ABC Again Ignores Liberal Connections of Global Warming Alarmists

Photo of Scott Whitlock.
By Scott Whitlock | November 19, 2007 - 13:37 ET

Sam Champion hyperventilated about the threat of extreme weather on Monday's "Good Morning America" and, once again, ignored the leftist connections of two cited experts. Scientists Michael Oppenheimer and Daniel Schrag, both of whom have vigorously slammed Republicans in the past, appeared in the segment to warn that global warming would only continue to cause unusual weather patterns as long as greenhouse gases keep increasing.

GMA identified Oppenheimer simply by his connection as a scientist for Princeton University. However, he has previously slammed Republican disagreement about climate change as "uniformed rambling." In the piece, Schrag scarily warned, "It's hard to overstate how big a change [climate change] could be in the weather we experience every day." This is same man who, in a Boston Globe column from December 2006, smeared GOP Senator James Inhofe, then the Chair of a Senate environmental committee, for using skeptical witnesses that Schrag derided as "a gathering of liars and charlatans, sponsored by those industries who want to protect their profits." To further make the point, the article is entitled, "On a Swift Boat to a Warmer World."

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In October, the ABC program featured Oppenheimer gushing over Al Gore and his Nobel Peace Prize victory. That segment was even more misleading, as GMA provided no identification at all. Later that month, Oppenheimer appeared on NBC's "Nightly News" and claimed climate change could cause disasters such as the California wildfires. (NBC also failed to disclose his liberal connections.) Is it really too much to ask that the networks stop attempting to pass off environmental activists as non-partisan observers?

ABC hyped the segment, which focused on extreme weather around the world, within the context of a new United Nations report on global warming. Co-host Robin Roberts observed that "some" are calling it "definitive." Of course, Champion made no mention of any possibility that these weather events could be cyclical or that some might not be as a result of climate change. Skepticism on this issue is readily available. For instance, Investors Business Daily reported on November 13 that in a new study, NASA researchers found that many changes in the Arctic Ocean are, in fact, cyclical:

From 2002 to 2006, scientists and researchers from NASA and the University of Washington's Polar Science Center at the Applied Physics Laboratory observed a meaningful ongoing reversal in Arctic Ocean circulation. The cause is atmospheric circulation changes that vary in decade-long periods and the effect is, well, let the scientist who led the study explain it:

"Our study confirms many changes seen in upper Arctic Ocean circulation in the 1990s were mostly decadal in nature, rather than trends caused by global warming," said the University of Washington's James Morison.

This study, however, went unmentioned by Sam Champion.

A transcript of the November 19 segment, which aired at 7:42am, follows:

DIANE SAWYER: Coming up next, hurricanes in Brooklyn, hail in Bogota? What is going on on planet Earth? Sam reports live from the place, as we said, where people live year in and year out with the worst weather on the Earth.

7:42am

ROBIN ROBERTS: And now, more on extreme weather. Over the weekend, a U.N. panel released a new report on global climate change, the same panel that shared the Nobel Peace Prize with former Vice President Al Gore. Hundreds of scientists contributed to the report which some are calling definitive. Sam has more from Mount. Washington. Morning again, Sam.

SAM CHAMPION: Good morning, Robin. And here we are, the place to talk about extreme weather and we're just four days out of that super cyclone in Bangladesh. A once in a ten-year kind of a storm in that area but the death toll could be extreme here. The death toll could approach 10,000 is their fear. Also as you just mentioned, that panel on climate change sponsored by the U.N. came back with some very strong language. They called global warming unequivocal and they also pointed to the direct causes of global warming. Extreme weather impacted up to half a billion people across the globe in 2007, some the most bizarre events seen in years. A rare and powerful hailstorm hit Bogota, Colombia's tropical capital, creating rivers of cars, water and ice. The first documented cyclone in the Arabian Sea struck Oman and Iran. And for the first time ever, melting ice opened up the famed Northwest Passage. And remember this? [File footage of Sam in New York.] It was about this time yesterday morning when they woke up to the first tornado since 1889. [File footage of Sam ends.] A tornado brought down power lines and damaged homes, not in Kansas, but in Brooklyn, New York.

UNIDENTIFIED SCIENTIST: The weather we are experiencing is changing and will be changing even more rapidly in the future.

CHAMPION: More extreme weather from powerful storms to massive wildfires to droughts like in Atlanta where they're seeing their worst one ever. Many scientists blame the trend on a rise in the Earth's temperature.

MICHAEL OPPENHEIMER, PHD (GEOSCIENCES, PRINCETON UNIVERSITY) The extremes we're getting are more problematic than the extremes we've had in the past.

