The "resignation" shortly after midnight on Sunday morning of President Obama's "green jobs czar" Van Jones has generally been seen as a convenient holiday weekend move.
By Friday, after White House Secretary Robert Gibbs would only say that he still was a part of the administration, it was obvious that Jones's resignation was only a matter of time. The 9/11 truther and other evidence accumulated by Glenn Beck, Gateway Pundit, WorldNetDaily, and others was simply overwhelming.
But it seems to me that it would have been more convenient had the White House waited until early Sunday afternoon to announce Jones's resignation. Given the establishment media's near blackout of his past statements and actions, it's likely that the Sunday morning network talk shows would have avoided Jones completely, or would have given the topic very short shrift. A Sunday afternoon resignation would have been much more invisible -- except for something that came out on Saturday evening.
I believe that Jones's resignation may have been moved up by 12 hours or so. That's because on Saturday evening, Scott Johnson at Powerline presented proof that roughly 40 hours after the 9/11 terrorist attacks occurred, avowed Communist Jones publicly declared that the U.S. deserved what happened. I'm not kidding.
Jones's statements are the functional equivalents of Jeremiah Wright's outrageous "America's chickens coming home to roost" rant at Chicago's Trinity United Church of Christ (y'know, the church Obama attended for almost two decades while managing to hear nothing inflammatory from Pastor "G__ D___ America"). They need to be more widely known.
Here they are, as reported by a far left web site early in the morning on Wednesday, September 13, 2001, covering an event in Oakland held on the evening of September 12:
Let's repeat: "The bombs the government drops in Iraq are the bombs that blew up in New York City."
++++++++++++++++++
UPDATE: At the end of the video posted here at BizzyBlog (HT to NB commenter Merkava below), Jones says, “It’s the bombs that the government has been dropping around the world that are now blowing up inside the U.S. borders.” This is either a different statement made the same evening, or IndyBay quoted the statement above incorrectly.
++++++++++++++++++
Keep in mind that Jones (in the original IndyBay quote) had to be referring to either the first Gulf War or no-fly-zone incidents, as the war to remove Saddam Hussein did not begin until 2003.
Charleston Daily Mail blogger Don Surber had this reaction to Powerline's post a short time later: "(This is) the smoking gun that will either bring down Van Jones or Barack Obama. It is President Obama’s choice." That choice was obvious.
From a White House media strategy standpoint, Jones's dead-of-night resignation unfortunately ensured that he would be a topic of conversation Sunday morning, but it minimized the chance of Powerline's bombshell becoming part of the discussion. Sure, David Axelrod had to go through the discomfort of laughably claiming that "this was Van Jones' own decision." That's a mere occupational annoyance. Given the chattering class's reluctance all along to tell viewers the full truth about Jones, his resignation gave them an opening to change the topic from "What did he say and do?" to "Whose fault is it?" (meanie bloggers, talkers, and Republicans, not necessarily in that order) and "How will this hurt the administration?" (of course, in their view and with their weeks of help, not much). No additional information about Jones himself was necessary to fuel that discussion.
The White House did the best it could with a bad situation suddenly made much worse by Powerline, and the media met the White House's see-no-new-evil wishes/expectations. Mission accomplished: Few people know that Jones believed, and still presumably does (in the context of everything else, why shouldn't we?), that America deserved the 9/11 attacks. You can make book that the Associated Press, the New York Times, and the rest of the establishment press will ignore what you've seen here.
One thing we don't know is how aware of Jones's "deserver" views Obama's close left-hand adviser Valerie Jarrett was when she made this statement in mid-August:
So, Van Jones. We were so delighted to be able to recruit him into the White House. We were watching him, uh, really, he’s not that old, for as long as he’s been active out in Oakland. And all the creative ideas he has. And so now, we have captured that. And we have all that energy in the White House.
If we're to believe Jarrett's boast, the answer is "very."
Note: I did not include a 9/11 picture of the Pentagon only because of space limitations, and I intend no slight to the memory of that attack or of those who lost loved ones in it.
Cross-posted at BizzyBlog.com.
—Tom Blumer is president of a training and development company in Mason, Ohio, and is a contributing editor to NewsBusters
Editor at Large
Comments Policy
Now the 12am resignation is
September 7, 2009 - 22:59 ET by Free StinkerNow the 12am resignation is starting to make sense.
UPDATE: Obama wasn't taken by surprise and Van Jones. Any President surrounds themsleves with like-minded people. Meaning: The United States elected as president a person who thinks we deserved 9/11.
the thing that got me
September 7, 2009 - 23:10 ET by candanceI wish no one had brought up VJ calling Republicans the "a-word" because he apologized for that, and most of the MSM coverage I saw has focused on that to imply that was the smoking gun. It gives them a harmless "controversy" to report and then they move on without mentioning 9/11 or his two arrests.
A Fellow "Community Organizer"
September 8, 2009 - 08:55 ET by JohnMcGrewThe real fraud of Van Jones is not that his ideology is Marxist or that he's always quick to “hate America first”. We've long known that much of Obama's inner circle, if not Obama himself, holds these views. The real fraud was that even Van Jones, the “Green Jobs Czar”, could not openly define for anyone exactly what a “green job” is. Let me help: A “Green Job” is the new codeword for political patronage. It's secure employment for those that the private sector economy has absolutely no use for, like “community organizers” such as Van Jones.
"The bombs the government drops in Iraq are the bombs...
September 7, 2009 - 22:58 ET by Scout Finch...that blew up in New York City."
How someone THIS odious came *this* close to a cabinet position frightens the h--- out of me!!!
