As NewsBusters previously reported, Comedy Central's Jon Stewart called former President Harry Truman a war criminal on Tuesday, and although the "Daily Show" host has apologized for his comments, they continue to evoke criticism and rebuttal across the country.
One such came from PJTV's Bill Whittle who created an absolutely must-see video on Friday marvelously fact-checking the actual history involving America's decision to drop atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki in August 1945.
In his spectacular piece, Whittle discussed how Japanese citizens were indeed warned about the coming bombings by millions of leaflets (pictured right) dropped on Japanese cities by our Office of War Information (OWI).
NewsBusters reader Robert Fraser, whose father was "slated to invade Japan after he got through with the Nazis," sent me a link to the text of this leaflet:
Read this carefully as it may save your life or the life of a relative or friend. In the next few days, some or all of the cities named on the reverse side will be destroyed by American bombs. These cities contain military installations and workshops or factories which produce military goods. We are determined to destroy all of the tools of the military clique which they are using to prolong this useless war. But, unfortunately, bombs have no eyes. So, in accordance with America's humanitarian policies, the American Air Force, which does not wish to injure innocent people, now gives you warning to evacuate the cities named and save your lives. America is not fighting the Japanese people but is fighting the military clique which has enslaved the Japanese people. The peace which America will bring will free the people from the oppression of the military clique and mean the emergence of a new and better Japan. You can restore peace by demanding new and good leaders who will end the war. We cannot promise that only these cities will be among those attacked but some or all of them will be, so heed this warning and evacuate these cities immediately.
After further research of my own, I came across the following at the CIA's website:
On 26 July 1945, the heads of state of the United States, Great Britain, and the Soviet Union, meeting in Potsdam, Germany, agreed to give Japan an opportunity to end the war.7 Their terms called for the disarmament and abolition of the Japanese military; elimination of military influence in political forums; Allied occupation of Japan; liberation of Pacific territories gained by Japan since 1914; swift justice for war criminals; maintenance of non-military industries; establishment of freedom of speech, religion and thought; and introduction of respect for fundamental human rights. The final section demanded that the government of Japan “proclaim now the unconditional surrender of all Japanese armed forces.” The alternative for Japan was “prompt and utter destruction.”8
By 7:00 p.m. on the very day of the Potsdam Proclamation, OWI’s station KSAI began broadcasting the surrender terms to the Japanese nation at regular intervals. OWI also printed the full text of the offer in the Japanese language and dropped over 3 million leaflets by B-29 aircraft. Thus Japanese officials learned of the Potsdam conditions a day ahead of the official communication sent through diplomatic channels.
Japan’s Cabinet and the Supreme Council for the Direction of the War were immediately called into joint session. They met almost continually from 26 July through 14 August. Arguments over whether, when, and under what conditions Japan should surrender continued right through the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. On 27 July, after a routine meeting not attended by Japan’s civilian Foreign Minister, the militarists released notification to the world’s media that Japan rejected the Potsdam offer. 9
Immediately following this rejection, America began aggressively warning Japanese citizens of imminent bombing missions despite the danger such a tipping of the hand represented to our forces:
By noon on 28 July, OWI’s presses on Saipan were rolling with notices warning civilians to evacuate 35 Japanese cities scheduled to be bombed within the next few days. About 1 million leaflets fell on the targeted cities whose names appeared in Japanese writing under a picture of five airborne B-29s releasing bombs. Given the extent of the effort, it is extraordinary that many Americans are not aware that Japanese cities were warned prior to being bombed. Even today, members of the B-29 crews recall their fears that the warnings would make them easier targets for Japanese planes and antiaircraft artillery. However, they concurred with Gen. Curtis LeMay’s proposal at the time.10 Military newspapers featured the unprecedented action under such headlines as “B-29 Command Now Calling Its Shots” and “580 B-29s Follow Up Leaflet Warnings With 3800 Tons Of Fire And Explosives.”11 Visualize what it must have been like for people in the targeted cities to look up and see more than 100 B-29 “Superfortresses” overhead. The image lends understanding to the Allies’ decision to warn civilians, even at their own risk.
Though the warnings and bombings continued, Japan refused to surrender even after Hiroshima:
At 2:45 a.m. on 6 August, the Allies’ B-29 “Enola Gay” left the island of Tinian near Saipan. Its primary target was Hiroshima, where the 2nd Japanese Army stood poised to defend against an expected Allied invasion of their homeland. At 8:15 a.m., the “Enola Gay” destroyed Hiroshima with a single atomic bomb.
Back on Saipan, the OWI presses were turning out leaflets that revealed the special nature of Hiroshima’s destruction and predicted similar fates for more Japanese cities in the absence of immediate acceptance of the terms of the Potsdam agreement. By 9 August, more than 5 million leaflets about the atom bomb had been released over major Japanese cities. The OWI radio station beamed a similar message to Japan every 15 minutes.
