In an exclusive interview with Mitt Romney on Friday’s NBC Today, co-host Matt Lauer labeled the 2012 Republican presidential nominee as both a “traitor” and a “hero” to his party: “Depending who you listen to this morning, Governor, you are either a traitor who proves that the establishment of the Republican Party is so afraid they can't control Donald Trump, that they'll do anything to stop him. Or you're a hero who has finally put this race into perspective.”
After Romney explained his reasons for denouncing Donald Trump in a Thursday speech, Lauer demanded: “Experts are calling this an unprecedented event in modern political history in this country. A former nominee of a party, in a scathing takedown of the favorite to become the next nominee....Do you think your speech will matter?”
Minutes later, Lauer worried that opposition to Trump becoming the GOP nominee was somehow anti-democratic: “You are calling for nothing less than a suppress Donald Trump movement that will lead to Cleveland and a contested convention....how are these millions of voters, some of whom have come to the process in the party for the first time because of Donald Trump, how are they going to feel to have put Donald Trump in the lead and watch the establishment wing of the party pull the rug out from under him?”
Romney explained:
Well, first of all, there are a lot of people, establishment or not, who agree with me that Donald Trump should not be President of the United States and don't want to see him become the Republican nominee. Right now it's about 65% of Republicans who’d like someone else. So that's the way politics works, you behind the people you support, you fight for them, and the person who wins through the process is the one who becomes your nominee.
Lauer wrapped up the exchange by fretting over the “tone” of the Republican race: “These candidates have called each other losers, liars, sweaters, chokers. They have made fun of each other's appearance, the size of their ears, the size of their hands. You read between the lines. Is there one person running on the Republican side, in your opinion, who has been the biggest adult and the most presidential?”
Here is a full transcript of the March 4 interview:
7:06 AM ET
MATT LAUER: Mitt Romney is with us now exclusively. Governor, good to see you, thanks for joining us.
MITT ROMNEY: Thanks, Matt, good to be with you.
[ON-SCREEN HEADLINE: Mitt Romney One-on-One; Fmr. GOP Nominee on Fight to Stop Trump]
LAUER: Depending who you listen to this morning, Governor, you are either a traitor who proves that the establishment of the Republican Party is so afraid they can't control Donald Trump, that they'll do anything to stop him. Or you're a hero who has finally put this race into perspective. For the people who think you're a hero, they're asking a question, and that is, why did you wait so long? Tell me about the timing.
ROMNEY: Well, I've wanted to be involved in the campaign, if you will, as a bit of a referee. And when there were some foul balls, be able to call them and see if I can't keep people, if you will, guided on the path to becoming our next president. But the time came when Donald Trump's outrage had reached such a level that I simply had to speak out. I mean, I – you get to the point where you say your grandkids are gonna say to you, “Papa, what did you do to stop Donald Trump?” And I had to finally get out and speech.
LAUER: Experts are calling this an unprecedented event in modern political history in this country. A former nominee of a party, in a scathing takedown of the favorite to become the next nominee. But this isn't a typical frontrunner. This is a guy who has survived moments in this campaign that would have derailed anybody else. Do you think your speech will matter?
ROMNEY: I don't know if it will or not. But I know I couldn't stand silent anymore. You can't have someone whose policies are so far from the views of my party become our nominee. And someone who has demonstrated over time that he doesn't have the temperament or the personal qualities to be a great president.
LAUER: You said he's dangerous for the country, dangerous for working Americans. You attacked him on his economic policies, his foreign policy, his personality, which you call his third grade antics, his business acumen. Here's a quote, “But wait, you say, isn't he a huge business success that knows what he's talking about? No, he isn't. No, he doesn't. His bankruptcies have crushed small businesses and the men and women who worked for them. He inherited his business. He didn't create it.” Let me take you back four years, alright, and listen to this.
ROMNEY: Donald Trump has shown an extraordinary ability to understand how our economy works to create jobs for the American people. I spent my life in the private sector, not quite as successful as this guy, but successful nonetheless.
LAUER: That was four years ago, same two guys, Donald Trump and Mitt Romney.
ROMNEY: Oh’ he’s a successful guy, he's made a lot of money, but he hasn't been uniformly successful and he’s far from a business genius. Look, Trump University, Trump Steaks, Trump Mortgage, Trump Vitamin Company. One after the other, failure after failure. So just because he's made a lot of money – one, you don't measure your life by how much money you make – but just because he’s made a lot of money doesn't mean that his economic policies are right for America.
LAUER: But the people who are angry at you this morning, Governor Romney, are saying, “Wait a second, he willingly welcomed the endorsement of Donald Trump four years ago, even though he was already knee-deep in the birther movement and had made other incendiary comments. Why go 180 degrees on the guy now?
ROMNEY: Well, first of all, I was seeking his endorsement, now he's seeking mine, that’s very different. A lot of people endorsed me who I wouldn't endorse for president. And secondly, a lot has happened in the last year. And frankly, had I heard him say the things I’ve heard him say now, I wouldn't have welcomed his endorsement. When he calls George W. Bush a liar. When he says that Putin is a strong and powerful leader, popular with his people. When he mocks a reporter because of their disability. When he attacks women based on their looks or their menstrual cycle. You’ve basically got a guy that is out of the kind of realm that I’d want to have supporting me.
