
A truly extraordinary event happened on HBO's "Real Time with Bill Maher" Friday evening: the host, in the first show of the new season delayed as a result of the Hollywood writers' strike, began the program bashing Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-NY) for faking a teary moment in a New Hampshire diner Monday.
Maybe even more astounding, Hillary's charade was a central focus of Maher's monologue, as well as the entire program during which he questioned the sanity of voters who bought into her crying game hook, line and sinker.
Readers are cautioned to hold on tightly to their seats, for this was how Friday's show began (video available here courtesy our friend Ms Underestimated):
Ladies and gentlemen, much like Hillary Clinton, I finally come before you tonight without armor, no writers, no one putting words in my mouth, I'm going to speak from the heart, and hopefully by listening to you, I will find my own voice (begins crying.)
I'm not kidding, folks. That's how the show began.
Keep those seatbelts fastened, because he continued with this line of attack:
I don't get this. Hillary Clinton's been bragging all year long that she's been doing this for 35 years - but she just found her voice on Tuesday? There's a medical term for this: slow learner!
Wouldn't it be wonderful if the media that fell all over themselves Monday and Tuesday aiding and abetting this canard would have been so skeptical about her performance?
Regardless of the answer, Maher was just getting warmed up:
These are challenging times for the politically correct, I mean, don't blame me for being sexist, because I read this in the New York Times that Hillary Clinton was going to lose New Hampshire, and then she cried and people voted for her especially the women. They wanted to see the robot cry. That's what it was. It was like P.T. Barnum, "See the robot cry." She broke the fourth wall. She cried, and then there was blood on the Son. But I've heard of electing a president you want to have a beer with. But, electing a president you want to have a good cry with? I mean, it's not a serious country. And I noticed that it was the exact right amount of crying. Did you see that? I mean, it wasn't like a full tear, people would have been like, "Oh, come on, that's glycerin! That's bullshit!" It was just, it was like, if it was any more crying, it would have been like Howard Dean's scream.
[...]
And the timing of the crying was a little suspicious. I mean, she's been in public life all this time, she never once cried. On the day before her entire career was on the line, the crying comes. So, who do I more believe, Hillary's cry or Roger Clinton's denial? I gotta go with Roger on that one. I really do.
Amazing, wouldn't you agree? But he wasn't finished:
And you know that this cry was all prompted by a question that Hillary got, she was in a diner, where she eats most of her meals. And a woman said to her, "I just want to know, how do you do it?" You know, and Hillary went through this long teary response about how it was personal for her, and she was there to fight for us, and then the woman said, "No, I just mean your hair. How do you do your hair?"
Tough to believe, don't you agree? Wouldn't it have been marvelous if the real press would have shown such skepticism concerning the authenticity of this event rather than the sycophancy Americans were largely treated to by supposedly impartial journalists?
But don't unfasten those seatbelts just yet, for later on in the program, during the panel discussion, Maher had more to say on this issue:
Let's assume that there was a sixteen point change, okay, because Obama was up as much as thirteen points in, in some polls that I read. Okay, and that seems to be because, again, Hillary did have a crying moment, the, the night before. Are we a serious people?...Are we serious people if someone can cry, and the next day people go, "Well, she finally cried, she's got my vote? She showed some emotion. She's a human." What kind of criteria is that?
Exactly, and that's been my feeling since the moment I saw this disingenuous display change the results in New Hampshire: what kind of criteria to be president is crying over one's own misfortune?
More importantly, why weren't more media members asking that very question rather than enabling her charade? And, other than those on the right, why did it take someone like Bill Maher to be willing to discuss the empress's poor attire?
Bravo, Bill.
As I have stated here on several occasions, I used to be a big fan of Maher's when his show "Politically Incorrect" was on Comedy Central. If this is the kind of balance this program is going to have without his writers - readers should be advised that he was guilty of a lot of Bush-bashing during this program, as well as an anti-GOP conspiracy theory reported earlier by the Media Research Center's Brent Baker - I hope the strike never ends.
After all, comedians should be equal opportunity offenders if they don't want to appear biased. For the most part, "Real Time" has been a 60-minute Bush and Republican bash since its inception.
With that in mind, if this wasn't just a rare deviation from the typical modus operandi of this program, and Maher is going to go back to his old format of lampooning people of all political stripes who are deserving of such, this could be a very happy new year indeed.
—Noel Sheppard is the Associate Editor of NewsBusters.













Comments Policy
Do we know if the woman who
January 12, 2008 - 15:03 ET by LighthouseJDo we know if the woman who asked "how do you do it?" was a plant too? Wouldn't surprise me but I doubt it mattered because the Clinton people had algorithms coldly computing a last-ditch, hail-mary pass. Her mouthpieces told her "just cry at something and string along soft language to appeal to womens basic emotions."
That line from Maher, "They wanted to see the robot cry", is great.
"Boats are safe in the harbor, but that's not what they're made for." -- Maritime quote
I had heard/read somewhere
January 12, 2008 - 17:01 ET by drillanwrthe woman who asked the empty-headed question [claims] to have voted for Obama ... However, if you listen to the question and then Hillary's completely scripted sounding answer, I just will NEVER beileve anything these people say or do.
Trust me, this was a
January 12, 2008 - 21:46 ET by obxrayTrust me, this was a plant.Take a good look at the video and you will see the look on their faces, like both know what they are doing.The whole 'I voted for Obama" bs is to try and throw us off. Just remember, she is Hillary Clinton.