And on top of that......
September 8, 2009 - 02:51 ET by pantrymanWE DESERVED IT......
Obama knew all about this dipshit's past...but he went ahead and appointed him anyway...
WHAT THE HELL WAS HE THINKING???? Was he deliberately trying to stir up a hornet's nest??
Maybe it went like this: I am the president and I i'll do whatever I damn well feel like doing.....after all, who is going to stop me?
Pres. Biden?
September 7, 2009 - 22:59 ET by TeamcheeserBarack Obama should resign.
Soros would not allow
September 7, 2009 - 23:00 ET by Free StinkerSoros would not allow Barrack to do so.
George doesn't have the same control over Biden.
You know, it's interesting.
September 7, 2009 - 23:07 ET by TeamcheeserYou know, it's interesting. I was thinking about all of the shows Glenn Beck has been doing (exposing ACORN, Van Jones, etc.), and the inevitable outcome is a final show or series of shows about George Soros.
Has to be.
Compare and Contrast
September 7, 2009 - 23:00 ET by legacyrepublicanWow. Thanks for this outline of events.
But, I can't help but think after reading it of the treatment of the evangelicals who said we deserved it too because of the stain of abortion on this land and the way they were treated.
They were attacked by the MSM while no one looked at Van Jones and even began to vet his left leaning wacko message until now, and even at that, it was only a small part of the media that did its job ( kudos to Rush, Levin, Hannity, Fox, Newsbusters, Hotair, Townhall, etc ).
When are we going to cry for their firing from their jobs as much as we want the bums out of Congress.
When are we going to demand good journalism from them and not just newspeak?
This is going to be a fun
September 7, 2009 - 23:02 ET by d1carterThis is going to be a fun week....
IT'S NOT ENOUGH...
September 7, 2009 - 23:06 ET by danybhoyYea, I'm thrilled that Van Jones got his @$$ kicked when he took aim at Glenn Beck, he got what he deserved. But that's not nearly enough.
I have been getting pissed off over how people are wondering how Van Jones got hired & what sort of vetting process allowed him to sneak under the radar. Here is the answer, OBAMA & HIS TEAM KNEW WHO VAN JONES WAS/IS, THEY KNOW HE'S A RADICAL COMMUNIST EX CON WHO IS A RACIST. That is how he got the job. I know it, you know it, & if you don't understand that, you are a fool. The MSM needs to start asking Obama why all of these radical communist/marxist/racist goons got recruited into his White House.
BTW, the Beck vs Jones fight is another win for people with real world experience. Jones is an ivy league bigot who has never been gainfully employed. Beck is a recovering alcoholic dj who dropped out of Yale after a semester, & Beck made Jones look stupid. That makes it all the more funny.
"...How blind can you be, don't you see...
...that the gambler lost all he does not have..."
Nightwish
dany, You are preaching
September 7, 2009 - 23:10 ET by Teamcheeserdany,
You are preaching to the choir. I think most of us know Obama was well aware of the exploits of Van Jones.
The question is, when the MSM reports that it was a vetting oversight will we let them get away with it?
TEAMCHEESER...
September 7, 2009 - 23:34 ET by danybhoyI did mention the MSM in my post, but I see your point. As for letting them get away with not reporting on Obama, less people are letting them off the hook, but too many still go to them for their news. They are hurting, but we need to make sure they held accountable unless they become honest journalists. I will never trust them again, other people, who knows?
"...How blind can you be, don't you see...
...that the gambler lost all he does not have..."
Nightwish
What sort of vetting process?
September 7, 2009 - 23:17 ET by sic721I'd say it's a pretty safe bet the Obama czar's vetting process is something like this:
QUESTIONAIRE
"Life's tough.....It's even tougher if you're stupid." John Wayne
rofl, sic!
September 7, 2009 - 23:20 ET by candanceI highly recommend everyone look at that link. Trust me, it's the funniest thing you'll see all day.
That it is...reminds me of
September 7, 2009 - 23:28 ET by bigtimerThat it is...reminds me of the same joke about his real BC....it's in the same vain as well.
'Go Green...Recycle Congress'
→ Truther & Quitter
September 7, 2009 - 23:10 ET by Cool ArrowQuitter Jones is just the gift that keeps on giving, isn't he.
Yeah, Mr. President. Glenn Beck is right. You really need to fire some of those FBI vetters who let this loose cannon get near you.
Unforgiveable they would allow your Administration be associated by such a racist conspiracy-monger, isn't it?
You see, Mr. President? If you don't fire these FBI guys, it really makes you look complicit and stupid.
Just trying to help, Mr. President. You really would have a problem with looking stupid, I hope.
Van Jones is a Quitter - FS
If these people in the
September 7, 2009 - 23:13 ET by NL207If these people in the Obama Administration, Obama included, lied any harder, their teeth would fall out.
Of course they threw Jones under the bus. And they did so in an effort to minimize his reflection on them. Axelrod is a liar. this resignation was no more Jones' idea than Axelrod is the Pope. This resignation was dmage control. Read that Emanuel and Axelrod.
NL... Damage control
September 7, 2009 - 23:23 ET by bigtimerNL...
Damage control indeed as more and more was coming out, the Columbine video the most recent...clear him out of the way to not interfere with the One's blather coming out three days in a row dontcha know!
..and they think plan B is going to help his polling numbers....
LMAO!
'Go Green...Recycle Congress'
Smoke and mirrors
September 7, 2009 - 23:23 ET by RESTLESS 1I in no way believe the SF Chronicle that the 0 had no knowledge of vj's background. Let's not start celebrating yet! Etnernal vigilance is required now.
