MSNBC’s Hardball host Chris Matthews was nearing the end of a long day’s coverage in Wisconsin covering the Badger State’s presidential primary results when he admitted to former Ted Cruz adviser Rick Tyler that he doesn’t understand the appeal of Cruz because he’s spent “the last 47 years” in the Washington D.C. area.
Coming off a commercial break as the clock grew closer to 1:00 a.m. Eastern, Matthews relayed to Tyler and his four other panelists that he was born in an “actual city” (try Philadelphia, Pennsylvania) before having “lived in Washington for the last 47 years” and therefore “I don’t get the Cruz thing.”
Promising that he didn’t want to have a discussion about Cruz personally, the exasperated Matthews called on Tyler to explain why the conservative senator has attracted such grassroots support:
Let’s talk about his movement. Rick, you were in the belly of the beast. Who was he with that seems to be thrilled with this guy? They're not just voting against Trump but voting for Cruz. They want him to be president of the United States. Explain those to me.
Tyler quickly responded with a slew of points about Cruz’s conservative principles, collective frustration with the Obama administration and how, at the same time, Cruz supporters are not all “anti-government, [but] they just want government to work within its means, within its constitutional bounds.”
After highlighting other issues like gun control and Common Core that have made conservatives fearful, Cruz campaign correspondent Hallie Jackson chimed into to add that she’s seen a consistent set of responses from Cruz supporters that she’s spoken to with the number one topic being the importance of the Constitution.
Matthews then interrupted to divert attention away from this discussion to paint conservatives like Tyler as extreme and wanting an America from before the Civil Rights Era (i.e. segregation):
I'm confounded by this because I look at all that happened since the early '60s. Prayer in school? It used to be you went to school in a rural area. They had King James Bible. Somebody read from it everyday and we felt like Protestants all together. No — no heterogeneity — everybody’s same. You want that back?
When Tyler opined that he’s “fine with people praying in school,” Matthews laughed and so Tyler asked the liberal host how a student praying in school would cause anyone harm. Naturally, Matthews chose to not answer and instead tout somewhat of a red herring in wondering if conservatives then believe that there should only be “one religion” in schools with “no gay marriages”:
MATTHEWS: And organized prayer? Do you want organized prayer with one religion?
TYLER: I don't think the state should be — that's —
MATTHEWS: I’m just wondering how much of the old — good old — the old-time religion do you guys really want? No gay marriages?
TYLER: No, I think it’s — well, look, it's not anti-gay. I think — it is that —
MATTHEWS: Well, Cruz doesn't believe in gay marriage.
TYLER: No, it's the other way around. People don’t respect Christian values and believe that marriage is between one man and one woman — no, let them believe it, but they’re saying no, they can't believe it.
All In host Chris Hayes eventually turned to asking Tyler about delegate math, but not before MSNBC national correspondent Joy Reid seized the opportunity to hint at Cruz’s success being due to the resentment conservatives have for President Obama:
You know, what’s interesting, is in both of what you guys were talking about in terms of what the Cruz campaign says is return to constitutionality is what was miss something Barack Obama, right? And the fact that a lot of these is a convulsion and reaction to the Obama presidency. I was on — sitting on a radio show with a guy who was taking calls from conservatives, a lot of Cruz supporters and said Obama has destroyed the Constitution....Now, they didn’t name specific things they think he’s done, but in their minds, he has destroyed the Second Amendment, he has destroyed the boundaries that the presidency was written to be in by the Founders[.]
The relevant portions of the transcript from MSNBC’s The Place for Politics 2016 in the 12:00 a.m. Eastern hour on April 6 can be found below.
MSNBC’s The Place for Politics 2016
April 6, 2016
12:42 a.m. Eastern
CHRIS MATTHEWS: I am a suburban — I mean, I actually born in the actual city but it felt like the suburbs and I lived in Washington for the last 47 years. I am a city guy, alright? I don't get the Cruz thing. I don't get him but let's not talk about him personally, what he looks like. Let’s talk about his movement. Rick, you were in the belly of the beast. Who was he with that seems to be thrilled with this guy? They're not just voting against Trump but voting for Cruz. They want him to be president of the United States. Explain those to me.
RICK TYLER: There are a millions of Americans who feel they're getting hammered and their government is too overbearing and they passed things like ObamaCare and they passed things that they're not anti-government, they just want government to work within its means, within its constitutional bounds and so there’s a lot of people feel like they're restricting our gun rights and forcing us to buy health care, they’re forcing us — they drive up prices and have all these regulations and they’re just — like common core, just the government is just in our lives and these people don't want government — they just want to be left alone.
HALLIE JACKSON: And specifically when you talk about Cruz, though, because that I think would apply to a lot of folks leaders in the conservative movement. For Cruz, when you go to the events, when talk to people supporting him over and over you hear a couple of things. You hear, number one, the Constitution. Ted Cruz is a disciplined candidate and has been pushing the message that he is a constitutional conservative for months — for a year since he launched his campaign in March.
(....)
MATTHEWS: I'm confounded by this because I look at all that happened since the early '60s. Prayer in school? It used to be you went to school in a rural area. They had King James Bible. Somebody read from it everyday and we felt like Protestants all together. No — no heterogeneity — everybody’s same. You want that back?
TYLER: The what —
MATTHEWS: Prayer in school! Do you want that back?
TYLER: I think that's fine with people praying in school.
[MATTHEWS LAUGHS]
TYLER: How is that going to hurt anybody?
MATTHEWS: And organized prayer? Do you want organized prayer with one religion.
TYLER: I don't think the state should be — that's —
MATTHEWS: I’m just wondering how much of the old — good old — the old-time religion do you guys really want? No gay marriages?
TYLER: No, I think it’s — well, look, it's not anti-gay. I think — it is that —
MATTHEWS: Well, Cruz doesn't believe in gay marriage.
TYLER: No, it's the other way around. People don’t respect Christian values and believe that marriage is between one man and one woman — no, let them believe it, but they’re saying no, they can't believe it.
(....)
JON NICHOLS: But I grew up in a town of about a thousand people and I didn't know what New York values was. I don't have that — I don't have that anti-New York thing that some —
JOY REID: It probably means something like what they used to call San Francisco values. It’s probably something cultural — I mean, probably does.
MATTHEWS: Well, I remember that. Jeanne Kirkpatrick said it that San Francisco Democrat meant gays.
REID: And it meant people that I think that they feel are less moral. You know, what’s interesting, is in both of what you guys were talking about in terms of what the Cruz campaign says is return to constitutionality is what was miss something Barack Obama, right? And the fact that a lot of these is a convulsion and reaction to the Obama presidency. I was on — sitting on a radio show with a guy who was taking calls from conservatives, a lot of Cruz supporters and said Obama has destroyed the Constitution. He's taken the presidency outside the realm of constitutionality. Now, they didn’t name specific things they think he’s done, but in their minds, he has destroyed the Second Amendment, he has destroyed the boundaries that the presidency was written to be in by the Founders and that is a part of it.
