The "Reliable Source" gossips at the Washington Post reported Wednesday morning that not only will Speaker Nancy Pelosi attend several White House events around the papal visit, but also "Look for Pelosi and Sen. John Kerry, who plan to take Communion along with 46,000 faithful at the service." Liberals in the media won't see this as scandalous news, but traditional Catholics do.
Politicians who vote and speak out in support of abortion and homosexuality are promoting sexual sin and are dramatically opposed to Church teaching. The American Life League made a newspaper ad asking Pope Benedict to deny Communion to 21 of the "most egregious offenders" on abortion, including Pelosi and Kerry on their list.
Several American bishops have been presented as "controversial" by the media for proclaiming in 2004 that John Kerry would be refused Communion if he came to receive it in their churches. The TV networks warned of a backlash against the church from people who thought Kerry was being "bullied" by bishops. He was a "devout Catholic," they proclaimed, despite his advocacy of libertine-left positions.
Then there's Speaker Pelosi, who proclaimed last year to CNSNews.com that an ad for a San Francisco leather festival mocking a painting of Christ's Last Supper with sex toys and fetish gear wasn't anti-religious: "I do not believe that Christianity has been harmed by the Folsom Street Fair advertising." But she came into office being hailed by the media as a "devout Catholic" as well.
Comments Policy
This is where the liberals'
April 16, 2008 - 12:34 ET by ThisnThatThis is where the liberals' "don't impose your values on me" argument really hits the road, isn't it? According to liberals, there is only one value system that's important -- the one you have. No one else has an input; not society, not your parents, not your community, nothing. Only you.
So, Kerry and Pelosi are extending this to the Church's traditions, values, and biblical guidance. "None of these apply" they say; and they try, publically and without concience, to take another step into tearing those principles apart.
These two are shameless. The Pope needs to call them on it and make it clear -- whimsical values based on nothing are not appropriate at an event like this. I hope he does.
___________________________________
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it is in English, thank a Soldier. - My barber
Asking Forgiveness For The Obvious
April 16, 2008 - 15:47 ET by zeestephenPerhaps Pelosi and Kerry are taking communion to expiate their support for abortion and homosexuality.
Taking communion does not
April 16, 2008 - 16:31 ET by motherbeltTaking communion does not "expiate" their support of abortion and homosexuality. One is required to do be in a state of grace before receiving Communion (Sacrament of Reconciliation).
Let's not cherry pick the issues...
April 16, 2008 - 12:36 ET by SyriusTim,
If anyone supports the death penalty, torture, and a host of other issues against the teachings of the Church should also be lumped into the same group.
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
in other words, if anyone
April 16, 2008 - 12:40 ET by TruthMongerin other words, if anyone supports abortion they should have no problems with the death penalty, torture, and a host of other issues against the teachings of the Church
The beautiful thing about being me than you...
April 16, 2008 - 13:09 ET by SyriusTruthie,
If you're a Catholic who supports the death penalty, you shouldn't be allowed to receive communion. It's that simple.
What's the Aquinas point value for abortion? The death penalty? adultery? I know there's a point system for marriage, widowhood, and virginity.
I can oppose or support the death penalty, abortion, and anything else for that matter...I have the freedom to choose. No one is telling me I have to choose one over the other. I've got no pope, king, dictator, or anyone to tell me what I'm allowed to choose or think. Unless, of course, Truthie, you'd like to impose your will upon me. Then you're in for one hell of a fight.
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
If that's their tenet
April 16, 2008 - 13:32 ET by Hero Squad"If you're a Catholic who supports the death penalty, you shouldn't be allowed to receive communion. It's that simple."
If that's their tenet, then you are correct. The Catholic Church also refuses to give communion to people who are divorced (unless the marriage is annulled), and I'm sure there are other instances, such as the use of birth control, that are frowned upon by the church and would constitute a refusal to receive communion.
Are we certain anyone actually qualifies to receive communion from the Catholic church?
*****
"People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues." - George Will
So true!!!
April 16, 2008 - 13:34 ET by Syrius"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
I'm not RCC - and the
April 16, 2008 - 14:05 ET by TruthMongerI'm not RCC - and the death penalty is Biblically sound
The Catholic Church also
April 16, 2008 - 13:38 ET by motherbeltThe Catholic Church also refuses to give communion to people who are divorced (unless the marriage is annulled)
HS, the Church doesn't refuse Communion to people who obtain civil divorce. It's people who have divorced and remarried, because the second marriage is not recognized as valid.