Front side of OWI notice #2106, dubbed the “LeMay bombing leaflet,” which was delivered to Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and 33 other Japanese cities on 1 August 1945.
So, Japanese citizens after the Potsdam offer were continually notified by the OWI of imminent bombings, which is certainly far more than our forces at Pearl Harbor were afforded on December 7, 1941.
Alas, such facts seem unlikely to convince the blame America first crowd.
—Noel Sheppard is the Associate Editor of NewsBusters. Follow him at Facebook and Twitter.
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Comments Policy
Just Wow, NS
May 2, 2009 - 14:08 ET by BlondeExcellent post.
Made my day. Thx.
I hope he fails, too.
Whoops!
May 2, 2009 - 14:11 ET by Roger the ShrubberWhoops!
Or this one.....
May 2, 2009 - 18:09 ET by motherbeltOr this one.....
They might say "Wow, that sucks!" But at least they'll say "Wow!" -Duff Goldman, the Ace of Cakes
Hey mb & RtS... I'm
May 2, 2009 - 20:37 ET by bigtimerHey mb & RtS...
I'm LOL with both of your links...did you both ever sum it up!
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
Noel, no need for Stewart to
May 2, 2009 - 14:36 ET by d1carterNoel, no need for Stewart to do research...all history started January 20, 2009...tehe
Great post!
Yes, Great Post to Remind the Ignorant Masses
May 2, 2009 - 16:17 ET by DoktorFrankenMost of us here knew this little slice of history (the notification of the Japanese people). The Left seems to conveniently forget everything about history, though. Just the fact that they have fallen for another Hitler-styled 'ruler' shows their ignorance.
Jon Stewart has made his money off of destroying people with lies and fooling the Ignorant Masses every day. I would have no remorse if he were to be a victim in the next terrorist attack.
Stewart said on is thursday
May 2, 2009 - 15:05 ET by sajc05Stewart said on is thursday night show that he it was a dumb comment to make and he doesn't actually believe that truman was criminal.
as a proud conservative (not a republican) I love the daily show, he his hilarious. so what if he's liberal? Are republicans only able to be entertained by Larry the cable guy?
A phenomenal rebuttal to
May 2, 2009 - 15:25 ET by stratmanA phenomenal rebuttal to the stupidity and arrogance of Stewart.
What passes for History in our schools these days?
**stratman
May 2, 2009 - 18:13 ET by pelicanmarshWhat passes for History in our schools these days?
Obama has that one covered: America is bad, has always been bad, has tried hard to be bad, and he is here to make sure the world knows how sorry we are for being so bad.
And to think I studied History in high school and had a completely different outlook than Obama. If only I would have realized that America was bad...silly me.
Instead of the Three R's,
May 2, 2009 - 20:31 ET by stratmanInstead of the Three R's, the latest curriculum is the newage Three S's:
(For the younger folks here, the Three S's used to mean Shower, Shave, and Shine(shoes).)
→ Strat
May 2, 2009 - 20:34 ET by Cool ArrowI remember a different "S" in the mix, but yours will suffice, I guess.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE!
Your "S" is definitely
May 2, 2009 - 23:14 ET by stratmanYour "S" is definitely mission critical, especially the older we get.
;-)
Some advice for Jonny...
May 2, 2009 - 15:54 ET by JWFEject! Eject! Eject!
Yet another liberal lie meets the light of day.
I have said it before here on NewsBusters. Liberals believe the Atom bomb is such a shock to the conscience that all we had to do was drop it on an empty field to show the Japanese and they would have scurried out with arms raised begging to surrender.
We dropped it on a city and it was not that big a shock to the consience of those in power in Japan. They thought we did not have enough to do it agian or were unwilling to try. So we dropped another one 3 days later to show them we meant business.
If there is a God in heaven, then someone somewhere is gonna sit Jonny down and make him watch all sixteen minutes because he surely needs it.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
why did stewart apologize?
May 2, 2009 - 16:54 ET by puredmashiewas it a sincere admission that it was a dumb comment, or was it just that hst was a democrat?
my favorite part of the video was the speaker pointing out the inanity of stewart's total abandonment of logic, and giving absolutely no thought to what an incredibly stupid idea a demonstration explosion offshore would be.
to the posters on this forum who are military veterans, i thank you for allowing me to live in a free country. i have never experienced war, nor is it likely that i ever will thanks to the sacrifices you've made for me - and for jon stewart, i might add. i think what separates me from a 'snarky liberal comic' like jon stewart is that i don't pretend to know what those veterans experiences were like, and therefore feel i have no right to make a moral judgement.
i do know this: war is horrible, and any actions that can be taken to end it quickly should be taken. in fact, the most compassionate thing a commander-in-chief can do is to be absolutely ruthless to the enemy, and do whatever you can to eliminate that enemy's will to fight back.
swing hard in case you hit it.