I'm not really surprised
January 12, 2008 - 15:33 ET by motherbeltI'm not really surprised that Bill Maher would crack wise about that...he hit the nail on the head with the 35 years and finally finding her voice.
If that's the voice she finally found, I sure hope she keeps using it. Won't take people long to figure out what's going on.
I just went back and looked at the previous posting on this. I hadn't realized the question. The woman asks HRC how she keeps so upbeat and wonderful, and Clinton goes into a mourning session about how hard it is?
Good grief. (no pun intended). I thought before it might have been genuine, now I'm really a doubter.
and what is conveniently overlooked
January 14, 2008 - 23:48 ET by Cape Conservativeby all is the fact that the woman was asking her how she kept up with her hair! Not how she was dealing with the stress of it all. Did she do her own hair before starting out for the day????
As has been noted before, when HRC reaches tears, it is ALL about HER! Not about the country - HER!
As for "finding her voice" - I for one am rather sick of her many voices - from the black pulpit dialect to the soft, soothing Mother to the country, to the harsh shrill scream, and of course, the infamous grating "cackle" - she wouldn't know her own voice if it jumped out and bit her!
Sorry, CC
January 15, 2008 - 00:05 ET by BlondeHillary stated emphatically that she heard the voice of the voters....and then "found" her voice.
Seriously....the woman is on a great scavenger hunt...a grand walkabout wherein she finds the correct note (chord?) to strike.
She's chasing the polls. It is truly pathetic.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
I too used to always watch
January 12, 2008 - 15:41 ET by bigtimerI too used to always watch Politically Incorrect...long ago now of course, it was funny and good then and seemed to be an equal opportunity basher.
Glad to see Maher sees the light and all that but I wonder if he would of said one single word about this much if this was the General election and the opposition was Romney or Thompson for example...personally I love everything he said, but I think he is just upset that Obama didn't cream her like the polls showed and most likely he really did, maybe just maybe the rampant voter fraud the Clinton's have gotten down pat will have to change and must be brought out for all to see...they have been doing it for years in various ways after-all....the tight fisted control they have had is being forced to loosen it's grip, thanks to people more and more on the left side of the aisle speaking out...even Maher.
By the way I know voter fraud has been around from the beginning of time, the dems will always get away with what they can... but the Clintoon Machine has had it down to perfection every single time, even with the threats from the trial lawyers and the people they still have encased in the Justice Dept. on and on it goes...
One cavet, Noel: This little
January 12, 2008 - 15:49 ET by SMGalbraithOne caveat, Noel: This little spiel emanates directly from Maher's complete contempt for America and the American people.
He doesn't just criticize America - or those Americans - who fell for Clinton's crying game and changed their minds and voted for her; he constantly criticizes America structurally, institutionally, historically. Root and branch.
He loathes America. And Americans. Unless we elect an atheist socialist libertine president (he'll settle for Edwards presumably), we're just a bunch of troglodytes living in a fantasy world.
You can't just embrace parts of Maher's worldview; you have to take the whole philosophy.
And much of it is rancid hate.
No thanks, I'll pass.
I'm with SMG on
January 12, 2008 - 15:55 ET by tracheostomyI'm with SMG on this. Giving applause to Maher for this one snapshot moment fails to take into account his history.
Or maybe the "bravo" was meant as sarcastic?
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
SMG
January 12, 2008 - 16:01 ET by Noel SheppardSMG,
I don't think it's necessary to completely agree with a comedian or an entertainer's views in order to appreciate their performance. That's way too high a standard.
After all, this is just a comic. What has offended me since the inception of this show is the rabid, incessant, Bush and GOP bashing with almost no criticism of folks on the left. If what we saw Friday evening is a foreshadowing of the future, I can tolerate the opinions expressed that I disagree with.
In the end, I've never met anybody that I agree with 100 percent of the time, including writers and members here. Have you?
In fact, if that's the bar that needs to be cleared to garner my attention, I wouldn't be able to watch or read anything. Would you? ns
My apologies Noel, I keep
January 12, 2008 - 16:13 ET by tracheostomyMy apologies Noel, I keep mistaking the comedy program for an editorial roundtable.
I really cannot tell the difference between say, the McLaughlin Group and this bastard grandchild that Maher is trying to make with his little "talk" programs, other than the amount of added smarm.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
PJ
January 12, 2008 - 16:30 ET by Noel SheppardPJ,
Hey, hey, hey: let's not compare Real Time to the Group. After all, it's a metaphysical certitude the latter is where one goes to get REAL political discussion from the best journalists in America. ns
AH-HA Noe! This is where
January 12, 2008 - 16:43 ET by tracheostomyAH-HA Noel. This is where the rubber really meets the road, don't it? NB is here to attempt to separate the fake news, news commentary, editorials, discussions from the "real" discussions, correct?
I am a former lib that is still trying to make the transition. I used to watch both McLaughlin and Politically Incorrect* religiously.
And I saw no difference. I saw people with Journalism credits and university degrees talking and debating and such.
I still see zero difference. Zero. <--- Other than the value of the reasoning abilities of the individual participants, such as Tony Snow and Tony Blankley.
But as for the shows in general? It's just another set of soapboxes and a camera.
*Maher described the PI as The McLaughlin Group on acid.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
PJ
January 12, 2008 - 17:07 ET by Noel SheppardPJ,
See the point, but don't agree? I believe there's a HUGE difference between watching a bunch of Hollywoodans discuss current events versus top-rated journalists. And, even in his finest moments when PI was on CC, Maher was NO John McLaughlin.