CHAMPION: Over the weekend the U.N.'s panel on climate change, the largest group of climate scientists ever assembled, called global warming unequivocal and said that global warming emissions have increased due to human activities.

OPPENHEIMER: We expect more and more of these episodes of extremes to happen as long as the concentrations of the greenhouse gases continue to increase in the atmosphere.

CHAMPION: One reason, warmer air holds more water vapor so moisture stays in the atmosphere instead of raining out, which could explain why portions of Europe sweltered this year under record-breaking heat waves and Greece was ravaged by massive wildfires while at the same time, when it does rain, there's lots more of it. So we saw the U.K. get their wettest may and June since 1766. Rare snowstorms hitting Argentina, even South Africa, while southeast Asia some saw some of its worst monsoon flooding in decades. Unusual weather swings that if the Earth continued to warm could become the norm across the world and here at home.

PROFESSOR DANIEL SCHRAG, PHD (EARTH SCIENCES, HARVARD UNIVERSITY): Moving forward we're going to see more and more surprises. The truth is we've just scratched the surface when it comes to climate change. It's hard to overstate how big a change this could be in the weather we experience every day.

CHAMPION: Mount Washington is also seeing some changes in the weather. The snow pack here lasts five days less than it has 30 or than it did 30 years ago and they've also have seen a slight temperature change here as well. Coming up we'll we're going to introduce you to the men and women on the front lines of studying our climate right here at the Mount Washington Observatory. That's right, I said men and women. We're going to introduce you to Stacy who took me around and showed me how everything works here. It's a busy crew here up on top of the mountain. You'll meet them coming up. Also, if you want to know more about Mount Washington, do it at MountWashington.org and we'll link you at ABCNews.com. Diane, Robin?

—Scott Whitlock is a news analyst for the Media Research Center.

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I wish Champion would have

I wish Champion would have the "stones" to interview John Christy a lead author on the 2001 IPCC report and was a contributing author on the 2007 report.  Then maybe John could straighten Champion out on some of his biased opinions and point out his lack of scientific credentials.  Christy could discuss some of his talking points outlined here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7081331.stm

Oh Sam. Always good for a laugh.

Watch it Sam:

"It was about this time yesterday morning when they woke up to the first tornado since 1889."

"So we saw the U.K. get their wettest may and June since 1766."

You'll give people the impression that similar events have occurred in the past.

"That's right, I said men and women."

Yeah, okay Sam. It's 2007 and we're not living in Iran. It's not a big deal to find women scientists anymore.

"...wettest May and June

"...wettest May and June since 1766." Really? And, what was the cause of that extreme weather in 1766? It couldn't have been Evil Big Oil. It couldn't have been Evil American White Males. It couldn't have been a result of an Evil Industrial Revolution. Oh, my God! You don't think it could have been the result of natural variations in global weather/climate?

"...first tornado since 1889." Geeze, you mean to say there have been tornadoes in this area before Algore?

Oh, Dave, didn't you get the memo? There were never any weather events before in the history of the world before Al Gore. No tornadoes in tornado alley (that was just a name that folks gave the southern plains states because it sounded cool), no blizzards in Europe or Kansas or Alaska or Siberia, no droughts in either the American southeast or southwest or anywhere else, no heat waves, no cold snaps, no cyclones or hurricanes, etc., etc. All of these events have only happened since Al Gore came along to point them out to us. So, obviously, all of this stuff is Gore's fault, and instead of being the savior of the world, he is the one single-handedly destroying the globe. In the words of the Queen of Hearts: Off with his head! (Note to all humor and sarcasm impaired: I did not just literally call for Manbearpig to be beheaded.)

"A communist is someone who reads Marx. An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx." Ronald Reagan

Thats always been my bone

Thats always been my bone of contention, the moment they say "this hasn't happened since....." their argument falls apart right there. If it's happened before AlGore, I'm sure it will happen after AlGore.

Is there no end to this

Is there no end to this political debate? And if it is for the "first time ever", why is it called the "northwest passage"? Dosent that indicate that is was used as a passage before it was froze over all the time? Isint the UN a political gathering? Are they not political appointees? This is not science. It is petty politics.

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

What are Sam's credentials?

Texhoma

According to Champion's bio, he has not earned a degree in Meteorology, or any other science related field. His degree is in Broadcast News. What makes him such an expert?

 

What makes him such an expert?

He cares... 

Designer Doom

I'm convinced MSM journalists are on the whole not very bright.

