On Thursday’s episode of The 11th Hour, MSNBC showed yet again the extent of their lack of self-awareness. Host Stephanie Ruhle used a discussion with author Ryan Holiday as an occasion to weaponize classical Stoic philosophy, and the memory of the second-century Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius, for the purposes of the 21st-century left-wing media’s political hang-ups.
Ruhle began by introducing Holiday, whose book, ostensibly about the ancient Greco-Roman Stoic School of philosophy, was entitled Right Thing, Right Now- Good Values, Good Character, Good Deed. “Good God,” she fumed, “it doesn't feel like people are prioritizing any of those things anymore. How do we get there?”
“Yeah,” Holiday began to lecture about how Stoicism was supposed to be acted upon:
[T]his idea of virtue in public life- that just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should, just because something's (…) not illegal means it's okay, is deranged. I think, ancient philosophy is supposed to be a guide to being- a flourishing human being. Not just how to succeed, but how to be a good person across the board. And Stoicism, in all different areas, for 2000 years, has been this thing that people turn to when the world feels like it's falling apart. Stoicism is supposed to be this thing that holds fast.
That sounded noble and admirable, and not like an obvious thing to exploit for angry, divisive political purposes.
Ruhle apparently did not see it that way, though, and immediately turned the subject around to a favorite leftist bogeyman. “[Y]oung, right-wing men,” she sneered, were increasingly identifying with this philosophy. She asked Holiday “What does it actually mean?” as though if it meant something good, it certainly couldn’t be something that “young, right-wing men” would understand or appreciate.
Holiday hastily conceded that it was “wonderful that people are coming to this ancient philosophy, and that people are finding it through social media… we should be turning to these ideas.”
However, he went on to lament how it was supposedly being interpreted:
The problem is, people are stripping it from the context which it's supposed to be in… Stoicism is this idea, that we don't control what happens, we control how we respond to what happens, and that everything, everyone, is an opportunity for us to practice arete, or excellence… it's this chance for us to be… in command of ourselves.
Again, a fine and noble idea, which did not sound at all like MSNBC’s petty, vitriolic, obsessive partisan rantings, but indeed rather the opposite.
That was, nevertheless, the chosen narrative for the discussion. Showing a staggering lack of self-awareness, considering the usual content of her show, Ruhle lamented about people being “driven by grievance,” and seeing their neighbors as “the enemy based on how they live, how they vaccinate, how they vote[.]”
Holiday responded by continuing the projection of antiquity onto modern-day liberal pet causes:
[T]he Ancients did this, too… We've always been about the other. But there is something strange about the richest man in the world telling the richest country in the world that's spending 1 percent of its budget on- on aid for the poor, is insane, right? That's insane. We- What good is power, wealth, success, the strongest military in the world, if we can't use it to be a force for good in the world? And so I think it is hard when the most powerful and important people in society are not modeling these virtues.
As if this illustrated the point, he then related a story from the Meditations of the Roman emperor and Stoic philosopher Marcus Aurelius, to whom much of what was espoused by MSNBC would have been inconceivable:
[T]he reason that the Emperor Hadrian chooses Antoninus to succeed him (…) is because in a moment that he doesn't think anyone is watching- Hadrian catches Antoninus helping his elderly stepfather up a flight of stairs. Right? He sees kindness, someone doing something good for someone else. And this is a core part of stoicism.
Based on MSNBC attempting to use that, of all things, to promote the angry, vindictive, and partisan stuff they routinely spewed every day, it was hard to imagine what, in their minds, would be off limits as a left-wing propaganda tool.
To view the full transcript, click "expand" to read:
MSNBC’s The 11th Hour
04/10/2025
11:49 PM(...)
[ON-SCREEN HEADLINE: RYAN HOLIDAY ON NEW BOOK, ‘RIGHT THING, RIGHT NOW’]
STEPHANIE RUHLE: I know there's a ton of breaking news out there and very serious business to get to, but I think this is, maybe, the most serious.
It is very hard to navigate fear and uncertainty, especially when grievance is involved. In these days, in our country, in this world, it feels like grievance affects everything: our politics, our small communities, our big cities.
Our next guest believes he has the blueprint to, not just surviving tough times, but how to thrive after them. How? By achieving our true potential, and not just lifting ourselves, lifting each other in the process. With me now, New York Times best selling author, podcast host, my friend Ryan Holiday. He wrote the book Right Thing, Right Now- Good Values, Good Character, Good Deed.
Good God, it doesn't feel like people are prioritizing any of those things anymore. How do we get there?
RYAN HOLIDAY, NYT BESTSELLING AUTHOR: Yeah, this idea of virtue in public life- that just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should, just because something's illegal- or, not illegal- means it's- okay, is- is deranged.
I think, ancient philosophy is supposed to be a guide to being- a flourishing human being. Not just how to succeed, but how to be a good person across the board.
[ON-SCREEN HEADLINE: RYAN HOLIDAY ON THE PHILOSOPHY OF STOICISM]
And Stoicism, in all different areas, for 2000 years, has been this thing that people turn to when the world feels like it's falling apart. Stoicism is supposed to be this thing that holds fast.
RUHLE: Well, what is it, right? People are tossing around the world- the word ‘Stoicism’ a lot right now. What does it actually mean?