Yes, vj was thrown under the bus, but this only makes me more wary of his successor. C'mon, 42 effin czars??? This was a diversion.
"If the man, with the power, can't keep it under control...some heads are gonna roll." -Judas Priest
Obama Czars are like fine
September 7, 2009 - 23:40 ET by NL207Obama Czars are like fine cigars. Light them up and smoke them, but please, don't keep them in Bill Clinton's humidor!
Think Beck is going to stop with this t*rd? I don't. Carol Browner has more junk in her trunk than Hillary. We need to keep up the pressure on these Marxists. The really stupid people in the middle class don't get it about Obama yet. Our job is to inform them.
e.g. I know a middle class woman whose family is overextended in consumer debt and has been experienceing a steadily declining income as the labor market in our region has eroded. She and her husband voted Obama because they actually believed Obama would help them with their bills [they earn far too much compared to their bills to receive any public assistance]. 9 months into Obama's administration, they finally realize he isn't going to help them at all. They still believe Obama's lies about only taxing incomes greater than 250K and believe they will not have their taxes increased. They still support Obama and the Democrats. When the Bush tax cuts expire on Jan 1, 2010, their taxes are going to go up. It is my hope this dose of reality will finally turn them against Obama. When these and other people like them finally leave his camp, his Presidency is as good as over.
Information is our friend. Obama was elected as much by a news blackout of his past and his character as anything else. Shine a strong light on this cockroach and his associates and they will run for cover.
NL
September 8, 2009 - 00:30 ET by MrShy"The really stupid people in the middle class don't get it about Obama yet. Our job [NB's] is to inform them."
I'm making that my next facebook status. :)
An aside... Re: OBL, I guess we'll revisit that one in 10 years or so. :p Let's all hope he's as close to dead as possible.
Stupid may be a harsh term,
September 8, 2009 - 00:38 ET by NL207Stupid may be a harsh term, but these folks actually believe this impossible tripe Obama spins. Anyone with an ounce of common sense can see that Obama is lying. Yet there are literally millions of people who believe what he says in spite of the glaring contradictions in his various positions.
NL
September 8, 2009 - 00:41 ET by MrShyWell then, that sounds plenty enough like stupid to me. I am now waiting for the facebook backlash, but I don't give a rat's backside anymore.
WRT OBL, It is my fervent
September 8, 2009 - 00:44 ET by NL207WRT OBL, It is my fervent wish that we may have ringside seats at his demise. I can think of no better way that justice might be served than to publicly hang this man at the site of the Twin Towers.
I understand your frustration and anger
September 8, 2009 - 08:34 ET by JayHBut I don't know if your seeing people as stupid will help our cause. Yes, it is sad that as a country we have delegated our watchdog role and we are incredibly apathetic and uninformed. Anyone who doesn't believe that indoctrination doesn't already happen in gov't schools is just kidding themselves... the left is hugely winning in many important respects while we have been lazy.
However, I think to believe and or call the uninformed stupid is not helpful. While I have held conservative viewpoints forever, I really didn't see much difference in what the two parties offered. Also, while I knew SRM held a liberal bias, I didn't think that they would go out of their way in the extent that they do in order to push an agenda (they have utterly lost their way). So, was I naive and stupid? ABSOLUTELY! But the only way for people to come along and have the lights turn on is for them to see it! And, being dismissed as stupid - which is somewhat inaccurate because most are not stupid, they have taken the country for granted and work on other things - most likely will not help.
Also, I think placing blame on anyone but oneself is relatively unproductive (realizing that this is currently not the "American" way). Have Republicans really been standing for the party platform? Have activists really been doing what they can? I think there is enough blame to spread around... the solution and victory will come when we all take responsibility for the problems. (Ha - sounds collectivist is thinking, but I am not.)
Of course, you probably have done a great job for the conservative cause, and again I can completely see your frustration with people like me (or 4-month-ago-me). And, since we're on a website of righties, I can see how you would voice your frustration, looking for empathy. I do empathize. But, I want to encourage you to keep fighting the good fight by seeing the good and massive potential in others (even when obscurred) because we all depend on it!
this cannot end right here
September 7, 2009 - 23:16 ET by candanceWe conservies are not content to take VJ's "scalp" and run with it. It has nothing to do with bringing people down just for the heck of it. We don't just want to know who Jones is - we want to know why Obama hired him and what Obama knew. The world is full of wackos on both sides, but they have no business running the government.
To quote the great GB:
The American people stood up and demanded answers. Instead of providing them, the Administration had Jones resign under cover of darkness.
Obama says there was no vetting, but the FBI says there was. Which is it?
Jones is no different than
September 7, 2009 - 23:24 ET by NL207Jones is no different than many, if not most, of the Czars Obama has appointed. These people are all political hacks from the extreme left of the Democratic Party. The only reason Jones became controversial is that his past positions were clearly exposed in a National forum. Obama himself would have been rejected at the polls in November if the MSM had done their jobs and reported all of his past position statements.
Beck could make a nice living simply exposing these wackos one at a time. Carol Browner is a self avowed Socialist with a lengthy history. It ought to be easy to blot her out right now.
"Obama says there was no
September 7, 2009 - 23:37 ET by Indiana Joe"Obama says there was no vetting, but the FBI says there was. Which is it?"
Great question, candance. Boiled down, it comes to this:
Who do you trust more: Obama, or the FBI?
Hmmmm.......
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams
CanCan
September 8, 2009 - 00:35 ET by MrShyAnd that quote is slotted right after NL's. I'm making you guys famous with my wonderful, predominantly lib-based facebook crowd. :) You're welcome.
