These were two innocent men. Their names are Anthony Huber and Joseph Rosenbaum. They were the victims in this case. They died as a result of somebody who came from out of state, allegedly, and shot three people, and they died. One of them was a dad. One of them was a young skateboarder. You have Donald Trump sharing a video on CNN, a white nationalist video that he retweeted falsely blaming Black Lives matter for a 2019 subway assault. So, you know, it’s sort of an all --- everybody in on getting blamed for things that they haven't done and I want you to listen to an ad by a woman named Elizabeth Newman who left the administration. She was a former assistant secretary for threat prevention in the Department of Homeland Security. Then I want to give each of you a response to respond, Naveed and then Dahlia.
ELIZABETH NEWMAN [in RVAT ad]: From January until March 11th, what you saw instead was a number of good public servants attempting to do their job and the President telling them to stop because he didn't want the economy to tank and he didn't want a distraction from his campaign. I'm sorry, Mr. President. You're hired to handle America's worst day and you have absolutely failed.
REID: I'm up against very little time. But Naveed, a very quick reaction from you and then I will give Dahila the last word.
JAMALI: So, this is all about dehumanizing people, right? And, you know, when Trump goes on TV and talks about a man shot in the back seven times by a police officer and compares that to choking playing golf, that's who we're dealing with and it’s important to understand that really when we talk about this, brown people have been dehumanized. The only way to solve that is by treating us like equals.
REID: Yep. Dahlia?
MOGAHED: Joy, fair coverage is important for democracy overall. It is not just about how Muslims portrayed. It is about informing the public and giving them facts.
REID: Indeed. Naveed Jamali, Dahlia Mogahed, thank you both very much. I really appreciate you guys being here tonight.
