With that in mind, CNN’s Howard Kurtz invited three prominent female bloggers – Mary Katharine Ham of TownHall.com, Arianna Huffington of the Huffington Post, and Joan Walsh of Salon – on Sunday’s “Reliable Sources” to discuss the recent treatment of technology blogger Kathy Sierra, and what it means for the blogosphere (video available here).
As you might imagine, an interesting debate developed between the conservative Ham and the others when Kurtz suggested that this behavior was just as prominent at conservative blogs as liberal ones. (Update: Mary Katharine gives her take of this segment here.)
Ham marvelously took issue with this inanity, and didn't cede ground when the others predictably agreed with Kurtz:
I disagree just a little bit. I think it is easy to say that this is a problem of both sides without realizing that there -- despite Arianna's obvious comportment and elegance on TV, that there are some serious monkeys hanging from the rafters over on the left side of the blogosphere.
And Michelle Malkin has been getting the C-word and the W-word in her in-box for years. And the same folks who wish for Cheney to be assassinated online are saying, you know, that Condi is a -- is brown sugar or, you know, a house slave.
So I think that they -- there really is a problem on the left side of the blogosphere with some of...
Kurtz then shared part of a blog that Malkin had recently written on the subject:
"Some women are more equal than others in the eyes of the progressive female progressive blogosphere because we have betrayed feminism, because we hold unorthodox political views on abortion, government race/gender preferences, education, the war, and taxes. And because we reject identity politics, we are not authentic women and we deserve what we get and we just don't count."
This set off quite a debate:
HUFFINGTON: I think it is really amazing that people like Michelle and others are really trying to make that a left- right thing. I read everything Joan wrote on the subject, and there wasn't a single thing that singled out progressive women bloggers. It was all about women.
And the idea that this is a left-wing phenomenon is just laughable, absolutely laughable. I mean, the most toxic women on TV practically is Ann Coulter, who is solidly on the right, who talks about rat poison for Judge Stevens, who talks about "New York Times" journalists needing to be executed.
I mean, this is the kind of absolutely toxic vile talk. And she is not even anonymous. So please, you know, let's stop this absurd idea that this has anything to do with the progressive blogosphere.
HAM: Well, the fact remains that we are doing a segment on CNN now that a politically neutral blogger has come into play when conservative women have been facing this for a long time. And I think...
WALSH: And liberal women have been facing it for a long time.
(CROSSTALK)
HAM: ... it is supremely ironic that the left decides to pay attention to these things only then. I think there is a special kind of abuse reserved for women who don't know their place, which let's you think is in the Democratic Party.
WALSH: I really -- I really resent that comment. I think that is absolutely not fair at all. We would never defend a sexist attack on a right-wing or a conservative female blogger. That is not what this is about at all.
HAM: I'm not saying that you defend it. I'm just saying that it goes politely unnoticed a lot of the time.
Kudos go out to Mary Katharine who went up against three liberals by herself, and did quite well.
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What follows is a full transcript of this segment.
HOWARD KURTZ, HOST “RELIABLE SOURCES”: Anyone who offers their opinions online, including me, learns to deal with vile comments and nasty e-mail from assorted nut jobs. But is this cyber assault much worse if you are a woman? Technology blogger Kathy Sierra temporarily shut down her Web site last week after the abuse proved to be too much.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KATHY SIERRA, TECHNOLOGY BLOGGER: I feel horrible. I feel frightened. I'm ready to just quit the whole industry.
I got comments on my own blog posts that included death threats and death threats with sexual implications, too. And that had never happened before.
In the comments, someone said, "The only thing Kathy has to offer me is that noose and her neck size."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ: Sierra's experience touched a nerve for other female bloggers and commentators.
Joining us now to explore the subject, from Portland, Oregon, Joan Walsh, editor of salon.com, who wrote a piece titled "Men Who Hate Women on the Web." In Los Angeles, Arianna Huffington, the founder and frequent opinion-monger of huffingtonpost.com. And in New York, Mary Katharine Ham, who blogs at townhall.com.
Joan Walsh, what kind of verbal abuse have you personally gotten and how does it affect you?
JOAN WALSH, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, SALON.COM: Well, you know, when I started at Salon, it was the height of impeachment and Salon was know for criticizing the Starr investigation and everything else.
And I was really shocked because I had been working in journalism for about 15 years, and I had never seen anything like it. It was all in e-mail, but it was very sexualized, I was frequently compared to Monica Lewinsky for anything vaguely positive I wrote about the president.
And even worse, much more -- very graphic, very demeaning. And it wasn't until we automated our letters and allowed our readers to write directly and publish on our site that I began to see these things that had only been in my in-box appear on Salon.
And you know, I want to make clear it is a tiny, tiny minority of comments. I want to make clear that what I have said to my women writers is, you have to be tough. You can't let it bother you. But after Kathy Sierra, I thought it was really time for me to be more honest about the way it has affected both me, as well as several women -- many women at Salon, to be honest.
KURTZ: Right. Let me get Arianna in here.
Do you get sexually explicit attacks and threats and especially since starting your Web site?
ARIANNA HUFFINGTON, BLOG EDITOR, HUFFINGTONPOST.COM: You know, I have gotten attacks and everything. I had a column. Very often, you know, they would tear the column out of the newspaper and write expletives on it and mail it to me. And I think what happens on the Internet is the anonymity provides a cloak. And any kind of vile thinking or hatred can be expressed for everybody to see. Now, at The Huffington Post, we moderate comments on the blog. So these comments will not appear.
We believe that if we are going to invite people to blog, we need to offer them a kind of civil environment. So we have moderators 24-7 filtering those comments out. We don't do that in the news yet, although we probably will just because it is impossible if you are going to allow just a tiny, as Joan said, minority of your readers to actually dominate the tone of the debate, to have an interesting, civil conversation.
