Two weeks ago, Fox News's Bill O'Reilly and Megyn Kelly debated the Washington state Governor's decision to allow an atheist display in the Capitol building positioned near a nativity scene.
Since then, Gov. Chris Gregoire has allowed other offerings to be placed in the building, but supposedly due to spacial contraints has decided to not permit any more.
With this in mind, O'Reilly invited Kelly back on "The Factor" Monday to engage in an entertaining Round Two of the debate (embedded video and transcript below the fold):
BILL O'REILLY, HOST: "Factor follow-up" segment tonight, you may remember that last week, the governor of Washington state Christine Gregoire told the world she was compelled to put up this atheist sign in the state capitol, a sign that attacks religion. And in her wisdom, the governor put it right next to the nativity scene.Well, now the governor says she isn't going to put up any further inappropriate displays but doesn't this violate her initial freedom of speech ruling? With us now, a gal who has been sticking up for Gregoire's legal position, attorney and very misguided FOX News anchor Megyn Kelly.
So why don't you make yourself feel better and just admit I was right and that you tried hard but now Gregoire says I don't really care about freedom of speech anymore.
MEGYN KELLY: I really.
O'REILLY: Nothing else is going to be put up.
KELLY: I have - I've never met a non-lawyer who argues the law so confidently. Albeit.
O'REILLY: Brilliant.
KELLY: So wrongly.
O'REILLY: Oh, come on.
KELLY: No. Listen. Either she has to accept all the displays or she doesn't. She has now put an end to the madness. She has stopped the insanity. So kudos to her for that. If she were to say no to that display, yes to that display, no to that, yes to that, she'd still be in trouble. But it's either yes to all or no to all under the policy as she has set it up.
O'REILLY: But she changed in midstream. She allowed the atheist sign.
KELLY: Right.
O'REILLY: .to be inappropriately placed and violating the decorum of the state capitol which was clearly stated that she had the option not to put that sign up there because of those two things.
KELLY: No, she didn't.
O'REILLY: And now, in the middle of the controversy because you're getting so much heat, she says, you know, no more freedom of speech. No more crazy sign because the crazy signs are now, how many, 30 of them now?
KELLY: Yes, they're overwhelmed.
O'REILLY: Right.
KELLY: They don't have the room. It's on his third floor display. Now they've got this one - the latest one is the flying spaghetti monster holiday display. She doesn't have.
O'REILLY: The flying spaghetti monster holiday display. All of these people doing this are mocking her, that's why they're doing it. But you can't change free speech in midstream.
KELLY: You can, Bill.
O'REILLY: How?
KELLY: What I've been saying all along is you can not have viewpoint discrimination. That is what's not allowed. That's why she can't say yes to the nativity.
O'REILLY: Well, the spaghetti people have a viewpoint.
KELLY: But no to the atheists.
She's shutting it all down from this point forward.
O'REILLY: So the press goes?
KELLY: No, what's in there now can remain.
O'REILLY: Why? Why do they, we get to remain.
KELLY: Because she paid.
O'REILLY: .the spaghetti guy.
KELLY: She's saying from this date forward, no more.
O'REILLY: Its arbitrary.
KELLY: We're out of room. The policy.
O'REILLY: Out of room? There's plenty of room.
KELLY: No, her position is the policies run amuck, which I agree he has.
O'REILLY: Yes.
KELLY: .but that doesn't make it.
O'REILLY: (INAUDIBLE).
KELLY: .discriminate things on viewpoint. She's shutting down all the viewpoints from this point forward.
O'REILLY: From this point forward?
KELLY: Yes, right.
O'REILLY: So she -- freedom of speech only goes up to last Friday. And then it evaporates because of the carnival that she instituted.
KELLY: Try to understand. It's a viewpoint discrimination is not OK.
O'REILLY: Yes.
KELLY: You can't say yes to that particular display, but no to that. If she kept the policy open, and display open.
O'REILLY: Here's where you're wrong.
KELLY: .and she said yes to the spaghetti.
O'REILLY: All right.
KELLY: .but no to the crazies out at Westboro Church.
O'REILLY: Here's where you're wrong.