LAUER: Did you beg him for his endorsement four years ago?
ROMNEY: I was welcoming his endorsement, I was happy to have it. I was looking for as many endorsements as I could possibly have. But when it comes to who I would support for president, there are a lot of folks who endorsed me I would not want to see as president.
LAUER: You laid out a plan in your speech yesterday. You said if the other candidates can find common ground, I believe we can nominate a person who can win the general election and who will represent the values and policies of conservatism.” You went on, you said, “Given the current delegate selection process, this means that I would vote for Marco Rubio in Florida, for John Kasich in Ohio, and for Ted Cruz or whichever one of the two contenders has the best chance of beating Mr. Trump in a given state.” You are calling for nothing less than a suppress Donald Trump movement that will lead to Cleveland and a contested convention.
ROMNEY: Well, there’s no question I'm going to do everything within the normal political bounds to make sure that we don't nominate Donald Trump. I think he would be terribly unfit for office. I don't think he has the temperament to be president. And so, I want to see one of the other three become the nominee. Now by the way, after March 15th, I think you'll see it narrowed down to one or two contenders opposing Donald Trump and I intend to support one of them.
LAUER: But leading up to March 15th, do you want Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz to back off and let John Kasich win Ohio. Do you want John Kasich and Ted Cruz to back off and let Marco Rubio win Florida? And if we get to Cleveland and a contested convention, how are these millions of voters, some of whom have come to the process in the party for the first time because of Donald Trump, how are they going to feel to have put Donald Trump in the lead and watch the establishment wing of the party pull the rug out from under him?
ROMNEY: Well, first of all, there are a lot of people, establishment or not, who agree with me that Donald Trump should not be President of the United States and don't want to see him become the Republican nominee. Right now it's about 65% of Republicans who’d like someone else. So that's the way politics works, you behind the people you support, you fight for them, and the person who wins through the process is the one who becomes your nominee.
LAUER: You didn't endorse anybody yesterday. That's also angered a lot of people, they say it can't just be about anybody but Trump. Why didn't you endorse?
ROMNEY: Well, three people on the stage who all endorsed me and are friends. Actually four, including Donald Trump. And I want to see how they do on March 15th –
LAUER: Is he a friend of yours?
ROMNEY: You know, we get along. I doubt we're going to spend a lot of time together now. But we're going to see on March 15th, I think, a narrowing of the field. And at that point, I wouldn't be surprised if I endorse one of those guys.
LAUER: Not endorsing someone now, Governor, have you left the door open just wide enough for you to ride through it on a white horse? Do you want to be considered as an alternative to save this party if it gets down to a contested convention in July?
ROMNEY: No, no. The people who can save this party are Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio or John Kasich. We're gonna get a sense within a few days of who that person might be. But I'm going to be supporting that person and doing everything I can to make sure they become the nominee of the party.
LAUER: I'm going to be a little stubborn on this. Under any circumstances, Governor, if large numbers of people in the establishment wing of the Republican Party come to you and say, “Mitt, you’re the guy who can save the day,” under any circumstances would you be a part of this presidential race as a candidate?
ROMNEY: There are no circumstances I can foresee where that would possibly happen. But let me say something else.
LAUER: “I can foresee.”
ROMNEY: No reasonable scenario I can imagine.
LAUER: Just slam the door on it. Close the door. Unambiguous, you will not run for president.
ROMNEY: I’m not running for president and I won't run for president. But let me tell you this, the term “establishment” is a real mistake. There are mainstream Republicans who believe in conservative values. There are people, whether established or not, there are people who have been around the political world who have watched what's going on. What's happening with Donald Trump is recognizing people are angry, as they should be, but he's channeling that anger in a way that will not help working families. There are other Republicans who believe in the principles that will actually lift people put of poverty and create good jobs for the American people.
LAUER: Last question, the tone of this race. These candidates have called each other losers, liars, sweaters, chokers. They have made fun of each other's appearance, the size of their ears, the size of their hands. You read between the lines. Is there one person running on the Republican side, in your opinion, who has been the biggest adult and the most presidential?
ROMNEY: Well, it's very clear to point to the person who’s been the smallest adult, and that's Donald Trump. I mean, he has taken personal, physical attributes –
LAUER: How about the other way?
ROMNEY: I'll go both ways. Personal physical attributes and made fun of people on that basis throughout the campaign. And some of the candidates are saying, you know what, I gotta return fire. You can’t sit here – I mean, last night he kept pointing at Marco Rubio and saying, “Little Marco. Little Marco.” I mean, this is a new low in presidential politics. It's simply wrong. I think John Kasich is saying, “Hey, look, I'm not going to do that.” But recognize that if you want to become the nominee, you've got to prosecute the opposition as well as lift yourself.
LAUER: Would you vote for Hillary Clinton or sit out voting, as opposed to voting for Donald Trump?
ROMNEY: Well, I wouldn't vote for Donald Trump, and I wouldn't vote for Hillary Clinton. I intend to vote for our nominee, I expect that nominee to be a real conservative and real Republican.
LAUER: Governor Mitt Romney, I really appreciate you coming in this morning.
ROMNEY: Thank you, Matt. Good to be with you.
LAUER: Thank you very much.
