During a live interview with New Jersey Governor Phil Murphy, on NBC’s Today show Monday morning, a heckler could be heard screaming at the Democratic politician, calling him a “dictator” and “hypocrite” for his coronavirus shutdown policies. It got so bad, co-host Savannah Guthrie was forced to acknowledge “this rage that people feel about businesses not being opened fast enough.”
After mentioning “really strong feelings on all sides” when it came to reopening the economy amid the pandemic, Guthrie highlighted: “You had to go to court, actually, a fight with Asbury Park. The local town wanted to have indoor dining....In the end, you won in court, but the larger battle is going on literally as we speak. There are business owners who are enraged that this reopening hasn’t happened sooner.”
Murphy began to argue: “Yeah. I mean, listen, you mentioned this, we were the second hardest hit state in the America, over 12,600 fatalities. The virus indoors is far more lethal than when it’s outdoors.” As he spoke, a man could be heard yelling at the Governor: “He’s a dictator! He’s a traitor! He’s a hypocrite!”
The Democrat continued: “So we have to be very careful about opening up things that are inside, lack of ventilation, close proximity....There’s no question we’ll get there. We’re just not ready yet.”
In her next question, Guthrie pointed out the shouting: “I don’t know if people can hear, we have a heckler who’s yelling about this very thing.... I mean, this rage that people feel about businesses not being opened fast enough, it’s real.” She then questioned glaring contradictions of the reopening: “Why aren’t you moving more quickly? You know, a lot of business owners say it’s kind of arbitrary. Why can I walk into Home Depot with 100 people, but I can’t go have a meal?”
Murphy tried to downplay the upset resident: “Yeah, I mean, this guy deserves to say what he wants to say. But honestly, overwhelmingly, the majority of folks get it.”
Pointing out some of the Governor’s hypocrisy, Guthrie noted: “We’ve seen the protests that have gone on. You yourself attended one of the protests, you then changed the rules so that outdoor gatherings of more than 100 people could go on. But, again, some business owners see a disconnect there, they see a double standard.”
He tried to justify the distinction: “Listen, outside versus inside, I can’t say it enough. The other thing about protesting, we completely respect the rights of folks to protest, but wear a mask, stay six feet apart if you can, and get tested. All of which is essential here.”
Guthrie’s next couple questions focused on whether Murphy would be willing to “close it up again” if there was a rise in coronavirus cases. He responded: “I hope that if we see this thing, God forbid, come back again, we can surround it, drive it back into the ground.”
Wrapping up the exchange, Guthrie pressed the Governor on whether he supported the radical “defund the police” movement:
What an interesting time we live in. We’re facing a pandemic, and then, also this moment of great reckoning and upheaval with regard to racial injustice in this country. As I mentioned, you attended a protest with your family. There’s a movement afoot to defund the police. Do you support defunding the police?...when the slogan is “defund the police,” is that something you can support?
One wonders if some of Guthrie’s pointed questions about the shutdown would have occurred if not for that citizen calling out Murphy in real time.
Here is a transcript of the June 15 interview:
7:36 AM ET
SAVANNAH GUTHRIE: Governor, good morning, it’s good to have you here.
GOV. PHIL MURPHY [D-NJ]: Great to be with you, Savannah.
GUTHRIE: We’ll get into the details in a moment, and there are some really strong feelings on all sides of this. But just symbolically, what does it mean to start having the boardwalk and the Jersey Shore open again?
MURPHY: It’s a big day. I mean, this is a big day. We’re doing outdoor dining today. All retail, not just essential. Day care is opening. We’ve got barber shops and hair salons next week. We’re slowly but surely getting back on our feet.
GUTHRIE: You had to go to court, actually, a fight with Asbury Park. The local town wanted to have indoor dining. Restaurants starting last weekend. In the end, you won in court, but the larger battle is going on literally as we speak. There are business owners who are enraged that this reopening hasn’t happened sooner.
MURPHY: Yeah. I mean, listen, you mentioned this, we were the second hardest hit state in the America, over 12,600 fatalities. The virus indoors is far more lethal than when it’s outdoors.
HECKLER: He’s a dictator! He’s a traitor! He’s a hypocrite!
MURPHY: So we have to be very careful about opening up things that are inside, lack of ventilation, close proximity. We’ll get there. There’s no question we’ll get there. We’re just not ready yet.
