In an exclusive interview with fired FBI Director James Comey for Wednesday’s NBC Nightly News, anchor Lester Holt commiserated with the former head of the Bureau over Special Counsel Robert Mueller clearing President Trump of collusion with Russia. Holt asked if Comey was “stunned” when he heard the news and later wondered if it was a “surprise” that Mueller couldn’t reach a conclusion on obstruction of justice allegations.
“Well, let’s start with the – what we think are the conclusions of the Mueller report, that on the central question of collusion, it didn’t find it....Were you stunned when you heard that? Did you expect it?,” Holt asked at the top of the exchange. After Comey denied being surprised by the findings, Holt wondered: “Did you go back after hearing this and say, ‘Maybe there wasn’t a there there like I thought’?” Comey assured him: “Oh, no. The investigation had to happen. It would have been irresponsible not to investigate.”
Moments later, Holt seemed to express his own dismay at the results of the nearly two-year investigation: “When you were involved, though, did you think it was going to lead to something? Were you convinced in your mind there was a strong possibility that this campaign, this presidential candidate at the time, was colluding with Russia?” Again, Comey claimed: “I really didn’t know. There was smoke, and enough smoke to justify investigating.”
When pressed by the anchor on whether the report was “a rebuke of you and your leadership and the FBI,” Comey asserted: “No, I actually see it the other way. It establishes, I hope, to all people no matter where they are on the spectrum, that the FBI is not corrupt, not a nest of vipers and spies, but an honest group of people trying to find out what is true.”
Holt warned that Trump was “taking the Mueller news as complete vindication” and coming to that conclusion “based on a pretty bold claim in that four-page letter we got from Attorney General Barr that there was no coordination, there was no collusion.”
Note to journalists: The factual results of an investigation should not be described as a “bold claim” – they are the facts.
“So on that basis, should he be breathing a sigh of relief?,” Holt wondered. Comey rejected the notion: “I don’t know that I read the letter from the Attorney General that way. I read him as saying the Special Counsel didn’t find that the evidence established that there was any conspiracy between an American and the Russians.” Holt hyped the technical distinction: “‘Established’ is the word that you’re honing in on there?”
Moving on, the anchor noted: “Then there’s the obstruction of justice issue and that tweet from Comey just this weekend, standing in the woods, ‘So many questions.’” Holt saw more “stunning” news: “Mr. Mueller decides not to make a judgment on that particular issue. Does that alone surprise you?” Comey agreed:
It does. The purpose of a special counsel is to make sure that the politicals, in this case the Attorney General, doesn’t make the ultimate call on whether the subject of the investigation, the President of the United States, should be held criminally liable for activities that were under investigation.
Holt fretted: “Do you ask yourself why Mueller did not subpoena President Trump? To try to get to the heart of this intent question on obstruction?”
Appearing on the Today show Thursday morning to discuss the interview, Holt was asked by co-host Hoda Kotb: “Lester, did you get the sense when you were sitting with James Comey that he was just disappointed in the results of this?” Holt responded:
Not at all. I mean, he says over and over again that he didn’t expect or wish for any particular outcome, other than for the system to be able to, you know, follow through. And he kept repeating that, that it wasn’t a sense of shock. He did have questions. Some things don’t necessarily make sense to him. But he notes, and we all have to note, that we have not seen, you know, the Mueller report. And so he’s holding – holding his breath on that for now.
If only the media could keep themselves from showing their own disappointment over the Mueller report findings.
Here is a transcript of Holt's questions to Comey in the March 27 interview aired on NBC Nightly News:
7:01 PM ET
LESTER HOLT: Good evening from Washington, where we begin with an NBC News exclusive. James Comey, the former FBI director who began the Russia investigation, and was famously fired by President Trump in what some saw as a move to derail that investigation, is speaking out.
In his first interview since the Mueller investigation was closed, Comey told me he is struggling to understand why Robert Mueller didn’t reach a conclusion on possible obstruction of justice charges. Also saying he has no regrets over pursuing possible collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign despite the report’s findings. And that’s where we began.
Well, let’s start with the – what we think are the conclusions of the Mueller report, that on the central question of collusion, it didn’t find it. You’ve led this investigation from the start. Were you stunned when you heard that? Did you expect it?
(...)
HOLT: But was it good news for the investigation that you started? Did you go back after hearing this and say, “Maybe there wasn’t a there there like I thought”?
