The failure of American media to properly vet the political beliefs of Barack Obama during the just concluded presidential campaign was on full display Sunday when the president-elect made clear just how much of a socialist he really is, and did so with nary a challenge from "Meet the Press" moderator Tom Brokaw.
Makes you wonder what the results might have been on November 4 if the press had done its job in exposing Obama's radical economic beliefs rather than attacking Joe the Plumber for suggesting he had them, and how much differently his appearance on "Meet the Press" would have gone Sunday if the moderator wasn't completely on board with these left-leaning philosophies.
Such is important when considering Obama's comments previously reported by NewsBusters here and here as well as a truly telling statement by the president-elect that working for your own financial benefit is "not good for anybody" (video available here):
TOM BROKAW, MODERATOR: Your vice president Joe Biden said during the course of this campaign it would be patriotic for the wealthy to pay more on taxes. In this economy, does he still believe that?
BARACK OBAMA: Well, I think what Joe meant is exactly what I described which is that if, if our entire economic policy is premised on the notion that greed is good and what's in it for me, it turns out that that's not good for anybody. It's not good for the wealthy, it's not good for the poor, and it's not good for the vast majority in the middle.
Stop the tape. Worrying about one's own finances is not good for anybody? Have you ever heard a more socialist statement from a president or president-elect?
Why didn't Brokaw jump on this?
This man and his wife make an extraordinary amount of money compared to the average American. Did they ask "What's in it for me" when they negotiated their salaries before he moved into the public sector? Did he ask "What's in it for me" when he negotiated his million-dollar book deal? Has all that money THEY'VE MADE prior to him winning the White House hurt them?
And what about the record number of contributions he received during the campaign? When he was asking people to make these donations, wasn't it about HIM?
History will show him to be the first billion-dollar candidate. Wasn't his entire campaign therefore more a product and function of greed than any before it?
That Brokaw let this slide without any followup was disgraceful, as was Obama's almost incomprehensible elaboration:
If we've learned anything from this current financial crisis, think about how this evolved. You had a situation in which you started seeing home foreclosures rise, you had a middle class that was vulnerable, and couldn't make payments. Suddenly, all the borrowing that been, and, and, and, all the speculation that had been premised on those folks doing okay that starts evaporating. Next thing you know you've got Lehman Brothers going under. People used to think that, well there's no connection between those two things. It turns out that when we all do well then the economy as a whole is going to benefit.
Really? Is that what happened in the last eight years leading to this crisis.
Furthermore, is that we learned from the collapse of the Soviet Union? Is that what's going on in China, Cuba, North Korea, or Venezuela at the moment? Are the people in those countries faring better than Americans?
Maybe more importantly, should hundreds of years of successful capitalism in this country be ignored because a small percentage of folks in this country foolishly purchased homes that they couldn't afford, and a small percentage of financial service industry employees foolishly concocted a scheme that was based more on the principles of Charles Ponzi than sound business practices?
And what of the role of the government sponsored enterprises Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac who gave more money to Sen. Barack Obama than to any other member of Congress except Christopher Dodd?
As the president-elect was pointing fingers at greed, looking out for number one, and Lehman Brothers, why didn't Brokaw bring up Obama's own connections to the two companies at the heart of this financial crisis? Or how about asking the president-elect what role his Treasury Secretary nominee Timothy Geithner played in the decision not to bail out Lehman Brothers?
Or questioning Obama about the role Geithner and then Treasury Secretary Larry Summers played in the Clinton-signed bills -- the Financial Services Modernization Act and the Commodities Futures Modernization Act -- which made what Lehman Brothers and others did to cause this financial crisis possible?
Sadly, no such inquiries were made by Brokaw, thereby allowing the president-elect to blame capitalism for the current financial crisis while advocating socialism as the solution.
Nice job, Tom. You've done your industry proud on your way out the door.
—Noel Sheppard is the Associate Editor of NewsBusters.





















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Comments Policy
Obama is best described
December 7, 2008 - 14:36 ET by 10ksnookerAs a Kenyan COMMUNIST, just like his pappy.
Doh!
December 7, 2008 - 14:41 ET by DontFeedTheTrollsObama is not a Democrat and Brokaw is not a journalist.
D
Impeach Obama!
Keep the ILLEGALS out, join NumbersUSA to send free faxes to your reps.
A new term is needed.
December 7, 2008 - 14:46 ET by Wilbur747Since Our Dear Leader's 'style' has elements of the styles of Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Wright, Ayers, etc, No one term can describe his social beliefs. I think we need a new term.
Obamunism.
All the social and politcal science studies books will have to be changed, just like Obamessiah wants.
I didn't sign up for this
December 7, 2008 - 14:46 ET by katainkentfour year socio-economic EXPIRIMENT!
everytime he opens his mouth I get this sick to my stomach feeling like bad things are on the horizon.
"part of what I'm hoping to introduce as the next president is a new ethic of [government enforced] responsibility" - B. Obama
Foreboding
December 7, 2008 - 15:16 ET by nofatek in k: I get the same feeling. I keep thinking it will be the "soft" form of fascism, ala that described in "Liberal Fascism". But we know also the history of communist/socialist takeovers- Hitler, Lenin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc. Having read "The Gulag Archepelago", I keep praying that we don't somehow, God forbid, get some type of repeat of that type of scenario.
Foreboding. I think that describes it perfectly.
As Wilbur747 said: Obamunism. His communist ties are irrefutable. Hopefully the safeguards built into this system will prevent another chapter to the Gulag or "Black Book of Communism".
BTW, apropos of nothing but curiosity, would that be "Kent" as in England?
"The future is not set. There is no fate but what we make for ourselves."
michaelyon-online.com
ah no
December 7, 2008 - 15:52 ET by katainkentI live in upper Northern California, aka Washington State.
The way I am looking at things right now Obama believes he can use the same ideas as Hoover/FDR and 'do it right' by throwing yet more money at it. This seems like nothing more than the definition of insanity. It also shows an ego of epic proportions.