Oh it's worse than that.
May 2, 2009 - 23:45 ET by Dave DOh it's worse than that. After the second one a portion of the Japanese military actually attempted a coup against the emperor to prevent the surrender. (The video mentions attempts to stop Hirohito but it was really a failed army coup.) So how could it have been obvious that they were going to quit?
Of course there's other huge issues with this point of view. The first is during the invasion of Europe at one point instead of giving up Germany staged a counter attack. (Battle of the Bulge.) Of course this used up resources that Germany could have better used for defense but if you're an Allied general who had this happen 9 months before are you really going to think, "Oh they'll just give up with no resistance"?
Finally just think what a Japanese general would think if the US were to have done the "Demo in the bay" idea. So lets do a little role playing and lets try to be the Japanese general. I'm in a brutal war with an enemy for years. They're pissed and fighting me tooth and nail flattening cities and the like. All of a sudden they claim they have a devastating weapon that cost a fortune to develop. For no real reason the enemy has decided to be "nice" to me for no real reason and demo this in the bay and waste a fortune, again for no real reason. On top of this I would notice they're going to drop it in such a way that I can in no way assess actual damage. (I mean they're dropping it over water, there's nothing to record the supposed destruction.) I know what I would think if I were that general, the bomb is a fake and it's all a massive trick.
Leaflet picture
May 2, 2009 - 15:48 ET by ammo johnThe leaflet is showing the B-29's dropping hundreds of incendiary bombs, which the Japanese hated because it would practically burn whole cities down because of their paper and wooden structures.
Maybe if Stewart would take a vacation and read up on some history. History that hasn't been revised, that is.
Strategy
May 2, 2009 - 16:02 ET by slickwillie2001This illustrates an effective strategy to handle Stewart. He has a great research staff and a staff of comedy writers. He determines what questions will be asked, games your answers and has counterarguments ready. To get the upper hand on him you have to take it in a direction that he had not anticipated, a direction which his staff has not researched for him. Only then does he end up on his own.
Now at that point he can simply put on the clown nose; then you lose. In this case though he went for the bait and it showed how shallow and uninformed he is.
Well another one of his
May 2, 2009 - 23:50 ET by Dave DWell another one of his favorite tactics is to derail the conversation. Basically the guest will try to talk, Stewart will drop a quick throw away line and the audience laughs and cheers for 1/2 a minute. Not only does this stop the guest from talking it totally derails the guest's train of thought. So another thing that becomes necessary is basically using sound bites so Stewart doesn't have a chance to stop the guest. (Because by the time he's going to drop the line the guest has already made their point.)
DaveD... Yep...and it
May 2, 2009 - 23:59 ET by bigtimerDaveD...
Yep...and it drives me crazy!
He isn't alone by any means in doing the same tactic either....he is just a master at it.
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
nothing new
May 2, 2009 - 16:26 ET by right of waythis is just the left being the left. make something up rewrite history and spew it out as fact. jon going to play this off, but what he said was very stupid and shows he doesn't know his history. anyone who knows their history would agree that japan asked for it. the japs were such a strong adversary, they would occupy islands by creating complicated catacomes and imbed themselves, it was a major chore to beat them. as wierd as this may sound, those two bombs saved lives on both sides because it prevented the war from lasting any longer. but i am surprised that jon went after a democrate.
Brilliant Research
May 2, 2009 - 16:43 ET by AgentAmericanBut the left is too far gone in lala land.
2010: A GOP Hill
extraordinary video
May 2, 2009 - 17:11 ET by katainkentmany thanks to PJTV for their research. This information was common knowledge and still taught when I was in sixth grade. Since Mr. Stewart is similar age as myself I wonder how this information escaped him.
Hold on ‘cause the world will turn if you're ready or not ~ KT Tunstall
disturbing
May 2, 2009 - 17:25 ET by mizflame98The scary part is people actually watch this show and considers it a legitimate news program. Maybe that doesn't say much for network news if people consider Comedy Central to be just as comparable.
http://www.statenews...
“It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds”
Samuel Adams
Bravo!
May 2, 2009 - 18:00 ET by SlyrrI hope more people come out with stuff like this. The media has gotten entirely too big for it's britches and it's high time they were smacked down, and smacked HARD.
I hear the Boston Globe is on it's last legs. Good riddance. Hopefully the NYT will follow.
