Michael Moore History Lesson: 'America is the Oldest Democracy in the World'
Something that truly scares people is the amount of misinformation emanating from media members that mistakenly carry a presumed credibility and therefore are wrongly considered disseminators of truth.
One such person is schlockumentary filmmaker Michael Moore who on Tuesday evening during an appearance on HLN's "The Joy Behar Show" demonstrated how little he knows about history as well as current events (video follows with transcript and commentary):
MICHAEL MOORE: And if he can build coalitions and have other people do the necessary humanitarian work that needs to happen when people are threatened, then I think we`re all behind that. We`re all for that. We all wish that.
ROSEANNE BARR: Doesn't it look like we`re all kind of really go to war against all Muslim people? It`s like five nations now. It's scary.
MOORE: I think if you live in the Muslim world, you're scared by that, too. That's why I think our involvement in this has to be of a different caliber than military. We can provide other things. I mean we're the oldest democracy in the history of the world.
Well, actually, the first instances of democracy on this planet date back to India and Mesopotamia circa 600 BC although Ancient Athens typically gets the credit in 500 BC. So, Moore was only off by about 2,300 years.
As for our current version of democracy, we shouldn't ignore the Magna Carta in 1215 or England's first elected parliament in 1265. With this in mind, any student of American history knows that our political structure was largely adopted from England's.
I guess the high and mighty Moore missed these classes.
But the history of democracy wasn't the only thing Moore got wrong Tuesday, for his next offering was just as addle-minded:
MOORE: And -- and in my state, in Michigan, they even passed a law that gives the governor the right to dissolve a city council and fire a mayor and take over a town if he believes the town isn't being run right.
BARR: Oh, my God.
(CROSS TALK)
MOORE: Now, now I`m serious yes --
BARR: How does it --
MOORE: Can you imagine if Obama proposed a law that gave him the power to dissolve the Ohio legislature just because he thought they were messing things up?
BARR: No.
MOORE: I mean, people would be, they'd be screaming, it would be -- it would be beyond socialist and Kenyan and everything else; they would have other names for him.
BARR: Absolutely.
MOORE: But they've been able to pull this off in just a matter of weeks.
What Moore was misinforming viewers about was Michigan's "Local Government and School District Fiscal Accountability Act" which was established to assist the state in helping localities balance their budgets and avoid going bankrupt.
Unlike what Moore told Barr, this doesn't give the governor "the right to dissolve a city council and fire a mayor and take over a town if he believes the town isn't being run right." Instead, it created a procedure by which the state can assess the financial condition of a local government, and if it is determined said government is in financial trouble, provide the means to manage it through its difficulties.
As such, this is not as authoritarian as Moore and the bill's detractors have been paranoically shouting about. However, for those watching, the damage was done.
Moore sadly is considered by many as credible, and the totally errant position he espoused Tuesday will be taken by some as factual for there was no one on the set to counter the misinformation.
And Paul Krugman wonders why voters are so ill-informed.
- Noel Sheppard's blog
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Comments
Moses
Submitted by Gothampc on Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:26pm.
Obviously Moore doesn't read the Bible. If he did, he would see that it is recorded that when the Hebrews were wandering in the Wilderness, Moses told them to elect representatives among themselves to decide low level disputes and generally organize themselves into a more efficient group.
He missed Civics Class too.
Submitted by CobraMan on Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:33pm.
"I guess the high and mighty Moore missed these classes."
Not only did Moore miss history class, he missed Civics class as well. Contrary to the beliefs of Moore, and so many like him, we are not a democracy; we're a Constitutional Republic. The importance of that distinction can not be understated.
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States. The US Constitution
Unless you're a fetus. The US Supreme Court
Or Anwar al-Awlaki.
it is my belief
Submitted by Clutch1956 on Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:44pm.
that children are intentionally "taught" that the USA is a democracy so that they will mentally align with Democrats as they get older.
And it is scary that there was that much weapons-grade stupid in such massive quantities in close proximity to each other. Just think, if Barr and Moore embraced, it could have set off a cataclysmic explosion of ignorance that would block out the sun for months! But at least that would have been their last hurrah and we would finally be done with these two obese dunces.
Right CobraMan,
Submitted by Ashrak on Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:46pm.
Democracy is a functional and just tool used within our form of government, not the form of government itself.