****

Whatever the climatologists find incompatible with the so-called
consensus is even not included in the U.N. climate report. Every day, I
receive letters from all around the world in which scientists disagree
with the prevailing opinion but no one wants to listen to or print
their hypotheses. They are simply unfashionable-
-Czech Prez Vaclav Klaus

Right on, Designer Doom

Texhoma

Recalling my college days, most journalism majors were held in low regard. Journalism was widely viewed as the least strenuous path to a degree. After graduation, many who did get their Journalism degree ended up working in positions that required no more than a high school diploma. By and large the field does not attract the best and brightest. That so many people lend any credence at all to the views of these folks in the MSM is scary.

 

SamBearPig

So is that 1/2 Sam and 1/2 BearPig?  1/2 SamBear and 1/2 Pig?  1/2 PigSam and 1/2 Bear?

manmade global warming

is a fact .  Every major science organization agrees .  Deniers who trot out contrarians are in the vast minority.  Go to realclimmate.org and try to pawn off any of the denier claims and watch it get slapped down immediately.  

Professor Truth???

I see you were a science teacher for 25 years.

Answer these questions:

  • What caused the first ice age to end?
  • If there is Global Warming, how do we know whatever caused the first ice age to end is not happening again?
  • Isn't it a bit arrogant to think the humans can actually control/influence the weather?
  • What happened to all of the hurricanes the past 2 years the AGW was supposed to bring on?

As a scientist, I would expect you to have a better understanding of the scientific method and not just buy into this liberal propaganda.

[I assume that you probably believe that macro-Evolution is fact and not still just a lame-brain theory.]

 

If conservatives are RIGHT, then liberals must be WRONG.
Thompson/Rice

Your first question is

Your first question is irrelevent. The cause for the ending of other ice ages obviously wasn't due to man. The present warming RATE is unprecedented, it's not caused by changes in solar output, there is a direct cause-effect relationship established between CO2 and warming, and massive amounts of de-sequestered CO2 have been added to the atmosphere. There are many many more questions that have not been answered, yet reliable climate models have predicted temperature changes of from 3 to 8 degrees F in this century. We cannot know the exact temperature change because we cannot know the exact amount of CO2 and any resulting positive feedbacks( release of methane from thawing tundra) that occur. There is a scientific consensus(every major scientific organization) that agrees that manmade GW is a very serious threat.

Where are you getting this nonsense

PT states "The present warming RATE is unprecedented, it's not caused by changes in solar output, there is a direct cause-effect relationship established between CO2 and warming, and massive amounts of de-sequestered CO2 have been added to the atmosphere."

Where do you come up with this being unprecedented? Not caused by solar output? Where is the empirical evidence demonstrating a direct CO2 warming relationship? (Not models - real scientific evidence that can be validated)

And massive amounts of de-sequestered CO2 have been added to the atmosphere? Where do you think it came from in the first place before it was sequestered? C'mon.

You might as well rely on Wikipedia as RealClimate. Cut me a break. Michael Mann has been shown to not be credible. His site censors all opinions not in lockstep with his own.

And please, consensus is politics, not science. If you had any real science supporting your wild claims, you would have no need to claim consensus.

All of you warmers should just keep dancing around the fire in your grass skirts. Maybe try shaking some dead chickens over your head while your at it. That will control the climate as much as reducing CO2.

You're the one in need of education

Your entire string of comments are nothing but appeals to authority which is nothing but a fallacy of logic.

 You never make any evidentiary comments; instead, all you ever do is claim that RealClimate says this or that, the NAS says this or that, or some other supposed authority says something which you support.

 Why can't you say in your own language that which you claim to be true.  I try my best to understand what I read and endeavor to articulate this into clear statements.  All you do is claim someone else has said something and imply that ends the argument.

 You need much better sources than the BBC of all things.  RealClimate is not a respected source, and is regarded as nothing but a bunch of AGW priests.  Gavin Schmidt has been soundly defeated any time he has dared to venture into an honest surrounding examining the arena of ideas. (intelligence squared debate?)

 Again, with you and all the warmers I foolishly try to reason with, please show me where there is anything close to empirical evidence supporting your claims that humans are causing "unprecedented" climate change through their CO2 emissions.  Beyond this, please show me anywhere that CO2 emissions in general ( natural or human) have anything to do with dramatic climate change.

 All you do is spout  hyperbole and leftist talking points while demeaning those of us who are rationalists and realists by calling us deniers.  You are the denier, Sir, by refusing to accept what the real world is telling you.  The facts are that CO2 is a bit player and has already reached the point close to saturation where it will exert no warming influence at all.