I loved the scene were the host says that one of the soldiers (who's life was probably saved by the decision to bomb Hiroshima and force Japan to surrender) went on to live and start a family - and that one of the children fathered by that soldier grew up to be an ungrateful, spineless, snivelling little worm named Jon Stewart who hates his country and who's only claim to fame is that he runs a disgraceful, mean-spirited and small-minded comedy show.
Sadly, if Truman had
May 2, 2009 - 18:27 ET by BlazerSadly, if Truman had ordered this attack today, most likely he would have found himself in front of The Hague, especially if you consider this administration's will to placate the far left and it's desires to criminilize the defense of our country and our national security.
My grandfather was a ball turret gunner on a PB4Y-Liberator in VPB-104 in The Pacific theater. He fought the Japanese and of the few conversation's we had concerning his service, what came through was not only the bravery, but the sheer murderous determination of our enemy in the Pacific. He admired their steel.
It took the power of the atom to break them, nothing else would have.
"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "
- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.
" The Cake is a lie."
The left always
May 2, 2009 - 20:03 ET by ahusserconveniently forgets that the projected casualties for the invasion of Japan, which was in the planning stages, was for a million Allied casualties. Extrapolate the usual Japanese civilian and miltiary casualties to ours and you would get a figure of around 5-10 million for them. Men from the European theater were slated for transfer to the Pacific. Iwo Jima had 28000 casualties near 7000 of these KIA. Okinawa had 50,000 casualties with about 12000 dead. The 200,000 people who died in the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki gave their lives to save millions more in my humble opinion.
"Somehow, I told you so, just doesn't quite say it." Will Smith in 'I, Robot.'
I don't see the name of
May 2, 2009 - 20:06 ET by PewahI don't see the name of either Hiroshima or Nagasaki on the leaflet posted above. This exact same style of leaflet was used for other cities that were bombed in western Japan, but again I don't ever remember the citizens of either of the cities wiped out by Little Boy or Fat Man being forewarned of something that had the potential to annihilate, in one fatal stroke, the majority of their cities.
The flyer above specifically warns of conventional bombing raids, something most Japanese were very familiar with and something that they possibly thought could be survived. The survivors I met and talked with many years ago in Hiroshima (most lived on the outskirts of town) had no idea prior to the bombing that something that destructive was going to tried out on them.
I know well what happened at Pearl Harbor, Nanking, and Bataan. Those were repugnant and criminal acts and not enough of Japan's military were held accountable for them, but the dropping atomic bombs on citizens in two cities (200k+ killed) as well as the firebombing and burning of citizens in Tokyo (140k+ killed) went well beyond what could be reasonably called like retaliation.
I don't see the name of
May 2, 2009 - 20:48 ET by BDI don't see the name of either Hiroshima or Nagasaki on the leaflet posted above.
This exact same style of leaflet was used for other cities that were bombed in western Japan, but again I don't ever remember the citizens of either of the cities wiped out by Little Boy or Fat Man being forewarned of something that had the potential to annihilate, in one fatal stroke, the majority of their cities.
The flyer above specifically warns of conventional bombing raids, something most Japanese were very familiar with and something that they possibly thought could be survived.
The survivors I met and talked with many years ago in Hiroshima (most lived on the outskirts of town) had no idea prior to the bombing that something that destructive was going to tried out on them.
I know well what happened at Pearl Harbor, Nanking, and Bataan. Those were repugnant and criminal acts and not enough of Japan's military were held accountable for them, but the dropping atomic bombs on citizens in two cities (200k+ killed) as well as the firebombing and burning of citizens in Tokyo (140k+ killed) went well beyond what could be reasonably called like retaliation.
Wow. I can't find a single
May 2, 2009 - 21:49 ET by PewahWow. I can't find a single argument above worth the time to answer. I've haven't seen so many points missed since the first time I took my 8 year old daughter to shoot my .45 ACP.
Okay, then lets
May 3, 2009 - 07:53 ET by BDOkay, then lets review:
You posted the following. "I don't see the name of either Hiroshima or Nagasaki on the leaflet posted above. "
This exact same style of leaflet was used for other cities that were bombed in western Japan, but again I don't ever remember the citizens of either of the cities wiped out by Little Boy or Fat Man being forewarned of something that had the potential to annihilate, in one fatal stroke, the majority of their cities.
The flyer above specifically warns of conventional bombing raids, something most Japanese were very familiar with and something that they possibly thought could be survived.
The survivors I met and talked with many years ago in Hiroshima (most lived on the outskirts of town) had no idea prior to the bombing that something that destructive was going to tried out on them.
I know well what happened at Pearl Harbor, Nanking, and Bataan. Those were repugnant and criminal acts and not enough of Japan's military were held accountable for them, but the dropping atomic bombs on citizens in two cities (200k+ killed) as well as the firebombing and burning of citizens in Tokyo (140k+ killed) went well beyond what could be reasonably called like retaliation.
