Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent sat down with ABC’s Martha Raddatz for This Week, to talk tariffs, China, and trade. And Raddatz got more than she bargained for when she tried to corner Bessent with polling numbers.
Watch as Bessent disrupts Raddatz’ bad-faith framing by reminding her how awful coverage of the administration has been:
Treasury @SecScottBessent quickly dismantled Martha Raddatz' question on economic polling, uneven coverage of the markets:
— Jorge Bonilla (@BonillaJL) April 27, 2025
SCOTT BESSENT:"...when I look at the sum of the things that are being published, there was a story ten days ago that says this is the worst April for the… pic.twitter.com/S0IGW4s3jS
MARTHA RADDATZ: And now I am joined by President Trump's Treasury secretary, Scott Bessent. Thanks for joining us this morning, Mr. Secretary. We appreciate it. Let's start with the polls. For the very first time the president's polling numbers on the economy are under water with 53 percent saying it has gotten worse under President Trump, with 72 percent of those in our poll saying it is very or somewhat likely that his economic policies will cause a recession. Your reaction?
SCOTT BESSENT: Well, Martha, I haven't seen the polls. And for the past 35 years, my business was analyzing data. So, I think we’ve probably got to dig down in those.
But what I do know is that Americans are behaving very different than what the surveys say. So, the surveys may say that, but consumers are still spending. So, I prefer to look at what Americans are doing rather than how they're answering pollsters.
RADDATZ: And it doesn't worry you the poll numbers that you have seen?
BESSENT: When I start seeing data to the contrary, then the – we can look at that. But, you know, again, these poll numbers, and also, you know, when I look at the sum of the things that are being published, there was a story ten days ago that said, this is the worst April for the stock market since the Great Depression. Ten days later, the Nasdaq is now up in the month of April. And I haven't seen a story that says, oh, the stock market has biggest bounce back ever. So, I think – I think –
RADDATZ: Well, it certainly – it certainly has gone back and forth.
Let – let’s jump –
BESSENT: I think a lot of this is media driven.
Raddatz wanted no further part of that exchange after Bessent calmly pushed back, and quickly moved on to her next question. But the outcome was mostly the same throughout the interview.
Whether on tariffs, trade policy, potential deals with Asian countries or the reworking of the U.S. economy, Raddatz tried to rattle Bessent. On question after question, Raddatz failed to do so.
She never could get past Bessent’s shutdown of her original attack: the polls. And he’s right: much of the economic sentiment and narrative, as was the case during President Donald Trump’s first term, is media-driven.
Click “expand” to view the full transcript of the aforementioned interview as aired on ABC This Week on Sunday, April 27th, 2025:
MARTHA RADDATZ: And now I am joined by President Trump's Treasury secretary, Scott Bessent. Thanks for joining us this morning, Mr. Secretary. We appreciate it. Let's start with the polls. For the very first time the president's polling numbers on the economy are under water with 53 percent saying it has gotten worse under President Trump, with 72 percent of those in our poll saying it is very or somewhat likely that his economic policies will cause a recession. Your reaction?
SCOTT BESSENT: Well, Martha, I haven't seen the polls. And for the past 35 years, my business was analyzing data. So, I think we’ve probably got to dig down in those.
But what I do know is that Americans are behaving very different than what the surveys say. So, the surveys may say that, but consumers are still spending. So, I prefer to look at what Americans are doing rather than how they're answering pollsters.
RADDATZ: And it doesn't worry you the poll numbers that you have seen?
BESSENT: When I start seeing data to the contrary, then the – we can look at that. But, you know, again, these poll numbers, and also, you know, when I look at the sum of the things that are being published, there was a story ten days ago that said, this is the worst April for the stock market since the Great Depression. Ten days later, the Nasdaq is now up in the month of April. And I haven't seen a story that says, oh, the stock market has biggest bounce back ever. So, I think – I think –
RADDATZ: Well, it certainly – it certainly has gone back and forth.
Let – let’s jump –
BESSENT: I think a lot of this is media driven.
RADDATZ: Let's talk about the Time interview with President Trump. He said he has made 200 deals on tariffs. Two hundred deals? Who has he made deals with? Is there actually any deal at this point?
BESSENT: I believe that he is referring to sub deals within the negotiations we're doing. And, you know, Martha, if there are 180 countries –
RADDATZ: But those aren't actual deals?
BESSENT: Martha, if there are 180 countries, there are 18 important trading partners, let's put China to the side, because that's a special negotiation, there's 17 important trading partners, and we have a process in place, over the next 90 days, to negotiate with them. Some of those are moving along very well, especially the – with the Asian countries.
RADDATZ: And President Trump's strategy really has been to announce these tariffs, and dial some back, pause them, make exceptions. Explain why you see this as a good negotiating strategy.
BESSENT: Well, in game theory, it's called strategic uncertainty. So, you're not going to tell the person on the other side of the negotiation where you're going to end up. And nobody’s better at creating this leverage than President Trump. You know, he's shown these – the high tariffs, and here's the stick. This is where the tariffs can go. And the carrot is, come to us, take off your tariffs, take off your non-tariff trade barriers, stop manipulating your currency, stop subsidizing labor and capital and then we can talk.