"part of what I'm hoping to introduce as the next president is a new ethic of [government enforced] responsibility" - B. Obama
That's how liberals'
December 7, 2008 - 15:58 ET by motherbeltThat's how liberals' egotistical thinking always works: they can make failed ideas work because this time the "right" people with the "right" intentions will be doing it! They have the same idea about nationalized health care.
And the other reason they failed the first time is that they didn't spend enough money, no matter how much it was.
And now Obama is going to "fix" our schools by....wait for it.....spending more money. Fix up buildings, make them energy-efficient, and upgrade computers. As if that's going to improve education. We will just have illiterates in fancier, "greener" buildings.
my children
December 7, 2008 - 16:11 ET by katainkenthave already attended two top notch public schools in this state. the best books, the best technology. laptops for every child. smart boards, electronic grading systems. Our property taxes are ginormous (yes, that's a word). Have we seen results? Well if you count passing the WASL, sure. They all crushed it the first year they took it.
But, for the better part of the last 3 yrs we've had to subsidize their education. History rendered meaningless without context. Writing rendered useless without process. Math... oh don't get me started with this 'guess and check' crap.
We wonder what the heck they spend all day doing.
"part of what I'm hoping to introduce as the next president is a new ethic of [government enforced] responsibility" - B. Obama
I always wondered...
December 7, 2008 - 16:51 ET by Wilbur747what the public school system would be like if parents that home/private schooled didn't have to pay local school taxes? It's bad now so a loss on revenue can't make it any worse. Maybe it would shake things up.
I know, I've heard the lines about how we're all responsible for "our children".
Public school kids are vastly undereducated when compared to home/private schooled kids and I'd rather have a home/private schooled kid as Prez.
I just wondered what would happen if there was a law that allowed h-schoolers to keep their P-school taxes. It would be interesting.
I for one would have much more money (shh, don't tell the Great One) and I would never have to see yet another high school football stadiun being built to replace the one that was built 5 years ago.
They're coming
December 7, 2008 - 20:25 ET by nofateWilbur: I sincerely doubt that will ever happen, much as we would like to see it. Check out this Tom Blumer blog about home schoolers.
"The future is not set. There is no fate but what we make for ourselves."
michaelyon-online.com
I doubt it too...
December 7, 2008 - 20:41 ET by Wilbur747but it would be interesting to see. Unfortunatley, the public school system is how our kids are, how should I say it? Indoctrinated into a 'new way of thinking'.
I was educated in private Catholic schools, and while the public schools had shop class, I had SAT/ACT prep classes.
If the lib/dems control the education process, they'll be better able to enact their 'change'.
Marx and Lenin said you need to start with the children.
well then
December 7, 2008 - 23:47 ET by katainkentunless all conservative families take an active roll in deprogramming their children I'd say we're screwed.
"part of what I'm hoping to introduce as the next president is a new ethic of [government enforced] responsibility" - B. Obama
I don't think screwed is the word...
December 8, 2008 - 00:08 ET by Wilbur747We conservatives, both with and without kids need to deprogram them from the left wing public school education drivel .
I have a friend whose daughter thinks that Thomas Jefferson's claim to fame was that he was a slave owner. Sad.
Whether at Thanksgiving, Christmas, church or where ever they are. Let's stop the indoctrination!
Bring 'em to my house...I'll give them homework!
All seriousness aside, you're right, we all need to take an active role.
Noel, Yet there are
December 7, 2008 - 14:48 ET by Chris NormanNoel,
Yet there are liberals, like my brother, who insist, because they're sophisticated thinkers who understand the nuances of politics better than knuckle dragging conservtives, that Obama will govern from "the center" - despite his public statements. How many times will he have to reaffirm his beliefs in public before there are no more nuances for them to gauge?
Show him this...
December 7, 2008 - 14:56 ET by Wilbur747http://www.worldnetd...
Interesting how Lenin's theories on convincing the masses are proving right.
Obama thinks everyone should
December 7, 2008 - 14:48 ET by the strugglerObama thinks everyone should suffer.It's been his platform.Now he gets to do it.
Everyone But Him
December 7, 2008 - 14:57 ET by HoosierEmHow much suffering will the Obama family go through over the next four years? Everything will spiral downward even further but the chorus will sing that it is all Bush's fault. Sadly, his followers all believe that and will never objectively look at his failures as they pile up along those interstates and bridges he plans on improving.
Obama thinks everyone should suffer...
December 8, 2008 - 09:09 ET by Par for the CourseI saw a comment about socialism that I think sums it up pretty well:
Noel, it's because Michelle and Barack are capable...
December 7, 2008 - 15:00 ET by superconof handling the responsibility of large sums of money.They are super educated you know.
This man and his wife make an extraordinary amount of money compared to
the average American. Did they ask "What's in it for me" when they
negotiated their salaries before he moved into the public sector? Did
he ask "What's in it for me" when he negotiated his million-dollar book
deal? Has all that money THEY'VE MADE prior to him winning the White
House hurt them?
It probably wouldn't be wise if everybody had money as we would probably just be spending it on lottery tickets and cigarettes and liquor.
Look...Obama doesn't want you to be "poor" but come on,what do you need $250,000 a year for?Are you going to gold plate your toilet or something.It's better to let the experts in government handle that money and distribute it properly where it belongs.
Funny
December 7, 2008 - 15:07 ET by blingbling65I thought the media was pretty clear this guy is a socialist, I had been under the impression that this is what the American people wanted, no?
Wow!
December 7, 2008 - 15:12 ET by Noel SheppardWow! And I thought Obama's statement would be the most absurd thing I'd hear today. ns
Seems my tag line is more
December 7, 2008 - 18:59 ET by ckc1227Seems my tag line is more appropriate than ever, Noel, lol.
"Libs never let you down. You don't have to talk to one very long before the stupid comes out."
'Tis true, but there might have been
December 7, 2008 - 19:08 ET by FastEda </sarc> left off - then, it get's to the bottom of the whole statement.
There is no sense in being stupid, if you can't prove it! - my dad V
Oh I get it
December 7, 2008 - 15:07 ET by DelsaWhen I go to work, like I did this morning to show real estate, and like I will again later this afternoon until after midnight at my second job, I should not be thinking about how my bills may get paid.
Instead I should be thinking about how my hard labor should benifit my neighbors.