HS, I was refused
April 16, 2008 - 13:38 ET by LeonHS,
I was refused communion once at a Catholic wedding.
I wasn't paying attention when they asked all Catholics to come forward for communion, so I thought they were just asknig all confirmed Christians (aka me).
I had never taken Catholic communion before so I walked up and stuck my right hand out and waited for the wafer thing. The priest just stood and stared at me. The line behind me got longer, and I just stood there, one hand out. This went on for a solid 30 seconds before I started to get kind of angry, like what is this weirdo's deal.
He never did give me Communion and I just had to sort of slink out of the line. I later learned it was b/c I didn't put out both of my hands.
Didn't realize Jesus cared about which hand I used.
Puhleeeease.
Their Church...their rules.
April 16, 2008 - 14:21 ET by KarmaOut of curiosity, Leon, did you bring up all or any of your recommended changes to Catholisism to the priest and others at the wedding, or do you have an aversion to face-to-face discussions when given the chance?
"wafer thing"...(laughing)...come on Leon, you could have at least looked this up to avoid looking foolish.
"I wasn't paying attention"... (laughing harder)...are you paying attention to what those with more knowledge of the faith are telling you here?
Good thing...
April 16, 2008 - 14:29 ET by SyriusLeon,
If you would have taken a wafer, wafer thin...You would have been converted and then abused. HAAAAA! Did you get to drink the Chianti? At least, they use real vino! Not like the Born Agains who use wheat thins and grape juice!
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
"If you're a Catholic who
April 16, 2008 - 13:35 ET by Dan The Man 2"If you're a Catholic who supports the death penalty, you shouldn't be allowed to receive communion. It's that simple." and I say bull. The Bible supports the peanalty of death when administered by the state. Even Jesus agreed with this and submitted to the state when they wanted to put Him to death. In doing so He was making a statement that the state had the right to do so. He admonished Peter, the first Pope some say, that what is Cesars belongs to Cesar, meaning the state.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
Well said Dan
April 16, 2008 - 13:54 ET by Dee BunkWell said Dan
Ummm...No support for the death penalty.
April 16, 2008 - 14:46 ET by SyriusDan,
Are you a Catholic?
Here's something for you to read if you are...
http://www.americanc...
If you are not a Catholic...and have chosen to be something else...well...you'll be spending sometime in purgatory until God decides on what to do with your soul...So let be written, so let it be done.
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
syrios it doesnt matter if
April 16, 2008 - 16:45 ET by Dan The Man 2syrios it doesnt matter if you are Catholic or Prodestant or whatever the Bible always trumps man. The Pope and Cardinals and Bishops and priests are men and therefore falliable. In fact the Catholics had had many leaders who were more than falliable. The Bible is teh guide Christians follow. I am a Southern Baptist.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
So people that support
April 16, 2008 - 12:46 ET by LeonSo people that support Homosexuality shouldn't be able to take communion?
hmm. That's a bit drastic isn't Tim?
So if you have a gay family member, you can either shun them or be shunned by the church.
Right. That makes perfect sense. What a bunch of hogwash your little article is.
If we extend your logic, I'd be willing to bet 80% of Catholics shouldn't take mass. Shouldn't you also suggest that any adulterers be disallowed from mass? Where does it end?
On a side note, what happens to the Catholic Church when it's proven that homosexuality is biological (aka God made gays)? Wouldn't that mean they've been preaching against God's creation for centuries? Wouldn't that make you question a lot of their other teachings?
Leon, why dont you go to
April 16, 2008 - 12:54 ET by bassndudeLeon, why dont you go to chruch and study some before making an idiot out of yourself with your assumptions and posting on what the Bible teaches and the doctrine of the Church.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
Bass, You should heed your
April 16, 2008 - 13:00 ET by LeonBass,
You should heed your own advice. You're routinely put in your place concerning your ignorance of your own religion.
What assumptions have I made in my post?
1) The Catholic Church teaches against homosexuality as being a sin (which will be interesting to defend when it inevitably comes out that gay is innate)
2) Catholic church teaches against adultery, so if you ban homosexaul supporters from communion, you should do the same to adulterers.
3) If sin is a disqualifier for communion, than my 80% number is way low. It should actually be 100% since Jesus is the only person to never sin.
Where were the assumptions bass? I simply looked at Tim's post and the rules of the church through a lens of logic.
1) homosexual acts are a
April 16, 2008 - 13:05 ET by tater1) homosexual acts are a sin...the church teaches if a person has homosexual tendencies to live a life of chastity
2) If a person publicly supports adultery then you can ban them from communion.