EDIT: First GB's, then your final line. Cx2, you're getting a double feature!
I don't know what would be worse.
September 8, 2009 - 22:59 ET by CobraMan"Obama says there was no vetting, but the FBI says there was."
I don't know what would be worse: the idea that Obama's administration isn't vetting people who greatly affect his policy, or the idea that Obama's lying about the vetting and is afraid to admit it?
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.
The US Constitution
Unless you're a fetus.
The US Supreme Court
Wow, Van Jones a soul mate of Jeremiah Wright.
September 7, 2009 - 23:26 ET by needleAND a natural associate for Obama. What a surprise!
- Relying upon the State Run Media for your information is like relying upon an embezzler for your portfolio management.
The whole BO admin is so
September 7, 2009 - 23:48 ET by marpelThe whole BO admin is so slimey...like a bucket of writhing eels...eeww!
Speaking in defense of eels
September 7, 2009 - 23:58 ET by Indiana JoeSpeaking in defense of eels everywhere, I take great offense at that comparison.
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams
What did Obama know, and When did he know it?
September 8, 2009 - 00:02 ET by Free StinkerWhat did Obama know, and When did he know it?
-
September 8, 2009 - 03:42 ET by merkavaI came across that indybay page last week too, here's the 'newspaper' PDF of the event.
Even better though, I discovered a short amount of video footage in the form of a 5 minute 'Real Media' file called Stronger Than Bombs. He appears at 4:38:
--------
"It's the bombs that the government has been dropping around the world that are now blowing up inside the U.S. borders. We've got something stronger than bombs, we have solidarity, that dream of revolutionary change is stronger than bombs."
--------
Beware, the singing moonbat soundtrack will make your ears bleed.
Thanks ....
September 8, 2009 - 10:25 ET by Tom Blumer.... I am uploading the vid to YouTube, and will post shortly at BizzyBlog.
YouTube
BizzyBlog
obama is so fickle
September 8, 2009 - 04:15 ET by sarainitalyHe amazes me.... He hangs out with, and hires these kinds of people, and at the first sign of controversy, he tosses them under the bus.
Does he think we are too stupid to find out who these people are?
Or is he too stupid to find out who they are?
Why does he befriend these radicals, but then runs from them at the first sign of controversy?
He told us, if we want to know who he is, look at his friends. Well, I have been looking for some time now, and I understand who he is. Does he even know?
Or is he too stupid …?
September 8, 2009 - 06:47 ET by needleI think Obama is like the bank robber who writes his hold-up note on the back of his own stationary.
He hires these communists and other criminals (tax cheats, for example) who are nearly perfect reflections of himself; and then when the man with the mask see the mob tear apart his reflection without a mask, he gets scared and rejects his reflection. Each time this happens the mask gets more complicated.
There is a denouement in here somewhere… Ya think?
- Relying upon the State Run Media for your information is like relying upon an embezzler for your portfolio management.
September 8, 2009 - 10:14 ET by jessieHAnd they call whites hate filled racists.....
Enemies of America are
September 8, 2009 - 10:54 ET by mattmEnemies of America are running this country.
I wonder how he would have
September 8, 2009 - 11:28 ET by b4m4wyI wonder how he would have felt if one of the planes hit Sear's Tower instead?
Government's first duty is to protect the people, not run their lives.
Ronald Reagan
The quoted remarks of Jones
September 8, 2009 - 12:08 ET by JerThe quoted remarks of Jones were stunningly idiotic, but, out of curiousity, what exactly is the definition of a 9/11 "truther"? My understanding of the term would render the labeling of Jones a "truther" to be inconsistent with his statements cited here--which seem to recognize 9/11 was fomented by Islamic radicals [or at least by foreign adversaries and not by our own government] yet offer an explanation for the attack, albeit a misguided one.
Jer
Figuring out nutty thought processes is tough, but ....
September 8, 2009 - 12:32 ET by Tom Blumer.... You can still probably think that America deserved it, even if you subscribe to the Truther belief that the govt. knew they were coming and didn't stop it -- or even more extreme, that the govt. knew they were coming, didn't stop it, and rigged explosives to enhance the destruction.
That's part of VJ's
September 8, 2009 - 12:41 ET by HockeyKidThat's part of VJ's problem--he's apparently held to at least 3 different positions re: 9/11, depending on when you listen to him. Either 1) we brought it on ourselves, and/or 2) the Bush Administration knew about the impending attacks and covered up, or 3) the Bush Administration cooked the whole thing up.
I tend to agree that #3 is the position taken by so-called "truthers", but Jones apparently doesn't disagree with that position--at least, not all the time. Or sometimes. Or something. Pick a speech and go from there.
"Beauty is only skin deep, but liberal's to the bone." - me
keep up with us, Jer
September 8, 2009 - 12:49 ET by candanceDirectly after 9/11 Jones decried it as something we deserved. Later, as the truther movement became popular, Jones jumped on that bandwagon as well.
I'm only one lonely guy,
September 8, 2009 - 13:29 ET by JerI'm only one lonely guy, candance...I had to let my research staff go during the Bush economic downturn. ;-)
The use of the word "deserved" is a stretch. Jones never used it. I would agree there are links to the "Truthers", but somewhat tenuous and undefined. His views appear to be more in alignment with those who believe, not that 9/11 was an inside job orchestrated by our government, but rather a tragic event inappropriately used as a crutch to justify foreign intervention.
Silly and naive, to be sure, but not necessarily the whack-job anti-American Maoist as Jones is being portrayed. Anyway, he's gone.