I get it. Now I see the big picture.
I am so thankful we have a president elect who understands how to FIX things.
God save us all.
If Capitalism is so fragile
December 7, 2008 - 15:19 ET by blingbling65If Capitalism is so fragile and delicate that
"[a] small percentage of folks in this country foolishly purchased homes
that they couldn't afford, and a small percentage of financial service
industry employees foolishly concocted a scheme"
can bring the entire capitalist system around the world crashing to its knees, then maybe Capitalism isn't a system worth saving let alone fighting for?
Capitalism with the least
December 7, 2008 - 15:24 ET by Clear thinkerCapitalism with the least amount of government interference possible is worth fighting for! Minimize the governments role in it and things will blossom.
Shocking Update: The Left Still Hating Gov. Sarah Palin A McCain insider starts a petition to tell Sarah Palin to just shut up.
Making Fun of AGW http://giovanniworld.wordpress.com/
"A McCain insider starts a
December 7, 2008 - 16:20 ET by needle"A McCain insider starts a petition to tell Sarah Palin to just shut up."
What?!? Do you have a link to this POS? That is an Obama-like tactic.
Maybe they saw the straw poll here (29 for McCain vs 2425 for Palin) and related comments unfavorable to McCain.
Impunitas semper ad deteriora invitat.
needle... Just click on
December 7, 2008 - 21:03 ET by Clear thinkerneedle...
Just click on "The Left Still Hating Gov. Sarah Palin". The whole story is there.
New North American Currency?
Making Fun of AGW http://giovanniworld.wordpress.com/
question
December 7, 2008 - 15:33 ET by katainkentdo you actually believe what you just postulated or are you trying to be glib.
"part of what I'm hoping to introduce as the next president is a new ethic of [government enforced] responsibility" - B. Obama
kata
December 7, 2008 - 15:35 ET by Noel Sheppardkata,
FYI: This is a troll. ns
uh huh
December 7, 2008 - 15:37 ET by katainkentand right now s/he is looking up postulated and glib so its all good. ;)
"part of what I'm hoping to introduce as the next president is a new ethic of [government enforced] responsibility" - B. Obama
LOL....when I saw the first
December 7, 2008 - 15:49 ET by motherbeltLOL....when I saw the first comment I thought maybe he was being sarcastic.....and then I saw the next one.
Troll, troll, troll your boat.......
The point I was trying to
December 7, 2008 - 15:49 ET by blingbling65The point I was trying to make is that blaming the current financial
crisis on homeowners who bought more home then they could afford is a horrible
argument for a free-market capitalist to make. And I don't understand why republicans
are still making this claim? Because as I said, if 3% of sub-prime mortgages
defaulting in America can cause the entire capitalist system around the world
to come crashing down, then capitalism wouldn't be something worth saving. But
lucky for pro-capitalist this crisis was not caused by a small percentage of delinquent
homeowner, or a small percentage of radical employees in the financial industry.
bb65, Look up COMMUNITY REINVESTMENT ACT.
December 7, 2008 - 16:38 ET by upcountrywaterCRA was forced on the banks, by your buddies the (D)*s. With the caveat, we are big brother and we will bail you out.. if things go belly up .. well they went BAD...VERY BAD
AND NOW, 0bama, is "SHOVEL READY"
MY FREEDOMs will be a thing of the past.
Thanks to you bling65 buddy to the KKK you RAVING (D)*
What did you say?
December 8, 2008 - 01:48 ET by TelemarkTumaloThe last time I checked, it was our esteemed President Bush who was espousing bailout for subprime mortgages, the Big 3 and AIG! Is he a left leaning commie Pinko too?
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the
American public." President Theodore Roosevelt
"Because as I said, if 3%
December 7, 2008 - 18:56 ET by ckc1227"Because as I said, if 3% of sub-prime mortgages
defaulting in America can cause the entire capitalist system around the world to come crashing down, then capitalism wouldn't be something worth saving."
What, saying something remarkably stupid once wasn't enough for you, lol? Yeah, time to scrap the system that has made us the most prosperous, most powerful nation in the world...you know, because it doesn't work perfectly 100% of the time. Next you'll be telling us air travel is a failure because a jetliner can be brought down by something as simple as a couple of birds.
By the way, capitalism hasn't come crashing down around me. My business is booming, my house is still being paid on time, and I'm shopping for a new SUV this week. Shh, don't tell Obama though. Looking out for ones self is apparently a bad thing.
"Libs never let you down. You don't have to talk to one very long before the stupid comes out."
Capitalism is a system
December 7, 2008 - 15:34 ET by Trix RabbitCapitalism is a system worth both saving and fighting for. But without the virtues of honesty and self-reliance, it is no longer capitalism, but a plutarchy - which we have right now.
Socialism is not the answer because like a plutocracy, it too lacks any virtue.
If the greedy bastard robber-baron idiots in the government would just understand that I can best serve my fellow citizens by keeping their #@*& ing hands out of my pockets, then capitalism would flourish - as it well should.
Liberal: a power worshipper without power. George Orwell
Capitalism is to be blamed!
December 7, 2008 - 19:19 ET by FastEdSimply, it needs personal responsibility, facts, courage to try, and more courage to fail and start again. As you've stated, our "smarter then thou" gov'ment, needs to realize that helping the underserved is an enabelling(sic) gesture that will foster more of the same behavior. When "demanding" personal responsibility, as in what this country used to be, then everyone ('cept the hand out crowd) will rise to the challenge and become strong, powerful and rich (economically and spritually). I don't think the "people" will put up with this socialistic idea, once they see the direction it takes (along with the freedoms that will disappear), but it will take a long time to make things right again. That's my 2 cents, before taxes!
There is no sense in being stupid, if you can't prove it! - my dad V
Holy Moley
December 7, 2008 - 15:40 ET by DontFeedTheTrollsIf Europe was so fragile that one man (Adolph Hitler) could bring it crashing to it's (figurative) knees, perhaps Europe wasn't worth saving? Is that your point?
D
Impeach Obama!
Keep the ILLEGALS out, join NumbersUSA to send free faxes to your reps.