3) Mortal sin is a disqualifier for communion which is why you go to confession to make yourself worthy to recieve it. You can still recieve communion with veneal sins.
Are you sure you know the rules of the church?
By justice a king gives stability to a land; but he who imposes heavy taxes ruins it. -Proverbs 29:4
Tater, 1) We've already
April 16, 2008 - 13:08 ET by LeonTater,
1) We've already discussed this. How can gay be a sin if God made gays?
2) Why does it matter if you publicly support it or not? Committing adultery isn't enough?
3) Oh I see, so it's ok to commit a mortal sin so long as you tell your priest about it. Isn't that convenient.
Gay CAN and IS a sin
April 16, 2008 - 13:24 ET by chiefpayneLeon,
1. It can and is a sin, even IF God made gays because as I said, it is just an obstacle for you to overcome. Doesn't mean you can't have the feelings, but if you ACT on them, you commit the sin. Same as if a heterosexual male or female have sex outside of marriage...it's still a sin. Now if you confess and repent and do it no more, then you can receive communion.
2. It matters if you publicly support it or not because you are in a position of power and are leading others into committing the same sin. If you support adultery OR homosexuality, you are supporting sin which is against the Catholic faith.
3. No it's NOT ok to commit a mortal sin...but if you confess and repent of it, then at least you can save your soul. This does NOT mean that you should not be punished for your crime. It just means that your soul has at least been expunged of the crime committed. What happens to your body is a matter for the law of man.
So, Leon, God makes people
April 16, 2008 - 13:41 ET by motherbeltSo, Leon, God makes people with an inclination to homosexuality? Does he also make people with an inclination to pedophilia? or bestiality? Where does "inclination" stop and "perversion" begin?
MB, Perhaps. The answer
April 16, 2008 - 13:49 ET by LeonMB,
Perhaps. The answer we don't know yet, but it's entirely possible that deviant sexual behavior is the result of biological factors. We simply need more research and some better technology. But that will happen soon.
So, if you believe that God makes all people, than it would mean that God makes peds.
Same thing with serial killers. There is ample evidence that psychopathic behavior is at least partially the result of diminished gray matter in the frontal lobe (i.e. the brake on the car). People with less gray matter are more likely to exhibit anti-social behaviors. Scientists first developed this theory when they noticed several prominent cases (i.e. Phineas Gage), where previously mild mannered people became aggressive and mean after suffering a trauma to their frontal lobe.
Furthermore, tests of people diagnosed with anti-social personality disorder show that they generally have less frontal lobe gray matter than their non psychopathic counter parts.
So theoretically, if diminished frontal lobe capacity is found to be the root cause of anti-social behavior, than it is possible that people can be born 'bad' or 'evil'.
Which again, means that if you believe God created all people, then you would have to believe that God has created evil people.
Leon you say you are a
April 16, 2008 - 14:05 ET by Dan The Man 2Leon you say you are a Christian, perhaps in name only, so you might understand God made Adam and Eve perfect and without sin and flaw. Only when they sinned did their bodies begin to decay and also their bodies began to deviate from what God intended. Defects in teh genetic code and therefore diseases and ailments appeared. This was not God's doing but mans doing. So God did not make us to age and decay and have less than perfect bodies, Satan did and man did.
They conspired and sinned and made our bodies not perfect and to this day we are in decay.
So your assertion God made homosexuals is not true. I also say they make their free will choice and genetics has little to do with it.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
Ah BUT
April 16, 2008 - 14:44 ET by chiefpayneGod also makes people with FREE WILL. Given that, no matter the perverted or unGodly urges you have, you do NOT have to follow them.
And THAT is the whole point of this discussion. People are NOT animals...we had a brain and can CHOOSE to sin or not. If you choose to sin and remain unrepentant about it, then you should have no problem leaving the Catholic church as you will be pitied and preached to about it.
Free will, why would he want us to have it?
April 16, 2008 - 16:50 ET by SyriusCP,
Explain further please...
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
What happens when it's
April 16, 2008 - 12:57 ET by taterWhat happens when it's found that homosexuality isn't biological and more so due to how the child was raised or a traumatic event...and there is more evidence that supports that line of thought. Wouldn't that make you question other so called liberal teachings?
By justice a king gives stability to a land; but he who imposes heavy taxes ruins it. -Proverbs 29:4
Tater, There is not more
April 16, 2008 - 13:06 ET by LeonTater,
There is not more evidence that supports the line of thought you put forth. In fact, there's almost no evidence that supports a purely environmentally cause for homosexuality.