GUTHRIE: Yeah, I mean, look, I don’t know if people can hear, we have a heckler who’s yelling about this very thing.
MURPHY: Yup.
GUTHRIE: I mean, this rage that people feel about businesses not being opened fast enough, it’s real. Why aren’t you moving more quickly? You know, a lot of business owners say it’s kind of arbitrary. Why can I walk into Home Depot with 100 people, but I can’t go have a meal?
MURPHY: Yeah, I mean, this guy deserves to say what he wants to say. But honestly, overwhelmingly, the majority of folks get it. We make the decisions, they’re not arbitrary. They’re based on facts and data. You know, we’ve driven down the positivity rate, the rate at which the virus spreads are way down, probably leading the nation right now. We’ve just got to keep it down. And again, inside is a lot harder than outside. But boy, with this weather, this is as good as it gets. We’re opening back up and it feels great.
GUTHRIE: Have you thought about picking up the pace of reopening?
MURPHY: I think we’re comfortable where we are. I mean, I just don’t think we can responsibly go faster. We’ll get there on indoor dining. Casinos, which are a huge part of the economy, obviously, in our state, in Atlantic City. We’ll get there, but we’ve got to do it responsibly.
GUTHRIE: We’ve seen the protests that have gone on. You yourself attended one of the protests, you then changed the rules so that outdoor gatherings of more than 100 people could go on. But, again, some business owners see a disconnect there, they see a double standard.
MURPHY: Listen, outside versus inside, I can’t say it enough. The other thing about protesting, we completely respect the rights of folks to protest, but wear a mask, stay six feet apart if you can, and get tested. All of which is essential here.
GUTHRIE: Your neighboring state, New York, the governor said yesterday he would consider shutting it down again, closing up businesses again because he received, in the state, 25,000 complaints about businesses and individuals not sticking to the rules, not doing the social distancing.
MURPHY: Yeah.
GUTHRIE: We saw those crowded scenes in New York. If it comes to that in this state, are you willing to go backwards there? Would you close it up again?
MURPHY: You have to leave that on the table as a consideration. I hope to God we don’t have to. We now test more than any other state in America. We’re building up our contact tracing and isolation plans. I hope that if we see this thing, God forbid, come back again, we can surround it, drive it back into the ground. But we have to leave all the options on the table.
GUTHRIE: How worried are you about a surge? I mean, either from the protests or other gatherings? We saw, you know, Memorial Day and the in the Sun Belt, so many states are seeing that surge now.
MUPRHY: Yeah, I’m less worried about the outdoor stuff, honestly. I’m far more worried when we get inside. My gut tells me, and again, I’m practicing without a license, that this will come back. But God willing, it will come back in spurts that we can – with testing and contact tracing – surround it, and push it back down.
GUTHRIE: What an interesting time we live in. We’re facing a pandemic, and then, also this moment of great reckoning and upheaval with regard to racial injustice in this country. As I mentioned, you attended a protest with your family. There’s a movement afoot to defund the police. Do you support defunding the police?
MURPHY: Actually, we attended two protests, and it was extraordinary. One a community overwhelmingly of color and one a community overwhelmingly white. Here’s what I believe. This is a mosaic with lots of pieces in it. We have to build up, we’ve been investing since day one in the state, since we got here, in education, health care, social services. And we’ll continue to do that. We need to obviously continue to deepen the relationship between law enforcement and our communities. We’ve made a lot of progress. God knows as a state and as a country, we still have a long way to go.
GUTHRIE: But to put a fine point on it, when the slogan is “defund the police,” is that something you can support?
MURPHY: I don’t think it’s a black and white question. I’ve always thought that this is, again, what are your priorities? What’s your budget say, not just your words, but where are you putting your money? And we believe in lifting communities up and deepening engagement between law enforcement and our communities. And we’ll continue to stand for that.
GUTHRIE: You had dinner with the President on Friday night in Bedminster here in New Jersey. You’ve said before you don’t pull your punches with him. We know he doesn’t pull his punches. What did you guys talk about?
MURPHY: We talked a lot about coronavirus and our economic recovery. We talked a lot about infrastructure. The President approved a huge project for this state and this region, the so-called Portal North Bridge, which has been sitting there waiting to get replaced since 1910, believe it or not. And he’s put his name on that. And that’s a huge step, 15,000 jobs in New Jersey. So that was the bulk of our conversation. .
GUTHRIE: Governor Murphy, thank you so much.
