The argument was over immigration. And it wasn't a fair fight. In this corner, Republican Rep. Byron Donalds of Florida. Totally fluent with facts, and able to present them in a cogent and compelling manner.
In the other corner, Don Lemon, with a weak grasp of the facts, and capable of little other than haranguing Donalds, repeatedly, patronizingly, informing him that it would be "better" for him to work with Biden rather than criticize him. Stop dealing in the past two years, Lemon repeatedly instructed. Ever heard this one, Don: those who ignore history are condemned to repeat it?
If, instead of Lemon, it had been a white conservative addressing a black liberal in such a condescending manner, telling him what would be "better" for him to do . . . you fill in the blanks.
Donalds frustrated Lemon from the jump, noting border crossings going from 400-500,000 yearly before Biden, to 2.2 million in 2022 under Biden. Lemon then insisted "Homeland Security is saying your numbers don't match up."
LEMON: Wouldn't a better response be, well we don't agree with this, but we'd like to take this framework and work on it and try to make it better, rather than just saying, it's not great, this is not going to work? I want to see it. He actually put something out and laid something out there for people to work with. Isn't that a better idea to try to do it?
DONALDS: Two things: number one, we were at Oversight yesterday discussing this in particular. I know Homeland Security's numbers, trust me. My numbers add up! I did the math yesterday in committee. We actually talked with border chiefs about it specifically yesterday. Number two, the president's immigration policies, when he changed border protocols, when he came into office January 20, 2021, these are his executive orders. They have led to the massive shifts, the massive raises and people crossing the border illegally.
LEMON: Answer my question.
DONALDS: I am!
LEMON: Wouldn't it be better to try to work with the president instead of criticizing the plan, saying it's not going to work, or, [inaudible] has not worked.
Note: For those following the rift between Lemon and co-host Kaitlin Collins, in which CNN honcho Chris Licht ordered Lemon off the air for a day after he screamed at Collins for interrupting him, there was an interesting moment today. At one point, Lemon, aware that he was hogging the airtime, said to Donalds, while gesturing at Collins [see screencap]: "I don't want to keep arguing with you. I want my colleague to get in." Then he didn't let her in. He kept fighting with Donalds.
CNN's Don Lemon condescending to GOP Rep. Byron Donalds on immigration was sponsored in part by Farmers Insurance, Audi, and GlaxoSmithKline, maker of Voltaren.
Here's the transcript.
CNN This Morning
2/8/23
6:21 am ETBYRON DONALDS: Before the president came into office, your average intake was about 400,000. Maybe 500,000 if you had a surge year. Since he's been president, 1.6 million entrants in 2021. 2.2 million entrants in 2022. And rising. All they're trying to do is shift the burden. That's all they're doing.
DON LEMON: Homeland Security is saying your numbers don't match up. So that, listen, let's move on, because I want to ask. Isn't that the point of a plan, is to debate? You're saying that we want to see, we want to see the plan.
The president put out a plan. Wouldn't a better response be, well we don't agree with this, but we'd like to take this framework and work on it and try to make it better, rather than just saying, it's not great, this is not going to work? I want to see it.
He actually put something out and laid something out there for people to work with. Isn't that a better idea to try to do it?
DONALDS: Two things: number one, we were at Oversight yesterday discussing this in particular. I know Homeland Security's numbers, trust me. My numbers add up! I did the math yesterday in committee. We actually talked with border chiefs about it specifically yesterday. Number two, the president's immigration policies, when he changed border protocols, when he came into office January 20, 2021, these are his executive orders. They have led to the massive shifts, the massive raises and people crossing the border illegally.
LEMON: Answer my question.
DONALDS: I am!
LEMON: Wouldn't it be better to try to work with the president instead of criticizing the plan, saying it's not going to work, or, [inaudible] has not worked.
DONALDS: We would love to.But you actually have to secure the border! You have to take care of the issues. Like I said, illegal crossings are up four --LEMON: Isn't he saying that's what he's trying to do? But you're criticizing something that happened in the past. What he's saying is that I want to move forward and try to work people.
And you're saying, but, but and you're looking backwards instead of forward, like the people that heckled him and said, he goes, wait, wait, I'm getting there. And then the next sentence out of his mouth is, we want to work on border security and try to work on these things. You're looking backwards!
DONALDS: Don, you have to look back at the policy changes! How can you ignore four-and-a-half million people coming through the southern border and say, don't look back at the last two years, let's just look forward? You have to have policy changes.LEMON: You can't retroactively change the policies. You can say you want to work in the future to change them.
DONALDS: You have to have policy changes!
LEMON: Okay, fine. Isn't that what he is saying?
DONALDS: You've to have policy changes!
LEMON: Isn't that what he's saying?
DONALDS: No, he's re-allocating the situation. He's not changed the overall protocols. He's just re-allocating them. That's the point that we're making. If you go back to remain-in-Mexico, which did work, if you actually go back to making sure you adjudicate asylum before somebody comes to the border. If you say to border agents, which was the policy under President Trump, President Obama, President Clinton and President Bush, that they can make, they can make determinations --
LEMON: I don't want to keep arguing with you. I want my colleague [Kaitlan Collins] to get in.
But again, is there an answer that says, instead of we don't want to look back, is there an answer that says, moving forward, here's what we can do?
DONALDS: Moving forward, you have to give border agents the proper tools in order to actually secure the border. The president has taken that from them. That's what he did.
LEMON: Okay, so, in the future, you would like to he see the president do what with border agents?
DONALDS: I just told you! You have to give them the ability to make determinations about credible fear. You have to reinstate the remain-in-Mexico policy. You have to not give massive asylum proceedings, which by the way are taking six years to get through. And people go to the first hearing, and --
LEMON: You're saying you're willing to work with the president on these policies, to change them moving forward?
DONALDS: The president actually has to make border changes. He's the only person that can do that, and he's not doing it.
LEMON: You're willing to work with him to do that?
DONALDS: If they're credible changes, of course!