Re I don't see the name of
May 2, 2009 - 21:22 ET by slickwillie2001Your points are silly. Hiroshima was the primary target of the first mission, and there were two backup targets. Kokura was the primary target of the second mission and was saved because of cloud cover; Nagasaki was the secondary target. Even a specific warning of the atomic attack missions would have had to include around six cities, -a primary and two backups, times two missions.
You seem to want warnings so specific that perhaps you would have liked us to tell the Japanese the day and hour of the bombing as well?
Re the bomb being anything special or unique, in the same posting you acknowledge that the firebombing of Tokyo killed more people. To those on the ground that died, what would it matter if it was a firebombing or a nuclear weapon? The firebombing of Tokyo was one of many firebombing missions.
Re 'beyond what could reasonably called like retaliation', what the h does that mean? World War II was not about retaliation, it was about national survival. If an enemy is trying to kill you, you have a right to kill him first. There is no requirement that you use like weapons. If a police officer is attacked by a man with a knife, would you deny the police officer the use of his gun?
In terms of firebombing by 300 planes or a nuclear attack by one plane, there is little difference to those on the ground. Without nuclear weapons, firebombing would have continued for months more. Nuclear weapons only made the Japanese see that our efficiency in bombing them into submission had greatly improved. In this respect they saved Japanese lives.
Batting second we have...
May 3, 2009 - 00:07 ET by PewahYour points are silly. Hiroshima was the primary target of the first mission...
I don't get your point. Are you concerned that they might have burned up extra fuel sending planes out ahead of the bombings? Do you know how many flights we had going over Japan on a regular basis by that time? We were unchallenged in the skies by that time.
You seem to want warnings so specific...
You vastly underestimate the abilities of OWI to create specific warnings to citizenry. They did it often...they did it well.
Re the bomb being anything special or unique...Re 'beyond what could reasonably called like retaliation'
Not only was the citizenry of Hiroshima and Nagasaki not forewarned of their obvious and imminent annihilation, the pamphlet mentioned above would have only warned them of possible bombings by conventional ordinance, nothing more. Prior to their natural deaths, I met and talked with people who were there the day the bomb was dropped. They told me that they had no clue that anything out of the ordinary was going to be carried out against the men, women, and children of that city. This might surprise you Bubba, but I know that the U.S. had to use the bomb. I have always believed that the first nation to develop it during a time of war would have been compelled to use it in some way in order to herald its arrival. The problem I have is that the decision to use it against a target like Hiroshima is that the same objectives might have been achieved, that being Japan's surrender, without targeting densely populated areas. Hiroshima was not primarily chosen because of its military significance. It was chosen because it offered the brass a preferable topography to take post bombing test data.
It is absolutely naive to think that retaliation did not have a part in deciding to use it against Japan. Although undeclared, the attack on Pearl Harbor was against a military target. Therefore, to ignorantly cite it as justification to kill 100's of thousands of non-combatants is silly. We were able to justify the use of a nuclear weapon against the Japanese because we had effectively demonized their entire race and made them less than ourselves. That made the wholesale wiping out innocents much more palatable at that time...and apparently even now for some. Ask yourself this one…If we would have developed the bomb a few months earlier, would we have used it against the Germans, Italians, or Vichy French? The answer is no, because they’re too much like us.
In terms of firebombing by 300 planes or a nuclear attack by one plane...
Man, I wish I would have understood this point way back when. I could have told those people in Hiroshima how damn lucky they were to represent for their whole country. You sound as if you've personally experienced conventional ground bombing vs. nuclear. What a valuable reference that makes you.
(No subject)
May 3, 2009 - 00:58 ET by PewahOh do shut up Grampa.
May 3, 2009 - 07:18 ET by JWFI don't know you so I will keep this civil.
You did not read of Mr. Sheppards article nor did you look at a single second of Mr. Whittles video. Instead you came in with the very same arguments as Jon Stewart. Every point you have made here is rebutted by Mr. Whittles video.
Further, a single soldier with a rifle does not broadcast his intentions to his enemy, nor do artillery, tanks, ships, or planes broadcast their intentions to the enemy. EVER.
Your entire point and the point of Jon Stewart was countered by Sun Tsu some 2500 years ago.
The place of battle must not be made known to the enemy.
Even our known trolls have the sense to stay away once a subject has been definitively settled. And Mr. Whittle definitively settled this little liberal meme.
Congratulations, you torqued the Vet and you did it early on a Sunday morning. Pewah. Idiot.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
JWF: Pewah makes the
May 3, 2009 - 07:58 ET by BDJWF:
Pewah makes the obvious mistake of assuming warfare is all about retaliation on like scale. You kill one of mine, I kill one of yours.
