In an interview with Bernie Sanders on Monday’s NBC Today, co-host Savannah Guthrie worried that the Democratic presidential candidate’s criticism of frontrunner Hillary Clinton was similar to Donald Trump’s latest line of attack: “Donald Trump is test driving a new nickname for Hillary Clinton, ‘crooked Hillary.’ Maybe he uses fewer words, but have you been making the same argument against her?”
She continued: “Essentially saying, because she accepts money from big corporate interests, she can't possibly adequately or ethically represent the middle class?” Sanders replied: “Donald Trump is very brilliant by coming up with statements that you guys respond to. That’s an ugly statement. What I have said is that – regarding Secretary Clinton – what I have said is we have a corrupt campaign finance system in which billionaires and the wealthy – ”
Guthrie cut him off: “But you’ve gone further. You have said – you have said that she accepts this money from Wall Street or big banks or fossil fuels and that, that affects her judgment....Well, wouldn’t that be crooked?”
Sanders deflected with left-wing talking points: “No, it – in that case, the entire United States government is crooked. We have a corrupt system....So I'm going to fight as hard as I can as president to overturn this disastrous Citizens United Supreme Court decision. I believe in public funding of elections, I don't want to see big money buy elections.”
Guthrie followed up: “You're not making Donald Trump's argument for him against Hillary?” Again Sanders denied the charge.
Earlier in the interview, fellow co-host Matt Lauer surprisingly challenged Sanders from the right on national defense:
Another story in the news, it was actually on the front page of The New York Times yesterday, concerns over what they're calling a new Cold War arms race. The United States, China, Russia, all developing the next generation of nuclear weapons. They're smaller, they’re less powerful, and they're much more accurate. It's going to cost trillions of dollars to keep pace. If you're President of the United States, do you endorse the development of that next generation of weapons?...Would you allow the Russians and the Chinese to outspend us in that area?...Just want to make sure though, if they're spending trillions to develop that generation of weapons, would you follow suit?
Sanders argued: “If I'm elected president, we will do everything that we can to move toward a non-nuclear proliferation treaty....The goal is to move to get rid of nuclear weapons, not to get into an arms race. We have other more important things to spend our money on.”
Here is a full transcript of the April 18 interview:
7:12 AM ET
MATT LAUER: Senator Sanders joins us now live in studio. Senator, nice to see you, good morning.
BERNIE SANDERS: Good morning.
[ON-SCREEN HEADLINE: Bernie Sanders Speaks Out; On NY Primary, Clinton Money & Path to Nomination]
LAUER: It’s always interesting to watch you watch a piece like that, as we cover you. For all of your recent successes, what is it, eight out of nine?
SANDERS: We’ve won eight out of the last nine caucuses and primaries, right.
LAUER: Last contests. But still, all the pundits are saying, you know what, tomorrow is make or break. That if you lose here in New York, that it basically becomes impossible for you to outright win the nomination.
SANDERS: Matt, is that what the pundits are saying?
LAUER: That is.
SANDERS: Well, the pundits told me that when we began this campaign there was no chance that we would go anywhere. Well, here we are, having won eight out of the nine last caucuses and primaries, defeating Hillary Clinton in some of the national polls that we've seen in the last couple of weeks. And in fact, beating Donald Trump by 15 or 20 points in general match-ups.
LAUER: Tell me if I’m reading anything wrong? All the polling I'm seeing going into tomorrow's primary here in New York has you at least ten points down, up to 17 points down. You have information I don't have?
SANDERS: Those are the public polls. But the bottom line is, let's look at the real poll tomorrow. Generally speaking, polling has underestimated how we do in elections. We were 25 points down in Michigan, we ended up winning Michigan. But the main point is, I think, we have a message that is resonating all over this country. We have enthusiasm. We have energy. People understand, it's too late for establishment politics and economics. They want real change in this country. They want leadership to stand up to the billionaire class. That’s what we are providing.
SAVANNAH GUTHRIE: Let’s talk about an item in the news, late yesterday you came out in support of legislation that would allow 9/11 families to sue the Saudi government. This is a bill that the Obama administration opposes, because it is concerned that it would open up Americans and the American government to liability, other countries suing America. Is that not a concern?
SANDERS: It is a concern, but there’s another concern. And that is, I think it's important to have a full investigation and an understanding of the role – the possible role of the Saudi government in 9/11. There was, as you know, some 28 pages that have not yet classified – information that has not been released. We also asked for the release of that information. As you may know, the Saudi government has been a major proponent of Wahhabism, which is an extreme fundamentalist version of Islam, which is being taught all over the world. It is a very destructive religion. And I think it's important we do understand the role that the Saudis may have played.
LAUER: Another story in the news, it was actually on the front page of The New York Times yesterday, concerns over what they're calling a new Cold War arms race. The United States, China, Russia, all developing the next generation of nuclear weapons. They're smaller, they’re less powerful, and they're much more accurate. It's going to cost trillions of dollars to keep pace. If you're President of the United States, do you endorse the development of that next generation of weapons?
SANDERS: If I'm elected president, we will do everything that we can to move toward a non-nuclear proliferation treaty. Look, when you have countries –
LAUER: Would you allow the Russians and the Chinese to outspend us in that area?
SANDERS: “Would I allow them to outspend us?” I wouldn’t phrase that way. I think you gotta sit down with these people. Russia has enormous economic problems. China has enormous economic problems. Guess what? We have enormous economic problems. A lot better way to spend money on healthcare, on education, infrastructure, than on nuclear weapons.
LAUER: Just want to make sure though, if they're spending trillions to develop that generation of weapons, would you follow suit?
SANDERS: The goal is to move to get rid of nuclear weapons, not to get into an arms race. We have other more important things to spend our money on.
GUTHRIE: Let's turn back to politics for a second. As you saw in the piece, Donald Trump is test driving a new nickname for Hillary Clinton, “crooked Hillary.” Maybe he uses fewer words, but have you been making the same argument against her? Essentially saying, because she accepts money from big corporate interests, she can't possibly adequately or ethically represent the middle class?
SANDERS: Donald Trump is very brilliant by coming up with statements that you guys respond to. That’s an ugly statement. What I have said is that – regarding Secretary Clinton – what I have said is we have a corrupt campaign finance system in which billionaires and the wealthy –
GUTHRIE: But you’ve gone further. You have said – you have said that she accepts this money from Wall Street or big banks or fossil fuels and that, that affects her judgment.
SANDERS: Yeah, well, of course it does. Why do think –
GUTHRIE: Well, wouldn’t that be crooked?
SANDERS: No, it – in that case, the entire United States government is crooked. We have a corrupt system. I'm very proud that we are doing it differently. Our average contribution is $27 and we have received over seven million individual campaign contributions. That’s what’s different about our campaign, we don't get money from big-money interests. So I'm going to fight as hard as I can as president to overturn this disastrous Citizens United Supreme Court decision. I believe in public funding of elections, I don't want to see big money buy elections.
GUTHRIE: You're not making Donald Trump's argument for him against Hillary?
SANDERS: No.
LAUER: Senator Bernie Sanders. Senator, big week for you, I appreciate your time this morning, we do. Thanks very much.
SANDERS: Thank you very much.