KELLY: That's inappropriate.
O'REILLY: I want everybody to take notes because you're seeing Kelly, here's where you're wrong. Everybody who has applied the festivus from Seinfeld.
KELLY: They haven't gotten approval yet.
O'REILLY: .the crazy crank who wants to put up a sign that says Santa Claus will bring to you hell.
KELLY: Not approved yet.
O'REILLY: The spaghetti thing.
KELLY: Right.
O'REILLY: .all of them have viewpoints. Some of them are satirical viewpoints.
KELLY: Right.
O'REILLY: Some of them are hateful viewpoints. OK? It is no different, those viewpoints are no different than what the atheists did. The atheists didn't put up a symbol. If they had put up a symbol of Charles Darwin.
KELLY: That's what I've been arguing.
O'REILLY: Right, so.
KELLY: They're viewpoints. And once she invited viewpoints in the state capitol, they had access, just the way the atheists and the Christians did.
O'REILLY: So you're doing this dance. I said that she could have rejected to youth sign because it violated. The quorum was inappropriate.
KELLY: Right.
O'REILLY: She could have, legally could have. And let them take them in.
KELLY: You're wrong. You are so wrong on that. You don't get it. You're wrong. That would be the same as rejecting a Jewish menorah.
O'REILLY: No, it wouldn't.
KELLY: Yes, it would. Atheism.
O'REILLY: Inappropriate because of the hateful message?
KELLY: No, because you say so?
O'REILLY: Yes.
KELLY: No.
O'REILLY: Because I say so.
KELLY: You're wrong.
O'REILLY: And the state argues that in front of the court.
KELLY: You are wrong. If you put the power in Governor Gregoire's hands to decide what's appropriate and what's not, you can kiss the nativity scene goodbye in the future as well. This is why we don't allow state governors to decide what's appropriate and what's not.
O'REILLY: There was a ruling. As Lis Wiehl said here last week, that allowed..
KELLY: Lis doesn't know the background of the case.
O'REILLY: That allowed.
KELLY: Lis gave you a one line answer that you liked without the analysis.
O'REILLY: She's not going to be happy when she comes on.
KELLY: I respect Lis.
O'REILLY: OK.
KELLY: .but she hasn't researched this. And she was dead wrong.
O'REILLY: I have. She had wiggle room. But now if the festivus people or the spaghetti people, or the hateful Santa people want to sue her, they will win.
KELLY: No, it's not going to happen, because she's not kicking them because of their viewpoints. She's got other rational reasons for doing it. She's overwhelmed. Let me tell what you should have been done in this case.
O'REILLY: 20 seconds.
KELLY: Her problem is she said everyone, all the crazies come and comment. Once you have done, you can't shut it down based on viewpoint.
O'REILLY: Well do you know why she did that?
KELLY: What she should have said was we're going to accept religious holiday displays. No profanity. No - certain guidelines that you - that wouldn't be viewpoints.
O'REILLY: Atheism isn't a religion.
KELLY: Yes, it is. I'm sorry but the courts have held it is.
O'REILLY: It's not a religion.
KELLY: Sorry, Bill, but it is.
O'REILLY: It's not based on theology.
KELLY: It is a religious point of view. And it's been recognized as such by courts. And it is treated the same as Christianity by the courts. You're wrong.
O'REILLY: Then Festivus should be treated that way.
KELLY: And it would have been by this governor.
O'REILLY: Kelly. You know, all right, there you go. There's Kelly. We'll see you tomorrow night with Wiehl. You know, things are different.
And here are the results of our billoreilly.com poll. We asked you did the governor of Washington make an error in judgment allowing the atheists sign to be placed to the nativity scene? 25,000 of you voted. 88% disagree with Kelly. Just 12% agree with her.
Now THAT's entertainment.
—Noel Sheppard is the Associate Editor of NewsBusters. Follow him at Facebook and Twitter.
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Classic case
December 18, 2008 - 11:31 ET by MichelleCThis is a classic case of liberalism gone wild. They shudder at offending anyone and in the process create an absolute circus and then the animals take over the circus.