I'd be interested to see if you could even attempt to back up this assertion. Clearly you have little knowledge of any of this research.
In fact, most contemporary research on human sexuality points towards a biological condition as the determing factor. This is simply the reality of the situation.
It is true that there are some people that 'choose' to be gay certainly. I won't deny that. But that's simply not the case for most homosexuals. Their sexual orientation is biological just like every straight person in the world.
Leon, the same statement
April 16, 2008 - 13:22 ET by Ruths husband BenLeon, the same statement could be made in reverse, i.e., that there's almost no evidence that supports a purely genetic cause of homosexuality. The issue is more complex than that. See this.
RHB, No thanks on the
April 16, 2008 - 13:26 ET by LeonRHB,
No thanks on the NARTH.
That was a joke link right?
On your comment about nature v. nurture, you are correct that is certainly an interplay between environment and biology in all behavioral development.
So allow me to be more specific. Sexual orientation is the result of a biological predisposition.
Doesn't WORK that way Leon
April 16, 2008 - 13:06 ET by chiefpayneLeon,
Nonpractising homosexuals can take communion...practising ones should not. Can the practising homosexuals attend mass with their family members...of course they can...they just cannot come forward to receive communion. Many people do not do this because they are visitors to the church...not a big deal there. BTW, adulterers can be refused mass IF they have not confessed the sin and shown repentance for this. As a sidenote, if you are married in the Catholic faith, you cannot divorce your spouse and then marry another and still expect to be given communion. Marriage is forever in the Catholic faith.
On your sidenote that:
"On a side note, what happens to the Catholic Church when it's proven that homosexuality is biological (aka God made gays)? Wouldn't that mean they've been preaching against God's creation for centuries? Wouldn't that make you question a lot of their other teachings? "
Hardly. First of all, IF (not when) it is proven that homosexuality is biological, it merely means God put roadblocks in your way to overcome, the same as if you were born without a hand or an eye. Doesn't mean you have to given in to dispare or just go with the flow. It means you have a personal obstacle to overcome to make you a better person.
Leon, I find it fascinating.
April 16, 2008 - 13:23 ET by SyriusLeon,
Have you noticed the lack of historical references to marriage and the Church? A pagan ritual, common law, and eventually combined into a sacrament of marriage described by the Church. Now, we have someone like chiefpayne telling us "Marriage is forever in the Catholic faith." They really are blind to history and the Church.
What a BS statement by chiefpayne- "First of all, IF (not when) it is proven that homosexuality is
biological, it merely means God put roadblocks in your way to overcome,
the same as if you were born without a hand or an eye. Doesn't mean
you have to given in to dispare or just go with the flow. It means you
have a personal obstacle to overcome to make you a better person."- What an absolute joke! How many Gays do you know, chiefpayne? Don't worry if they touch you, you're not going to turn gay. In order for you to be a better person, CP, is to be a little more non-judgmental, more tolerant and accepting of a person who is gay. WWJD?
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
Ah me
April 16, 2008 - 13:29 ET by chiefpayneSyrius,
I have no fear of touching homosexuals and know quite a few, thank you. That does NOT mean I accept and condone their lifestyle. Ah so you tell me that I need to be "a little more non-judgmental, more tolerant and accepting of a person who is gay" yet YOU do not accept that I do not condone the lifestyle. Tolerance is NOT agreeing with what they do. Catholics have a faith they believe in and certain tenants that we follow. It is made clear, even to the youngest child, that if you cannot follow the tenants, you cannote be considered a practising Catholic. Our religion is what it is...if it's tenants cannot be accepted by homosexuals, then they need to find another religion...simple as that.
WWJD? Jesus would say "Go and SIN NO MORE!"
As an ex-Catholic...
April 16, 2008 - 13:25 ET by Karmachiefpayne,
As an ex-Catholic, I agree with you, except for... As a sidenote, if you are married in the Catholic faith, you cannot divorce your spouse and then marry another and still expect to be given communion. Marriage is forever in the Catholic faith.
Sounds good on paper, but this is far from reality in my observations. I mean really far.
Karma
April 16, 2008 - 13:31 ET by chiefpayneWell, it is still in the tenants of the Catholic faith. There ARE of course exceptions to the rule...i.e. annulment. But for the most part, the tenants are what is followed.