Talk about babies and bath
December 7, 2008 - 22:02 ET by MrSnugglesTalk about babies and bath water. The problem isn't capitalism, the problem is socialist ideas like the CRA.
Capitalism did not cause the financial crisis, Government did
December 8, 2008 - 12:28 ET by PopularTechI understand economics is a tough subject for those who don't understand it but you need to get educated before you make ridiculous statements like this.
Understanding the financial crisis (Video) (8min)
Don't Blame Capitalism (Peter Schiff, The Washington Post)
Economic Depressions: Their Cause and Cure (Murray N. Rothbard, Ph.D. Professor Emeritus of Economics)
Censored Global Warming Videos
""[a] small percentage of
December 8, 2008 - 12:38 ET by NL207""[a] small percentage of folks in this country foolishly purchased homes that they couldn't afford, and a small percentage of financial service industry employees foolishly concocted a scheme"
Nothing could be further from the truth.
What these people did, only possible through the auspices of government intervention, was to contaminate confidence in the security of 70% of all mortgage debt in the US.
How? Simple. Freddie and Fannie who controlled 70% of the mortgage market bought the mortgage portfolios of primary lenders and bundled them into bonds co-mingling the weak debt, lent at prime rates, with the strong debt. They then resold these bonds to investors as AAA mortgage backed securities without indicating that they were actually co-mingled securities containing some percentages of B, BB and BBB class debt. When the "few" fools defaulted on their mortgages, the truth about these securities leaked out and investors promptly derated the quality of the entire Fannie / Freddie debt pool because the bad debt was indistiguishable from the good debt.
And who encouraged those
December 8, 2008 - 12:41 ET by Clear thinkerAnd who encouraged those bad loans? DEMOCRATS!
The Left Still Hating Gov. Sarah Palin
Making Fun of AGW http://giovanniworld.wordpress.com/
Clear, It is much worse
December 8, 2008 - 12:49 ET by NL207Clear,
It is much worse than that. Not only did the Democrats cause this and cover for it, but the acts committed by Fannie and Freddie were outright criminal fraud of an even greater scope than the actions of Skilling and Fastow at Enron.
Franklin D. Raines, Jim Johnson and Jamie Gorelick at the least must be sent to prison. I personally believe all of Chris Dodd, Barack Obama and Barney Frank must join them there. This represents the largest Fraud in American history. In dollar value it simply dwarfs anything that has come before it. When the final bill is toted, I think it will exceed $1 Trillion. Enron is chump change in comparison.
NL
December 8, 2008 - 22:08 ET by NorthCoasterI've thought that the reason that Barney, Chris, Charlie, Harry and Nancy were shouting so loudly and pointing so aggressively was that they are trying to re-direct attention away from themselves. I've seen this done many times to a smaller audience and unfortunately, it translates well to the National stage.
Misdirection on the
December 9, 2008 - 08:28 ET by NL207Misdirection on the national political stage only works if the "magician" has a complicit media spotlight to help conceal the truth.
Obamanomics (emended):
December 7, 2008 - 15:40 ET by needle'What's In It For Me' [t]hinking [is] 'Not Good For Anybody' except me (i.e., the ultimate No. ONE).
Impunitas semper ad deteriora invitat.
What???
December 7, 2008 - 16:45 ET by Tyler DurbinDidn't this guy just buy his wife a $20,000 ring? Now he's lecturing us on the topic of greed?
"Virtue is more to be feared than vice, because its excesses are not subject to the regulation of conscience."
Tyler
December 7, 2008 - 16:48 ET by Noel SheppardTyler,
This was debunked: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iws_VLNyRvFjaUFcUOPxgJY-n-wAD94QOU6O0. ns
Obama
December 7, 2008 - 16:40 ET by MCPO AirdaleObama is a Marxist-trained idiot.
MCPO
December 7, 2008 - 17:22 ET by the strugglerHa!
NOT fair!
December 7, 2008 - 19:21 ET by FastEdgiving idiots a bad rap like that!
There is no sense in being stupid, if you can't prove it! - my dad V
Tough call here
December 7, 2008 - 16:59 ET by dboSince the consensus among economists is that free markets are better than micro-managed ones and that the invisible hand works better than the iron fist I think it's safe to say that the Zero is a economics denier. Either that or just a plain idiot.
you didn't get the memo?
December 7, 2008 - 17:43 ET by katainkentGreed™ is bad!
"part of what I'm hoping to introduce as the next president is a new ethic of [government enforced] responsibility" - B. Obama
Nowhere is there more greed than from within government
December 7, 2008 - 19:21 ET by dboWatch this 2 minute video as Milton Friedman explains to fiberal talk show host Phil Donahue what greed is. Donahue winds up with his jaw somewhere south of San Antonio.
http://www.youtube.c...
Thanks
December 7, 2008 - 19:52 ET by littlemissmuffinThanks for the video. Well worth watching!
"If we conservatives moved to those seven non-existent States, the government couldn’t find us and tax us to death!"
dbo
December 8, 2008 - 02:00 ET by DelsaThanks so much for the clip of Milton. I cut my economic teeth (so to speak) on he and his wife's book "Free To Choose"
He is the only place to start when it comes t economics.
And he made it easy to understand.
Thanks for the memory.
check out...
December 7, 2008 - 17:31 ET by jackie3This thread. The Amero is already being printed and minted.
http://www.restoreth...
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
"Why didn't Brokaw jump on
December 7, 2008 - 17:57 ET by Gat New York"Why didn't Brokaw jump on this?"
This was brokaw's swan song and he wanted a keepsake video of his memorable last interview and hug with Obama.
Brokaw's return to MTP was an embarrassment. The man completely abused the privilege of being the MTP host during this campaign and was nothing more than the lead enabler for Obama.
same old song from the left
December 7, 2008 - 17:58 ET by candanceWhat's mine is mine, and what's yours is selfishness.
I wonder how those policemen in DC feel since they got stiffed working overtime for Obama's coronation while Obama runs around bragging about an extra 30 million he just can't seem to spend. Guess the unions only care about overtime pay when it embarrasses an evil corporation.
I'm a typical white person.