I'm just so darn proud of my state and governor right now! <sarc>
Republicans believe every day is the 4th of July. Democrats believe every day is April 15th ~ Ronald Reagan
Why the people of WA voted
December 18, 2008 - 11:47 ET by jistincaseWhy the people of WA voted that windbag back into office is beyond me. We are going to be more in debt than ever, she is going to green the farmers to death and make us the highest taxed state in the union. I hope all the liberal tree huggers over in Seattle choke to death on their starbucks coffee.
jic... She's a witch and
December 18, 2008 - 14:08 ET by bigtimerjic...
She's a witch and a half...the agenda of people/and other Governors like her politically is to put farmers, miners, loggers, oil businesses all out of business...let alone independent small businesses of all types...it's Marxism to the max.
O's energy task force is going to make sure this is done, plus we have the good old Endangered Species Act that is going to go full force again hand in hand with all of this.
It is that simple...it's the plan Stan.
Now we have O and congress to ensure all of this..., plus the Judges they will ram through to add to all the other leftist Judges to fill the courts, which there are a lot of vacancies to-boot...we are so forked.
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
Kelly says
December 18, 2008 - 11:39 ET by FinerThingsClubMemberInTraining"Try to understand..."
Gool luck there, Meg!
Honestly, I really think that O'Reilly gets off on this debates with Megyn.
I've grown tired of his demeaning attitude towards women actually. How he refers to them by their last names and why he continually brings that "sexy" Russian chick on all the time.
Not to give The Mortician any evidence, but it does reach levels of creepiness.
Can you really blame
December 18, 2008 - 13:12 ET by red_dragon311Can you really blame O'Reilly, Megyn Kelly could stab in the eye with a rusty fork and i would get off.
and if it it has been said once it has been said 1000 times, why are conservitive women so much more attractive then libs women.
one last thought Two words come to mid when i thnk of Megyn Kelly and Larua Ingram......Joe Sandwich.
(and any "off color" comment made was made in jest for the purpose of being funny. and it sickens me that i have to say this to CYA but I have made comments before and a fellow member did not find them funny, and saw fit to ask me to edit it. for a second there i thought we still lived in the USA where we have free speech and if you don't like somthing you jusy ignore it and move on)
FINALY A REAL CANDIATE FOR PRESIDENT!!!!!!!!!
http://zod2008.com/index.htm
Can you say "Ann
December 18, 2008 - 13:29 ET by arkansaszippersCan you say "Ann Coulter?" Wow, what a babe, right!?!
She's too skinny
December 18, 2008 - 15:03 ET by mizflame98She's too skinny IMO.
Perfect Demotivator for the Obama Administration
http://www.despair.com/government.html
Plus she looks like the
December 18, 2008 - 18:25 ET by arkansaszippersPlus she looks like the devil spawn of Gumby and a baby giraffe.
Of course, I happen to like that in a lady.
she's ok FINALY A
December 18, 2008 - 15:05 ET by red_dragon311she's ok
FINALY A REAL CANDIATE FOR PRESIDENT!!!!!!!!!
http://zod2008.com/index.htm
and if it it has been
December 18, 2008 - 15:00 ET by mizflame98and if it it has been said once it has been said 1000 times, why are conservitive women so much more attractive then libs women.
Because we conservative women aren't on some hate life, hate America mission that forces the hate, vitriol, and ugliness to bleed out from the inside and show on the outside. Prime example, Rosie O'Donnel is ugly inside and out. Cindy McCain is beautiful inside and out.
Perfect Demotivator for the Obama Administration
http://www.despair.com/government.html
→ Megyn Rules
December 18, 2008 - 11:45 ET by Cool ArrowYou can count on Megyn for fireworks any time she's up against Bill.
I'm troubled by the disrespectful treatment of the Flying Spaghetti Monster though.
As the kids would say....
December 18, 2008 - 11:50 ET by BlondeMegyn pwns O'Reilly.
Touche, Megan!
O'REILLY: Nothing else is going to be put up.
KELLY: I have - I've never met a non-lawyer who argues the law so confidently. Albeit.
O'REILLY: Brilliant.
KELLY: So wrongly.