He/She fails to understand that the first rule of warfare is to WIN! And you do that by killing your enemy more efficiently than they can kill you or even replace.
Thus, if your enemy brings swords to a fight, you bring a gun, and preferably an automatic weapon....
General Pewah the 2 star arm chair general.
May 3, 2009 - 08:40 ET by JWFGeneral pewah the cowardly 2 star arm chair general joins the ranks of the liberal elite that constantly second guess our every move in every war.
No one, no army, no country has ever in the history of the planet, the entire recorded written human history, ever demonstrated the useful of a new weapon by giving the enemy a demonstration.
All new weapons have proven their effectiveness in battle. All of them.
You, you in the castle. We are teh awesome. We will now demostrate the awesomeness of our new weapon, the catapult. We will now, if you may, direct your attention to that hill yonder. We shall demonstrate the awesomeness of our new weapon by pelting yon hill. We will accept the terms of your surrender immediately following the demonstration. Thank you for your cooperation. Now Behold our awesomeness. Fire...
Liberals. Good at arm chair generalling. Bad at actually doing stuff like serving their country or supporting her in times of war.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
an Eternal Champion after many exhausting trials and tribulations in the endless war between Law and Chaos
JWF
May 3, 2009 - 10:36 ET by ahusserPewahs really torqued my hozzle. But trying to answer this stupidity really gets tedious and I finally give up out of sheer disbelief in what was said and despair for even trying. Prior to his ignorant, inane comments I commented about the amount of casualties which would have resulted from the invasion of Japan. A million American (and allied?) casualties. If the usual multiplier is used the invasion would have cost Japan 5-10 million casualties. I can only imagine Hitler warning London of the V-2 attacks (can you imagine the carnage if HE had the bomb with the V-2). I am sure leaflets would have been dropped by the Nazi's on unsuspecting Londoner's et al.
As to the Japanese in WWII I have absolutely no sympathy. Just ask the POW's, Chinese, Filipino and other subjugated peoples in Japan's 'Southeast Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere'. A hundred thousand civilians in Manila alone were killed during the battle there near the end of the war. The hatred against this enemy was justified. Even 60 odd years after the war Japan still refuses to accept responsibility for the huge loss of life and atrocities they directly caused.
"Somehow, I told you so, just doesn't quite say it." Will Smith in 'I, Robot.'
If I torqued your hozzle I
May 3, 2009 - 11:49 ET by PewahIf I torqued your hozzle I do apologize. That's not usually the way I swing with guys.
I absolutely agree with you about Japan's unwillingness to accept their full responsibility for their war atrocities. It is disgusting that generation after generation of Japanese school children are not taught the full truth about Japan's aggression during that period. Even more than the U.S., China and Korea are due a long awaited apology for the inhuman behaviors they endured by the Japanese military.
I cannot remember more than one or two times in the several years that I lived in Japan that I had a discussion about WWII with a Japanese person and found one that knew very much about Nanking or Pearl Harbor. They all pretty much knew that Japan was in the wrong, but they never quite seemed to have all the facts. This didn't make them bad people, just misinformed.
LOL...who didn't read Noel's
May 3, 2009 - 11:17 ET by PewahLOL...who didn't read Noel's article? He specifically mentions the fact that we did broadcast, via leaflet dropping, our intentions to bomb specific cities in Japan. Pop open a Diet Coke and see if some extra caffein will help you read better this morning.
"Whittle discussed how Japanese citizens were indeed warned about the coming bombings by millions of leaflets (pictured right) dropped on Japanese cities by our Office of War Information (OWI)."
Sun Tsu...oh please.
LOLidiot who does not address anything remote to what he posted.
May 3, 2009 - 12:15 ET by JWFI don't see the name of either Hiroshima or Nagasaki on the leaflet posted ...I don't ever remember the citizens of either of the cities wiped out by Little Boy or Fat Man being forewarned
The flyer ... warns of conventional bombing raids. ... The survivors I met ... had no idea prior to the bombing that something that destructive was going to tried out on them.
... but the dropping atomic bombs on citizens in two cities ... went well beyond what could be reasonably called like retaliation.
Why don't you give us some more orders Lt. Gen. Pewah of the 2nd armchair cowardly revisionist history brigade?
In the meantime, let me direct your attention to the field over there where we will demonstrate our new technology called stealth. What? Don't see anything? Well surrender now then.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
War
May 3, 2009 - 08:17 ET by DontFeedTheTrollsbut the dropping atomic bombs on citizens in two cities (200k+ killed)
as well as the firebombing and burning of citizens in Tokyo (140k+
killed) went well beyond what could be reasonably called like
retaliation.
So you feel retaliation, tit for tat, should be the game played in war? Then you would agree that more than 20 million Japanese should have been slaughtered in retaliation for the Chinese murdered by Japan.