C'mon. JM is the finest political moderator in the nation. Bar none. And, his program is and has been the prototype to measure all others by. You can't possibly say that about PI, even when Maher was really on his game before ABC corrupted him. ns
I'm just being honest
January 12, 2008 - 17:17 ET by tracheostomyI'm just being honest here Noel.
I acknowledge your Hollywoodans and at the same time, I give little more credit to "serious moderators" or "serious journalists". I got David Horowitz whispering in my ear.
I agree it is absurd for multiple reasons to compare McLauglin to Maher (age difference, articulation, etcetera).
But I'm honestly saying they're all taking heads and all that matters is the content or the ideals discussed. Maher brings in a Snow every now and then to make it look fair, and Eleanor Clift is allowed to live on McLaughlin's right screeching and interrupting.
I'm not being willfully ignorant, I just see people plopped on a panel with a bunch of credits in front of their names. Really. I wish I could see what you do Noel, but I don't.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
PJ
January 12, 2008 - 17:36 ET by Noel SheppardPJ,
What I see is that one is entertainment while the other is informative. When I watch the Group, I'm doing so to learn from folks whose views I respect. When I watched PI, I did so mostly for laughs.
Now, there were certainly times when I learned from PI, but certainly not on a nightly basis. By contrast, I learn something every time I watch the Group.
Make sense? ns
No Noel, it honestly
January 12, 2008 - 19:03 ET by tracheostomyNo Noel, it honestly doesn't make sense to me. It appears you are making an individual and arbitrary judgement here. "This is entertainment, but this is informative."
However, to me it's all TV talking heads. Some are just individually more rational than others.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
PJ
January 12, 2008 - 19:33 ET by Noel SheppardPJ,
No, this isn't arbitrary at all. On the Sunday shows, and McLaughlin, the panel members are political writers that have spent their lives studying American history, current events, and civics. This makes them qualified to discuss such, and likely that the viewer might actually learn something.
By contrast, when PI or RT has a panel full of Hollywood actors, these are folks that often know less about what they're talking about than the common man on the street. As such, the only reason to watch is to see if someone says something that's either funny or preposterous. But, the possibility of actually learning something is quite small. ns
Noel, see Mother's post.
January 12, 2008 - 19:37 ET by tracheostomyNoel, see Mother's post. I'm sincerely being duped somewhere, I just don't know where.
:brain hurting:
So then what the hell is Tony Snow doing giving validation to Maher by his presence?
hUH?!??
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
Noel: McLaughlin Group
January 12, 2008 - 19:15 ET by stratmanNoel:
McLaughlin Group has been a parody of itself for some time now. While there is a usually serious tone to the conversation, McLaughlin has been more and more side show barker and Liberal shill than any point in his show's history. It's bad enough having to listen to his pontifical prejudicial drone, but having nearly every question he posits crafted to cast Republicans, Conservatives and Christians in the worst possible frame is maddening.
Eleanor Clift is a Liberal hack who continues to have access due to her Leftward diatribes, DNC banister polishings and, to some of the older guard, her first marriage to the brother of actor Montgomery Clift. I can't mute the tv fast enough when she goes on a predictable jag, which is nearly every time she opens her piehole. Nowadays, there is nothing, ever, to learn from this shrew.
Larry O'Donnell. Nutjob hatemonger. 'Nuff said.
Pat Buchanon sounds more and more like a Democrat every week. This is not the enigmatic reputation you'd think he would want to cultivate. His muddled message adds little to the Nation at this time.
Let's face it, most on this show are pretenders to the power. If you really want thought provoking dialogue, bring on Gingrich and Carvel, JC Watts and Jesse Jackson, Hume and Staphylococcus. Let's pair up the big boys and girls and let them duke it out.
And McLaughlin Group is not the only show to dissippate. ABC's Sunday show with George Staphylococcus has weakened considerably with the unopposed inclusion of partisan hacks like Donna Brazil and little person Robert Reich, not to mention Staphy himself. Even the once stalwart Conservative George Will has taken a sinister turn (that would be "Left" turn for the chemistry challenged). Can anyone tell me what bee is in Will's bonnett to make him drink the Left's kool-aid?
Tim Russert also will stack the deck towards the Left as does the predictable Bob Schieffer. Occasionally PBS produces something with balance but Gwen Iffil can't help herself to not tilt Left. FOX News Sunday remains the most balanced roundtable forum on TV. I don't have cable so I can't comment on anything but broadcast tv.
I will watch these shows as I am a political and news junkie. But their quality leaves something to be desired, at least for a counterpoint.
Killing them with kindness isn't working. Time to get scrappy with the Donkeys.
Strat
January 12, 2008 - 19:28 ET by Noel SheppardStrat,
I don't disagree that the current panel on the Group leaves a lot to be desired. However, to me, it's the closest to the original in this format -- which was Agronsky and Company if you recall -- thereby making it miles above the rest.
As you said, "This Week" is now a joke because of Steph and others. "MTP" is only outstanding on the rare occasions when Russert has an equally stocked panel and/or Carville and Matalin on. And, "FTN" is a hoax because of Schieffer, and is totally unwatchable as a result.
With that in mind, the only thing that is worthwhile is McLaughlin in my view. ns
Fair enough.I enjoyed
January 12, 2008 - 19:46 ET by stratmanFair enough.
I enjoyed his fluffier New Year's prediction show. The new panelist Monica Crowley is a real corker!
