Kristen Welker, NBC News White House Correspondent, served as fill-in host on MSNBC’s Andrea Mitchell Reports Thursday afternoon and took the opportunity to badger Congressman Peter King (R-N.Y.) over the Democratic Senate Intelligence Committee report on the CIA’s use of enhanced interrogation techniques on suspected terrorists.
Speaking to her Republican guest, Welker asked “some of the enhanced techniques that the report found included extended waterboarding, sleep deprivation, rectal rehydration, slapping and stress positions. How is that not torture Congressman?”
Despite Congressman King maintaining that “the Justice Department clearly said it was not torture” the NBC reporter continued to pressure the congressman to concede that the CIA did torture detainees:
But Congressman [King], when you hear about this rectal feeding, when you hear that one of the detainees froze to death, in your gut, doesn't that strike you as torture?
As the interview progressed, the NBC reporter continued to hit the Republican on his support for the CIA's interrogation techniques:
The report also found that no actionable intelligence came from those tactics. Do you dispute that claim? Do you have any proof that suggests that those interrogation tactics led to actionable intelligence and may have led to finding and killing Bin Laden, for example?
For his part, the New York Republican eagerly pushed back at Welker's line of questioning:
For instance, Leon Panetta, who was President Obama's appointee as CIA Director, said that information gained from the interrogations definitely led to finding Bin Laden. Now, there is never one piece of intelligence that does it all, but that certainly fit into the mosaic and it was able to find it down to [sic] who was the courier.
While Welker eagerly hit King over his defense of the CIA’s interrogation program, the NBC reporter chose to conduct a friendly softball interview with Jameel Jaffer of the ACLU immediately following her discussion with the Republican congressman.
Below are a list of the “questions” Welker asked the liberal ACLU attorney:
I want to start right there, get your reaction to what you heard from Congressman Peter King. What is your reaction?
--
Well Jameel, as you know, we’re going to hear from CIA Director John Brennan in just a short while. He is going to defend this program. He is the CIA Director. What do you say to that? What do you want to hear from him this afternoon?
--
But you expect him to defend it, right? But you expect him to defend it. I mean, he has so far defended this. In fact he has split with the president on this point.
--
Jameel, let me just jump in because we only have about a minute left and I want to get you on two more points. One this question of moral authority. The president has said that exposing this is a part of restoring the United States’ moral authority and yet the drone program has expanded under the Obama administration, that’s a program that has killed civilians. They defend it by saying that they do everything possible to try to prevent any civilian deaths. But is there a contradiction there?
--
To be clear, you’re saying you want them to reopen the [CIA] investigation, you want to see the Justice department reopen the investigation and potentially prosecute people?
See relevant transcript below.
MSNBC’s Andrea Mitchell Reports
December 11, 2014
KRISTEN WELKER: Congressman [Peter King] let's get to the torture report. I want to ask you about some comments that you made. You said that what happened wasn’t torture despite the Senate intelligence report which said that it was. You said “We’re not talking about anyone being burned stabbed or cut or anything like that. We’re talking about people being made to stand in awkward positions.” And yet Congressman, some of the enhanced techniques that the report found included extended waterboarding, sleep deprivation, rectal rehydration, slapping and stress positions. How is that not torture Congressman?
PETER KING: Well, the Justice Department clearly said it was not torture. People like General Hayden, who I have the greatest respect for, they made sure that whatever was done to not violate the torture statute, it could have been rough treatment, but there’s a difference between that and torture. And obviously you--
WELKER: But Congressman [King], when you hear about this rectal feeding, when you hear that one of the detainees froze to death, in your gut, doesn't that strike you as torture?
KING: Well, first of all, on the person who died from hypothermia, that was fully investigated by several prosecutors, all who have said that there was no criminal intent. In fact that was early on in Afghanistan. It was after that happened that the CIA on its own set in motion the actual program which didn't involve waterboarding. That was done in the early days, it was done and it was obviously an accident and again it’s been investigated by a number of special prosecutors and lawyers all of whom said that it was not criminal intent. It was an accident and it occurred in a brief period of time. And it was after that that all of the measures went into effect to protect the detainees in the future.
As far as the waterboarding, I don't consider that torture in the way it was carried out. And I will say this very clearly that if you are faced with 2,000 or 3,000 Americans dying and someone’s head being held under water, I would say hold is head under water. If we had captured Mohammed Atta on September 10, if it involved waterboarding him to save the 3,000 people who were burned to death and had to jump out of windows, I’d say go ahead and do it.
WELKER: And yet Congressman, the report also found that no actionable intelligence came from those tactics. Do you dispute that claim? Do you have any proof that suggests that those interrogation tactics led to actionable intelligence and may have led to finding and killing Bin Laden, for example?
KING: Well, for instance, Leon Panetta, who was President Obama's appointee as CIA Director, said that information gained from the interrogations definitely led to finding Bin Laden. Now, there is never one piece of intelligence that does it all, but that certainly fit into the mosaic and it was able to find it down to [sic] who was the courier. So yes--.
WELKER: And Congressman, I don't want to cut you off, but we are running out of time. I just want to finally get your reaction to something that your colleague John McCain said on the Senate floor. Take a listen and I’ll get your reaction on the other side.
JOHN MCCAIN: I have long believed some of these practices amounted to torture as a reasonable person would define it. Especially, but not only the practice of waterboarding which is a mock execution and an exquisite form of torture. I know from personal experience that the abuse of prisoners will produce more bad than good intelligence. I know that victims of torture will offer intentionally misleading information if they think their captors will believe it.
WELKER: Congressman, what is your response to Senator John McCain, your fellow Republican colleague, who went through similar tactics and calls it torture.
KING: Well it's not similar. What John McCain went through was far worse than anything that the detainees went to. I have great respect for John McCain.
WELKER: But he says it's torture.
KING: And I honestly disagree with John McCain. I have great respect for his opinion, but I disagree with him. I also disagree when he says that they give bad information. Of course they do. Every person who is interrogated gives bad information and you have to sort it out. But it was the fact that, for example, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, did lie on a particular question about the courier. Because he lied, that's how we knew he was covering up for the person and why that person was the courier. All of this is part of a mosaic. The good intelligence, the bad intelligence, it has to be sorted out. There was no magic bullet on this.
WELKER: Alright, Congressman Peter King thank you for joining us on what I know is a very busy day for you there on Capitol Hill. We appreciate it.
KING: Thank you Kristen.