Chief, Hardly. First of
April 16, 2008 - 13:29 ET by LeonChief,
Hardly. First of all, IF (not when) it is proven that homosexuality is biological, it merely means God put roadblocks in your way to overcome, the same as if you were born without a hand or an eye. Doesn't mean you have to given in to dispare or just go with the flow. It means you have a personal obstacle to overcome to make you a better person.
This is the single most hilarious thing I've ever read in my life. As they say, you can't rationalize the irrational.
Just a quick question. Can you think of any similar situations as the one you hilariously outline above where God makes people in sin and then forces them to deny their God-given nature in order to overcome said sin?
Of course Leon
April 16, 2008 - 13:35 ET by chiefpayneThe easiest example is single heterosexual people. God makes both male and female want to have sexual relations prior to marriage. If you do so prior to marriage, THAT is a sin...if you wait until AFTER marriage, that is NOT.
Seems fairly simple, doesn't it Leon?
Chief, Worthless
April 16, 2008 - 13:40 ET by LeonChief,
Worthless example.
The desire to have premarital sex is not the same as biological sexual orientation.
So no, it's not simple. You might be simple, your attempts to find an comparable example are not.
I asked for an apples to apples comparison. If you think that's what you've given me, we might as well just end the conversation here.
Think a simple as possible.
Worthless Example - NOT
April 16, 2008 - 13:55 ET by chiefpayneLeon
I believe what you asked for is "any similar situations as the one you hilariously outline above where God makes people in sin and then forces them to deny their God-given nature in order to overcome said sin? "
I believe I answered that as the desire to have sex, homosexual or not, IS a biological urge which must be forced down to prevent committing sin...or are you saying homosexual desires do NOT equate with heterosexual ones?
Seems to me you are the one who refuses to see an apples to apples comparison.
Chief, The example you're
April 16, 2008 - 14:02 ET by LeonChief,
The example you're outlining involves the choice of sin. You are born without being in sin and as you go through life you are constantly forced to make the decision between sin or no sin.
In the homosexual, biological predisposition example you are born IN sin and THEN forced to overcome that sin.
They aren't comparable.
Born without being in sin
April 16, 2008 - 14:04 ET by chiefpayneLeon,
EVERYONE is born IN sin...that's the whole point. If you lust in your heart for a sexual encounter, homosexual or not, you are sinning. The two ARE compatible...you just refuse to see that.
Hey LEON
April 16, 2008 - 15:25 ET by chiefpayneAre you GONE? You haven't answered my previous post as of yet.
I maintain that premarital sex and homosexuality are both sins and similar in nature.
Leon sayes April 16, 2008 -
April 16, 2008 - 13:17 ET by bassndudeLeon sayes
April 16, 2008 - 12:46 ET by Leon
So people that support Homosexuality shouldn't be able to take communion? >> True. It is a Lifestyle, living in sin. Repent. Hard to be a practicing Christian living like that.
hmm. That's a bit drastic isn't Tim? >>No
So if you have a gay family member, you can either shun them or be shunned by the church. >>No, again.
Right. That makes perfect sense. What a bunch of hogwash your little article is. >>I am sure it is to you.
If we extend your logic, I'd be willing to bet 80% of Catholics shouldn't take mass. Shouldn't you also suggest that any adulterers be disallowed from mass? Where does it end? >>When you quit practicing such things. Ask Jesus to forgive you, and quit it.
On a side note, what happens to the Catholic Church when it's proven that homosexuality is biological (aka God made gays)?>>God dosn't create abominations to Himself. Satan takes care of that.<< Wouldn't that mean they've been preaching against God's creation for centuries? Wouldn't that make you question a lot of their other teachings? >> Oh yeah, you would like that. Fact is, it is a choice, and research is beginning to show that it is.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
Bass, Can you link me to
April 16, 2008 - 13:23 ET by LeonBass,
Can you link me to some of this research that is 'starting' to show that homosexuality is a choice?
I've heard this claim time and time again around here, but I've never seen a single citation of a single study.
Chop chop. Let me know when you find one.
Sure Leon....
April 16, 2008 - 13:27 ET by bassndudeSure Leon.... http://www.bible.com/bibleanswers.php and there is this one http://www.biblegateway.com/ There are others, not hard to find. All your questions, with a little study and time will be answered.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
Bass, You claimed there
April 16, 2008 - 13:31 ET by LeonBass,
You claimed there was recent research that was beginning to show that homosexuality was a choice.
That's what I asked for. Not some worthless Bible links.
So do you have the scientific research to back up your claim? Or are you just going to pull the old "well that's what it says in the Bible" move?
