During Monday’s White House press briefing, press secretary Sean Spicer found himself in heated arguments with NBC News correspondents Peter Alexander and Hallie Jackson over whether the American people can “trust” President Donald Trump and the legitimacy of the Congressional Budget Office (CBO).
Representing the NBC News seat in the Brady Briefing Room, Alexander went first by again rehashing whether the President believes Friday’s jobs numbers and when Spicer responded that they are real, Alexander changed subjects.
“When should Americans trust the President? Should they trust the President? Is it phoney or real when he says that President Obama was wiretapping him,” Alexander wondered.
Spicer replied with what many have gleaned as a walk back on Trump’s tweets about then-President Obama wiretapping Trump and his team: “I think there’s two things that are important about what he said. I think recognizing — he doesn't really think President Obama went up and tapped his phone personally.”
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Alexander clearly had this all played out, going next to the CBO:
ALEXANDER: So, on the same topic, on the CBO report, did the President think it was real then and is phoney now?
SPICER: What CBO report?
ALEXANDER: On the expectation the CBO report is coming out about which you said “if you're looking to the CBO for accuracy, you're looking at the wrong place.” Three years ago, you said the CBO report that it confirms ObamaCare is bad for the economy. So, the question —
SPICER: It was bad for the economy.
ALEXANDER: — okay. So, the bottom line is — that question is — was it real then
SPICER: No, no. But —
ALEXANDER: — and now phoney as you’ve said it's not the place to find accuracy.
Spicer hit back by pointing out the disconnect between what CBO predicted for ObamaCare enrollees in 2016 and what it ended up being (10.4 million versus four million) to the tune of less than half.
“The only point, Peter is to make sure people understand, if you're looking to get bulls-eye accurate prediction as to where it's going, the CBO was off by more than half last time. So, it's not — this is not about what my understanding or my belief of the CBO is. The last time they did this, they were wildly off and the number keeps declining,” Spicer added.
Instead of debating Spicer on policy, Alexander switched back to Trump’s credibility:
ALEXANDER: I guess the question is, when can we trust the President when he says something’s phoney or when he says it’s real?
SPICER: Hold on. You asked a question about CBO and now conflating it with a question about the President. The question is —
ALEXANDER: No, no. I asked you about wiretapping first and then we went onto CBO. The question in simple terms is, when he says something is — when he says something, can we trust that it's real —
SPICER: Yes.
ALEXANDER: — or should we assume it's phoney?
SPICER: Just that it’s real. Absolutely.
Alexander and Spicer continued the banter for a few more moments before Spicer moved onto another reporter. Thanks to NBC being able to have a second seat to represent MSNBC, Hallie Jackson eventually received a turn.
She used the first portion of her time on Trump’s wiretapping tweets but shifted gears around 2:02 p.m. Eastern to the CBO and Trump’s legitimacy. Jackson pressed Spicer if he thinks “CBO numbers [are] legitimate or not” and Spicer responded that his opinion doesn’t matters.
Spicer ruled that it’s the President’s opinion that matters (which is up for debate in the CBO’s case) and when Jackson interrupted Spicer, he unloaded at Alexander and Jackson for their “NBC thing” in the briefing. Immediately, it left Jackson with an incredulous look:
Hold on, Hallie. Hold up. You guys have like an NBC thing. Let me — let me answer the question. I think when you look at whatever that number is, whether it's budget projections over or whatever, I think there's a track record that goes along a lot of times with whether or not the projections in certain areas, whether it's unemployment, budgetary numbers, whatever our —what the track record is. All I'm suggesting to you is very clearly that the numbers they did the last time they did health care were off by more than 50 percent when it came to the number of people insured. That's not my interpretation. That's a fact and I think it's important for people to understand the differences.
Here’s the relevant portions of the transcript from March 13's White House Press Briefing:
White House Press Briefing
March 13, 2017
1:50 p.m. Eastern
PETER ALEXANDER: You spoke on behalf of the President quoting him on the jobs report on Friday. You said they may have been phoney in the past but it’s very real now. I guess the question is —
SEAN SPICER: They are very real now.
ALEXANDER: They are very real now. The question was —
SPICER: Just want to make sure you get right.
ALEXANDER: — when should Americans trust the President? Should they trust the President? Is it phoney or real when he says that President Obama was wiretapping him?
SPICER: Well, again, let's get back. I think there’s two things that are important about what he said. I think recognizing — he doesn't really think President Obama went up and tapped his phone personally.
(....)
ALEXANDER: So, on the same topic, on the CBO report, did the President think it was real then and is phoney now?
SPICER: What CBO report?
ALEXANDER: On the expectation the CBO report is coming out about which you said “if you're looking to the CBO for accuracy, you're looking at the wrong place.” Three years ago, you said the CBO report that it confirms ObamaCare is bad for the economy. So, the question —
SPICER: It was bad for the economy.
ALEXANDER: — okay. So, the bottom line is — that question is — was it real then
SPICER: No, no. But —
ALEXANDER: — and now phoney as you’ve said it's not the place to find accuracy.
SPICER: So, let's look at the CBO's projection. It said — their projection on Obamacare was that, in 2016, would have four million people on it. The actual figure is 10.4 million people. Less than half the number of people that it predicted would be insured were on it and it's declining. So, the only point, Peter is to make sure people understand, if you're looking to get bulls-eye accurate prediction as to where it's going, the CBO was off by more than half last time. So, it's not — this is not about what my understanding or my belief of the CBO is. The last time they did this, they were wildly off and the number keeps declining. And so, the question that needs to get asked right now, or, frankly, the awareness that needs to be brought up right now is that if you're going to look at a number tonight, have you to look through the scope of whether or not that number is — now, it was bad for the economy. That was right. You can glean that in terms of the direction, what the impact that it had. But as far as their numbers go, on the number of people they predicted back then would be covered now, they were off by more than half.
ALEXANDER: I guess the question is, when can we trust the president when he says something’s phoney or when he says it’s real?
SPICER: Hold on. You asked a question about CBO and now conflating it with a question about the President.
(....)
SPICER: Peter, let me answer the question.
ALEXANDER: I'm listening.
SPICER: You're not. Let me answer it. The bottom line is the percentage of people who are unemployed varies widely by who you're asking and the way you do the analysis of who's actually in the workforce. The number of people who are working and receiving a paycheck is a number that we can look at. Secondly, when you're asking about the validity of the CBO report, Again, I refer to you the CBO itself. The number they issued that would be insured in 2016 was 26 million people. The actual number is 10 — excuse me, 24 million. The actual number is 10.4. That's not a question of our credibility. It's a question of theirs. Do you have anything more?
ALEXANDER: But the bottomline is, the question that you still have not answered is —
SPICER: I have answered.
ALEXANDER: — can you say affirmatively, whenever the President says, we can trust to be real?
SPICER: If he's not joking, of course. But in that case — hold on. But no, no, you're asking — hold on —
ALEXANDER: Let me start over again with joking —
SPICER: No, no, but your point is — every time that he speaks authoritatively that he speaks that he's speaking as president of the United States.
ALEXANDER: 3 to 5 — more than 3 million Americans voted illegally.
SPICER: Yes and he still believes that.