 Why are you so set on returning humanity to the dark ages?

so realclimate is NOT a respected source??

According to WHOM???  And the National Academy of Sciences is another disrespected source??  And my argument using authority COULD be fallacious, if the authority had no supporting evidence in the form of experiments, data and other transparent facts which could be falsifiable.  I take it you see the bible the same way(an authoritative document, with facts completely contradicted by experience).  I refer you to realclimate because it has links to original papers, graphs, reports, which are subject to the test of falsifiability.  I am NOT a climate scientist, so why would I want to misrepresent their positions? Think of me more as a juror who has weighed the AGW evidence against the evidence of the deniers.  If AGW was such a weak argument, why has 20 years of debate strengthened it's poition???  With newer computer models, more research, the AGW position has reached a point where it's ludicrous to deny.  What evidence do YOU have that shows thatCO2 increases do not cause a temperature increase, a fact well known in physics.  What climate models can you present that show a predicted DROP in temperature in the future.  Surely, a brilliant denialist such as you would be able to conjure up such a model, which would completely cause previous AGW models to be clearly worthless.  You don't have any contradictory evidence, do you??  Come back when you have something of value to say.

realclimate enjoys no more

realclimate enjoys no more stature than co2science or climatewatch do.  In fact, Climatewatch's principal author has directly discredited one of the most "important" results at realclimate, Michael Mann's tree ring based reconstructions of recent climate. These questionable results form the foundation of the IPCC's claim that it is today the warmest than at any time in the last 1000 years, an assertoin which is in conflict with results produced by other methods.

"The AGW position has reached a point where it's ludicrous to deny"  You could have left off the last two words and you'd have been right.

If God choses to let you live long enough, you will come to see what balogna this whole AGW scare really is.

Since you are such an expert.  Explain to me the simple mechanics of heat transfer.  How does heat move around?   Should be a piece of cake if you really are any kind of professor, which I seriously doubt.  Anybody that gets as emotional as you do, absolutely filled with indignation over the heresy we are committing here is no scientist. Maybe a professor of theology, but no scientist.

NL207

you are not writing like a real scientist. The chink in your armor is the following, You wrote:

If God choses to let you live long enough, you will come to see what balogna this whole AGW scare really is.

Based on what science do you base this prediction? What specific laws allows you to make such a statement about the future? Climate models? None exist which project future cooling(unless I'm missing something). Even assuming that both of us are guessing, my chances of being correct are equal to your my chances of being wrong. Let's forget climate modelling for a moment. The total mass balance of planetary ice is shrinking. Are there ANY temperature measurements that show planetary COOLING? Was the warming rate the same in the 1st half of the century conmpared to the last half?? Are there signature characvteristics that might distinguish warming due to the sun compared to warming due to green house gases? From my readings, regarding the last question, solar warming should affect the tropics more than the poles due to the angle of attack of incoming rays on the equator vs the poles. Howevver, CO2 warming would be MORE amplified at the poles.

Guess what. Arctic temperature increases have been far more dramatic at the N pole. The S pole hasn'tbeen as affected as a result of the much larger bodie of water surrounding it.

 

A great any scientists I

A great any scientists I know believe there is a God.  There are a great many articles about this on line.  This is one of them.  It says that about 38% of natural scientists believ in God.  In my personal experience, it si more than that, but I believ my experince is colored by my age.  I think sampling would show that the younger a scientist is, the less likely it is he or she belives in God. 

I never said the planet was cooling.  In fact, if I recall, I suggest the planet has warmed about 0.6 K over the last century.  ["the Earth’s average air temperature increased by 0.06 degrees Celsius per decade in the 20th century"] Reliable data suggest that 1/2 of this is due to solar variance over that interval and the rest is a composite of other factors including human activity.   This caps the human contribution at 0.3 K for the century

I, and most of the rest of the skeptics, view this variation as within the range of earth's natural climate.  It is not domininat. It is not unprecedented.  It is not significant.  It is not harmful.  It may even be bneneficial to life in general and certainly does not warrant any of the fascist political action your team is proposing.

NL don't worry about it

I believe that if you wrote "When the sun comes up tommorrow it will be Thanksgiving" the prof would claim it's untrue and unscientific because real scientists know the sun does not 'come up' rather the earth rotates.  Misinformed myopic marvel of misconstrued mythical misinformation that he is.

 “The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.”   -Chief Justice John Roberts

alliteration...botg

That's quite An Anthropogenic Alliteration.

Happy Thanksgiving to all and may it be a blessed day!

no consensus on AGW??