Straight Democracy as a form of government is where things like slavery come from as inalienable rights cannot exist within that form of government. Everything, Liberty itself included, is nothing but a slave to the will of the majority in such a system and it leads, without fail, to the 7 seven deadly sins that destroy every civilization which embraces it.
See this is the REAL reason lefties oppose the Pledge. Their opposition ain't really about God or religion, it is about refusing to admit we live in a REPUBLIC.
I am left to wonder why folks, especially in media, don't ask more "Moores" what it is they pledge allegiance to......whenever the talk about "our democracy".
P.S. Repeal the 17th.
History and civics
Submitted by texasborngranny on Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:58pm.
are not all Moore missed. The list of areas where he is lacking knowledge would go on for days.
His ignorance, like the importance of the difference between a democracy and a Constitutional Republic, cannot be overstated.
small quibble....
Submitted by wizardjr on Wed, 03/30/2011 - 8:26pm.
We are a Federal [Constitutional] Republic.
This is a federation of States. It and the States have a republican form government. In point of fact some of the 'states' are commonwealths, not that it makes a lot of difference. Just sayin' ...
Democracy vs Republic
Submitted by bassndude on Thu, 03/31/2011 - 9:53am.
It's mostly semantics your arguing here. You can call it a Representive Republic, Constitutional Republic or what ever.
A Republic is: a government having a chief of state who is not a monarch and who in modern times is usually a president : a political unit (as a nation) having such a form of government.
b: a government in which supreme power resides in a body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by elected officers and representatives responsible to them and governing according to law.
A republic is a form of government under a constitution which provides for the election of:
1) an executive and
2) a legislative body, who working together in a representative capacity, have all the power of appointment, all power of legislation all power to raise revenue and appropriate expenditures, and are required to create
3) a judiciary to pass upon the justice and legality of their governmental acts and to recognize
4) certain inherent individual rights.
Remove any one or more of these elements and you move to autocracy.
Which, in my view, is exactly what Clinton, Obama and FDR would absolutely love.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal/troll!!
Wow-Moore, Barr, on Behar?
Submitted by brutony1 on Wed, 03/30/2011 - 12:40pm.
Was this a meeting of Mensa? Im not a terrorist, or advocate any terroristic tendencies, but if I had a bomb,,and could only throw it at one place,,that might be a top contender! Unfortunately, I dont think theres enough mustard gas in the world to take those two sides of beef down! Besides, where theres mustard, that Dynamic Duo would find hot dogs!
When will liberals WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE! -Me
A question for Noel
Submitted by JeffC... on Wed, 03/30/2011 - 1:34pm.
Noel,
Could you actually feel the intelligence being sucked out of your body watching these two morons talk? Did it hurt?
Jeff
Submitted by Noel Sheppard on Wed, 03/30/2011 - 5:25pm.
Jeff,
Yes, but the intelligence immediately comes back when I write about such nonsense! :-)
If i remember the Mayflower
Submitted by ricklail on Wed, 03/30/2011 - 1:27pm.
If i remember the Mayflower Compact was based on the Magna Carta and the Mayflower Compact was a basis for our constitution.
yes and no...
Submitted by wizardjr on Wed, 03/30/2011 - 8:32pm.
At one point they voted for a communist commune existence. It lasted just long enough for the women to get pissed off at the young guys sitting at the beer house all day and then demanding food and laundry service. Not long thereafter it was you gets what you earns and a new charter. [true story]
I think that's was the first recorded instance of a women's revolt in the US. Susan B. Anthony, et al, upped the ante later. Much later some women were thoroughly revolting - Joy Blowhard. QED.
Federal Govt.
Submitted by CarolinaJimbo on Wed, 03/30/2011 - 1:46pm.
I think the Swiss claim to be the oldest Federal govt. still in existence.
We are not a Democracy
Submitted by CarolinaJimbo on Wed, 03/30/2011 - 1:47pm.
The U.S. is a Federal Republic. Not quite the same.
Questions
Submitted by GW on Wed, 03/30/2011 - 1:48pm.
What is the oldest existing Constitutional Republic on earth at this time? If it's the USA, could this be the source of Moore's confusion (in this particular example)?
Oh there you go
Submitted by GW on Wed, 03/30/2011 - 1:49pm.
