Morning Joe: Don’t Know What Trump Did Re Epstein, But At Least 'Immoral,’ Maybe Criminal

On Friday's Morning Joe, the MS NOW panelists delivered a remarkable formulation regarding President Trump and the Jeffrey Epstein matter: they repeatedly portrayed Trump as looking “guilty” — while conceding they do not know what, if anything, he actually did.

The segment began with a clip of Trump responding to a reporter’s question about Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick’s past visit to Epstein’s Caribbean island. Trump said he was unaware of the visit and emphasized, “I was never there.”

That didn’t prevent the discussion from quickly shifting to speculation about Trump’s demeanor and possible wrongdoing.

MS NOW analyst John Heilemann declared that Trump and those around him have “acted guilty” throughout the controversy. He said their conduct makes it look as though they are “hiding things” and that Trump is “guilty of something.”

Then came the striking concession.

HEILEMANN: We still don’t really know what, if anything, Donald Trump did that might be illegal, that might be criminal, it might just be immoral.

The construction was telling. Even while admitting he does not know what Trump did — or whether any crime occurred — Heilemann suggested that whatever the conduct was, it was at least immoral—and possibly criminal.

Guilty of what? Immoral in what way? The panel did not specify.

Instead, the emphasis remained on appearances. Heilemann argued that Trump’s and Attorney General Pam Bondi’s behavior makes it look “more and more like they are hiding stuff.” Heilemann is not a religious man, but this sounds like a faith-based position. He believes in Trump being evil. 

Former Hillary-for-President communications director Jen Palmieri reinforced the psychological framing. Trump, she claimed, “acts in a way he does with no other issue, guilty and scared.” She speculated that his remark about not speaking to Lutnick must have been scripted because “somebody told him” to say it.

No evidence was presented. No particular act was identified. The case rested on tone, posture, and inference.

Heilemann also offered a revealing aside about how such narratives travel. Most Americans, he noted, didn't watch Bondi’s congressional testimony. But he predicted Saturday Night Live would mock her in a cold open, thereby “get[ting] it out there into the culture.”

In other words, when liberal political commentators float suspicions of criminal or immoral conduct against conservatives, the entertainment arm of the liberal media ecosystem will help transmit that impression to a broader audience. They can rely on SNL to provide propaganda for the Left.

The through-line of the segment was unmistakable: Trump looks guilty. He seems to be hiding something. Whatever it is, it may be criminal — and at the very least, immoral.

Yet even as those implications were advanced, the panel acknowledged it does not know “what, if anything” Trump did.

If commentators don't know what occurred, the responsible course is to report facts as they emerge — not to presume that unidentified conduct was, at minimum, morally wrong.

Here's the transcript.

MS NOW
Morning Joe
2/13/26
6:00 am ET

REPORTER: Mr. President, were you aware that Secretary of Commerce visited Epstein's Island? And do you continue to have confidence in him?

PRESIDENT TRUMP: No, I wasn't aware of it. No, I didn't. I actually haven't spoken to him about it. I wasn't. But from what I hear, he was there with his wife and children. And I guess in some cases, some people were. I wasn't. I was never there. Somebody will someday say that. I was never there. 

MIKA BRZEZINSKI: All right. President Trump yesterday, telling reporters he has not talked to Howard Lutnick, who admitted this week that he took his family, nannies, kids, to Jeffrey Epstein's Island in 2012. And that was years after Lutnick claimed to have cut off contact with the convicted sex offender who he called "gross."

. . . 

JOHN HEILEMANN: And then in every turn from now, and this is to bring it up to today, they have only acted guilty. That's the -- most Americans are not watching Pam Bondi on Capitol Hill. They're sane. They're not like us. We watch these things live. You will see, I'm certain, a cold open on Saturday Night Live this Saturday making fun of Pam Bondi. So that will get it out into the culture. 

But for anybody in the political class, for a Republican, a Democrat on Capitol Hill, for the survivors, for the media, everything that Donald Trump has done and that his people around him have done throughout this period, and it's only made worse by the way Pam Bondi behaved, like a lunatic on Capitol Hill on Wednesday, is to make them look like they are hiding things and make them look guilty. 

We still don't really know what, if anything, Donald Trump did that might be illegal, that might be criminal, it might just be immoral.

But the reality is, does anything that they've done make us want to see the two million documents that have not been released less, or does it make us want to see them more? It makes everybody want to see them more because Pam Bondi's behavior, Donald Trump's behavior, makes it look more and more like they are hiding stuff and that Donald Trump is guilty of something. 

. . . 

JEN PALMIERI: The weird thing is the behavior from the president, right? Because it's just, even that little clip you showed about him reacting to Howard Letnick, that guy is never prepared. He was clearly on a script when he said, I haven't talked to Howard Lutnick about it. Somebody told him, it's important that you say that. Because maybe that triggers congressional questions or something. 

But he acts in a way he does with no other issue, guilty and scared. And when the communications strategy doesn't make any sense, look to the person at the top to understand like the bad, you know, why it's going that, why it's going that way. And I think you just have to look at Trump.