Megyn and Ann
December 18, 2008 - 12:24 ET by iveseenitallMegyn Kelly and Ann Coulter are much smarter than O'Reilly and knows it. But as is the case with many high-powered, ego-driven men, he can't deal fairly with good-looking, intelligent women. A flaw in his personality.
NEVER,NEVER trust a "liberal"
Well...
December 18, 2008 - 12:26 ET by BlondeThe best tactic when dealing with smart blondes who are right, is to shut ones mouth.
Trust me.
Blonde, He should lay off
December 18, 2008 - 12:53 ET by Chris NormanBlonde, He should lay off the brunettes also. The way he speaks to Mary Katharine Ham and the woman internet reporter from Townhall makes me want them to sarcastically say at the end of the segments, "It was nice having you talk to me, Bill". There's no interview or discussion - just that windbag telling them what he thinks.
Exactly right Chris...hair
December 18, 2008 - 17:08 ET by bigtimerExactly right Chris...hair color matters not with BOR.
I detest the way he interrupts Hamm or Ham or however it is spelled.
As an aside, I agree with Lotr on this subject.
I'm out of this thread ...moving on to others.
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
Huh?
December 18, 2008 - 12:56 ET by lotrMaybe, maybe not. Ego does not necessarily indicate a lack of intelligence. And, based on my watching of his show, he treats women no different than men. Just because he doesn't treat them with kid gloves doesn't mean he "can't deal fairly with them."
And based on this "debate" it's still my conclusion that O'Reilly was right, not wrong, perhaps not in terms of lawyer-speak, but in terms of traditional common sense. The new-liberal Democrat governor screwed up by allowing an anti-religion placard next to the nativity scene depicting the first Christmas, a federal holiday.
And one by one dropped the revellers in the blood-bedewed halls of their revel, and died each in the despairing posture of his fall. -- Edgar Allan Poe
→ In O'Reilly's defense
December 18, 2008 - 13:39 ET by Cool ArrowI don't see any other male hosts providing to women the opportunities for evening exposure that O'Reilly does.
When Megyn or Kirsten get their night time gigs, it will be due in part to O'Reilly's regular weekly features of them.
In O'Reilly's Prosecution
December 18, 2008 - 18:32 ET by Chris Norman"I don't see any other male hosts providing to women the opportunities for evening exposure that O'Reilly does."
Dean Martin and The Gold Diggers?
CA,
I usually agree with you but not this time. While, yes, I'd grant that O'Reilly frequently has on women guests, he still acts condescending and domineering towards them (no different than anyone else) like he's Big Daddy and the frequency and the way he pairs them suggests, at least to me, it's a male ego thing. There's plenty of women on other shows and plenty are hosts of their own shows (Megyn Kelly has her own morning show and is all over Fox). These smart women don't need to depend on a helping hand from "Uncle Bill". Actually, television could do entirely without his lecture sessions to Margaret Hoover (she's just silly and I hope she's not an up and comer) and Monica Crowley. In my little opinion, nothing of interest ever comes out of these segments.
Jane Hall
December 18, 2008 - 19:22 ET by mizflame98Notice how O'Reilly talks to Jane Hall even when she's agreeing with him? She probably got fed up with him because the Weekends with Bernie & Jane segment only features Bernard Goldberg now.
Perfect Demotivator for the Obama Administration
http://www.despair.com/government.html
mizflame... I have also
December 18, 2008 - 19:26 ET by bigtimermizflame...
I have also noticed that too...in fact both issues you bring up.
I haven't seen her around either lately...but he does always dismiss her.
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
BOR needs to shut up.
December 18, 2008 - 12:24 ET by katainkentFirst of all he was wrong in the first place. Second, we already had a small circus here. He opens his mouth and the Big Top opened and three rings are now in full swing. Gregoire can't make things run smoothly in the best conditions.
"part of what I'm hoping to introduce as the next president is a new ethic of [government enforced] responsibility" - B. Obama
Bill O'Really
December 18, 2008 - 13:55 ET by IndigoChillHeh, Bill's not terribly informative (how did he get his own show, again?), but when you read the transcript, it makes for an entertaining read at least.