 I think these internationally recognized scientific bodies would disagree:


Much of the debate seems to consist of a show of hands and parading of credentials. On the one hand, you have assorted scientists as presented in the National Post Denier series. On the other side, you have the IPCC stating anthropogenic emissions are the predominant cause of global warming. If the IPCC is not your cup of tea, the following scientific organisations also endorse the consensus:
    •     National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration
    •     Environmental Protection Agency
    •     NASA's Goddard Institute of Space Studies
    •     American Geophysical Union
    •     American Institute of Physics
    •     National Center for Atmospheric Research
    •     American Meteorological Society
    •     State of the Canadian Cryosphere
    •     The Royal Society of the UK
    •     Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society
Academies of Science from 19 countries

The Academies of Science from 19 different countries all endorse the consensus. 11 countries have signed a joint statement endorsing the consensus position:
    •     Academia Brasiliera de Ciencias (Brazil)
    •     Royal Society of Canada
    •     Chinese Academy of Sciences
    •     Academie des Sciences (France)
    •     Deutsche Akademie der Naturforscher Leopoldina (Germany)
    •     Indian National Science Academy
    •     Accademia dei Lincei (Italy)
    •     Science Council of Japan
    •     Russian Academy of Sciences
    •     Royal Society (United Kingdom)
    •     National Academy of Sciences (United States of America)

I believe you've been checkmated! 

Prof, You are starting to

Prof,

You are starting to bore me now.  I belong to a number of professional scientific geological organizations.  There is debate in a few of the Societies about whether we as a collective whole want to endorse AGW or not.  So, if 51% of 1000 scientists lean and vote that our statement to the public should be we support the AGW consensus and manmade greenhouse gases are to blame, well, what about the other 49% or 490 tenured, published and respected scientists and their conclusions?  Just because your organizations say they support consensus in no way shape or form means that all of the scientist therein do. 

Checkmate my friend.  Gawd, I believe I am up like 12-0 or something; plus I struck you out.

only in your mind

You raise a false 51% of scientists accepting AGW where the true numbers are 90+%. You have failed to propose an alternate mechanism that has any credibility among the consensus of global climatologists. You cannot bring another climate model showing cooling or non warming to discredit all the INDEPENDENT climate models that ALL show future warming. You do have hubris, claiming a 12-0 victory, howerver. I will concede you have far more hubris than I. Oreskes did a search using the words global warming(wikipedia, type global warming consensus). He discovered 928 PEER REVIEWED papers, about 75% which attributed to manmade GW, 25% were NEUTRAL, and ZERO % attributed to denialist claims. I guess I've won, 696 to ZERO!

}}---> Uhh Professor

Please don't come in here using the word "consensus" in a serious tone.

It's nothing more than an ejaculation in the church of Gore.

scientific consensus is a critical part of science

All science is built on consensus. This is a must have. Imagine if someone wanted to know the speed of light, what do they do? Measure it? Using what techniques?? So when 100 scientists measure the speed of light, how do they determine the correct value? CONSENSUS! To not understand this is to show basic ignorance of the scientific method!!!

}}---> I see your point Professor

So this guy Armand Hippolyte Louis Fizeau called a bunch of his scientist buddies together and says to them:  Show of hands, guys, how many say it's 186,000 miles per second?

OK, we got ourselves a consensus.  Let's publish.

You're up next Gauss.

I thought the speed of

I thought the speed of light was scientifically defined as:

"The amout of time it takes Hillary Clinton to change positions in a debate".

Being a science novice, that sounds reasonable to me. :-o

"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...

Cool Arrow...new science to go with new math

New science relies on a consensus of so-called scientist voting. Facts are unnecessary. Scientific method only gets in the way and besides, accurate experimentation and data gathering is too expensive. (That is why our weather stations are so decrepit.)

 

If conservatives are RIGHT, then liberals must be WRONG.
Thompson/Rice

Earth to professor of

Earth to professor of BS.

The speed of light is not dependent on consensus. The speed of light has nothing to do with science. It has to do with the behavior of the photon particle.

If 100 scientist measure the speed of light incorrectly? Does the photon change to meet the expectations of the scientist in error?

Please. If you really do teach science. Do your students a favor. Transfer them to someone who knows about science.

 

"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT

Please. If you really do

Please. If you really do teach science. Do your students a favor. Transfer them to someone who knows about science.

Amen.  I guess I will have to consider home schooling when my kids reach that age.

Prof, btw, shouldn't you be teaching class right now?

danbo, what science background do you have?