JAMES COMEY: Oh, no. The investigation had to happen. It would have been irresponsible not to investigate.
(...)
HOLT: When you were involved, though, did you think it was going to lead to something? Were you convinced in your mind there was a strong possibility that this campaign, this presidential candidate at the time, was colluding with Russia?
COMEY: I really didn’t know. There was smoke, and enough smoke to justify investigating.
(...)
HOLT: Do you take this as a rebuke of you and your leadership and the FBI?
COMEY: No, I actually see it the other way. It establishes, I hope, to all people no matter where they are on the spectrum, that the FBI is not corrupt, not a nest of vipers and spies, but an honest group of people trying to find out what is true.
(...)
HOLT: You go around the channels and you’ll see a lot of people saying the country has been through hell for the last two years and the question of, was it word it? You seem to be saying it was worth it.
COMEY: Yeah. I don’t know what people are thinking saying we shouldn’t have investigated.
(...)
HOLT: The President is taking the Mueller news as complete vindication.
DONALD TRUMP: It was just announced, there was no collusion with Russia.
HOLT: He’s making it based on a pretty bold claim in that four-page letter we got from Attorney General Barr that there was no coordination, there was no collusion. The language was pretty clear, there was nothing between this campaign and Russia. So on that basis, should he be breathing a sigh of relief?
COMEY: I don’t know that I read the letter from the Attorney General that way. I read him as saying the Special Counsel didn’t find that the evidence established that there was any conspiracy between an American and the Russians.
(...).
HOLT: “Established” is the word that you’re honing in on there?
COMEY: Correct.
(...)
HOLT: Then there’s the obstruction of justice issue and that tweet from Comey just this weekend, standing in the woods, “So many questions.”
What are your questions?
COMEY: They’re all about the obstruction piece.
(...)
HOLT: Let’s unpack it here. Mr. Mueller decides not to make a judgment on that particular issue. Does that alone surprise you?
COMEY: It does. The purpose of a special counsel is to make sure that the politicals, in this case the Attorney General, doesn’t make the ultimate call on whether the subject of the investigation, the President of the United States, should be held criminally liable for activities that were under investigation.
(...)
HOLT: But do you think it was Mr. Mueller’s responsibility to come to a determination on that potential charge?
COMEY: It was certainly his charge in general, to investigate fully and come, if he could, to conclusions. I don’t know why he didn’t here.
(...)
HOLT: And on the issue of whether you need an underlying crime to prove obstruction –
Is that a legal principle that you have always understood?
COMEY: No, that’s part of my confusion.
(...)
HOLT: You want this whole thing out?
COMEY: Oh, it has to.
(...)
HOLT: Do you ask yourself why Mueller did not subpoena President Trump? To try to get to the heart of this intent question on obstruction?
COMEY: Yes, I do.
(...)
HOLT: Then there was your firing. May 3rd, 2017, you go before the Senate Judiciary Committee, you talk about a lot of things, the Clinton e-mail server. But you decline to answer questions specifically about evidence of collusion at that point. A couple of days later, you’re fired. A few days after that, I sit down with President Trump –
DONALD TRUMP: In fact, when I decided to just do it, I said to myself, I said, you know, this Russia thing with Trump and Russia is a made-up story.
HOLT: What did you think when you heard that?
COMEY: I thought that’s potentially obstruction of justice. And I hope somebody is gonna look at that.
(...)
HOLT: Up until that point, you had been fired, was it possible that he had fired you simply for the reasons stated in the initial letter, that it was your handling of the Clinton affair and nothing more, nothing less?(...)
HOLT: But he said “the Russia thing,” and you thought it was because of Russia?
COMEY: Because he said so, yeah. So I did, yes.
HOLT: And that, in your mind, would have been obstruction of justice?
COMEY: No, potentially obstruction of justice.
(...)
DONALD TRUMP: What they did, it was a false narrative, it was a terrible thing. We can never let this happen to another president again.
HOLT: The President says this should never, ever again happen to an American president. What do you think about that?
(...)
COMEY: The FBI did what it absolutely had to do. The American people should be glad it’s there and proud of it and the rest is just lying and noise.
HOLT: And about calls from prominent Republicans to open up an investigation into the FBI and Justice Department’s roles in starting the collusion investigation –
COMEY: Look, it would be like going to the dentist. I don't love going to the dentist but I believe in going to the dentist.
(...)