Jer
OH, for cryin' out loud, Jer ...
September 8, 2009 - 14:02 ET by Tom Blumer... if you can't get "deserved it" out of this ....
“It’s the bombs that the government has been dropping around the world that are now blowing up inside the U.S. borders.”
.... you can't read.
Since to him and all others at the rally the government's bombs elsewhere have been bad, the 9/11 attacks were in their minds justifiable. Thus, we "deserved" it.
It really isn't that difficult.
→ Blumer
September 8, 2009 - 14:07 ET by Cool ArrowIsn't it obvious?
If a preacher says "America's chickenzzzz...Are coming home to roost!"
What he's really saying is that American chickens don't like foreign henhouses.
But that doesn't mean we deserve those chickens, it just means they have a right to roost here.
Hope that explains it.
Van Jones is a Quitter - FS
Tom Blumer...
September 8, 2009 - 15:15 ET by JerIn other words, if a carload of teenagers were killed in a crash, and I said "well that's what happens when they're liquored up and going 90 mph on a dangerous mountain road at two o'clock in the morning", such statement must be interpreted as my belief they deserved to die. I am offering an explanation for the consequences of reckless conduct, not suggesting it justifies their death or that it was "deserved".
I disagree vehemently with Jones characterization of our government's conduct, and disagree [albeit more moderately] with your choice of words.
You're right about one thing though. It really isn't that difficult. And I read very well, but thanks for your concern.
Jer
→ Well, Jer
September 8, 2009 - 15:21 ET by Cool ArrowIt certainly does put your spin on the events.
All you offer as fact is: "if a carload of teenagers were killed in a crash"
But then your "opinion" adds the "90 mph" and the "liquored up"
Yes, Jer. your embellishment of facts not in evidence is an opinion they had it coming.
Van Jones is a Quitter - FS
Not exactly, Cool... I'm
September 8, 2009 - 15:40 ET by JerNot exactly, Cool...
I'm merely expanding the hypothesis to include additional assumed facts, producing a conclusory inference. The issue is the interpretation of the inference.
Jer
→ Assumed facts?
September 8, 2009 - 15:48 ET by Cool ArrowYou mean like rumors?
Kidding, Jer. I understand now that you inferred additional facts were presented in the news.
But since you neither stated nor implied that information was fact, I had great latitude.
Van Jones is a Quitter - FS
And so...
September 8, 2009 - 15:49 ET by FeynmanFanAnd so another discussion of current events is dragged down a rhetorical tangent and rendered completely useless...
"I support the President but not his policies" - Blonde
How so? The allegation
September 8, 2009 - 15:55 ET by JerHow so? The allegation that Jones said we "deserved" 9/11 is a very serious charge. And it's not some minor side issue. It's the headline of the blog.
Jer
Sorry, Jer. Not going to play.
September 8, 2009 - 16:10 ET by FeynmanFanYou're trying to make this a semantic issue when it's obvious to the majority of people what Jones meant by his statement. I'm sure Jones appreciates you taking up his defense, but as far as most people who read his statement are concerned, he said we deserved 9/11.
Have a good evening.
"I support the President but not his policies" - Blonde
→ Feynman
September 8, 2009 - 16:21 ET by Cool ArrowI think, rather than spending his time in a city office building, Jer would feel safer among those "wise inner-city youths" Van Jones talked about.
Wonder where he'd feel his family members would be safer? After all, those planes didn't target Jones' "inner city youths".
Van Jones is a Quitter - FS
My family and I reside in a
September 8, 2009 - 16:26 ET by JerMy family and I reside in a concrete bunker thirty feet below ground level in an undisclosed location.
Jer
→ Great digs, man
September 8, 2009 - 16:34 ET by Cool ArrowGlenn Beck lives next door?
Van Jones is a Quitter - FS
Thanks, Cool...I needed that.
September 8, 2009 - 16:44 ET by JerThat actually made me laugh--out loud. A welcome change from the near-constant NB scowl I've worn for the past few days.
Jer
→ No problem
September 8, 2009 - 16:56 ET by Cool ArrowGenerally, I'll argue with a fence post.
But I may be losing it. The other day, the fence post said "don't wee-wee on me and tell me it's a spring shower."
Van Jones is a Quitter - FS
Cool...Same here.
September 8, 2009 - 17:02 ET by JerSame here. I'm concerned though. According to Free Stinker, since my return the fence post is ahead of me 8-1.
Jer
No problem. I condemned
September 8, 2009 - 16:23 ET by JerNo problem. I condemned Jones' remarks. I took issue with headlining something Jones neither said nor was an appropriate inference from his quoted statements. As a consequence, I was told I couldn't read.
Hope you have a good evening, too, FF.
Jer
~Let's settle this
September 8, 2009 - 16:26 ET by choselife3xJer,
What would be an appropriate inference from his quoted statements?
Dissent: It's not just for liberals anymore.-kudzupolitics, USA Today
chose...
September 8, 2009 - 16:34 ET by JerThat it was always a possible consequence of provocative conduct. As I said, I disagree strongly with Jones' view regarding the propriety of our conduct under Clinton and Bush. But I have yet to be convinced Jones believes we deserved 9/11 and the attendant deaths and destruction.
Jer
→ Thanks, Jer
September 8, 2009 - 16:37 ET by Cool ArrowSo, in buying Saudi oil, we "provoked" a bunch of Saudi youths to attack us.
Brilliant!
Uh Oh! The Chinese are going to attack next, aren't they? We're buying a bunch of their stuff right now.