HOLIDAY: Well, it definitely doesn't mean the repression or the suppression of emotion. It's not about pushing away empathy. It's about- I think it is being less emotional, but not emotionless. I mean-
RUHLE: So hold on. It means don't get triggered-
HOLIDAY: Yeah-
RUHLE: -by things, but- because right now, we're actually seeing a rise in this- in Stoicism, from- sort of- young, right-wing men. And- it’s- people are even calling it ‘broicism.’ Okay? So, help us understand what they're doing, and what you're talking about.
HOLIDAY: I think it's wonderful that people are coming to this ancient philosophy, and that people are finding it through social media, that's all wonderful. We should be turning to these ideas.
The problem is, people are stripping it from the context which it's supposed to be in. Which is, it's an ethical philosophy, a guide to be a good person to be involved in public life to contribute to what the- the ancients would have called the ‘Polis.’ Right? The public society.
Stoicism is this idea, that we don't control what happens, we control how we respond to what happens, and that everything, everyone, is an opportunity for us to practice arete, or excellence. Moral, professional, personal excellence, that's- that's the core idea. That- it's this chance for us to be what we're meant to be, to be in command of ourselves.
RUHLE: But, when we're driven by grievance- which is what it seems many people are, they feel like ‘Life isn't fair. And I'm mad’-
HOLIDAY: Yes.
RUHLE: What you're talking about- what we talk about a lot here- is the importance for [sic.] kindness-
HOLIDAY: Yes.
RUHLE: -to live in service of others. But right now, lots of people would think of kindness as weakness, and living in service of others- ‘Why do that when I want to put myself first?’ That's not how an individual or a society thrives.
HOLIDAY: There's been this resurgence with Marcus Aurelius, right? Gladiator- He's all over the memes- he's this cool badass from history.
And, he writes this book, Meditations, the private thoughts of the most powerful man in the world. I see why that's going to be attractive to people. And he has things in there about controlling your temper, about not being anxious, about- you know- conquering your- your demons.
But, he also refers to the idea of the common good something like 80 times. Over and over again he says, in Meditations, that what we're here to do, is have good character, and do things for the common good. That's what a good life is, he says- that the fruit of a good life is that you are a person of good character and you do things for the common good.
RUHLE: Then explain this to me- and I know I don't have all night with you,- but explain this: We're the most prosperous country in the world.
HOLIDAY: Yes.
RUHLE: You and I are very lucky. We live the American dream.
Where did things break that- people are completely angry, and they don't feel like there's a common good, and they only want to serve themselves? Or they think that person on the other side of the street, they're not part of their community, they're the enemy based on how they live, how they vaccinate, how they vote?
HOLIDAY: Yeah, look, the Ancients did this, too. ‘Barbarian’ refers to how- the foreigners would- would speak, ‘bar-bar-bar’. Right? The- We've always been about the other.
[RYAN HOLIDAY ON GRIEVANCE IN POLITICS]
But there is something strange about the richest man in the world telling the richest country in the world that's spending 1 percent of put- of its budget on- on aid for the poor, is insane, right? That's insane. We- What good is power, wealth, success, the strongest military in the world, if we can't use it to be a force for good in the world?
And so I think it is hard when the most powerful and important people in society are not modeling these virtues, that we have always held up as the highest form of human greatness. You know- is it about your victories on the battlefield? Is it about the size of your fortune? Or is it about how you treat other people? Is it the goodness that you do?
The reason that the Emperor Hadrian chooses Antoninus to succeed him- there's a series of Roman emperors who don't have a son, so they choose their successor- the reason he chooses Antoninus, who in turn chooses Marcus Aurelius, is because he- in a moment that he doesn't think anyone is watching- Hadrian catches Antoninus helping his elderly stepfather up a flight of stairs. Right? He sees kindness, someone doing something good for someone else. And this is a core part of stoicism.
RUHLE: Then how- Help us. You and I don't rule the world-
HOLIDAY: No.
RUHLE: -but we do control ourselves.
HOLIDAY: Uh-huh.
RUHLE: -And to those emperors, you could have picked your daughters, just FYI- We do control ourselves. Yes, as does our audience.
We are living in a time where we do have world leaders calling each others [sic.] losers and liars and morons. We do have the richest man in the world cutting off aid to the poorest people, making it more difficult for senior citizens to get access to the money that's owed to them. If this is how our leaders are treating us- and in theory, they're the example-setters and we're the ones at the bottom, we're the individuals- what do we do to get out of this? Help us.
[ON-SCREEN HEADLINE: RYAN HOLIDAY ON NAVIGATING UNCERTAINTY]
HOLIDAY: I think it's important to realize we are also example setters. We're not at the bottom. Each one of us is a parent. Each one of us is a boss. Each one of us is a person walking down the street seeing litter on the ground.
And what are you going to do with the part of the world that's in your control, which is your own actions? So, yeah, well- we all need to vote in elections, we all need to speak out politically. That's part of our job as- as not just human beings- but the stoics said this too- but at the same time, we do have a lot of control over individual actions, how we spend our days, how we treat the people around us.
And we can set counter examples. We can be- we can stand out, amidst the cruelty and the chaos and the dysfunction by- by being what we wish other people would be. That is up to us.
RUHLE: We can be the example.
HOLIDAY: Yes.
RUHLE: Be the change you want to see. Well, all I can do is take my 52 minutes a night, and invite people like you on to speak to our audience. Thank you so much.
HOLIDAY: Thank you so much for having me.
RUHLE: Thank you for everything you do. I'm honored to have you here. We’ll be right back.
