On Monday afternoon, MSNBC host Katy Tur gave a forum to die-hard climate doomsayer Michael Mann to complain about EPA administrator Lee Zeldin's moves to cut regulations as the environmental alarmist also renewed the worn-out claim that the world only has a decade left to reduce with carbon emissions. On MSNBC, no one notices that the climate fearmongers were saying this "one decade" stuff in 1990.
The MSNBC host began the segment by informing viewers of a recent statement by Zeldin. Here's Tur:
The Environmental Protection Agency is trying to repeal dozens of environmental regulations, chief among them a landmark finding from 2009 that said greenhouse gases threaten public health of current and future generations. In an op-ed written in the Wall Street Journal, EPA administrator (Lee) Zeldin writes: "We are driving a dagger through the heart of the climate change religion and ushering in America's Golden Age."
Tur brought aboard Mann as a guest and began by posing: "What is Lee Zeldin's job as head of the EPA?" That's a softball, leading the guest to say Zeldin isn't interested in "environmental protection."
After Professor Mann declared that Zeldin's job "is certainly not what he's doing here," Tur followed up by wondering why the EPA administrator declared that some of his goals are to lower the cost of living for Americans: "What's he talking about, trying to make the cost of a car less and heating a home and running a business? There are other agencies for that."
Mann took the opportunity to link Zeldin to "plutocrats" and "funders of climate change denial," and repeated claims that recent extreme weather is "unprecedented."
...this is historical revisionism. Lee Zeldin has close ties to polluters. He has close ties to the Koch brothers that are the major funders of climate change denial and the assault on renewable energy and the promotion of greenhouse gases -- of fossil fuels. And so what he's doing is the bidding of the powerful plutocrats rather than what he is supposed to be doing -- the bidding of the American people, protecting them from threats to the environment.
The most severe threat to the environment for today to public health and welfare being the effects of human-caused climate change -- the unprecedented heat waves and wildfires and flood and tornado outbreaks that we've seen these damaging and deadly results of human-caused warming. That's what he's supposed to be protecting people against, and he's doing the opposite.
After Tur argued that there seems to be a mixed message for HHS secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. to warn about the dangers of microplastics and other chemicals people consume while the EPA is not being so stringent about trying to reduce carbon emissions, Mann complained:
...there's no intellectual consistency here because there's no honesty here. They're not really trying to address the major threats to the health of Americans. What they're trying to do is simply pad the profits of the fossil fuel interests -- the polluters who got them there. And that litany of things that you read off -- that doesn't even include climate change. So there are all the other health impacts -- air quality, water quality -- taking into account the most devastating consequence of carbon pollution -- climate change.
Transcript follows:
MSNBC's Katy Tur Reports
March 17, 2025
3:39 p.m. Eastern
KATY TUR: The Environmental Protection Agency is trying to repeal dozens of environmental regulations, chief among them a landmark finding from 2009 that said greenhouse gases threaten public health of current and future generations. In an op ed written in the Wall Street Journal, EPA administrator (Lee) Zeldin writes: "We are driving a dagger through the heart of the climate change religion and ushering in America's Golden Age."
Joining us now, Presidential Distinguished Professor of Earth and Environmental Science at the University of Pennsylvania, Michael Mann. What is Lee Zeldin's job as head of the EPA?
PROFESSOR MICHAEL MANN, UNIVERISTY OF PENNSYLVANIA: Yeah, hi, Katy, it's good to be with you. And I'll tell you, his job is certainly not what he's doing here. His job is right in the title -- "Environmental Protection Agency." They're supposed to be protecting the environment. They're supposed to be protecting people. They're supposed to be protecting them from things that endanger public health and welfare like greenhouse gases that are causing warming. That's what the Endangerment -- the so-called "Endangerment Finding" represents, and they're trying to overturn that.
TUR: They -- or Lee Zeldin says: "The EPA was created to lower the cost of buying a car, heating a home and running a business." The original EPA administer put it -- administrator put it differently, though, writing in a press release, "The agency has no obligation to promote agriculture or commerce -- only the critical obligation to protect and enhance the environment." What's he talking about, trying to make the cost of a car less and heating a home and running a business? There are other agencies for that.
MANN: Well, I'll tell you what he's talking about. Yeah, I mean, this is historical revisionism. Lee Zeldin has close ties to polluters. He has close ties to the Koch brothers that are the major funders of climate change denial and the assault on renewable energy and the promotion of greenhouse gases -- of fossil fuels. And so what he's doing is the bidding of the powerful plutocrats rather than what he is supposed to be doing -- the bidding of the American people, protecting them from threats to the environment. The most severe threat to the environment for today to public health and welfare being the effects of human-caused climate change -- the unprecedented heat waves and wildfires and flood and tornado outbreaks that we've seen these damaging and deadly results of human-caused warming. That's what he's supposed to be protecting people against, and he's doing the opposite.
TUR: We saw the storms that just happened over the weekend. We've been covering all these major storms -- this more extreme weather now -- for years. What is it going to mean, though, to roll back some of these more landmark decisions in terms of the immediate? What's it going to mean for the quality of our air -- for the quality of our water?
MANN: Well, I'll tell you what it means, you know. We've got to reduce carbon emissions by 50 percent over the next decade if we are to avert even worse consequences than those we're already feeling. And what this is going to do is put a halt to all progress at the federal level in the United States when it comes to addressing the climate crisis -- when it comes to reducing carbon emissions. Worse than that, the United States -- we are the world's biggest legacy carbon polluter. We've put more carbon pollution into the atmosphere than any other country. And that's all the climate cares about -- the total amount of climate pollution. We've contributed more to the ravages of climate change that we're feeling now than any other country, and for us to back off from our own commitments and to cede leadership says to the rest of the world that the world's biggest polluter is unwilling to do their part, it makes it easier for other countries to shirk their own responsibilities, and, pretty soon, any meaningful global policy progress on climate falls apart.
TUR: So there are 31 rules that are earmarked for them to get rid of, and this is waste water discharges for oil and gas extraction facilities; oil and gas industry reporting through a greenhouse gas program; rules governing coal ash and coal-fired power plants; national air quality standards for industrial air pollutants; rules to produce air pollution that cause haze; regulations restricting vehicle emissions. There's this whole healthy movement in this country -- you see it all over social media. RFK Jr. has been capitalizing on it, saying that, you know, you need to reduce the amount of toxins that you're putting in your body -- we're all consuming all these microplastics -- we're all consuming all these chemicals in food -- we need to go back to the original way of things. Okay, great. This seems to fly directly in the face of that. You're putting more pollutants, more chemicals, more hazards into the air at the same time that we're allegedly also in MAHA.
MANN: Yeah, I mean, there's no intellectual consistency here because there's no honesty here. They're not really trying to address the major threats to the health of Americans. What they're trying to do is simply pad the profits of the fossil fuel interests -- the polluters who got them there. And that litany of things that you read off -- that doesn't even include climate change. So there are all the other health impacts -- air quality, water quality -- taking into account the most devastating consequence of carbon pollution -- climate change.
TUR: All right, Michael Mann, thank you very much for being with us.