D
Keep the ILLEGALS out, join NumbersUSA to send free faxes to your reps.
I'm not condoning what the
May 3, 2009 - 11:32 ET by PewahI'm not condoning what the Japanese military did during WWII. Oh, by the way, the number of Chinese civilian deaths attributable to Japan is closer to 5.5 million, not 20 million. Check your facts.
War is not always a perfectly noble pursuit. Retaliation is certainly part of it. It is human nature to want revenge and I don't understand how people don't grasp that here. It's not like we fight wars based on instructions given to us in the New Testament, right? The Old Testament is probably a better primer for war, but then we've been told that it's time to move on from that way of thinking by the Son of God, right?
War is not always a
May 3, 2009 - 15:03 ET by BDWar is not always a perfectly noble pursuit. Retaliation is certainly part of it.
If we had fought WW II the way you suggest we should have...
May 3, 2009 - 09:26 ET by R D Helm...we most likely would still be fighting it today.
"Like retaliation?" I define that as how not to win a war.
Ever.
-Dave
This coup has gone on long enough. The time to put it down is NOW.
Dave: I must bring up my
May 3, 2009 - 09:47 ET by BDDave:
I must bring up my "Law and Order" theory once again. Liberals watch sooo much "Law and Order" on TV that they assume it to be reality.
War? Watch the litigation....
Did the enemy get Mirandized before you ambushed him?
Did he fire first before you hit him with the 120mm cannon fire?
Did you have to blow him to little bits?
Etc....
Too much "Law and Order" and not enough "Band of Brothers" in their viewing diet.
I love Band of Brothers.
May 3, 2009 - 11:33 ET by PewahI love Band of Brothers. It's an amazing tribute to the greatest generation. Makes me cry all the harder when I think of my late dad's service during WWII.
But you somehow still see
May 3, 2009 - 15:06 ET by BDBut you somehow still see retaliation as the prime purpose in warfare rather than victory? How is thaT?
BD -- I watch Law and Order
May 3, 2009 - 11:53 ET by Jack BauerBD -- I watch Law and Order infrequently, it's very liberally annoying at times.
But I did catch a rerun a couple of weeks ago (from 2007, I think.) that made be almost choke on my late night cuppa Earl Grey...
Jack McCoy's assistant at the time was a quite fetching blonde - and she'd done something to piss off Jack and Fred Thompson by sympathizing with a perp...
Anyway I didn't know anything about her character, and in the last scene of the episode, Fred calls her into his DA's office, all Donald Trump like and tells her "You're fired..."
LONG PAUSE
Her response: "Is it because I'm a lesbian?"
Fred: No
Her: Thank goodness. I'd hate to think it was because of that..."
Me: Laughing and choking
"Liberals watch sooo much
May 3, 2009 - 19:29 ET by R D Helm"Liberals watch sooo much "Law and Order" on TV that they assume it to be reality."
LOL-Yeah, it was the same as with West Wing. Some of them actually thought Martin Sheen was POTUS.
-Dave
This coup has gone on long enough. The time to put it down is NOW.
Condi Rice on 4/27
May 2, 2009 - 21:19 ET by eaglewingz08Condi Rice on 4/27 disembowels a libtard student with a smile in this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijEED_iviTA
view it before youtube puts in down the memory hole. It is the most enjoyable five minutes you may have today. It shows why we miss grownups in positions of power in the Zerobama Administration.
OUCH!
May 3, 2009 - 07:32 ET by motherbeltFantastic video!
I must say, though, that I was actually impressed that the liberal students let her speak, and didn't try to shout over her. I even heard one of them say to an interrupter: Let her finish....
A perfect example of pre-conceived notions. I loved her admonition to "do your homework next time."
PS: You need to add the "h" at the beginning of your link....it won't load without it.
They might say "Wow, that sucks!" But at least they'll say "Wow!" -Duff Goldman, the Ace of Cakes
Yes. Condi Rice says once again the truth.
May 3, 2009 - 08:45 ET by JWFWaterboarding was not torture. Waterboarding is legal by U.S. Code and International treaties.
Looks like we are in for another 65 years of liberal idiots. As demonstrated by Jon Stewart and General Pewah the 2 star arm chair idiot still second guessing our dropping the atomic bomb on the enemy. 65 years later and they still cannot pick up a history book.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
Beautiful
May 3, 2009 - 08:48 ET by mizflame98I love how the room fell silent when Ms. Rice spoke.
“It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds”
Samuel Adams
Eaglewingz08, Thank you
May 3, 2009 - 11:46 ET by Scuba DudeEaglewingz08,
Thank you for posting that vid. I am in the process of downloading it so it does not disappear.