Van Jones is a Quitter - FS
You're welcome, Cool..
September 8, 2009 - 18:49 ET by JerWhatever you're talking about.
Forgive the use of a couple of legal terms.
Jones atrributes 9/11 to malfeasance and/or misfeasance by Clinton and Bush. O'Reilly attributes 9/11 to nonfeasance by Clinton [he later added some slight criticism of Bush's nonfeasance.]
Jones: active conduct, which was wrong and produced unfortunate consequences
O'Reilly: passive conduct, which was wrong and produced unfortunate consequences.
In neither instance should it be inferred that both Jones and O'Reilly, or either one, believe we got what we deserved on 9/11.
Jer
~How much more explicit would he have to get?
September 8, 2009 - 16:50 ET by choselife3x“It’s the bombs that the government has been dropping around the world that are now blowing up inside the U.S. borders.”
A recurring theme of the speakers was the brutal violence committed by or supported
by the United States government on a daily basis. "The bombs the government
drops in Iraq are the bombs that blew up in New York City," said Van Jones,
director of the Ella Baker Center for Human Rights, who also warned against forthcoming
violence by the Bush Administration. "The US cannot bomb its way out of this
one. Safety at home requires justice abroad."
So you disagree with his premise, while holding the belief that he didn't mean what it sounds like he meant?
When you see one kid sucker punch another kid and the first kid's excuse is "Well, he started it." is he not saying the kid he punched deserved it?
Dissent: It's not just for liberals anymore.-kudzupolitics, USA Today
chose...
September 8, 2009 - 17:44 ET by JerDo you believe that Jones claimed that those who were killed on 9/11 deserved to die; or that we, as a nation, deserved this tragedy; or that Clinton and Bush deserved it; I recall Bill O'Reilly claiming Clinton had the "blood of the 3000 murdered victims of 9/11 on his hands". Is BOR therefore claiming Clinton deserved to have this awful deed take place because of his malfeasance? Blame can be attributed for conduct without necessarily endorsing the consequences of the bad behavior. However, the very usage of the word "deserves" carries such endorsement.
Since Jones never used the word "deserve" in any form--and Mr. Blumer does--I think some explanation is in order regarding who Mr. Blumer thinks Jones believes deserves what.
Jer
~Jer
September 8, 2009 - 18:07 ET by choselife3xWhat he said on tape was:
"It's the bombs that the government has been dropping around the world that are now blowing up inside the U.S. borders.”
This says to me that he blames the United States collectively (as our government represent us, the American people) and the government in particular for bombs blowing up here. His words and deeds lead me to conclude that in his eyes the US as a whole deserves to have bad things happen to it.
"The US cannot bomb its way out of this
one. Safety at home requires justice abroad."
We are not safe, therefore the US has been "unjust abroad". The whole theme of the gathering he spoke at was--
Hundreds of people gathered at
Snow Park in Oakland tonight to mourn, provide support for each other, and speak
out against violent United States policies at home and abroad, which they say
are the underlying reasons for unprecedented terrorist attacks in New York City
and Washington DC.
It was our fault. So he's saying it's our fault..but he's not saying we deserve it?
Dissent: It's not just for liberals anymore.-kudzupolitics, USA Today
chose...
September 8, 2009 - 18:33 ET by JerI'm repeating myself, but criticizing conduct is not the same as saying the consequences are deserved--just as O'Reilly's blaming Clinton for 9/11 doesn't mean he thinks we as a nation deserved it. I think BOR was wrong to blame Clinton, and Jones was wrong to blame the government...and that included Clinton and Bush.
Jer
~You are convinced you're right
September 8, 2009 - 18:39 ET by choselife3xI'm convinced I'm right...the status quo is maintained. :-)
Dissent: It's not just for liberals anymore.-kudzupolitics, USA Today
Jer: Forgive me if this has
September 8, 2009 - 17:05 ET by QueenMumJer: Forgive me if this has already been posted. The full text of the petition that Jones signed.
How can you defend this?
Added for emphasis: Pay particular attention to this portion.
"Who created, trained and funded the Al Qaeda Network?
What is the relationship between Bin Laden, his family and the Bush family
and the Carlyle Group? Why were no fighter planes dispatched to intercept
the four hijacked planes on September 11h , in violation of standard procedures?
Who actually was in control of the "hijacked planes"? What is
the U.S. relationship with Pakistan, and especially with its intelligence
service, the ISI? Why did the then director of the ISI have $100,000 transferred
to the man whom the FBI now calls the ringleader of the Sept. 11th attacks,
and why does the U.S. not pursue this question? Did the CIA have foreknowledge
of the attack, who tried to profit with put options on American, United,
Merrill Lynch stock just before the attack? Why were the FBI told to not
investigate the Bin Laden family links in the US? If the CIA met with Bin
Laden last July, why didn't they try to arrest him?"
The above is conspiracy junk that has been firmly debunked and discredited. And yet, Van Jones who's supposed to be such a major intellect, signed onto this nonsense.
"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out
of other people's money."
—Margaret Thatcher
QM... Oh come on...Jones
September 8, 2009 - 17:15 ET by bigtimerQM...
Oh come on...Jones has used the excuse he didn't really know what he was signing...or some-such blather....but he's the smartest guy in the room according to the O-Crew, let alone Jones himself.
'Go Green...Recycle Congress'
Right you are, bt
September 8, 2009 - 17:57 ET by QueenMumYou'd think that someone that "smart and savvy" would read something before he signed it.
"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out
of other people's money."
—Margaret Thatcher
I can't. Jones doesn't.
