The so-called “conservatives” of ABC’s The View haven’t been about promoting conservativism for a long time; instead preferring to make their personal ideologies all about hating President Trump and trying to get Democratic politicians elected. On Friday’s episode, they closed out the week by inviting liberal columnist Ezra Klein (there to promote his new book) on to commiserate about how to reduce the harmful consequences of liberal polices in blue states, which were driving residents to red states.
Citing the “incredible example in the book of high-speed rail in California,” faux conservative Alyssa Farah Griffin wanted Klein to explain how “because of some climate policies it's actually delayed its ability to be built” and “these contradictions within what some of the Democrats are leaning into.”
Farah Griffin actually lamented that Republicans were able to effectively use California as the prime example of how bad liberal policies were, and wanted Klein to give the solutions:
But I want to ask you this, you use this example of, Democrats should run on, you know, ‘move to California, we can govern the whole country like it,’ but Republicans have actually been able to say, ‘it's so unaffordable, a lot of things don't work there well.’ So, what is your message to Democrats on what they can learn to make blue states not be a place that people are fleeing to red states like Florida and Texas?
“So, no one should be more relentless about making government work than Democrats. We should be by far the most infuriated when it doesn't deliver and when it doesn’t deliver fast,” Klein proclaimed, pointing to Colorado as a better blue state to emulate:
Now, its worth saying California is not the only blue state in the nation. And there are particular problems in places like California and New York but you look at a place like Colorado and it’s governed fairly differently and it’s working pretty well.
There is a report I've been thinking about that shows how much it costs to build publicly subsidized housing, affordable housing in Colorado, in Texas, and California. And per square foot, it's a lot more money to do it for -- in California even in Texas. In Colorado, when the government does it, it's a little bit cheaper than market rate development.
Pretend independent Sara Haines wanted Klein to breakdown something in the book he called “everything bagel liberalism” and “how that's gotten in the way of progress.” “Why didn't high-speed rail happen? What happens with rural broadband? You begin to see this layering on of dozens and dozens of different goals into a single project,” he stated.
According to his research, a host of liberal pet projects and social justice initiatives (though he didn’t acknowledge them by name) often hamstrung other liberal programs. “You're trying to do all kinds of environmental standards and wage goals and things that are all or many of them on their own good,” he pointed out. “And projects often collapse under their own weight.”
Cueing in on Klein’s desire for slashing red tape and streamlining government bureaucracy, fake Republican Ana Navarro saw similarities with “what Elon Musk had promised he'd target with DOGE. But that's been largely unsuccessful at finding huge waste.” “What are they doing wrong?” she wanted to know.
According to Klein, Musk was stabbing America. “Look, the fact that you have a patient who could use surgery doesn't mean you have a patient who could use a stabbing; and DOGE is a stabbing. It's an effort to destroy state capacity,” he decried. “What they've done I think is an effort to create an ideological purge, break the thing and control it.”
“What we're trying to do argue for an expansion of what the state is capable of doing and delivering,” he declared. “Sometimes that is deregulation. Sometimes it is cutting through bureaucracy. Sometimes it's bringing a lot more expertise and capability in-house.”
So just big government in a new suit.
The transcript is below. Click "expand" to read:
ABC’s The View
April 25, 2025
11:37:04 a.m. Eastern(…)
ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN: You use this incredible example in the book of high-speed rail in California. I remember more than a decade ago when it was announced and it should have been – a huge impact on climate and it’d be able to make people live for affordably, commute more places; but actually because of some climate policies it's actually delayed its ability to be built. So, sometimes you kind of point to these contradictions within what some of the Democrats are leaning into.
But I want to ask you this, you use this example of, Democrats should run on, you know, ‘move to California, we can govern the whole country like it,’ but Republicans have actually been able to say, ‘it's so unaffordable, a lot of things don't work there well.’ So, what is your message to Democrats on what they can learn to make blue states not be a place that people are fleeing to red states like Florida and Texas?
EZRA KLEIN: So, no one should be more relentless about making government work than Democrats. We should be by far the most infuriated when it doesn't deliver and when it doesn’t deliver fast.
Now, its worth saying California is not the only blue state in the nation. And there are particular problems in places like California and New York but you look at a place like Colorado and it’s governed fairly differently and it’s working pretty well.