While I was watching that it came to me, can you imagine Obama trying to respond to a question like that? How long would it have taken him to finish? How many Umms and Ahhhs? Would you even be able to understand his position?
Condoleezza Rice defended her point with conviction and intelligence. She was able to bring out sources to support her position without notes or any other aids. If the Republicans are able to regain control of the Congress and the White House I would feel very safe and secure if she came back to work in Washington.
"The wrOng ONE was elected"
Great post, Noel
May 3, 2009 - 10:55 ET by R D HelmGen. Curtis E. LeMay, my second favorite general of WW II, was the U.S. Army Air Corps. version of Gen. George S. Patton Jr., who was my favorite general from that war.
Needless to say, LeMay's nickname of "Iron Ass" was well deserved.
From a short biography on LeMay:
"LeMay oversaw Operation Starvation, an aerial mining operation against Japanese waterways and ports which disrupted Japanese shipping and food distribution. Although his superiors were unenthusiastic by this naval objective, LeMay gave it a high commitment level by assigning the entire 313th Bombardment Wing to the task (about 160 planes in four groups). Aerial mining supplemented a tight Allied submarine blockade of the home islands, drastically reducing Japan's ability to supply its overseas forces to the point that post-war analysis concluded that it could have defeated Japan on its own had it started earlier."
"Because LeMay knew high-altitude precision bombing on its own was ineffective, he switched to low-altitude nighttime incendiary attacks on Japanese targets; something senior commanders had been advocating for some time despite being contrary to all previous U.S. policy. LeMay did not inform USAAF Chief-of-Staff "Hap" Arnold of the change in tactics, reasoning that if it failed, Arnold could always fire him. He also ignored the opposition of his crews, who felt that they were being sent on suicide missions. Precision high-altitude daylight bombing was ordered to proceed only when weather permitted or when specific critical targets were not vulnerable to area bombing."
You will find the entire article here:
http://ww2db.com/per...
Needless to say, LeMay was my kind of general.
One of the more interesting quotes of his is:
"We scorched and boiled and baked to death more people in Tokyo on that night of March 9 to March 10 than went up in vapor at Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined."
-Of course, that wasn't quite true, but he was close.
My all time favorite LeMay quote was:
"You've got to kill people, and [when you've killed enough they stop fighting.]"
LeMay understood that the best way to save lives in war, on both sides, was to strike early, with overwhelming force, and get it over with as quickly as possible.
This was the same belief held by Gen. Patton and Gen. William T. Sherman, two of the most successful combat generals in American history.
-Dave
This coup has gone on long enough. The time to put it down is NOW.
Favorite, Dave?
May 3, 2009 - 11:07 ET by BlondeMine is George Catlett Marshall.
I've read his four volume authorized biography by Forrest Pogue....an amazing account of an amazing man. Deemed too important for Ike's job, Marshall was able to juggle not only the combat commanders of the allied forces, but sort out the the politicians, forcing them to keep focused on the task at hand, as well. After the War, the Marshall Plan.
Knowing you as I do, I'd highly recommend reading this biography.
<edit> I did a quick search, and found this interesting quote:
"There is one point that was missed, and that, frankly, we missed in making our plans. That was the effect the bomb would have in so shocking the Japanese that they could surrender without losing face. ...we didn't realize its value to give the Japanese such a shock that they could surrender without complete loss of face." (David E. Lilienthal, The Journals of David E. Lilienthal, Volume Two: The Atomic Energy Years, 1945-1950, pg. 198).
Gen. Marshall was extremely careful in regard advocating for/against the use of the atom bomb.
I hope he fails, too.
J,
May 5, 2009 - 17:58 ET by R D HelmI like Gen. George C. Marshall, too, and I will have to put his bio on my reading list.
-Dave
This coup has gone on long enough. The time to put it down is NOW.
General Curtis LeMay
May 3, 2009 - 12:02 ET by rpeeler42I concur with your praise of General LeMay. He was also a great leader in the cold war, just look at the Strategic Air Command.
Concerning Japan, the lesson is "If you choose to screw with the United States of America, we will make you pay, and pay, and pay." This, of course, is not true today-look at Korea, Vietnam and Somalia. With the current Lawyer in the White House do not expect any John Wayne type leadership, He is the typical weak Richard liberal apologist.
Landlubbers!
May 3, 2009 - 20:19 ET by JWFNo admirals make the list? I is hurt in addition to being disgurntled, disengenous and suffering the the malocclusions of all teh wars. Wait, now I don't even thing I am getting it righ... Janet? Hey, Janet?
"American Air Force" ??
May 4, 2009 - 00:01 ET by RiiightWasn't it still the Army Air Corps at the time? That raises questions about the genuineness of the particular leaflet, just like "African-American" does on Obama's 1961 live birth notice.