As far as audience parcipation as a measure of a show's rating, I seem to yell a lot more during McLaughlin Group than any other program. ;-)
BTW, before I started to watch McLaughlin Group with a critical eye, I thought John McLaughlin was a meniacal Conservative and now I think he is a reformed Liberal! Either he's a great actor or he's changed.
Anyone else miss Jack Germond, Mort Kondracke and sometimes present Tony Blankley? Germond never took any of McLaughlin's crap.
Killing them with kindness isn't working. Time to get scrappy with the Donkeys.
Strat
January 12, 2008 - 19:53 ET by Noel SheppardStrat,
Sure. Do you remember when the panel was Germond, Clift, Kondracke, and Freddie "The Beadle" Barnes? Those were fun days!!! ns
Yes I Do!! Those were the
January 12, 2008 - 20:13 ET by stratmanYes I Do!!
Those were the best days of the show, no doubt.
What do you mean by Fred "The Beadle" Barnes? Is Fred still waiting on the rector? (hehe)
I've always thought of Freddie as the Dagwood Bumstead of conservative journalists. Must have been all the Blondie and Dagwood shows I watched when young.
Killing them with kindness isn't working. Time to get scrappy with the Donkeys.
Noel...Very
January 12, 2008 - 20:22 ET by JerNoel...Very entertaining...especially the parodies on Saturday Night Live. But after the departure of all except Clift, the panel became decidedly more conservative in configuration: Clift was often the only liberal in the mix, with Buchanan, Blankley, and Lawrence Kudlow. And despite strat's protestations to the contrary, McLaughlin was, is, and has always been a solid conservative.
As far as This Week, I wouldn't object to the addition of another conservative to augment George Will. But if you recall during the Clinton years, the show was initially hosted by David Brinkley, Republican, with Sam Donaldson, a liberal who was anti-Clinton, Cokie Roberts, Democrat who was a frequent Clinton critic, George Will, strong conservative, and Bill Kristol, strong conservative. The program was produced by Deborah Stone, also a conservative.
Further evidence the media was never in Bill Clinton's pocket.
Jer
Jer:Lawrence Kudlow is a
January 12, 2008 - 20:52 ET by stratmanJer:
Lawrence Kudlow is a late to the party Republican. Grew up a Jew then converted as an adult to Catholicism, was a drug and alcohol addict, was a member of Students for a Democratic Society (a bastion of Conservatism?), ran for Congress as a Democrat in New Jersey (another bastion of Conservatism?) and then worked in the Reagan Administration in the 1980's where his newly found conservative side flourished. (nothing like getting kicked in the teeth a few times to see the Conservative light)
Kudlow has appeared on The McLaughlin Group and I won't doubt your statement that McLaughlin will tip the scales heavier to one political provclivity from time to time. But, my cursory scan of McLaughlin transcripts shows that the panel is typically balanced 2 Liberal : 2 Conservative:
And I stand on my statement that McLaughlin is either a terrific actor or his Conservatism has taken a decidedly Liberal turn: there is Devil's Advocate and then there is just The Devil. ;-)
As far as Cokie Roberts and Sam Donaldson, they were able to keep in check their bolder prejudices even when opining, unlike today's crop of tabloid-style journalist commentators.
Killing them with kindness isn't working. Time to get scrappy with the Donkeys.
Strat
January 12, 2008 - 21:01 ET by Noel SheppardStrat,
Here's my take on John McLaughlin: he's an old-school conservative very disappointed with the current iteration of the GOP, and, therefore, takes very antagonist positions regarding the Bush administration and its policies. As a result, he often comes across looking like a lib.
However, I don't believe that to be the case. Instead, I think he's so well-established as a conservative journalist that he's comfortable pointing out when the emperor is walking around improperly attired much the same as a Robert Novak and a George Will.
Frankly, though I find myself getting angered by some of his questions and leading statements, I think it's extremely refreshing because he is often expressing the disgruntlement that many conservatives share but can't voice publicly for a variety of reasons. Know what I mean? ns
Noel: I hope you are
January 12, 2008 - 21:21 ET by stratmanNoel:
I hope you are correct.
I am glad that NewsBusters is a place where Conservatives can come and express disgruntlement of certain Republican policies. Not only can we unload some of our thoughts but we stand a good chance of being educated by fellow members as well.
Killing them with kindness isn't working. Time to get scrappy with the Donkeys.
strat...sorry for the delay
January 13, 2008 - 10:07 ET by Jerstrat...sorry for the delay in responding . As I stated in my reply to Noel, I made a mistake by leaving the impression that Germond's departure ushered in a dramatic and permanent shift to the right on TMG. I agree that there has been an apparent effort to maintain a reasonably balanced panel. However, unless McLaughlin has completely flipped ideologically, the show will always have at least a slight rightward inclination because of his choosing and orchestration of the topics under discussion.
[One caveat: I rarely missed TMG until the past few years. There was a telecast time change and my viewing dropped off dramatically. I just recently have begun regularly watching--or recording--again. In fact, it is on local PBS affiliate at this very moment. Consequently, I'll see if I can detect the transformation in McLaughlin's political philosophy to which you refer.]
Finally, I'll repeat what I said here several weeks ago: I wish there were perfect ideological balance in the media. I don't fear it...I would welcome it. When all media components are considered, I don't think conservatives have it quite as bad as they assert, but a case for the need of a somewhat stronger presence in the MSM can be made. If conservatives were more comfortable about their views being given a "fair shake" in the MSM, there would be less reliance on talk radio for the "news" and analysis. [On the other hand, it might mean less business for MRC and NB.]
