No, actually, I wouldn't even argue with any of Sean Penn's assertions. I have no problems with what he says. What I love about him, though, is that when he does these speeches or when he's on Larry King, he keeps talking about censorship and how people are out to shut him up. But somehow he never shuts up. He just keeps talking. So every time he ever says that, he undermines his own argument. And that's why I love him.
I agree. Alas, Colmes didn’t, and proceeded to bang the same absurd drum he had the evening before with the MRC’s Brent Bozell:
Well, one of the arguments he makes, which is interesting, he says that the most effective form of de facto censorship is preemptive. For example, when Donald Rumsfeld compares those who oppose administration policies to appeasers, like Neville Chamberlain, or when people on my side who are antiwar are called traitors or somehow un-American, isn't that a preemptive form of censorship? And isn't Sean Penn right about that?
GUTFELD: No, because he's actually responding to it. If he wasn't allowed to respond to it, it would be censorship. That's what I'm saying. Every time he says it's censorship, he's actually undermining his own argument, which makes it slightly comical.
Colmes then brought in another guest who, of course, agreed with him:
You know, Ellis, he's speaking out. Thank goodness he is. And that's why he got a First Amendment award, not for saying popular speech, but for saying unpopular. You don't need a First Amendment award for saying things that everybody agrees with and it's safe speech.
ELLIS HENICAN, "NEWSDAY": One of the great things, Alan, about the First Amendment is you can celebrate it without embracing the content of everything that is said. In fact, in the Sean Penn comments, I mean, he took some shots at some friends of mine. He even called our buddy Hannity -- what was that word?
Colmes continued to pound on the same specious theme:
But you don't need First Amendment protection for popular speech or for speech goes along with the majority or that's in favor at the time. It's those who stand up against, speak out against a government, especially a government whose officials, like Rumsfeld, call you appeasers when you oppose them. That's when you get a First Amendment award.
GUTFELD: But, Alan, can I say this?
COLMES: Yes, you can.
GUTFELD: Thanks. Sean Penn never takes the opportunity to say these things in unpopular settings. He speaks to the choir. And what I really hate about it -- and I don't really hate it, I find it funny -- is that it takes on this heroic context that he's out there speaking truth to power, when he's actually talking to people who live in Brentwood, you know, who are friends of his.
Exactly. But, the fun really began when Alan ceded the microphone to Michael Reagan:
REAGAN: Greg's actually right. I mean, he was speaking to the choir. If we weren't covering this tonight on "Hannity & Colmes," nobody would have known what Sean Penn said last night...
(CROSSTALK)
COLMES: They read other things, Michael, besides just watching "Hannity & Colmes."
REAGAN: Alan, Alan, the fact is nobody was covering this, because Sean Penn, you know, what he was saying to a choir of people. What, he took on everybody at FOX, not only Sean. He took on O'Reilly. He took on Murdoch. He took on Ailes. He took on everybody but you, of course, and Alan.
So he's preaching to the choir, and he gets an award for preaching to the choir.
(CROSSTALK)
HENICAN: Michael, but here's the deal. There is no preaching to the choir anymore when stuff is covered as broadly as it is. Anything that you say in a public audience, including on this program or in some speech to the creative coalition, goes everywhere. So it's not like he's sneaking somewhere and saying something...
(CROSSTALK)
REAGAN: Let me go to Greg. Greg, wait a minute. If I would have gone there and said what I would say about the president, supportive of the president, what he was doing, do you think they would have given me a First Amendment award, for standing up with a group of people who disagree with me, and being able to say it?
GUTFELD: No. Whenever a conservative speaks to a hostile audience, they get a pie in their face.
HENICAN: Oh, come on, Greg. That is just silly. That is just silly.
(CROSSTALK)
REAGAN: Ellis, it's not silly at all. You look at what goes on in college campuses in America today...
(CROSSTALK)
HENICAN: You guys can handle that.
REAGAN: ... have to use bodyguards when they go speak at college campuses. At the same time, you go speak at a college campus. Do you need a bodyguard?
HENICAN: No, but when I go on talk radio sometimes I might.
REAGAN: Oh, please, your own show?
HENICAN: Listen, I'm a guy -- Michael, seriously, come on, let's be honest here. I'm a guy whose spent almost his entire life debating people in front of audiences when they disagree with me. Part of this democracy is going into a hostile environment, being outgunned, but still making your case in a creative environment.