But I tell you, Martha, that we've had several of these Asian countries have come in and said, oh, well, we'll stop doing this, this, and this. And I look at these lists and I think, how did we get here? How did we get here? Because this trading system has been so unfair. And as President Trump says, I don't blame the countries, I blame the previous administrations that let them get away with it.
RADDATZ: But, Mr. Secretary, look at what you just heard from Barton O’Brien there. The administration says it's worried about Main Street, not Wall Street. But you heard that smal lbusinessman saying his inventory in China might as well be lit on fire because already what has happened and the concern about what's happening next.
How do they plan for things if they don't know what's going to happen?
BESSENT: Well, what they know is that the China tariffs are unsustainable because the Chinese cannot sustain this, that if the business people, like the gentleman you interviewed, stop ordering, China has no business model. Their business model is predicated on selling cheap, subsidized goods to the U.S. And if there's a sudden stop in that, they will have a sudden stop in the economy, so they will negotiate.
RADDATZ: Well, look, some of the leaders of the big box stores -- Wal-Mart, Target -- delivered a warning to President Trump that some of the shelves could be empty within a matter of weeks. I know you're looking forward, but this is a concern right now.
BESSENT: And we -- that's why we are negotiate -- negotiating these deals, and we're moving forward with this. Again, as the gentleman in Annapolis said, Martha, the goal is not to manufacture dog collars again in the U.S., that the president is looking forward to the jobs of the future, not the jobs of the past. The goal is to bring back high-performance manufacturing jobs or create high-performance manufacturing jobs. Right now --
RADDATZ: How long does that take? I mean, that is such a concern. How long does it take to bring that to the U.S.?
BESSENT: Well --
RADDATZ: Is there a plan?
BESSENT: Of course, but it's a process. Right now, the U.S. has a barbell economy. We have a very advanced financial system. We have tech exploration and development that is the envy in the world.
On the other side, we are a natural resource economy led by energy, which the previous administration tried to stifle, and in between is where working class Americans have lost out. And we want to bring back these manufacturing jobs or create these manufacturing jobs of the future, and we are meeting with companies that want to do this every day.
RADDATZ: And this is that -- that moment of pain or that transition with pain, but, again, how long does that last? Is there anything you can say about that, how fast you can bring these manufacturing jobs?
BESSENT: Well, look, Martha, it's a reallocation, because what we are doing, the federal government is shedding labor. We're trying to get the private sector to pick that up. But we have a very low unemployment rate. It's not like we have to create jobs. What we need to create are good paying jobs with fair trade. That is what the president is doing.
RADDATZ: Let's talk about China. President Trump, again, said he's spoken to President Xi of China, and negotiations are ongoing. But China has firmly denied this saying that China and the U.S. have not consulted or negotiated on the tariff issue.
So are negotiations actually happening? Who is talking?
BESSENT: Look, this was IMF-World Bank Week. They are in D.C., as you know. I had interaction with my Chinese counterparts, but it was more on the traditional things like financial stability, global economic early warnings. I don't know if President Trump has spoken with President Xi. I know they have a very good relationship and a lot of respect for each other.
But, again, I think the Chinese will see this high tariff level is unsustainable for their business.
RADDATZ: Why would they deny that negotiations are going on?
BESSENT: Well, I think they're playing to a different audience.
RADDATZ: So they're actually going on -- there's actually things happening, the Chinese are just denying, but it's not true?
BESSENT: That the -- we have a process in place, and, again, I just believe these Chinese tariffs are unsustainable.
RADDATZ: OK. According to Bloomberg, you said --
BESSENT: The Chinese business model.
RADDATZ: According to Bloomberg you said a comprehensive deal between the U.S. and China could happen in two to three years. Trump said a deal will come quickly. You’ve heard him say that. You said, obviously, it was going to be a slog.
So how long do you think?
BESSENT: Well, look, I think that there is a path here.
So the first path will be, again, a de-escalation, which I think the Chinese are going to have to have. Then I think there can be an agreement in principle, these 17 or 18 important trade deals that we're negotiating, the actual papering of the trade deal. A trade deal can take months, but an agreement in principle and the good behavior and staying within the parameter of the deal by our trading partners can keep the tariffs there from ratcheting back to the maximum level, sure.
RADDATZ: And it's very rare, I think it happened a couple times in the '70s, for the dollars, stocks and bonds to get hit as hard as they simultaneously did over the last few weeks.
If the goal is to get countries to stand with us against China, does it worry you at all that investors seem to be losing confidence in the U.S.?
BESSENT: Well, again, you’re saying losing confidence. And the – I don't think that this is necessarily losing confidence. And anything – I've been in the markets for 35, 40 years. Anything that happens over a two-week, one-month window can be either statistical noise or market noise. And they – you know, we're in this for the long term. And the important thing is that we are setting the fundamentals for a strong dollar, a strong economy, a strong stock market, and for investors to know that they – that the U.S. government bond market is the safest and soundest in the world.
RADDATZ: OK, thanks so much for joining us this morning, Mr. Secretary.