Here's a story about how
December 7, 2008 - 22:27 ET by motherbeltHere's a story about how the inauguration won't be skimped on
"We're
mindful of the fact that people in this country are hurting, that
they're going through hard times," said Linda Douglass, spokeswoman for
the Presidential Inaugural Committee. "On the other hand, we see this
not just as a celebration of an election, but as a time for people to
come together and celebrate their common values and shared aspirations
and goals."
I get it now: extravagance will be called "patriotic" because Obama will claim "it's not about me....."
So much anger...
December 8, 2008 - 01:39 ET by TelemarkTumaloCandance wrote: "I'm a typical white person" (racist?). Go ahead... say it publicly and don't mince words. I bet you'll feel better.
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the
American public." President Theodore Roosevelt
sorry to burst your bubble telemark
December 8, 2008 - 17:40 ET by candanceYour rush to nab a "racist" conservative has shown that you have no idea where my tag line came from.
Go ask Obama what he meant about his grandmother being a typical white person specifically because she was racist. Painting an entire group of people with a broad brush based on their skin color sounds a lot like racism to me.
I'm a typical white person.
"The failure of American
December 7, 2008 - 18:12 ET by Chris Norman"The failure of American media to properly vet the political beliefs of Barack Obama during the just concluded presidential campaign..."
Noel, I know you have to be careful and conservative in your characterizations, but as non-professionals, can the rest of us just go ahead and say that most of the media was actively and deliberately obscuring the political beliefs of Obama to get him elected?
What a powderpuff interview!!!
December 7, 2008 - 18:45 ET by jondelwicheThis is why the Republic is failing.
There just isnt any desire to question Dem leaders like they grill
Repubs, esp now after Reussert's death.
This is why Fannie debacles happen: No media oversight i.e.
in 2004 when Fannie's first crisis begged for tough coverage on the
Dems.
Today, fine, there is no reason to be rude, but how about some
MILDLY tough questions? i.e.
*Many of your closest circle were at the center of Fannie's
collapse, why should mainstreet have faith in these people?
*You were a regular in church in the run-up to the election, but
no you arent. Will people see hypocrisy?
*{When he was yet again dodging on his smoking}, a simple
"when WAS your last cigarette?" would put him on the spot.
We can then see if Obama is man enough to say "none of your
business."
The media has been AWOL, to all our detriment.
I have to add
December 7, 2008 - 18:49 ET by jondelwicheThe MSM gives Laura Bush a tougher grilling on issues than this
guy gets.
Nice Try
December 7, 2008 - 19:16 ET by TelemarkTumaloMr. Shepherd,
Nice try at twisting a sentence out of context to suit your politics. This is not a media twist on facts, it is yours. Mr. Obama stated that greed was not good for Americans in general. There is no argument to that unless you consider the S&L scandal of the 90's and the current mess in the banking industry to be good for America. Or, do you consider our current economic plight good for America? Jobless claims at an all time high and the national debt spiraling out of control. Thanks, President Bush. We will all have to take some responsibility for the mess that we are in, and we will all have to take some responsibility for getting the economy back on track with sound fiscal policies including a balanced budget on the national front and on the home front. We tried it George Bush's way for the last 8 years and come Jan. 20th, we will try it Barack Obama's way for at least 4 years. You can spend that time criticizing the man, his policies and his stated goals, or you can work in your community to make sure that your local elected officials are doing their part. If enough of us take responsibility, then maybe we can get this thing going again.
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the
American public." President Theodore Roosevelt
Nice try, blame the man in the office
December 7, 2008 - 19:31 ET by FastEdBUT, the financial prob goes back to the Carter years, pushed further into the abyss by Clinton, and when someone tried to put an end to it, (Bush), then the demolibs, who were in charge of purse strings, said NO, loudly and often. Then, the people who made the mess happen, are going to be running the show - how is that going to help things?
The thing is, we couldn't try it Bush's way, the demolibs kept getting the way, so to now blame him for the mess is not being honest.
Greed - nice word, but how come all those who have complained that tax cuts were bad, (cut to the very people who were taxed the most), why haven't they stepped up and "plegged" MORE tax money? Could it be that the loudest, most liberal, (like the hollywood crowd) liked the money they had but didn't want to share?
Does anyone remember when the tax cuts were enacted, people complained they were getting a little something-something a month - what will they say, when that something-something is taken back, in say 2 years, when the tax cuts "end" - that something-something, is gonna be a big deal, but probably greed will be the reason.
There is no sense in being stupid, if you can't prove it! - my dad V
Why do so many foolhearty
December 7, 2008 - 20:53 ET by SmartypantsWhy do so many foolhearty people insist on rewriting the last eight years as if it has all been miserable? Of course, I know the answer to this. It is politically expedient; either that, or it is just based on ignorance.
The economy, up until about a year go, was humming along just fine. Even after 9/11, when so many "experts" thought we were in for a long recession, or worse, the economy was back on track within a few months of the dreadful attacks. The markets survived the corporate scandals of Enron and WorldCom (which thrived under President Clinton) amazingly once the Bush Administration took action to punish the wrongdoers and enact legislation which restored confidence. For most of the 2000's, the economic data has been better than the average of the last three decades! This is even after 9/11, Katrina and the corporate scandals. Now, a liberal boondoggle, forcing lenders to grant loans to those who cannot repay, sets the economy on its back--and it's all Bush's fault. This is such a childish view of reality that it does not deserve attention. The problem is that too many people like you actually believe it. Bush's tax policy helped save the economy when it could have gone bust seven years ago. It has actually put thousands of dollars extra in the pockets of average Americans every year.
Telemark, you don't know what the hell you are talking about, period. Learn a little something about economics and civics before you spout off on who is at fault for the current financial crisis.
Statement of the Facts
December 8, 2008 - 01:04 ET by TelemarkTumaloSure, the economy has been humming along just fine for the past 8 years. Yep, the Stock Market is in great shape... sure! And, home prices? Couldn't be better! Unemployment.... a thing of the past. The financial industry... Awesome! National debt? Never been this low. The Budget Deficit? C'mon, we've got ourselves a conservative in the White House. Conservatives know how to pay as they go! Consumer confidence? Retailers are overwhelmed with sales.