Jer
Jer
January 13, 2008 - 11:53 ET by stratmanJer:
You had me until the end. Conservatives are unhappy with the MSM precisely because there isn't a "fair shake". While few enjoy external review, my gestalt is that the MSM has been performing roughshod colonoscopy on all things Republican, an unwelcomed, spiteful and prejudicial procedure no matter who is on the receiving end.
While it may be true that the media tilts opposite to whichever political party is in the White House, the gutting and slandering and electioneering by the MSM is beyond the pale. That the MSM fails to do the most elemental of their duties, fact checking and reporting both side's story, all the while pumping out what can be equated as yellow journalism screeds on Conservatives combined with powderpuff pieces about Liberals (or even not reporting news pejorative of Democrats), and pretty soon one gets juandiced in their views of the extent and intent of MSM.
If the MSM actually did their jobs, instead of the advocacy journalism rampant today, then there would be little need for MRC, NB and the release valve of AM radio punditry except for the more extreme or fringe components of the parties (eg John Birch Society, Air America Radio).
Killing them with kindness isn't working. Time to get scrappy with the Donkeys.
strat...Either I misstated
January 13, 2008 - 14:12 ET by Jerstrat...Either I misstated or you misinterpreted my comment on a "fair shake" in the MSM. Reread my words...they were meant to reflect my agreement with your and your fellow conservatives' view that you haven't been receiving a fair shake by the MSM.
True, I don't think it's as comprehensively and malevolently skewed as you charge, but we of course are observing with different prisms.
[And, please, no more "roughshod colonoscopy" imagery. I've been delaying sceduling the procedure, and you're not helping. <wink>]
Jer
Jer
January 13, 2008 - 15:02 ET by Noel SheppardJer,
Oh, lie down and take it with a smile on your face like Katie Couric:
:-) ns
Nice graphic
January 13, 2008 - 15:27 ET by stratmanNice graphic Noel.
Jer:
Once you make it through the bowel cleansing routine at home, the test is a breeze for most once they receive their sedating amnesiac drug (Versed or Propofol) plus or minus a pain management narcotic (Fentanyl or Demerol for instance). Any biopsies performed are painless. The drug effects are then oftentimes "reversed" post-op either via an "antidote" or enough time has lapsed that the drug no longer causes an effect, though you should have someone drive you home.
On the other hand, should you want to watch while it's performed...
Killing them with kindness isn't working. Time to get scrappy with the Donkeys.
Thanks, strat...that's more
January 13, 2008 - 15:51 ET by JerThanks, strat...that's more reassuring. I think I'll copy your post and take it with me [to make sure they have all those drugs ready to knock me senseless.]
Jer
[Plus, I'm not really interested in the visuals]
Many GI guys make a video
January 13, 2008 - 16:18 ET by stratmanMany GI guys make a video during the procedure. Maybe you can get a copy. Potential title: Jer's Colonoscopy Greatest (s)Hits.
Sorry, couldn't resist.
You'll do well and be out playing golf a couple of hours later.
Killing them with kindness isn't working. Time to get scrappy with the Donkeys.
Strat
January 13, 2008 - 16:24 ET by Noel SheppardStrat,
That's all well and good, but will he be able to play piano after the procedure? :-) ns
Great. Yet another sour
January 13, 2008 - 17:18 ET by JerGreat. Yet another sour note, Noel. Well, I'm not going to take it sitting down. You may be a bigger pain in my butt than whatever godawful procedure the doctor performs on it.
Jer
Jer
January 13, 2008 - 18:39 ET by Noel SheppardJer,
:-) ns
Inflatable Donuts
January 13, 2008 - 17:21 ET by stratmanHe might player piano but can he tuna fish?
ba-dum-bum!
(groan)
Killing them with kindness isn't working. Time to get scrappy with the Donkeys.
Can I tuna fish?
January 13, 2008 - 17:30 ET by JerCan I tuna fish?
No...but I love crappie puns.
Jer
crappie puns?
January 13, 2008 - 17:39 ET by botgi'm floundering about how to school ya
GoHunter08
Hooked on puns
January 13, 2008 - 17:48 ET by nkviking75You guys need to scale back the fish puns!
When you put the clowns in charge, don't be surprised when a circus breaks out.
"No...but I love crappie
January 13, 2008 - 17:55 ET by stratman"No...but I love crappie puns."
Crappie buns?
Some of your words will prove prophetic when it comes time for the bowel prep for your colonoscopy!
Can you say "like a race horse"?
Hehe. Couldn't resist.
Killing them with kindness isn't working. Time to get scrappy with the Donkeys.
Where I come from...
January 13, 2008 - 17:57 ET by goldenthroatHere in the Buckeye State, a crappie is a fish...
"Yeah! That's the ticket!" - Tommy Flanagan
If Katie can maintain her
January 13, 2008 - 15:43 ET by JerIf Katie can maintain her "perkiness" through that, she's a better man than I, Gunga Din.
Jer
Jer
January 12, 2008 - 20:48 ET by Noel SheppardJer,
I agree with some of your observations concerning the Group, but not all. First, Buchanan, Blankley, Kudlow, and Clift were a very brief foursome if I recall correctly. This was, as you said, a period of transition for the show when many panelists were being tried.
During this period, I also recall Jim Warren of the Chicago Tribune as a frequent guest, as well as Laurence O'Donnell, both rather liberal. Furthermore, although Buchanan is not a lib, he is certainly not a Bush supporter or a modern Republican. As such, he is often in strong disagreement with the other conservative on the panel.