Looks like my question has been answered. Thanks for that!
San Marino is the oldest
Submitted by Lakewood Ed on Wed, 03/30/2011 - 1:54pm.
San Marino is the oldest surviving sovereign state and constitutional republic in the world . . .
is that where the cherries come from?
Submitted by wizardjr on Wed, 03/30/2011 - 8:34pm.
I loved to eat them right out of the bottle. [what..? Maraschino cherries.]
Never mind.
Excuse me there, hot dog boy, but in what year did this country
Submitted by Dave. on Wed, 03/30/2011 - 2:07pm.
...become a democracy?
I must have missed it.
-Dave
Vote for the American in November
Movie remake?
Submitted by dreamsincolor on Wed, 03/30/2011 - 2:36pm.
I missed it, was this another remake of the movie "Dumb and Dumber"?
When have truth and facts
Submitted by Beukeboom on Wed, 03/30/2011 - 2:37pm.
When have truth and facts mattered to Michael Moore?
Okay, rhetorical question.
I'm surprised that Noel
Submitted by Satchmo on Wed, 03/30/2011 - 2:42pm.
I'm surprised that Noel didn't go for the obvious critique: America is not and never has been a democracy. This is American History and Civics 101.
Probably because Mr. Sheppard allows for the fact---
Submitted by matthewdean on Wed, 03/30/2011 - 2:51pm.
that his readers have a modicum of intelligence.
It's not like he was a liberal writing articles about conservative bias in the media.
MD
I'm guessing here, but Noel knows his readers
Submitted by Dave. on Wed, 03/30/2011 - 2:54pm.
are intelligent enough to know this nation was founded as a constitutional republic based on the rule of law, and not the whims of a tyrannical majority.
-Dave
Vote for the American in November
Perhaps, but would you refer
Submitted by Satchmo on Wed, 03/30/2011 - 3:12pm.
Perhaps, but would you refer to our form of government as "a current version of democracy"? We are not a democracy in any version.
mob rule
Submitted by Injest on Wed, 03/30/2011 - 8:44pm.
"We are not a democracy in any version."
I would say Obama's first 2 years were as close to a pure democracy we’ve ever seen, the Nov. election was a reply to Obama's democracy.
In a pure democracy, minorities do not have rights, they do not have a voice.
A pure democracy is mob rule (kinda like the Unions in WI).
The term democracy is
Submitted by Dan The Man 2 on Wed, 03/30/2011 - 9:17pm.
The term democracy is commonly used for a free society wherein the people in charge are chosen by popular vote. I use it and I'm sure many of us use it that way and say that the USA is a Democracy. One thing for sure it is becoming closer that way every day. If we end the electoral college then we are doomed.
True, Dan.
Submitted by texasborngranny on Fri, 04/01/2011 - 2:33pm.
Making it all the more important for those who know better to point out that calling the US form of government a democracy is at the very least inaccurate and additionally plays into the libs practice of telling a lie so often that it comes to be believed as the truth.
Well that's certainly an eye-opener, SatchelMouth---
Submitted by matthewdean on Wed, 03/30/2011 - 3:56pm.
as no one else has pointed that out in this thread.
MD
Otto
Submitted by permagrin on Wed, 03/30/2011 - 3:59pm.
While we are splitting hairs, is it not fair to say there has never been a real democracy anywhere? That is everyone gets a vote, women/children/slaves/males who didn't perform military service/immigrants/etc?
No such thing as a national referendum
Submitted by CobraMan on Wed, 03/30/2011 - 5:18pm.
The right to vote? Your right to vote is EXTREMELY limited in America, more so than in most other countries, especially "democracies."
When was the last time you actually got to vote on ANY federal policy, law, ect. Contrary to a democracy, WE don't have national referendums. We can choose who represents us in government, by way of Congress and the President, but that's about it on the federal level. We don;t even get to choose who our Appellate or Supreme Court judges are! That's not even CLOSE to a democracy.
America is, and always has been, a Constitutional Republic. There's no "splitting hairs" about it. That's just the way it is.
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States. The US Constitution
Unless you're a fetus. The US Supreme Court
Or Anwar al-Awlaki.
Important!
Submitted by almostacowboy on Wed, 03/30/2011 - 4:57pm.
Is he wearing a KFC cap?