KURTZ: And on that point, Arianna, this has been a problem on conservative sites, it is a problem on liberal sites, it is a problem on washingtonpost.com, a minority of people boasting racist or really offensive stuff.
And for example, when there was that suicide bomber in Afghanistan, and Vice President Cheney was there, some of the commentators on your site said, "Dr. Evil escapes again, damn." In other words, they were disappointed that Cheney wasn't killed. It was pretty horrifying stuff.
HUFFINGTON: And we immediately took them down, which we do on the new site. We take them down after they appear. But on the blog side, they never appear because...
MARY KATHARINE HAM, BLOGGER, TOWNHALL.COM: Well, they were up long enough for people to notice, that is for sure.
HUFFINGTON: Yes, and there are many of those comments that appear on right-wing sites and there are many of those comments that appear on YouTube. It is very important to realize this is not about right-left.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, absolutely not.
HUFFINGTON: I think you can be a 10-year-old little girl that sings her favorite song on YouTube and the first comment there will be "You suck, you can't sing, go kill yourself now." This has nothing to with politics. It has to do with the basic instincts of human nature. And we need to address it correctly.
HAM: I disagree just a little bit. I think it is easy to say that this is a problem of both sides without realizing that there -- despite Arianna's obvious comportment and elegance on TV, that there are some serious monkeys hanging from the rafters over on the left side of the blogosphere.
And Michelle Malkin has been getting the C-word and the W-word in her in-box for years. And the same folks who wish for Cheney to be assassinated online are saying, you know, that Condi is a -- is brown sugar or, you know, a house slave.
So I think that they -- there really is a problem on the left side of the blogosphere with some of...
(CROSSTALK)
KURTZ: I will get to Michelle Malkin in a moment. But Mary Katherine Ham, I happened to stumble across a comment that was posted to something that you had online. And it said that the biggest reason you have any fame whatsoever is that you are an attractive female. Attractive, but likely awkward in bed.
HAM: Right.
KURTZ: And then it went on to say some things that I can't repeat on the air.
How do you deal with that?
HAM: Well, on YouTube I think -- I believe that is where that comment is. I generally try to stay away from the YouTube comments. And I also don't usually censor them on YouTube because I think that they show themselves to be exactly what they are when you see that kind of nastiness which just like you said, you can't even repeat on TV.
So I let it roll off my back. I think it is very important for women on both sides of the aisle and in various ventures to, you know, stay tough and to not let these bullies, you know, make them back down.
KURTZ: Right.
Now, Joan Walsh, we talked just a moment ago about Michelle Malkin. She is the conservative blogger and FOX News commentator who says some inflammatory things, but it's really gotten some vicious feedback, some of it racist.
Here is what she wrote in response to your column in Salon: "Some women are more equal than others in the eyes of the progressive female progressive blogosphere because we have betrayed feminism, because we hold unorthodox political views on abortion, government race/gender preferences, education, the war, and taxes. And because we reject identity politics, we are not authentic women and we deserve what we get and we just don't count."
Her point is that you had not complained about this phenomenon when the conservatives were on the receiving end.
WALSH: Oh, come on, Howie. I mean, I'm sorry that I didn't say something about Michelle Malkin. Certainly she doesn't deserve that treatment, but she has gotten plenty of attention for it. I wasn't suggesting that it only happens to progressive women or that when it happens to progressive women, it matters.
The really interesting thing for me was that Kathy Sierra is a tech blogger. She is blogging about making software better for people. She is blogging about making the Web a better community, not about politics, not about Dick Cheney, not about Condi Rice. And she is getting the same kind of sexualized belittling comments.
So that is what really jumped out at me. I certainly would never say that what Michelle endures is acceptable at all.
HUFFINGTON: Absolutely. I think it is really amazing that people like Michelle and others are really trying to make that a left- right thing. I read everything Joan wrote on the subject, and there wasn't a single thing that singled out progressive women bloggers. It was all about women.
And the idea that this is a left-wing phenomenon is just laughable, absolutely laughable. I mean, the most toxic women on TV practically is Ann Coulter, who is solidly on the right, who talks about rat poison for Judge Stevens, who talks about "New York Times" journalists needing to be executed.
I mean, this is the kind of absolutely toxic vile talk. And she is not even anonymous. So please, you know, let's stop this absurd idea that this has anything to do with the progressive blogosphere.
HAM: Well, the fact remains that we are doing a segment on CNN now that a politically neutral blogger has come into play when conservative women have been facing this for a long time. And I think...
WALSH: And liberal women have been facing it for a long time.
(CROSSTALK)
HAM: ... it is supremely ironic that the left decides to pay attention to these things only then. I think there is a special kind of abuse reserved for women who don't know their place, which let's you think is in the Democratic Party.
WALSH: I really -- I really resent that comment. I think that is absolutely not fair at all. We would never defend a sexist attack on a right-wing or a conservative female blogger. That is not what this is about at all.
HAM: I'm not saying that you defend it. I'm just saying that it goes politely unnoticed a lot of the time.
WALSH: I guess what I -- I guess the point of my piece, though, was to say that I was trying to not notice what was happening to me or what was happening to my writers or what was happening to Arianna or her -- or her bloggers or you or Michelle Malkin, and to really stand above it and say, I'm not going to let those sexists get me down.
And what happened to Kathy Sierra made me take it seriously in the political blogosphere. But it is not matter of left or right.
KURTZ: As the lone male on this panel, I'm going to jump in here.
WALSH: Thank you, come on in.KURTZ: I have been writing about this for some time. And I have seen this on both the left and the right. It does seem particularly aimed at women, particularly personal, particularly hurtful. And it is a problem that all of us are struggling with.