REAGAN: That was hostile last night? That was hostile last night, sitting with those left-wing wackos? Come on.
(CROSSTALK)
HENICAN: No, no. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that we all, Michael, we all end up with audiences that are tough. And if you can't handle that, frankly, you shouldn't be in this business.
REAGAN: Wait a minute. Sean Penn hasn't come on my show and said those words on my show.
As the conversation ensued, Gutfeld made a fabulous observation:
The other point worth raising is, why are pacifists so belligerent? I mean, I've never met a friendly pacifist. He talks about world peace, but he's so angry. And the things that he was saying were so classless and brutal and cruel, but yet he's a pacifist.
And then Reagan made his own wonderful point that seems to be lost on the liberal media:
Greg, they say the president of the United States is the dumbest human being on the planet. They make fun of him because he's not smart. But the dumbest person on the planet was able to talk the liberal left into voting for him to go into Iraq and go to war. So who's really stupid?
GUTFELD: He's either an evil genius or he's retarded. You can't have both. That's the fundamental hypocrisy.
Marvelous stuff. What follows is a full transcript of this segment.
ALAN COLMES, CO-HOST:
First, our top story tonight. On Monday evening, at a First Amendment awards dinner, Oscar-winning actor Sean Penn called for the impeachment of the president and vice president. And actor Matt Damon also recently took a shot at the president, saying in an interview that, if Bush were sending people to war, then his own twin daughters should be deployed.
So is Hollywood out of touch with mainstream America or are they saying exactly what Americans want to hear?
Joining us now, FOX News contributor Greg Gutfeld and New York "Newsday" columnist and FOX News contributor Ellis Henican.
Good to see you both once again.
GREG GUTFELD, HUFFINGTONPOST.COM: Hey, you guys.
COLMES: Greg, you know, a Zogby poll earlier this year shows that, if Bush lied about Iraq and about wiretapping and WMDs, 52 percent would like to see him impeached. So go ahead, and I know you're going to tell me how out of touch the elite Hollywood liberals are, but not so much, right?
GUTFELD: No, actually, I wouldn't even argue with any of Sean Penn's assertions. I have no problems with what he says. What I love about him, though, is that when he does these speeches or when he's on Larry King, he keeps talking about censorship and how people are out to shut him up.
But somehow he never shuts up. He just keeps talking. So every time he ever says that, he undermines his own argument. And that's why I love him.
COLMES: Well, one of the arguments he makes, which is interesting, he says that the most effective form of de facto censorship is preemptive. For example, when Donald Rumsfeld compares those who oppose administration policies to appeasers, like Neville Chamberlain, or when people on my side who are antiwar are called traitors or somehow un-American, isn't that a preemptive form of censorship? And isn't Sean Penn right about that?
GUTFELD: No, because he's actually responding to it. If he wasn't allowed to respond to it, it would be censorship. That's what I'm saying. Every time he says it's censorship, he's actually undermining his own argument, which makes it slightly comical.
COLMES: You know, Ellis, he's speaking out. Thank goodness he is. And that's why he got a First Amendment award, not for saying popular speech, but for saying unpopular. You don't need a First Amendment award for saying things that everybody agrees with and it's safe speech.
ELLIS HENICAN, "NEWSDAY": One of the great things, Alan, about the First Amendment is you can celebrate it without embracing the content of everything that is said. In fact, in the Sean Penn comments, I mean, he took some shots at some friends of mine. He even called our buddy Hannity -- what was that word?
COLMES: I don't -- you know, that's censored from my computer. I can't read that.
(CROSSTALK)
HENICAN: It was a little bit -- and seriously I don't think Sean is that at all. I think he believes every single crazy thing he says. So I'm going to stand up for Sean and for O'Reilly and my other friends...
(CROSSTALK)
COLMES: Look, I stand up for Hannity to speak, for you to speak. Even Greg Gutfeld has a right to speak. And even Michael Reagan, can you believe that?
(LAUGHTER)
GUTFELD: Thank you, Alan.
(CROSSTALK)
COLMES: But you don't need First Amendment protection for popular speech or for speech goes along with the majority or that's in favor at the time. It's those who stand up against, speak out against a government, especially a government whose officials, like Rumsfeld, call you appeasers when you oppose them. That's when you get a First Amendment award.
GUTFELD: But, Alan, can I say this?
COLMES: Yes, you can.