September 8, 2009 - 17:22 ET by JerI can't. Jones doesn't. He claims to have been unfamiliar with some of the more incendiary allegations in the petition and rejects them as not reflective of his views. I'ts somewhat disingenuous but not entirely implausible. Others have said their names were added without their knowlegde or permission. At the time, many were clamoring for an investigation of the events of 9/11 which was being resisted by the Bush administration but eventually authorized. I am sure that Jones along with millions of others endorsed the idea.
Now, please don't communicate with me again unless and until you demonstrate your integrity.
Jer
Jer... If you have an IQ
September 8, 2009 - 17:31 ET by bigtimerJer...
If you have an IQ of at least room temperature you don't sign anything you do not understand or are familiar with...you very well know that.
Give me a break...and he's supposed to be a wealth of knowledge to-boot.
It's comical if it weren't so serious the people O is surrounding himself with...then again, they are just exact reflections of him.
Btw...do you have a link of the other not-so-smart people who claim their names were added without their permission, with their proof of such?
'Go Green...Recycle Congress'
Are you admitting you
September 8, 2009 - 17:49 ET by JerAre you admitting you didn't read the links and related links provided by Mr. Blumer before you popped in and started commenting? Do so, and then get back to me.
Jer
bt: You heard him.
September 8, 2009 - 18:10 ET by QueenMumbt: You heard him. Chop-chop. Get to clicking. :0
"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out
of other people's money."
—Margaret Thatcher
Mum... Laugh is all I can
September 8, 2009 - 18:20 ET by bigtimerMum...
Laugh is all I can do...and consider the source.
'Go Green...Recycle Congress'
Jer -
September 8, 2009 - 17:49 ET by FeynmanFanThere's no question that Jones signed the petition, so that is moot.
As to whether his being unfamiliar with some of the contents of the petition absolves him of responsibility for the implications of signing the document, I think he's on the hook for everything in the document. I'm pretty sure that if someone signs a contract, they can't go back later and say they were unfamiliar with certain terms and therefore weren't signing up for them. By putting his name to the petition, he was endorsing everything in the document.
"I support the President but not his policies" - Blonde
But of course this wasn't a
September 8, 2009 - 18:20 ET by JerBut of course this wasn't a contract so there is no legal obligation to be enforced, only the risk of one being associated intellectually and philosophically with certain ideas, positions, or assertions which may in fact not be entirely consonant with his or her views. There may be no adverse consequences attached to inattention, save embarrassment, or there may be a much more significant and publicized impact, such as that reflected by the unpleasant fate of Mr. Jones.
But, in any case, he is entitled to explain himself, and the public is permitted to judge the plausibility of his explanation. I would fire him if it were my call, because of the statements which he plainly made a few years ago, and for his palpable carelessness, but not for possible beliefs we can only inferentially attribute to him.
Jer
Thanks, Jer
September 8, 2009 - 18:31 ET by FeynmanFanI think we've finally cut to the chase:
Jones explained himself, the majority of the public found his explanation implausible and he lost his job.
End of story.
"I support the President but not his policies" - Blonde
Jer
September 8, 2009 - 23:43 ET by MrShyWhen does DYARCADPO* fatigue finally set in with you and your ilk? Yes, by your many words, I'm sorry to say you are part of an ilk. And I'm fully prepared for the wrath that is Jer's fragile ego for that one.
(* Defending Yet Another Radical Con Artist Dreg Pal of Obama's Fatigue)
Shy...
September 8, 2009 - 23:48 ET by JerSeveral hours ago, but you just re-energized me.
I'm just curious how you and your "ilk" can interpret "I vehemently disagree with Jones and would fire him if it were my call" is DEFENDING him. And yet I'm the one accused of not being able to read.
You whacky conservatives. At least you're entertaining. ;-)
Jer
Jer
September 9, 2009 - 00:47 ET by MrShyYou're being dishonest again.
You're using up this entire thread trying to soften up the deeds of Van Jones "just a little", but turning and telling us you "vehemently disagree" with him. If it's vehement, why this wiggle room, and all your time invested giving him this benefit of the doubt?
Shy... Just put a lid on
September 9, 2009 - 01:15 ET by JerShy...
Just put a lid on the "dishonest" crap--now. Please. After my initial comment, my thread usage was devoted to trying my best to respond to the questions that various posters were asking. Would you prefer I just post and run?
I've explained the reasons for my opinion several times. If you disagree with it, I understand. But continually playing the 'dishonesty card' is really getting old.
Jer
Jer
September 9, 2009 - 02:23 ET by MrShyDishonest Jer.
Shy
September 9, 2009 - 03:11 ET by JerShy...
I feel sorry for you. I really do. Whatever is bothering you, I sincerely hope you can get it resolved soon. For the time being, I think it would be best if we just avoided one another.
Best of luck,
Jer
Deleted by author. "The
September 8, 2009 - 18:23 ET by QueenMumDeleted by author.
"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out
of other people's money."
—Margaret Thatcher
→ Jer
September 8, 2009 - 16:33 ET by Cool ArrowOK, let's cut to the chase.
You are telling us that, it is not stated, nor hinted, anywhere in the Jones remarks presented, that America is in any way deserving of 9-11.
I'll take a "yes" or "no" without equivocation.
PS. I seriously doubt a newspaper would describe dead car-crash victims as "liquored up". That's an observation a reader might make by way of passing judgement. Do you disagree?
Van Jones is a Quitter - FS
Cool...
September 8, 2009 - 16:37 ET by JerYes.
Jer
→ Thanks, Jer
September 8, 2009 - 16:51 ET by Cool ArrowYet, in a post above you use the words "provocative conduct" in a "should have expected it" sort of way.