Not to worry
Submitted by locomotivebreath1901 on Wed, 03/30/2011 - 6:11pm.
An obese, neo-marxist, multi-millionaire hypocrite film maker on the Joyless Behar show?
Not to worry. All that means is about 7 or 8 adolescents tuned in to watch.
Joy Behar and Michael Moore
Submitted by Radical1979 on Wed, 03/30/2011 - 6:19pm.
on one show. I wonder how many cameras broke in the filming of that episode?
Or for that matter...
Submitted by jpwcpa on Thu, 03/31/2011 - 12:31am.
...how many chairs broke?
I have to wonder why there
Submitted by MikeB on Thu, 03/31/2011 - 6:16pm.
I have to wonder why there wasn't an implosion of Biblical proportions when those two black holes of ignorance (yeah, I know, "black hole" is now a racist term - sue me) came in close proximity to each other. One would think that with that much ignorace in one location it would establish an event horizon wherein all intelligence in the known universe would be sucked in and disappear.
Nature abhors a vacuum.
Submitted by Beukeboom on Fri, 04/01/2011 - 9:34am.
Nature abhors a vacuum.
eh, democracy, republic, whatever
Submitted by michiganruth on Wed, 03/30/2011 - 8:00pm.
I really don't mind Moore (and MANY other Americans) thinking that we live in a democracy rather than a republic. that is, after all, what we were all taught in public school.
but what was Moore's point? because we are an "old democracy" we shouldn't use force? that's nonsensical.
as far as the poor Muslims being "scared" of the US, I say boo-hoo. we've saved WAY more Muslim lives than we've taken. we are in Libya at the request of the Arab League, among others. we saved thousands of Muslim lives in Bosnia, and thousands more in Iraq when we got rid of Saddam. so I don't really give a rip if they are scared of the big bad Great Satan.
speaking of helping people: have you ever noticed that when there's a worldwide tragedy like the Japan earthquake, the Muslim countries never send money or aid? whereas Israel, even tho it's a tiny country, is consistently among the first people helping at a disaster. and of course Americans are the MOST generous people on the planet.
yet we get no credit, and maroons like Michael Moore and the ill-named "Joy" Behar get rich off dissing their own country.
He Is Right By Almost Forty Years. Psychotic But Right
Submitted by Avitar on Wed, 03/30/2011 - 8:06pm.
The age to which Democracies survive in history is generally less than fifty years. Our Founding Fathers were keenly aware that Democracies fail and designed a Representative Republic with one house, the Senate, representatives of the various states’ professional politicians to keep an eye on the skanky vote buying politicians that would be attracted to the power of Congress.
The United States was shifted from a Representative Republic to a Democracy with the adoption of 17th amendment at the time of Woodrow Wilson. Since that time the United States has been on borrowed time.
I forget exactly the year when America became the oldest Democracy to survive and passed up the next longest surviving Democracy in history but it was before Carter was elected.
We have the record for the oldest surviving Democracy by almost forty years.
The next step is to become an authrtarian empire or to parish.
Switzerland
Submitted by Injest on Wed, 03/30/2011 - 8:31pm.
Moore sadly is considered by many as credible, and the totally errant position he espoused Tuesday will be taken by some as factual for there was no one on the set to counter the misinformation.
Perhaps Moore is actually from Switzerland?
After all in “Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. So long Holly. ...”
The Third Man is a 1949 British
Re; Mr. Michael Moore
Submitted by Bearone on Thu, 03/31/2011 - 9:31am.
Hello,
With all due respect, or no due respect to CNN. I want to know what happened to your "RESPECT" for the real news of today. First off you give a show to this dimly lite women Joy Bee-Har, and then you allow her to have on this foolish man that does not even know where he is most of the time. TO SUM IT ALL UP, AND THIS IS THE NICEST WAY I CAN DO THIS. MICHAEL MOORE HAS A VACANCY SIGN POSTED ON HIS FOREHEAD, AND I THINK YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT I AM SAYING RIGHT?
If these two got together,,
Submitted by brutony1 on Thu, 03/31/2011 - 1:00pm.
And formed their own country, it would be the 15th largest in the world!
When will liberals WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE! -Me
Michael your a dumb a**
Submitted by Bronco46 on Thu, 03/31/2011 - 4:53pm.
One word: ENGLAND