Now really Mr. Smartypants, you have to be joking or smoking crack OR you are a blind eyed dyed in the wool conservative who can't admit that one of his own has screwed the pooch. This economy is in a shambles... some of it directly due to the policies of the current administration. Admittedly, most of it is not. The global market forces have been working overtime to correct an overzealous rize in international markets, and domestically, home prices had to correct at some point. As Jack Bogle says, "no tree grows to the sky"! But, the Bush administration has worked overtime to turn a blind eye to what has been happening in the financial markets over it's tenure. If they couldn't see what was happening, they were asleep at the switch and deserve blame for incompetence. If they knew what was happening, they deserve to be punished for allowing the lending industry to be corrupted by greed. Either way, the Bush financial policies have clearly failed. Our country is in the worst financial situation it has seen since the Great Depression. Most Americans can see and know the truth. President Bush's (poor) popularity is a good measure of the grade he would receive by any sober economist... about 24%.
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the
American public." President Theodore Roosevelt
Eight years???
December 8, 2008 - 01:47 ET by RESTLESS 1I think you mean the past two. Guess who was elected to congress then.
Well, I had links showing your assertions untrue, but when you click on them, the said that the data was unavailable. Dammit.
Anyway, after 9/11, the economy tanked for a surprisingly short time considering. It did fine, despite the msm talking it down, until 2006 or so. Jobs were being created, earnings were going up, and unemployment was going down. Reid and pelosi put an end to that.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
You are a brilliant
December 8, 2008 - 02:18 ET by Dan The Man 2You are a brilliant economist. Just like the ones who ran Enron. I love your facts and conclusions. I suppose you were among those who believed Iraq was a failed war?
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
Greed is Good!
December 8, 2008 - 12:32 ET by PopularTechGreed (1/3) (Video) (12min) (John Stossel, ABC News)
Greed (2/3) (Video) (13min) (John Stossel, ABC News)
Greed (3/3) (Video) (14min) (John Stossel, ABC News)
Greed is good (John Stossel, Townhall)
The Virtue of Greed (Walter E. Williams, Ph.D. Professor of Economics)
Yes Bush is responsible for the deficit but that is a separate issue.
How Big Is Bush's Big Government? (Mark Brandly, Ph.D. Professor of Economics)
Censored Global Warming Videos
Please define for us Mr Senator...
December 7, 2008 - 19:43 ET by JPR1Just what constitutes "doing well". What are the metrics? Who gets to draw the line where someone is doing too well?
Brown nose Brokaw should have asked this. But noooo.
a friendly tip
December 7, 2008 - 20:17 ET by criticalthinkingI know folks on the right get infuriated when people call them stupid, so i wont call anyone stupid, but just as a friendly heads up, for all the people throwing around the term facist, facism is universally recognized as a movement of the extreme right wing, and facist such as Mussulini, Franco, and Hitler viewed themselves as such, and as the natural enemies of communism. Should you wish to not look stupid in later conversations, i humbly reccomend that you note this point - cheers!
A friendly tip for you criticalthinking
December 7, 2008 - 20:41 ET by cocodrieThe definition of fascist is:
One that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation and forcible suppression of opposition.
That sounds like a left-wing extremist democrat to me.
Should you wish to not look stupid in later conversations, I humbly recommend that you note this point - cheers!
Who is Looking Stupid, Critical?
December 7, 2008 - 20:44 ET by SmartypantsMerriam-Webster defines fascism as follows: "A political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition."
Liberals exalt race, class, and group status above that of individuals. True conservatives are all about individuality. It was rugged individuality that helped build the United States into a world power. Liberals, like Obama, want more centralized control over all aspects of our lives--the economy, healthcare, environmental management, etc. Conservatives want private enterprise to manage themselves and feel that we all benefit when individuals and private businesses do what is best for their own operations. "Severe economic regimentation" is far more of a left wing philosophy.
critical thinking, I hope you were joking in your post. Fascism is indeed more indicative of a left wing philosophy. Hitler was an anti-religious fanatic who bought into all sorts of left wing principles, from animal rights to extreme environmentalism. He believed in the power of central government and classified individuals by the groups they belonged to (race, religion, etc.) more than anyone in modern history. The idea that his regime represented a far right philosophy is one that was created by liberals in the modern media, who do not believe it is possible to be too left wing.
cheers!
Looking stupid...
December 7, 2008 - 20:55 ET by JPR1Go here and here.
Read carefuly, then think. Nothing about extreme "right wing" movements.
The Nazi party was Socialist
December 8, 2008 - 12:35 ET by PopularTechNazism - National Socialism (German: Nationalsozialismus)
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Could Obamanomics lead to
December 7, 2008 - 20:50 ET by Clear thinkerCould Obamanomics lead to this... New North American Currency?
Making Fun of AGW http://giovanniworld.wordpress.com/
i appreciate the response
December 7, 2008 - 21:00 ET by criticalthinkingand obvisouly it is an interesting conversation that could be debated for hours. However, I would add that facists came to power often defeating what were known as leftist, liberal, or perhaps constitutional regimes. Franco, for example, defeated the left leaning second Spanish republic. Hitler rose to power following frustrations with the lefter leaning Weimar Republic. Even moving on from Pre WWII, history views Pinochet as a right wing facist who acted in direct contrast to a left leaning government.
again, i am a republican. the point here is just to get history straight. Stalin, castro, or, more generally, communism, these are examples of the far left achieving power, and the negative consequences. Pinochet, Franco, ect., these are examples of the far right achieving power, and how that doesnt work so well either.
Finaly, in response to purity of race, race first, nature of facism, i submit that on this site, i routinly see refrences to Obama as a Kenyan, or as Hussein, of as Osama Obama...these remarks all seem to me to suggest that obama is in some way not of the pure race, or not of the "american race." I see similar issues in the remakrs left on posts concerning illegal immigration. And the thing is, i generally I agree with yall, i just wish we could keep the debate on issues
again, i am a republican -
December 8, 2008 - 02:25 ET by Dan The Man 2again, i am a republican - and I am President elect of the USA. Looked at your posts and at very best you are RINO.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
Obama's already taxing the rich into extinction
December 7, 2008 - 21:07 ET by desertdwellerJust look at the stock markets.