Have you ever plotted a graph from physical data??  Where is the correct value for the slope???  How is the correct slope value determined if your data points do not fall along the straight line?

Is this slope the 'true' value or is it the 'experimental' value arrived at by "consensus"??  I'll match my understanding of science with yours any day. 

"I'll match my

"I'll match my understanding of science with yours any day.  "

You're doing a great job of hiding it.

You're losing so far.

"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT

danbo, your science credntials are???

What credentials  do you have????(I'm waiting for the answer but not holding my breath)

Here' s a link that refutes another denialist "fact",, the "discredited" hockey stick graph!  Refute this:

http://gristmill.gri...

There are two types of people, those who think critically and those who are denialists! 

}}---> Still stupid professor

Plotting points is nothing more than a visual form of data presentation.  How many bloggers does it take to get a consensus you're stuck on groupthink.

Like coorelations. No

Like coorelations. No where did I learn that coorelations were proof of a cause effect relationship.

In fact I've had both statisticians and research professors caution us about coorelations. 

"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT

no consensus in science

Go sign up for experimental medical treatment. After all, if a single doctor says the treatment is ok, there won't be any problems. No need for consensus, RIGHT? And I guess you believe anything that anyone says, after all, who needs consensus?? But, using your lack of need for consensus, climate models MUST BE CORRECT since the modeler said so. No need for consensus. I guess AGW must be a fact, because climate modelers say so. No need for consensus, right???

There are two kinds of thinkers, critical thinkers and global warming denialists

}}---> Professor P-trollium

Your scientific consensus thing must've worked real good in Africa against the AIDS epidemic.  They just cured 40% of them overnight.

Seems the scientists down there had this consensus going that sex with a virgin baby was the only cure for it.

That consensus sh*t must be strong juju.

professor of BS???

I'm actually a high school chem teacher with a BS from SDSU,1976 but I suspect you will challenge this even with ZERO FACTS available. Do you have any science background?? I've taught physics(high school) during my tenure so I understand a little bit about the principles of light, so stop your counterproductive condescension. My point was that different scientists MEASURE the speed of light using different methods. The argument is, which method is best?? This is where consensus must be reached in order to get the value for c. Global warming MUST work from consensus. ALL science works from consensus. It's called peer review. If I produce cold fusion, I cannot claim it until consensus is reached. Scientific illiterates CONFUSE political consensus(agreement through votes) with SCIENTIFC CONSENSUS(agreement through debate over the available facts). To say that science DOES'NT work from CONSENSUS is to be SCIENTIFICALLY ILLITERATE!

"AGW consensus"

The recently released IPCC report "was adopted after five days of sometimes tense negotiations among 140 national delegations." -Associated Press

Hmmmm.....tense negotiations....that sounds like real "consensus", all right.

And, can someone please tell me why it's necessary to "negotiate" science?

danbo

You've failed to show that consensus is a critical part of the scientific method.

You've failed to show that today's climate models are not reliable.

You've failed to provide any contrarian evidence that would undermine the fact of AGW.

You've failed to show that AGW is not the consensus belief in the climate science community.

You've failed to propose an alternate mechanism for the warming with any scientific legs.

Face it, danbo, you've failed. Admit it. Nothing personal.

earth to Dunce Cap

Consensus.  True. I did not show that consensus is an important part of science. Because consensus has nothing to do with science. Except to idiots. And people who studied science in some alternative universe.  I just shot the hell out of your claims of consensus. (Do you have that short a memory?)

Failed to show that todays models are not reliable. true. You've failed to show there is unusuial warming; therefore models are irrelevent. Except to idiots. And people who studied science in some alternative universe.

I failed to show contrarian evidence that undermine AGW.? Are you blind also ?Or just an idiot? Not to mention that you failed to prove that AGW is real. I just shot the hell out of your claims that it is. And consensus is irrelevant except to idiots and people who studied science in an alternative universe.

I failed prove alternative an mechanism. True. Being you haven't proven there is a problem. There is no need to prove an alternative. Except to idiots and people who studied science in an alternative universe.

Face it dunce cap. You're an -----!

"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT

I'm starting to think the

I'm starting to think the "Professor" is an old troll in a new name.

Trying to accuse someone of failing to prove a point he himself brought up, that's the clincher. We had two or three Trolls who did that.

And notice how he avoids "the list" ?

Free...

I have tried to humor this troll and posted the link to your forum topic. I even cited one of the links in rebuttal. He is a liar...he does not read other sources.

If conservatives are RIGHT, then liberals must be WRONG.
Thompson/Rice

I think we should start

I think we should start taking bets on what his old name was here.