GUTFELD: Thanks. Sean Penn never takes the opportunity to say these things in unpopular settings. He speaks to the choir. And what I really hate about it -- and I don't really hate it, I find it funny -- is that it takes on this heroic context that he's out there speaking truth to power, when he's actually talking to people who live in Brentwood, you know, who are friends of his.
(CROSSTALK)
REAGAN: Mike Reagan here in Los Angeles.
(CROSSTALK)
REAGAN: Let me jump in for a moment. Ellis, let me jump in for a minute.
HENICAN: Yes, Mike.
REAGAN: Greg's actually right. I mean, he was speaking to the choir. If we weren't covering this tonight on "Hannity & Colmes," nobody would have known what Sean Penn said last night...
(CROSSTALK)
COLMES: They read other things, Michael, besides just watching "Hannity & Colmes."
REAGAN: Alan, Alan, the fact is nobody was covering this, because Sean Penn, you know, what he was saying to a choir of people. What, he took on everybody at FOX, not only Sean. He took on O'Reilly. He took on Murdoch. He took on Ailes. He took on everybody but you, of course, and Alan.
So he's preaching to the choir, and he gets an award for preaching to the choir.
(CROSSTALK)
HENICAN: Michael, but here's the deal. There is no preaching to the choir anymore when stuff is covered as broadly as it is. Anything that you say in a public audience, including on this program or in some speech to the creative coalition, goes everywhere. So it's not like he's sneaking somewhere and saying something...
(CROSSTALK)
REAGAN: Let me go to Greg. Greg, wait a minute. If I would have gone there and said what I would say about the president, supportive of the president, what he was doing, do you think they would have given me a First Amendment award, for standing up with a group of people who disagree with me, and being able to say it?
GUTFELD: No. Whenever a conservative speaks to a hostile audience, they get a pie in their face.
HENICAN: Oh, come on, Greg. That is just silly. That is just silly.
(CROSSTALK)
REAGAN: Ellis, it's not silly at all. You look at what goes on in college campuses in America today...
(CROSSTALK)
HENICAN: You guys can handle that.
REAGAN: ... have to use bodyguards when they go speak at college campuses. At the same time, you go speak at a college campus. Do you need a bodyguard?
HENICAN: No, but when I go on talk radio sometimes I might.
REAGAN: Oh, please, your own show?
HENICAN: Listen, I'm a guy -- Michael, seriously, come on, let's be honest here. I'm a guy whose spent almost his entire life debating people in front of audiences when they disagree with me. Part of this democracy is going into a hostile environment, being outgunned, but still making your case in a creative environment.
REAGAN: That was hostile last night? That was hostile last night, sitting with those left-wing wackos? Come on.
(CROSSTALK)
HENICAN: No, no. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that we all, Michael, we all end up with audiences that are tough. And if you can't handle that, frankly, you shouldn't be in this business.
REAGAN: Wait a minute. Sean Penn hasn't come on my show and said those words on my show.
(CROSSTALK)
HENICAN: Michael, I'll come on your show. Don't worry.
REAGAN: We invited him on. Oh, you can come on any time you want to.
HENICAN: I'll come. We'll go at it, buddy.
(LAUGHTER)
GUTFELD: The other point worth raising is, why are pacifists so belligerent? I mean, I've never met a friendly pacifist. He talks about world peace, but he's so angry. And the things that he was saying were so classless and brutal and cruel, but yet he's a pacifist.
(CROSSTALK)
REAGAN: ... Greg, they throw out the same stuff, impeaching the president of the United States. Alan says, well, if the president lied, 52 percent of the people think he should be impeached. But where did he lie? You know, one thing, Ellis, and let me ask you this...
HENICAN: We can get to that, too.
REAGAN: ... and maybe you, too, Greg, they say the president of the United States is the dumbest human being on the planet. They make fun of him because he's not smart. But the dumbest person on the planet was able to talk the liberal left into voting for him to go into Iraq and go to war. So who's really stupid?
GUTFELD: He's either an evil genius or he's retarded. You can't have both. That's the fundamental hypocrisy.
HENICAN: You know what? I don't think the guy is stupid. But here's the difference between Republicans and Democrats on this stuff. Democrats don't follow their extremists off the edge of the cliff. Remember the impeachment you guys did? That didn't work out very well, now, did it?
REAGAN: No, but he was impeached.
COLMES: All right, guys, we thank you. Greg, we thank you. Ellis, great to see you.
HENICAN: Great to see you guys.