Since we have a close cousin...
April 16, 2008 - 13:44 ET by SyriusLeon,
The male Chimpanzee, 98% of its DNA we share, uses intercourse as a means to dominate. Whether it's another male or female, the dominate male is one heck of a real man, oops, I meant chimp. Since no one has told him he's gay, he continues to merrily go about his business. Maybe the fear of evolution and genetics means that most of the conservatives are afraid of being "dominated"!
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
Syrius, we also share some
April 16, 2008 - 13:50 ET by bassndudeSyrius, we also share some 95 to 98% of the same DNA as most animals. Including the ass.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
Like a worm???
April 16, 2008 - 14:21 ET by Syriusbassndude,
Back it up with the facts...
By the way...
As predicted by preliminary studies, the human and chimpanzee genetic
codes are essentially 99 percent identical, a testament to how
fundamentally similar the two species remain.
http://www.washingto...
http://www.eurekaler...
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
Syrius....The research team
April 16, 2008 - 16:37 ET by bassndudeSyrius....The research team at the National Human Genome Research Institute and several universities compared the same stretch of DNA in a chimpanzee, baboon, cat, dog, cow, pig, rat, mouse, chicken, zebrafish and two species of pufferfish with human DNA. Check it out.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
BTW syrius, I never said it
April 16, 2008 - 16:40 ET by bassndudeBTW syrius, I never said it was not. It is 98.8% tho, not 99. They are saying now that human to human may differ by as much as .5 to 1%. I only said we share the dna with a varity of animals, not just chimps. If I remember correctly, we share about 97% of the dna with a pig. Just saying.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
You share 97% DNA with
April 16, 2008 - 16:51 ET by Dan The Man 2You share 97% DNA with syrius?
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
LOL Dan, maybe not that
April 16, 2008 - 17:01 ET by bassndudeLOL Dan, maybe not that much, in his case. And Leon is starting to look a lot like the missing link...
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
bass... LMAO! "Never
April 16, 2008 - 17:10 ET by bigtimerbass...
LMAO!
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
Leon, all your answers are
April 16, 2008 - 13:38 ET by bassndudeLeon, all your answers are in the links above. They are not "worthless."
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
Bass, Again you said
April 16, 2008 - 13:41 ET by LeonBass,
Again you said recent research is beginning to show that homosexuality is a choice.
I want real, scientific studies that have been published in real journals, not bible links.
Leon, if you want to read
April 16, 2008 - 13:46 ET by bassndudeLeon, if you want to read them, find them yourself. Your not a little child that I need to hold your hand. Truth be known, you really dont want to read them. If you did, you would have already. You have never looked, never tried. God did not put me here just to post links for you to follow, then post that you dont belive what you read.
You want to read them? Go find them yourself.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
Bass, You haven't given
April 16, 2008 - 13:52 ET by LeonBass,
You haven't given me anything to read but Bible verses.
You said recent research. Where is the research?
Don't make the claim and then tell someone else to prove it for you.
Where is the contemporary, scientific research that you claim exists that is supposedly beginning to prove that homosexuality is a choice?
Stop playing games and put your money where you mouth is, Sally!
By the same token, there is
April 16, 2008 - 14:38 ET by NL207By the same token, there is no widely accepted Scienfific proof or argument that shows homosexuality is a condition of birth or physiology either. You haven't made your case either because of the absence of such proof.
At the same time, there is a powerful logical argument based on the premise that recreational heterosexuality produces offspring whereas recreational homosexuality does not. If "gay" is a gene or combination of genes, then the unplanned chldren produced by recreational heterosexual sex will, over many generations, tend to increase the proportion of heterosexual people in the population, all other factors being equal. This hasn't happened. The proprtion of homosexuals today is similar to what it was in ancient Greece, 2500 years and 125 generations ago. The liklihood that homosexuality is purely physiological is as near to null as to make no difference.
Leon, bassndude is not making sense.
April 16, 2008 - 13:53 ET by SyriusLeon,
Bassndude needs to back up his statement.
Come on, b-assndude, show us the links...type in "homosexual genetics" and search the google. I'm sure you'll find something, I know I haven't found any to support your claim. Leon is standing tall so far...
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
Sy, It's the favorite
April 16, 2008 - 13:57 ET by LeonSy,
It's the favorite move of the loud mouths around here.
Make an outrageous claim, when challenged on said outrageous claim, tell the challenger it's their responsibility to prove YOUR claim.
haha. It's great! You can just go around saying whatever you want and then telling others to do YOUR work for you.