There is a report I've been thinking about that shows how much it costs to build publicly subsidized housing, affordable housing in Colorado, in Texas, and California. And per square foot, it's a lot more money to do it for -- in California even in Texas. In Colorado, when the government does it, it's a little bit cheaper than market rate development.
So, there are places we can look to learn things. France and Spain, they do public transit really well.
ANA NAVARRO: Wait till they report all those undocumented immigrants working in construction.
KLEIN: That’s another – Look, you’ve a Trump administration that has really embraced scarcity right now. There's a version of what they could have been, that could have come in and said, “Our biggest issue in the world is making things more affordable, making them more plentiful,” and they have embraced tariffs, they’ve embraced deportations, they’ve destroyed the stock market.
They do not want a future of more. They want a contained future where everything is ours and that's created a big opportunity for Democrats if they choose to take it.
SARA HAINES: Well, Ezra, I wanted to ask you. You write about what you call “everything bagel liberalism” and how that's gotten in the way of progress. Can you explain what you mean by that?
KLEIN: Yeah, so if you dig in to what happens after the bill passes, you look at what is happening in the project. Why didn't high-speed rail happen? What happens with rural broadband? You begin to see this layering on of dozens and dozens of different goals into a single project. Right? You're trying to do all kinds of environmental standards and wage goals and things that are all or many of them on their own good.
HAINES: Right.
KLEIN: But these things are hard to do in the first place. It’s hard to build high-speed rail. It’s hard to get housing done in places where it’s difficult to build. And projects often collapse under their own weight.
There aren't many -- there aren't many single changes you could make that I think would do all that much across domains. But one cultural change you could make in governance is to say that projects should more or less be doing one thing or very few things.
HAINES: Right.
KLEIN: That their goal should be their goal.
JOY BEHAR: What's the one thing?
KLEIN: Well, it depends on what project. If you’re building housing, it should be to build housing. And if you’ve created situation where to build public housing – publicly subsidized housing in California it's more than four times more expensive per square-foot as building market housing in Texas. You’ve a problem and you need to work back through the process you created when you spend public money to figure out how you've added so much cost in time to the spending of public money –
SUNNY HOSTIN: Did you find out why?
KLEIN: - because that’s a betrayal of the taxpayer.
HOSTIN: Did you find out why?
KLEIN: Yeah, I mean, I tracked back a bunch of different affordable housing projects and, I mean, you know, different ones are different. But the basic thing is public money in California, a lot of places triggers a bunch of new rules, it triggers different wage rules, it triggers different environmental rules, it triggers different building rules and all of it adds cost and time. There are preferences for using small contractors not big ones.
And, like I've done this on so many projects now and they're all unhappy in their own ways, but it is a similar story across many of them that they were not focused on the thing they promised and oftentimes they didn't get anything at all.
Look, there’s a million ideas that have gone into what we should be doing during California high-speed rail, but in the end we haven't achieved any of them because you can't ride a high-speed rail. So, sometimes you try to achieve so much that you end up achieving nothing.
NAVARRO: Ezra, much of what you take issue with, bureaucracy, overregulation, red tape. It kind of sounds an awful lot like what Elon Musk had promised he'd target with DOGE. But that's been largely unsuccessful at finding huge waste. It's very unpopular. So unpopular he's even tanking his own businesses as a result. Does that make it harder to make the case that government is the issue and bureaucracy and deregulation? What are they doing wrong?
KLEIN: Look, the fact that you have a patient who could use surgery doesn't mean you have a patient who could use a stabbing; and DOGE is a stabbing. It's an effort to destroy state capacity.
Throughout this book Derrick and I, what we're trying to do –
[Applause]
What we're trying to do argue for an expansion of what the state is capable of doing and delivering. Sometimes that is deregulation. Sometimes it is cutting through bureaucracy. Sometimes it's bringing a lot more expertise and capability in-house.
It's an amazing thing as I run around talking about how bloated the government is, since the '60s the size of the federal civilian workforce has barely budged. We employed about two million people in it then, we employ about two million people in it now; give or take the people he’s fired.
You want to look at government and say, ‘what does it need to be able to do and what resources and rules, does it need to have in order to achieve it?’ What they've done I think is an effort to create an ideological purge, break the thing and control it.
(…)