Interesting.
Van Jones is a Quitter - FS
Well, I would have
September 8, 2009 - 16:55 ET by JerWell, I would have preferred to have given you a qualified "yes", but I was trying to follow instructions.
Jer
Jer
September 8, 2009 - 23:26 ET by MrShyYou SURE you're not my brother?
Just scoured the internet looking for a direct quote where Jones said "the USA deserved 9/11". Show it to me.
-- my brother on facebook... Some NB'ers here can tell you all about it. :p
Speaking of, Cx2, I emailed you.
The problem with your take ....
September 9, 2009 - 06:35 ET by Tom Blumer.... is that by your standards, you could probably contort yourself into claiming that Jeremiah Wright didn't say we deserved it either. C'mon.
By your standards, it seems that anyone who doesn't specifically say we had it comin' or deserved it can't possibly be interpreted to have said so.
You can't possibly watch the video referred to in the update and not believe that Van Jones said in effect that the 9/11 attacks happened as a consequence of the bombs we dropped around the world, i.e., we had it comin', i.e., we deserved it.
Tom...
September 9, 2009 - 12:09 ET by JerThe following is the relevant wording from your blog:
"...avowed Communist Jones publicly declared that the U.S. deserved what happened. I'm not kidding." [emphasis yours]
I will pose to you the analogy I've presented to others. Bill O'Reilly claimed 9/11 occurred--and nearly 3000 American lives were lost--as a consequence of Bill Clinton's policies: lack of attention to terrorism and his failure to get Bin laden, including ineffectual missile strikes.
In light of that, are you suggesting that O'Reilly {in the words you use regarding Jones statement} "said in effect...we had it comin', i.e. we deserved it."?
Once again, I want to make it crystal clear that I don't endorse Jones' words or share his opinion, in fact, I strongly disagree with him. However, you have yet to convince me it's not you who is the word contortionist.
Jer
→ No Jer
September 9, 2009 - 12:16 ET by Cool ArrowAs a result of Bill Clinton's policy of treating the World Trade Center bombing as a criminal offense, the US was insufficiently prepared for another terrorist attack.
Van Jones is a Quitter - FS
So 9/11 was
September 9, 2009 - 12:32 ET by JerSo 9/11 was the consequence of Clinton's errors, whether of commission or omission. Well, by golly, in that case I guess we deserved what we got.
The only difference being you believe Clinton wasn't aggressive enough, and Jones believes he was too aggressive.
Jer
→ Jer
September 9, 2009 - 12:44 ET by Cool Arrow9-11 was a consequence of Clinton's errors. I won't go so far as you and say it was the consequence.
I'll take it from your defense of Jones that you also agree with Ann Coulter.
Van Jones is a Quitter - FS
Check again, Cool...It's
September 9, 2009 - 16:36 ET by JerCheck again, Cool...It's not what I said. I'm summarizing what the anti-Clinton politcal Right has always maintained.
I've hardly defended Jones, unless vehemently disagreeing with his assertions and saying I would have fired him somehow qualifies as a defense. I have objected to what in my opinion is an improper inference drawn from those assertions. You are way too smart not to see the distincton.
And, please, show me a little more courtesy than associating me with Coulter's repellent comment about the Jersey girls.
Jer
of course, Jer
September 8, 2009 - 14:15 ET by candanceThat's a pretty big serving of benefit-of-the-doubt you have there. Jones signed two different petitions in support of trutherism.
But nah, you're right, everyone signs random petitions they don't really agree with. I can't tell you how many times that's happened to me.
Anyway, he's gone.
Yeah, he's moved on to leftwing martyrdom. The MSM has blatantly taken his side, calling Glenn Beck a racist and reviving the theme of the right wing terrorist on the prowl for hapless Democrats to scalp.
So basically, your entire approach is that Jones was a nice guy who made a little mistake, and conservies should now drop it since they got their way with having him fired.
Is that about right?
yeah...well...
September 8, 2009 - 16:29 ET by stage9all that said...can someone please tell me why not one single news organization anywhere on the planet ever brought out the atrocities the Iraqi people were constantly enduring under Sadaam's regime?
I remember hearing a story right after 9/11 of an interview with a guy who was on the Iraqi soccer team and the torture some team members would endure from Uday. (hey what do you know, I found it: http://www.csmonitor...)
There is another site: http://www.digital-a...
None of this information was ever really brought out to its fullest extent. All we ever heard were the propagandistic terms: US invasion (which paints a picture of Roman legions conquering distant lands), US occupation, and other colorful liberal terms designed to paint the war as a horrible atrocity.
Yet, the true atrocities have never, to this day, ever been investigated or brought out.
Even today, there are Christian groups being brutally murdered for simply abandoning the "religion of pieces" for the Christian faith.
Word to the PC MSM: If you leave Islam, you die. Period. If you don't convert to Islam. You die. Period. Following the theme?
"If God is dead, somebody is going to have to take his place. It will
be megalomania or erotomania, the drive for power or the drive for
pleasure, the clenched fist or the phallus, Hitler or Hugh Hefner."
— Malcolm Muggeridge
Divide/Conquer
September 8, 2009 - 16:36 ET by bigtimerstage...
Fox did cover some of that...but like you say, it has been absolutely atrocious what the majority of the msm has intentionally omitted...let's don't forget the mass graves either.
Destruction and power is all that matters to the left...they got it, they will fail, heck, they are now, what is at least somewhat satisfying is they are doing by their own lonesomes.
'Go Green...Recycle Congress'