If only my clients would accept that approach!
It would be like the global
April 16, 2008 - 13:28 ET by bassndudeIt would be like the global warming, Leon. You would not belive it and would only whine about it, so not worth the effort, to me.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
Bass, What happens in the
April 16, 2008 - 13:33 ET by LeonBass,
What happens in the global warming debate, esp around here is that one side argues against the other using their interpretation of the scientific evidence.
Don't try to weasal out of backing up your ridiculous claim (which I know is complete BS b/c contemporary research is actually beginning to show the exact opposite of what you claim).
Cite me the research you are referring to. Or were you just making things up to back up your unfounded argument?
See post above. If you
April 16, 2008 - 13:36 ET by bassndudeSee post above. If you wanted to know, really wanted to know, you would. It's not worth the effort, just to give you something to whine about. Which, Leon, you do whine very well...your doing it now. Now excuse me. I have a meeting. Be back around 3 or so.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
Bass, It's clear that you
April 16, 2008 - 13:43 ET by LeonBass,
It's clear that you have no evidence to back your claim.
Why play the run around?
Just give it up. You made something up and tried to pass it off as a valid argument.
Simple Soution
April 16, 2008 - 12:57 ET by chiefpayneIf you support abortion, DON'T become Catholic...if you are NOW Catholic and support abortion, leave the Catholic faith because practising Catholics DO NOT SUPPORT abortion.
If you feel you're "being bullied" by Bishops who refuse to give you communion because you are going against the faith, then find a new faith (preferrably one that fits what you believe) and leave Catholicism to those who believe and preach and practise what they believe.
Why did I know that Leon
April 16, 2008 - 13:11 ET by motherbeltWhy did I know that Leon and Syrius would have a field day with this
posting? They didn't even wait until there are a dozen or so comments;
they jumped right in.
There is a world of difference between publicly supporting, in one's position of authority, and advocating legislation that supports abortion and legitimizes homesesual behavior (that is the key word), and not shunning a relative.
But neither Leon nor Syrius see that; they don't want to. Their whole purpose in commenting in these threads is to create controversy and issue challenges, which they will then claim are "innocent questions."
Pelosi and Kerry should do the right thing and abstain from Communion, but they won't. They are too full of themselves....no on, not even the Catholic Church, is going to tell them what they can and can't do, no sir!!
MB, who are you to judge?!?
April 16, 2008 - 13:29 ET by SyriusMB,
I thought when it came to anything concerning God and a believer, it is between the two. You'll have your day if you believe. Stop the judging for you will be judged... you might want to open your Bible- (Luke 6:37).
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
Sorry, Syrius, I am
April 16, 2008 - 13:50 ET by motherbeltSorry, Syrius, I am entitled to my opinion, as you are. I know I will be judged also. So you think that because you give everyone a free ride and never say anything anyone else does is wrong, God will give you a free ride on judgment day?
Good luck with that.
PS You are judging me by saying that I am wrong to judge.
Just pointing out Luke 6:37...
April 16, 2008 - 15:03 ET by SyriusMB,
...to a Christian. If you regard the Bible as your guide, I wanted you to be more informed in your thought process before you start racking up those sins. It's not a judgment call, just a kind reminder to follow what you preach.
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
MB has a duty to admonish
April 16, 2008 - 15:17 ET by GWMB has a duty to admonish 'Catholics' from sinning.
"If your brother 12 sins (against you), go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother. If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that 'every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.' If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. 14 If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector."
(Mt 18:15-17)
Interesting...
April 16, 2008 - 15:36 ET by SyriusGW,
If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.
Gentiles & Tax collectors?!? What have they done to warrant ill treatment? If you're not Jewish, aren't you considered a Gentile?
Well, I'll be damned with the rest of you!
So, what about the IRS?
"And whoever receives one child such as this in my name receives me" Could this be a justification for the priest and a child?
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
Well, I'll be damned with
April 16, 2008 - 16:50 ET by Dan The Man 2Well, I'll be damned with the rest of you, well we wont be damned but you are well on your way.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
*sigh*
April 18, 2008 - 12:37 ET by GWWell, this is probably a little late, but I had work to do. I sometimes forget how little most people know about the Bible, so here goes my explanation. This may be a waste of time, but I'll take the time in case someone gets something out of it.
First of all, whenever reading the Bible, we must consider how the intended universal timeless message is transmitted to the intended specific audience, in this case.