  1. RHayes
  2. Tumbler
  3. Hater
  4. "Father" Baracus
  5. Guy Arthur Moonbat

Free... Lets not forget

Free...

Lets not forget mobi....

Shady (Shades of Grey)

Shady (Shades of Grey) ?

Throatpecker?. (He told me he uses different names.) 

"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT

danbo... I bet that is a

danbo...

I bet that is a Bingo!

I've noticed a pattern,

I've noticed a pattern, that people I suspect of being that person using. not just in behavior 

"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT

BT

I can't believe I forgot MobiusDrip ! ;-)

Free

USnot (aka Eyecare)

and Bill Adkins

 “The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.”   -Chief Justice John Roberts

It's Amnesia! ;-)

It's Amnesia! ;-)

I don't think Johnbo.

I don't think Johnbo. Johnbo could be a pain in the butt. But when you cornered him, he would reluctantly admit his error.  After he kicked you a few times. (I wouldn't be too suprised if Johnbo one day becomes a sceptic. Once he gets past the hype.)

The more I think about it. Not Throatpecker. Throatpecker and I have tangled over Oreskes too many times. This guy hasn't a clue about Oreskes. Doesn't even know it's a woman. Throatpecker knows about Peisier, a little about von Storch. But, I'm not sure about the latest conflicting research. throatpecker would make stupid attacks saying Peisier lied and was in agreement with warming. Same old same old. But at least Pecker knew who Pesier was.

Actually, I wouldn't be supprised if pecker was a few people from Real Climate or Daily Kos using the same name. His behavior sometimes was so different.

"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT

Rhayes or father baracus.

Rhayes or father baracus. Could be hater, but this guy seems a lot dummer than hater. Never thought I would say that!

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

Hi bass... Leon already

Hi bass...

Leon already has haters place.

LOL!

Hi BT, and I agree. Save

Hi BT, and I agree.

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

Leon already has haters place.


Leon already has haters place.

LOL!

Funny (and accurate)

this guy seems a lot dummer than hater.

do you see the irony in your statement, bassndude??

there are two kinds of people:those who are critical thinkers and those who are denialists

Well Prof. Newbie

Since you're all new and shiny here.

The irony is lost on you.

Wow.....your latest post was dumber than Gump.

But keep it up, it's amusing....or the regulars here wouldn't keep batting you around.

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

I have used this name on this site and no other

But you denialists seem to want to argue that science doesn't need consensus. Fine. I'll agree. That means the climate modelers who show future warming are correct, right?? After all, no consensus is needed. Hansen's model has accurately predicted temperature changes for 20 years, so it must be correct. Therefore, if there is no consensus, the modelers must be correct. This means I've lost the consensus battle but have won the AGW is a fact war!

So prof, you admit your a

So prof, you admit your a new troll with a new name?

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

That supports my theory

That supports my theory that these Trolls all sound the same since they use the same talking points.

I wouldn't be supprised if

I wouldn't be supprised if half the trolls or more are the same  few people using diffeernt nom de plumes and trying different approaches. 

One of the idiots came on line talking like the liberal steriotype of dumb hick conservative.

I was waiting for him to claim he drove a pick up with a rebel flag and had a gun rack in the back. 

He tried it a few times. But when he had no takers he vanished.

"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT

So prof, you admit your a new troll with a new name?

correct! You

u got an answer correct, bassndude. Congratulations!

PROFESSOR DOPE

Like I said before...if we relied on consensus, we would still be taught that the earth is FLAT.

If conservatives are RIGHT, then liberals must be WRONG.
Thompson/Rice

lion king

the next timeyou need a doctor for some mysterious ailment, do you think it would be smarter to get more or fewer references for a doctor?

Would the diagnosis be better with one doctor or several doctors? Why do people get second, third and fourth opinions for an ailment? Medicine is science, isn't it? If so why do people go to several doctors and not just one ? They want to be more confident about the medical diagnosis. Consensus is important in order to check experimental evidence, ideas. It is part of the scientificmethod.

By the way, if you don't believe evolution is a fact, then you are guilty of nonscientific thought. There is no supernatural agent in science!

 

Medicine is science

If medicine is science, then why do they practice it?

So, you are comparing AGW to a medical diagnosis? Is that like a collective Wild-Ass-Guess?

I would imagine that the medical consensus your are referring to is more of a buddy-buddy system of covering each other's ass. It is more medical liability than group-think.