As for This Week, I never felt Brinkley's political leanings were at all obvious. He always struck me as a very fair and balanced journalist. And, as for Cokie and Sam being frequent critics of Clinton, are you suggesting that this should be verboten on television, or just from liberals? :-)
As for this being evidence that the media was never in Clinton's pocket, I strongly suggest that if press members wouldn't have convinced Americans that the impeachment proceedings were all about sex instead of perjury and suborning perjury, Bill would have been tossed from the White House, and Hillary never would have been elected senator. ns
Touchdown
January 12, 2008 - 20:53 ET by well99"As for this being evidence that the media was never in Clinton's pocket, I strongly suggest that if press members wouldn't have convinced Americans that the impeachment proceedings were all about sex instead of perjury and suborning perjury, Bill would have been tossed from the White House, and Hillary never would have been elected senator. ns"
That pretty well sums it up.You still hear it was about sex even today.Apparently some folks dont understand the meaning of perjury.I guess the libraries must be closed.
"Apparently some
January 12, 2008 - 20:57 ET by stratman"Apparently some folks dont understand the meaning of perjury."
Liberals sure seemed to catch on pretty quick when it was applied to Scooter Libby.
Killing them with kindness isn't working. Time to get scrappy with the Donkeys.
"As for this being evidence
January 12, 2008 - 20:58 ET by motherbelt"As for this being evidence that the media was never in Clinton's
pocket, I strongly suggest that if press members wouldn't have
convinced Americans that the impeachment proceedings were all about sex
instead of perjury and suborning perjury, Bill would have been tossed
from the White House, and Hillary never would have been elected
senator. ns"
Game, set, match, Noel!
Noel...I should not have
January 12, 2008 - 23:43 ET by JerNoel...I should not have left the impression that The McLaughlin Group panel became and remained permanently tilted to the right after the departure of Germond. But, he and Clift were so demonstrably and reliably liberal that they, along with the moderate Kondracke, countered what I considered an otherwise intrinsically conservative bias [due to the fact that McLaughlin set the agenda and always delivered the final and "correct" word on any given topic.]
Replacing Germond, Kondracke, and Barnes (who himself had once been a centrist Democrat) with the likes of Blankley, Buchanan, and occasionally Kudlow seemed to really stack the deck against Clift. However, I agree that Jim Warren and Lawrence O'Donnell, as well as other liberal panelists, have provided more ideological balance.
During the 90's, when I was a regular viewer of TMG, it was preceded by William Buckley's Firing Line, followed by a one-on-one McLaughlin interview program, with conservative economist Louis Ruykeyser's Wall Street Week capping a PBS Sunday lineup teeming with Republicans. [Then on Monday, I would read the inevitable letter to the editor complaining how PBS completely shut out conservative opinion.]
Pat Buchanan is a maverick, a populist, a war critic [and so is Bill Buckley for that matter], but make no mistake, he is an unabashed conservative. In some areas, Pat is farther to the right than mainstream conservatives. [But, I can't help but like him.]
Regarding the impeachment of Clinton, I am sure the issue will be argued in perpetuity, but here is a summary of my thoughts on the matter:
--Clinton's behavior was indefensible. It was reckless, monumentally stupid, and morally reprehensible.
--I publicly stated at the time that he should temporarily step down and undergo counseling, and that he should be censured by Congress. [And I still think that would have been best.]
--I did not, however, believe his misconduct--even his efforts to conceal his behavior with false testimony in the Jones case--warranted impeachment.
--The underlying conduct was sexual, it was consensual, and it had ended months before.
--The Jones lawsuit, which was used by Clinton's opponents to set a purjury trap, was a farce. It was so devoid of legal merit that the Judge was prepared to dismiss it on summary judgment. [Even so, Clinton had offered to pay Jones every nickel she had asked for in the suit.] However, Clinton's legion of enemies wanted his head, and they used the Jones lawsuit as the blade. Foolishly, Bill Clinton, grabbed the blade, sharpened it, and handed it back to them. If a President could be impeached for sheer idiocy, the vote should have been unanimous.
--Henry Hyde [also an adulterer] had once defended the false testimony of the later-pardoned Cap Weinberger by saying that even though Cap had lied, the "context" surrounding his false statements shouldn't be ignored. I agreed with Henry's remarks in their application to Clinton. I have known many otherwise honest and honorable individuals who have been less than truthful in matters of sexual indiscretion. This was simply not a case for impeachment. That many in the media may have thought likewise does not mean they condoned his actions.
Jer
Eleanor Clift
January 12, 2008 - 18:54 ET by okiehawk44Her bio says she was a secretary who somehow just happened to be in the right place to become a well paid columnist. Hum? Wonder of wonders. Secretary to columnist without any training, education or experience. Sounds like the career path Monica was trying to emulate -- except she had education. Her former boss must have been very, very desparate. Eleanor Clift for goodness sake! GAG!!
I think Bill Maher is one
January 12, 2008 - 19:24 ET by motherbeltI think Bill Maher is one of the new "political comedians." Johnny Carson used to do political jokes in his monologue; Leno and Letterman still do. It was all in good fun, no harm intended.
But lot of what comes from guys like Maher and Jon Stewart is just nasty and sometimes even false, but then they use as an excuse "hey it's a fake news show!" or "it's just comedy, lighten up!" Like Michael Moore, who claims "documenatry" until he gets nailed on facts; then it's "opinion."