The people being addressed by Jesus were all Jews. To them, the Gentiles were the bad guys, so you can imagine they were not highly regarded. The tax collectors worked for the Romans, who were occupying the Jewish homeland at that time. The tax collectors not only collected the money demanded by the Romans, but were also authorized to add an arbitrary fee to fund their own lifestyles. Thus, they were Jews taking money from Jews and giving it to the Romans and keeping some for themselves.
So, the tax collectors back then were not like the IRS workers today who work for a given wage. Instead, imagine an IRS agent being authorized to have you personally pay for their new LCD TV and you get closer to what it was actually like.
Now for the Gentiles. Christians believe that salvation came to the whole world through the Jews. During Jesus' earthly ministry, it was taken for granted that salvation was primarily for Jews. There were indications that faith in Jesus was shared by some Gentiles. (The Magi were Gentiles, the 'Good Samaritan' was not Jewish, the Centurian, etc. are good examples.) The ministry of God to the entire world is also mentioned in the Old Testament.
It wasn't until shortly after the Ascension that it was recognized that salvation was a gift extended to the Gentiles as well.
I don't see how the passage about the child pertains to this discussion, but I'd be happy to give my take on it. At the time, children often died early deaths. Perhaps for that reason, people would not be bothered with them. What Christ does is demonstrate that the child-like qualities of faith and innocence are to be encouraged and preserved.
Those in the priestly office who have violated that trust are a blemish on the Church and need to be brought to justice. Benedict has been outspoken on this, referring to these people as 'filth'. All who work with children, including public school teachers are called to be examples of trust and purity.
Thanks for encouraging me to
April 16, 2008 - 15:01 ET by GWThanks for encouraging me to open my Bible. It says:
Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord. A person should examine himself, and so eat the bread and drink the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself. (1 Cor 11:27-29)
Amen! "A nation which
April 16, 2008 - 15:59 ET by rbosqueAmen!
"A nation which kills it's own young has no future." ~ Pope John Paul II
Better to ship 'em off...
April 16, 2008 - 16:30 ET by Syriusrb,
...to Iraq.
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
The likes of Kennedy,
April 16, 2008 - 13:17 ET by bigtimerThe likes of Kennedy, Pelosi, Kerry and all their ilk when it comes to politicians prove what hypocrisy really means...and the leftist msm love them for it.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
bt...I forgot about Teddy
April 16, 2008 - 13:23 ET by motherbeltbt...I forgot about Teddy the K! Thanks for bringing him in too.
They are all shameless.
Pro-choice on religion
April 16, 2008 - 13:24 ET by GWWhat I don't understand is why Pelosi and Kerry want to be considered Catholic in the first place. No one is forcing them to be Catholic. For that matter, why do so many people who disagree with Catholic teachings and who refuse to even go to Mass still consider themselves devout Catholics?
Why do they want to go so far to perform the public sign of association (Communion) with an organization they disagree with?
Family tradition.
April 16, 2008 - 13:26 ET by motherbeltFamily tradition.
Another question
April 16, 2008 - 15:04 ET by GWIt seems that non-members want to tell this organization who she gives Communion to. Why do they care so much?
I honestly don't know why
April 16, 2008 - 16:38 ET by motherbeltI honestly don't know why someone not a Catholic would care. Unless it's the liberal instinct to to stick one's nose into literally everything, and to think that they are the only ones who can decide how things should be.
There is a difference between having an abortion and supporting
April 16, 2008 - 14:00 ET by Dee Bunkabortions as public policy. There is a difference between being Homosexual and supporting homosexual marriage.
I don't think the Catholic church refuses communion to homosexuals or women who have had an abortion. I don't even think they would refuse a murderer. That is what confession is for. People sin and people are forgiven.
Supporting public policy that is against the church is completely different. Very different and liberals just don't get that. Most Christian religions don't condemn people for committing sins in fact they assume that everyone will sin in some way or another.
People who support abortion
April 16, 2008 - 15:54 ET by rbosquePeople who support abortion have committed a mortal sin. According to JPII- it is "intrinsically evil". They cannot receive communion unless they change their mind and go to confession.
Those two idiots should go
April 16, 2008 - 15:51 ET by rbosqueThose two idiots should go to confession before they receive communion. Otherwise, they are receiving the Lord "unworthly" and will be condemning themselves. Period.
You can totally support capital punishment and be RC!
April 16, 2008 - 21:06 ET by Damian GMy copy-paste is being troublesome, so go to this link:
http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0503fea2.asp