Obama may want to redistribute the wealth, but at the rate the market's going, there won't be any wealth to redistribute.
And THAT is the ultimate failing of socialism.
desertd... Keep in mind
December 7, 2008 - 21:11 ET by Clear thinkerdesertd...
Keep in mind these words whenever you talk about Obama and the economy...
"THE WAY OF COMMUNISM IS PEASENTRY"
New North American Currency?
Making Fun of AGW http://giovanniworld.wordpress.com/
Im gonna go a different
December 7, 2008 - 21:54 ET by MrSnugglesIm gonna go a different direction and agree with Obama, the whole "whats in it for me" thing is bad for everyone. Like when people clamor for social programs and demand "whats in it for me?", its bad for everyone. When people demand tax increases on the rich and ask "whats in it for me?" its bad for everyone.
When people simply shut up, work hard, and spend wisely, ITS GOOD FOR EVERYBODY.
Does Soros know?
December 7, 2008 - 22:11 ET by bpjamHas The Messiah convinced George Soros that his own personal financial gain is less important than the strength of the US $ and the stability of the American Economy??
I'm guessing nobody has told Soros about this new ideology. And that the book deals for Jeremiah Wright and William Ayers won't be subject to this new altruism.
Hold on Noel... If Obama
December 7, 2008 - 22:34 ET by JerHold on Noel...
If Obama had actually said that working for your own financial benefit is not good for anybody, it would certainly be a troubling statement, and perhaps even justify some of the more feverish accusations of socialism and Marxism which have dotted this thread.
But of course that is not what he said as is clearly revealed by the transcript and video exerpts which you have kindly provided. Obama's admonishments about "greed" and the "what's in it for me" mentality--and his implicit corollary that the relative financial viability of all classes [i.e. more jobs, more consumers, more spending and saving] ensures a stronger national economy--while not exactly an endorsement of unfettered free markets hardly seem hallmarks of radical economics.
Whether it be unions demanding contractual terms which cripple competition within an industry, or the foreign outsourcing of jobs by manufacturers, or a hundred million dollar executive compensation packages, or profligate and unregulated lending practices, or unscrupulous Wall Street traders and market manipulators, "greed" ain't necessarily "good".
Thus far it seems to me that Obama has exhibited a decidedly pragmatic streak. Last week I heard him speak directly to Republican governors and ask them to please advise his administration from time to time of their ideas and programs which had proved successful in their states and which might have national efficacy. He promised he would give them a fair hearing. I believe he will.
Jer
Jer
December 7, 2008 - 23:39 ET by Noel SheppardJer,
Okay. So explain the difference between "working for your own financial benefit" and viewing things from the perspective of "what's in it for me"?
I'm dying to hear this. ns
Not to mention that this was
December 8, 2008 - 01:10 ET by MrSnugglesNot to mention that this was in response to Joe Biden's "its patriotic to pay a high tax rate!" nonsense. Clearly Obama is a communist, and slowly but surely the things he says are revealing this truth in a blinding way.
Noel... I think the
December 8, 2008 - 02:06 ET by JerNoel...
I think the overwhelming majority of Americans work for their financial benefit and for the financial security of their families--an eminently natural, healthy, and appropriate objective. That is qualitatively different from an unbending adherence to a "what's in it for me" philosophy--such as is frequently exhibited by breathtakingly selfish executives who cash out for millions as their company teeters on the brink of insolvency.
Just a side note: I don't know if you saw The McLaughlin Report Sunday morning. I recorded it and watched it a few minutes ago. There were four conservative or conservative-leaning panelists [counting John McLaughlin] plus the liberal Eleanor Clift. They unanimously agreed that to date Obama as President-elect has clearly been a pragmatist as opposed to an ideologue, and they all gave him A's and B's in grading his economic and national security teams.
Jer
Jer
December 8, 2008 - 02:17 ET by Noel SheppardJer,
Well, you said they were different, but not how? How is working for your own financial benefit different than adhering to a "what's in it for me" philosophy? Saying that it's "qualitatively different" isn't an answer. All you did was add an adjective to your previous point. Care to elaborate a little more than "qualitatively"?
Please bear in mind that Brokaw's question was about raising taxes on people that make $250k or more. It wasn't about CEOs. Doesn't his answer suggest that all people who make over $250k are greedy?
As for McLaughlin, he typically has four guests -- two libs, two cons. Regardless, it's taped on Friday BEFORE Obama's interview was aired this morning. So, what does this have to do with our discussion?
BTW: I give him A's and B's for these teams as well. Still doesn't have anything to do with what he said on MTP this morning. ns
Noel...I tried to give
December 8, 2008 - 03:00 ET by JerNoel...
I tried to give some common, credible examples illustrating what I believe is the essential difference between a deleterious"greedy, what's in it for me" philosophy compared to the normal, laudable objective of "working for one's own financial benefit". I don't know what else to say. You apparently believe there is at most a negligible semantical distinction. I think otherwise.
As for McLaughlin, he typically has four guests -- two libs, two cons. Regardless, it's taped on Friday BEFORE Obama's interview was aired this morning. So, what does this have to do with our discussion?
I know it's generally 2 & 2, but not this time. It was McLaughlin, Monica Crowley, Mort Zuckerman, William Steele [in line to head the RNC] vs. Clift. What does it have to do with our discussion? I said it was a side note. But I had mentioned Obama's pragmatism in my post in response to the countless accusations in this and other threads that he is a Marxist/communist/socialist ideologue. My point was that there are even some conservative Republicans who believe otherwise--at least based on the evidence thus far.
Jer
I tried to give some
December 8, 2008 - 04:38 ET by Dan The Man 2I tried to give some common, credible examples - COMMON AND CREDIBLE FOR WHO? Yes there are examples and these are because the company and laws allow this behavior? The examples you give are few, from what I understand Obama wants to include teh little guy like me and you.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
COMMON AND CREDIBLE FOR
December 8, 2008 - 08:17 ET by JerCOMMON AND CREDIBLE FOR WHO?
Well, for you, Noel, and anyone else who would care to consider them, Dan. And you are certainly free to add to the list. It was not intended to be exhaustive.