If you want to make jokes about politicians, by all means, do so. But don't intertwine political commentary with your comedy act and then expect people to sort through it and decide which parts you mean and which were just jokes.
BTW, wasn't it Bill Maher who said Americans were the dumbest people on the planet?
Good point Mother!Then
January 12, 2008 - 19:34 ET by tracheostomyGood point Mother!
Then someone began a new form of "talk-entertainment" here somewhere along the way without our collective notice.
Someone is responsible for making the decisive switch from "Comedy show that occasionally tells political jokes" to "Political show with comedy format/supplementation."
Is Maher such a comedy pioneer? If not, then who's responsible for beginning the confusion with this issue?
Because what were down to. . .on this thread is arguing what a valid comedy program is. . .wait-- I meant arguing about what valid political satire. . .wait--comedy political satire pretending to be news, what?!?? AHH-DAMMIT!!!
:screams:
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
I'm not enough of a TV maven
January 12, 2008 - 21:09 ET by motherbeltI'm not enough of a TV maven to know where it started. I don't watch all that much. Maher and Stewart are the first ones that I'm familiar with doing it. Whether they are the pioneers, I don't know.
I don't think it's necessary
January 12, 2008 - 16:14 ET by balboaI don't think it's necessary to completely agree with a comedian or an entertainer's views in order to appreciate their performance. That's way too high a standard.
I couldn't agree more, Noel.
But there's something
January 12, 2008 - 16:27 ET by tracheostomyBut there's something you're forgetting in regards to overall delivery. There is a stark difference between a Chris Rock performance and say, Dave Chappelle.
Strip away the jokes themselves and you're left with a lot of "set up" and agenda.
It's all in the delivery and overall message.
Additionally, red flags come up when it goes beyond just "one joke". If the writer or comedian begins to hack at one person/group over and over, then you know it's personal. . .and not just an act.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
I haven't watched Chappelle.
January 12, 2008 - 22:26 ET by balboaI haven't watched Chappelle. What's the difference between him and Rock?
Because one comedian in my
January 13, 2008 - 19:21 ET by tracheostomyBecause one comedian in my example goes from one subject to another--seemingly at random. The other revisits the same 5-6 subjects and hammers on them, demonstrating an agenda.
I admit that it was a clumsy example of attempting to show how there are comedians who just want to entertain and also comedians with an agenda.
I'm trying to be fair here. You're just sitting there like Vinnie Barbarino going, "What? Where?"
I'm pretty sure you know what I'm talking about, but you don't want to admit it. I can't make you admit it either. I'm just stating my case. There are some that want to blur the line between stage and soapbox.
Trying to think of another example for you.
http://www.inthesetimes.com/article/2745
It's not "just a joke" anymore. Individuals are trying to rally an audience to a cause, control their POV, and elicit sympathy.
Take Colbert for example. A one-note satirical character doing fake news commentary on a comedy channel that people take more seriously than not. He actually becomes a news source. People try to make valid comparisons between him and O'Reilly when Colbert is supposed to be a (very loose) parody of O'Reilly. But now he's considered in many cases a legitimate source of commentary. What the hell? Colbert isn't real. Get it now, Bal? The lines are blurred. That's all I'm saying.
Here's a better one.
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200703u/nj_crook_2007-03-06
Truth or fiction? Could such a thing really happen? Well. . .
Per Wiki: November 1, 2007, the South Carolina Democratic Party executive council voted 13-3 to refuse Colbert's application onto the ballot. “The general sense of the council was that he wasn’t a serious candidate and that was why he wasn’t selected to be on the ballot," stated John Werner, the party's director. In addition, he was declared "not viable," as he was only running in one state.
The vote was 13-3 Bal!!! They felt they had to actually pay it serious consideration even while he was running with the slogan, "First to secede, first to succeed".
Astounding.
It's not "just a joke" anymore when you've truly fooled an entire party council to deliberate on it, and actually get nearly a quarter of them to think you're for real. Not to mention that there is a demographic who actually considers him a valid source of information. . .instead of just comedy.
Get it now?
Or someday soon?
I hope? Bal?
Earth to Bal?
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
Yes Balboa
January 12, 2008 - 16:36 ET by well99Next you will say Jon Steward goes after libs.Well actually he does.I will admit I was wrong on that score.I have seen some vids on his site.If comedians go after both I have no problem.Let face it politians are probably the best source of material for comedians.
Jon Stewart is the funniest
January 12, 2008 - 17:37 ET by red_dragon311Jon Stewart is the funniest person he know's
the things he says are so funny in fact HE himslf is seen trying not to break out in laughter. biting his lip,
ok I really don't like him , Craig Kilborn was a much better fit fi the show. but his head got too big.
"Get off the phone you big dope!!!!!!!!!!" Mark Levin
Jon Steward
January 12, 2008 - 19:37 ET by well99I think sometimes he is funny.I started watching his vids lately.Some are lame and he goes after Repubs more than Dems.I considered him just a shill for the Dems and a hypocrite well I have mellowed some on my opinion.I have always liked comedians that went after both parties.Politicians give them so much material they dont need to make it up.
Noel: In the end, I've never
January 12, 2008 - 16:44 ET by SMGalbraithNoel:
In the end, I've never met anybody that I agree with 100 percent of the time, including writers and members here. Have you?
(I'm having a devil of a time responding. Comments are acting up.)
No, of course not.
But a single good point or opinion (or even several) cannot be viewed in isolation to the other views of the person expressing them. The larger worldview, if you will, of that person must be taken into account when viewing a few isolated or individual views.