If conservatives are RIGHT, then liberals must be WRONG.
Thompson/Rice

medicine is a complicated issue

global warming is complicated. No one scientist can advance it's understanding without help from others. But, since you don't believe in consensus, you MUST conclude that the climate modelers are correct. After all, they don't need to be in agreement with other scientists. Right. So, Lion King, does this mean that since climate modelers accept AGW as fact , they must be correct. Right, no need for consensus. I hope you now see the problem of trying to do science without consensus.

Professor Illogical

I guess since you cannot win a debate on merit, you have to use convoluted logic to claim victory.

Enjoy life on the FLAT EARTH.

If conservatives are RIGHT, then liberals must be WRONG.
Thompson/Rice

LK, sorry to burst yoour bubble of self delusion but

I showed the importance of scientific consensus as part of the scientific method
I gave the names of internationally accepted science organizations that support my position
I gave refutations of denialist nonsense
I showed that climate modelling is valid and can predict future temperature accurately(James Hansen's model
I showed articles that demonstrate that humans are the cause of the warming
You failed to provide alternate explanations for the unprecedented rate of warming as shown by Michael Mann's hockey stick
I've shown a refutation to criticism of Mann's hockey stick which discredits Mcyntre and Mckittrick, critics of Mann

Sorry LK. You've lost. Bigtime.

Lionking: 3 Prof Truth:

Lionking: 3

Prof Truth: 0

free stinker

what the hell are you talking about?? What science expertise do you bring to the discussion?

"P" Truth....Scores

In the "real world"....we keep score.

Do you need a dictionary to help you with that?

Free just pointed out the "score" of the game.

BTW, buckwheat, you lost. 

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

Blonde. there is some

Blonde. there is some "science". i'd rather not be able to debate. It's just too stupid. Like the speed of light isn't determined by the nature of light. Rather it's up to consensus. So light will have to change if  the consensus is off. 

"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT

LK, let's be objective

I guess since you cannot win a debate on merit, you have to use convoluted logic to claim victory.

I stated AGW was a fact. This is based on looking at the rate of warming of the planet over the past 40 years and its correlation with

increasing amounts of CO2. Denialists keep using the "earth is in a natural cycle" argument without mentioning specific causes of the present day warming. I reference Mann's hockey stick, which you claim is discredited. I refute that with my own reference to Gristmill skeptic(how to talk to a skeptic). You dismiss this without a single demonstration of where my reference is wrong. (I guess you think it must be wrong because it undermines your denialist faith). I tried to refute as many denialist arguments as I could but probaly missed one because of time constraints. Any denialist argument I personally could not refute was referred to the realclimate.org website. Apparently, you denialists are terrified of looking like thefools that you are so you never tried to present your "evidence" at realclimate. Now some scientific illiterate states you 'won', 3 to 0. And you guys call yourselves rational thinkers???

 

Oi

The 95th attempt at innanity.

And the seven hundred and forty fourth reference to realclimate.

This one is a German, all. I know.  Kinfolk.  Stubborn as rocks. 

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

still waiting for you

to present something of value. I guess you are just another scientifically illiterate denialist. Also, the other denialists dishonestly present my position on light. The speed of light is found by measurement, but the method of measurement can produce different values. Some measured c values are better than others. My point is that through consensus, the most accurate value of c can be determined. C is a constant value. I'm discussing how the value of c is found, not that c changes. Maybe it's a communication problem. Anyway, this has nothing to do with AGW so what's the big deal??

Yawn. Coorelations aren't

Yawn. Coorelations aren't proof of a cause effect relationship. Then "real scientist" don't know that...  And the warming trend didn't last 40 years. Yawn. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz 

"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT

none of this contradicts AGW.

so what's your point? Where is your denialist "evidence??" Hmmmm? I'm waiting.

of course medicine is science

unfortunately it's complicated because of the fact that different people react differently to different drugs, so the more a consensus is reached by the medical community, the more confidence there is in the drug.

It's all about consensus. No single treatment may work for a given individual so the best drugs are defined how effective they are for the largest group of people or how few side effects they produce.

LK, your post makes NO sense!

please explain your logic. As I've said before, consensus is a provisional truth, subject to revision when new facts become available. As I said, I'll match your science understanding against mine any time.

Care to change subjects, Prof?

Economics?

You lie like a rug about science.

You must be a pathetic teacher of "science".

I pity your students.

Care to engage in a debate of ideas about the "real world"? 

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

the subject is science, AGW!

Something you know absolutely nothing about.  unless you have some denialist evidence, go back and watch hee haw reruns.  Don't bother me, insignificant one.

Prof Truth

Any real world experience, guy?

Never did get out of that Academia t