Thursday’s Morning Joe featured a discussion on the Iranian deal and hostages in Iran. Late into the segment, Mika Brzezinski inquired of Vali Nasr, who worked formerly in the State Department of the Obama administration, “in terms of the nuclear deal, just curious, how surprised are either of you that hostages and our journalists, weren’t a part, just a part of that?” When Nasr and Karl Vick of Time Magazine both expressed a lack of surprise for ignoring the fate of the hostages, Joe Scarborough cut loose. “Hostages. Holding journalists hostages. How do you even get to the table?
Nasr tried to justify why the hostages weren’t brought up, “Well, if you want to have a deal about nuclear issue, it has to be about nuclear issue. The more issues you connect –“, however Morning Joe regular Nicolle Wallace jumped in, agitated by that claim.
“Really? Because we gave them weapons, it wasn't just about I mean, I think the reason that Joe described, there are a lot of Americans that have a lot of concerns because Washington Post reporters still in jail, he's been convicted since the deal was done. Now serving a sentence, not just being out for questioning, and they're still screaming death to America on the streets of Iran.”
What followed was a rather tense exchange between Scarborough and Nasr, and the segment concluded with Vick and Nasr trying to justify that trust is an issue for both sides, not just the US trusting Iran.
SCARBOROUGH: And how can we trust them if we can't even trust that they're not going to wrongly convict Americans and throw them in jail?
NASR: There are different issues here, you go to negotiation's table, you, John Kerry, you sit there to conclude a deal, you have to focus on what the deal is about.
SCARBOROUGH: But if you break into my house the night before and you steal all my stereo equipment, and in the next day, you're telling me trust me, I'm not going to come to your house next week with a shotgun and start blowing people away, I'm probably not going to start my negotiations with you until you return my damn stereo equipment. There will be people who say that’s simple-minded, that’s not simple-minded logic. If you don't have a meeting of the minds and at least a good faith start, how do you begin any negotiations?
This isn’t the first time this week morning Joe has grilled White House officials on the Iran Deal, on Monday’s Morning Joe, Richard Stengel faced down the Morning Joe crew for saying that that the hostages were never effectively on the table.
See the relevant transcript below.
2015-11-5-MSNBC Morning Joe
MIKA BRZEZINSKI: 48 past the hour, joining us now, Time Magazine’s Editor-at-Large, Karl Vick, Karl wrote the cover story for this week’s new issue, Iran 2025, how its next decade will change the world. Also with us, former state department senior advisor, now the Dean of John's Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies, Vali Nasr.
JOE SCARBOROUGH: So Karl, I've been very critical of the deal. I think it's an absolutely horrific deal, at the same time the deal with Iran is a cosmic bet, and I always tell people, never made the deal, I think it's dangerous, but, if it works, it changes the world.
KARL VICK: Well, that's the deal.
SCARBOROUGH: In a way, in a way that Americans can never understand.
VICK: The basis of this story, I went to Tehran to see, I haven't been there in nine years, it’s like my 11th visit, but I've been there a lot, and it's important to see what's changed since the last time I was there, because the whole premise of the nuclear deal is that Iran will change. It expires, it begins to expire in ten years, and in 15 years, they can run all the centrifuges they want, and get bomb back within reach. The U.N. will still be there to inspect all these things. But the idea is that it won't be the same Iran in 10, 15 years. So that's what the story take a look at.
SCARBOROUGH: And Vali, what's happening in Iran right now internally? They're arresting more Americans, locking more Americans up. Every day we hear more bad acting from the Iranians. Are these the hard liners that are sharing the hard liners in Iran that even though they made a deal with America, we're still the great Satan to them?
VALI NASR: Well I think both countries signed this deal saying this is very specifically about the nuclear issue, it's not about opening up. That was the line here in Congress, that’s also the line in Iran as well. They're going into an election season, and they actually don't want, I think to have this issue of relations with America as a campaign issue in Iran.So early off-the-bat, they're taking it off the table. And so we're going to see, and also that gives the hardliners much more room in the election campaign to basically aggressively campaign against the deal and say okay, we signed this, but no more.
SCARBOROUGH: Karl we talk about this all the time, a lot of misperceptions in America since 1979 about the Iranians. First of all, not Arab, secondly, incredibly educated, I say not Arab because call an Iranian an Arab, they'll knock your head off. Extraordinarily educated, they have a 5,000-year history. It is a very complicated society, and women in power in Iran in a way that they aren’t in power in other Muslim countries.
VICK: Very true. One thing that was really striking to me about this and I begin the article with it, is that it used to be the way the headscarf was worn was the way you told what was going on inside the country, right? It was like, more hair, stronger performance for the moderates, less hair, stronger performance for the hard-liners. That’s no longer a measure, the hardliners have given up on that issue. On the question of the hijab, which doesn't seem like a big deal to us, but it was really core to revolutionary ideas, to enforcing public morality, they have basically, since the 2009 Green Revolution, pass a deal between them and the public is, you leave politics to us, and we're going to give you personal space. That's a huge, there's these arrests now and the hard liners are pushing back, but they've ceded a huge chunk of political space, not just personal space for that.
BRZEZINSKI: So in terms of the nuclear deal, just curious, how surprised are either of you that hostages and our journalists, weren’t a part, just a part of that? Just not even beginning to talk until justice is --
NASR: I'm not surprised at all. To cut a deal, you narrow what the deal is about.
BRZEZINSKI: But how can you cut a deal with someone who's holding --
SCARBOROUGH: Hostages. Holding journalists hostages. How do you even get to the table?
BRZEZINSKI: Isn't that a base?
NASR: Well, if you want to have a deal about nuclear issue, it has to be about nuclear issue. The more issues you connect --
NICOLLE WALLACE: Really? Because we gave them weapons, it wasn't just about I mean, I think the reason that Joe described, there are a lot of Americans that have a lot of concerns because Washington Post reporters still in jail, he's been convicted since the deal was done. Now serving a sentence, not just being out for questioning, and they're still screaming death to America on the streets of Iran. So I read, how much have the sentiments of the Iranians changed towards us?
SCARBOROUGH: And how can we trust them if we can't even trust that they're not going to wrongly convict Americans and throw them in jail?
NASR: There are different issues here, you go to negotiation's table, you, John Kerry, you sit there to conclude a deal, you have to focus on what the deal is about.
SCARBOROUGH: But if you break into my house the night before and you steal all my stereo equipment, and in the next day, you're telling me trust me, I'm not going to come to your house next week with a shotgun and start blowing people away, I'm probably not going to start my negotiations with you until you return my damn stereo equipment. There will be people who say that’s simple-minded, that’s not simple-minded logic. If you don't have a meeting of the minds and at least a good faith start, how do you begin any negotiations?
NASR: That's not the way we approach the negotiation. The issue of Iran’s nuclear --
SCARBOROUGH: If I can't trust you in small things, how can I trust you in large things?
NASR: Trust is a problem on both sides, the key issue is when we went to the negotiations table, the regional issues were not put on the table. The arrest of Jason was not put on the table. So we basically took away all the other issues away, to just focus on the one thing that they could make a deal.
VICK: There has been some good faith, I mean the supposed mastermind of the Khobar Towers bombing, five weeks after the deal is signed, suddenly, he's no longer under the protection of Hezbollah, and he's turned over Saudi intelligence. So there's layers and layers. And Rouhani’s has made, you know, indicated that the Washington Post reporter might be --