(I could give the "Hitler hated communists so he wasn't all bad" line here but let's not overreach)
Maher's contempt for the voters who supported Hillary emanates from his larger view that the American people are idiots. Those that believe in faith and family and country.
Maher believes in none of those principles. In fact, those views are an anathema to Maher. As you and others have documented here, he has expressed his contempt for America repeatedly on his show. At least the new one.
He is not criticizing those voters who switched to Hillary as simply being emotional Hillary voters. He is criticizing them as being part of the larger idiots who constitute America.
I don't have to agree 100% (or even 50%) with someone to appreciate their views on all issues. But there are larger views, larger opinions that cancel out those narrower ones.
It's these larger views that we must consider when judging someone's narrower ones.
And for me, Maher's grand view of this country is a disqualifying one.
AWESOME you guys!!! We've
January 12, 2008 - 16:59 ET by tracheostomyAWESOME you guys!!!
We've reached debate nirvana at this very crossroads!!!
This is a pure example of what Schaeffer illustrated in writing about Raphael's The School of Athens.*
Noel is Aristotle, pointing to the particulars.
SMG is Plato, pointing to the absolutes or ideals.
So the question is: Should Maher (a liberal icon) be allowed a pass for this one particular, ignoring the overall ideal?
Beautiful! I freakin' love this site!
-PJ
*How Should We Then Live? Ch. 2.
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
SMG
January 12, 2008 - 17:23 ET by Noel SheppardSMG,
Valid points all if we're talking about a political candidate, friend, lover, or employee. However, should a comedian or entertainer be held to such a standard?
For me, there are a small number of Hollywoodans whose product I boycott at all costs because their world views are so offensive. Julia Roberts and Alec Baldwin are good examples.
However, there are folks whose politics I totally abhor, but I can get passed either because of their tremendous talent, or because my esteem for them became embedded before their political views became apparent to me.
For instance, like most conservatives, I can't stand Barbra Streisand. She offends me like almost no other Hollywoodan. However, I grew up with the movie "Funny Girl," and to this day consider her performance in this film to be extraordinary. So, despite my total disdain for who she is today, I can watch this film and be amazingly entertained.
Tim Robbins is another example. I love this guy in "Bull Durham" and "Jacob's Ladder." Fabulous performances, so much so that his world view doesn't interfere with my ability to appreciate fine acting.
And, I can still have fun watching Susan Sarandon in "Rocky Horror" despite her political opinions. Ditto Sean Penn in "Fast Times" and "Bad Boys." However, I can't watch anything new these folks do because of how far they've moved to the left, and how much they clearly hate our nation.
Make sense? ns
"Valid points all if we're
January 12, 2008 - 17:35 ET by tracheostomy"Valid points all if we're talking about a political candidate, friend, lover, or employee. However, should a comedian or entertainer be held to such a standard?"
You're arguing based on some kind of credentials alone here. This would exclude such Hollywoodans as Dennis Miller and Patricia Heaton among others.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
PJ
January 12, 2008 - 17:37 ET by Noel SheppardPJ,
Not sure I'm following you here. Do you mean because Dennis and Patricia are conservatives? ns
Correct. See my other
January 12, 2008 - 17:49 ET by tracheostomyCorrect. See my other post. I honestly cannot sort them all out like you can. I see people on a stage saying, "Today I'm going to entertain you." Then a day or two later it's, "Today I'm going to preach to you."
I just wish these people would find a hat to wear and wear it for the rest of their life. Dennis Miller told a great story on his show about how Sinatra wrote a check for a disfigured soldier once, and forbade him to tell anyone about it.
I like that. I support that attitude. Wear your given hat. Do what you know best and stop dabbling in the rest.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
"And, I can still have fun
January 12, 2008 - 17:44 ET by tracheostomy"And, I can still have fun watching Susan Sarandon in "Rocky Horror" despite her political opinions. Ditto Sean Penn in "Fast Times" and "Bad Boys." However, I can't watch anything new these folks do because of how far they've moved to the left, and how much they clearly hate our nation.
Make sense? ns"
I can't do that. I think that's the difference between you and I. It eats at me when I see them on screen. I can't help but think they're getting a cut somewhere from my movie rental or whatever.
It's also funny you mentioned Sarandon and Penn in the same post. Because there has to be a line drawn between Rocky Horror, Fast Times, and Dead Man Walking.
And as for me, I honestly can't find that line. I see people who initially wanted to be seen as actors first, and now they are aggressively wishing for me to see them primarily as activists.
There are other elements of a classical debate here. Is it the singer or the song; the writer or the play?
It is my conviction that all art is a form of communication. Someone trying to tell you something. Even Fast Times and Rocky. Sure, we laugh. But the author had to know something true behind it to make us laugh.
And I admit, I really kill a movie party when I start analyzing themes and thesis and such, but that's just the way my head is wired. If you rented a vid, just don't invite me, please.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
PJ
January 12, 2008 - 18:56 ET by Noel SheppardPJ,
Well, it depends on the point you're trying to make with your boycott, and who's going to feel the impact. For instance, "Fast Times," "Rocky Horror," and "Funny Girl" are films that I've loved for years. When these films first came out, these stars were just entertainers -- nothing more. Should I deprive myself of pleasure because the leads in these films have become political activists many years later?
When I watch Sean Penn as Spicoli, all I see is a talented young actor creating a role that quickly became part of Americana. His subsequent political inanities are ir