There is behavior that is legal, but highly unethical, and there is also behavior that is highly illegal. With respect to the latter, there are a number of corporate officers who could enlighten you regarding the nature and consequences of said behavior. You can contact them in the federal prison system.
Jer
Jer
December 8, 2008 - 11:06 ET by Noel SheppardJer,
There is behavior that is legal, but highly unethical, and there is also behavior that is highly illegal. With respect to the latter, there are a number of corporate officers who could enlighten you regarding the nature and consequences of said behavior. You can contact them in the federal prison system.
But this is irrelevant and had NOTHING to do with what Obama was asked. You're bringing a totally extraneous strawman into the discussion just as the messiah did. The question asked was about raising taxes on people who make $250k or more. Do you think EVERYONE in our country that makes more than $250k is doing so illegally and/or immorally?
Honestly, the class envy on display here, Jer, is quite telling. You probably have exhibited most of the same behaviors as most of the folks on top of the income ladder, but because they're more successful, they most be doing something illegal or immoral. And frankly, this defines liberalism: everybody doing financially better than me most either be breaking the law or doing something unethical, and therefore should be punished with higher taxes.
Sheesh. ns
Noel...
December 8, 2008 - 17:04 ET by JerThe question asked was about raising taxes on people who make $250k or more. Do you think EVERYONE in our country that makes more than $250k is doing so illegally and/or immorally?
Noel...You should by now be well aware of my respect for your intelligence--especially in matters of finance and monetary policy. But, really...the question is such nonsense on stilts that I am reluctant to dignify it with a direct response. But I will: OF COURSE NOT!
Honestly, the class envy on display here, Jer, is quite telling.
Envy displayed by whom? Me? Obama? Both of us? That's absurd. Was it envy of the working class when I criticized overreaching by unions [as an example of "greed"]?
And frankly, this defines liberalism: everybody doing financially better than me most either be breaking the law or doing something unethical, and therefore should be punished with higher taxes.
This is your encapsulating definition of liberalism? Double sheesh.
Jer
Jer
December 8, 2008 - 17:49 ET by Noel SheppardJer,
Double sheesh? Well, there it is. :-) ns
Noel...
December 8, 2008 - 17:55 ET by JerI had to reach down deep for that one. :-)
Jer
Jer
December 8, 2008 - 10:39 ET by Noel SheppardJer,
I tried to give some common, credible examples illustrating what I believe is the essential difference between a deleterious"greedy, what's in it for me" philosophy compared to the normal, laudable objective of "working for one's own financial benefit".
Where? Your answer to my question was: "I think the overwhelming majority of Americans work for their financial benefit and for the financial security of their families--an eminently natural, healthy, and appropriate objective. That is qualitatively different from an unbending adherence to a "what's in it for me" philosophy--such as is frequently exhibited by breathtakingly selfish executives who cash out for millions as their company teeters on the brink of insolvency."
Where are the examples? You rendered an opinion without any specificity or support. Great. It's your opinion that following a philosophy of "what's in it for me" and working for your own financial benefit are different, but you in no way demonstrated how. Sorry.
And, once again, I don't disagree with what the folks on "The Group" said last Friday, but don't believe it has ANY relevance whatsoever to what Obama said Sunday. How could they comment on what Obama said BEFORE he said it?
Did McLaughlin ask these guests if they felt Obama was interested in redistributing wealth and/or has socialist tendencies?
Honestly, Jer, you entered this thread stating that I misinterpreted what Obama said yesterday, but still haven't been able to support it beyond it being your opinion.
Let me make this clearer: have you ever negotiated for a raise, bonus, or higher salary from a potential new employer? Also, have you ever haggled over price with a store representative, or tried to get a higher interest rate at a bank than what they're posting? ns
Jer, please answer these questions on Greed
December 8, 2008 - 12:41 ET by PopularTech1. When does something become "greedy"?
2. How is this determined?
3. Who determines this?
4. Should the government define what is "greedy"?
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PT
December 8, 2008 - 13:15 ET by Noel SheppardPT,
Excellent questions. After all, one person's greed is another person's ambition. And, ambition or lack thereof is what separates the haves from the have nots in our country.
As someone who has managed people for over 20 years, I have seen firsthand why some people are more successful than others. The unsuccessful point fingers at the successful as being greedy. That's their perception.
However, the truth is that in all of the companies I've managed and/or owned, the more successful employees work longer, harder, and smarter because they wanted more for themselves and their families. These are the folks that are also willing to go back to school for additional training and or accreditation in order to move themselves up the ladder of success. I believe this can be said for the VAST MAJORITY of folks in the upper-income bracket of our nation with FEW exceptions.
Sadly, what the left always does is use this kind of a financial crisis -- wherein a small percentage, either due to excessive greed and/or stupidity, made some pathetic decisions -- as an indictment of the entire capitalist system. We saw it after the '87 crash, after the 2000 dot-com collapse, and now again.
In the end, there is much we can learn about human behavior as well as capitalism when these collapses occur. BUT, to use it as a means of blaming ALL the MOST successful members of the society is just a recurrence of the class envy that is a mainstay of the American left. JMHO. ns
Jealousy leads to "Greed"
December 8, 2008 - 17:04 ET by PopularTechI agree, defining greed is purely subjective. You have people who are jealous of those who are successful and label their success as greed.
I am just so tired of the class warfare argument. I don't care what someone else earned legally, I just want what I earned without the IRS taking it all. Funny how if the same people complaining took the time to really learn from those they label "greedy" they might find they could be successful too but then again it is easier for them to vote for someone like Obama who promises to just give them things they do not deserve.
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→ Me too PT
December 8, 2008 - 17:19 ET by Cool ArrowThe neighbors have a new Ford F-350.
If I were the jealous type, I'd be out there buying a bigger, better one, not because I need it, but because I need to prove something.
Used car lots are full of great bargains right now. I'm just not in the market because I'm not easily influenced by the contrived "needs" of others.
Pop Tech...Nos. 1,2, and
December 8, 2008 - 16:38 ET by JerPop Tech...
Nos. 1,2, and 3. I would answer these in a way similar to Justice Potter Stewart's views regarding "pornography" which he expressed as follows: "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it."
4. When "greed" leads to unlawful predatory practices, insider trading, stock manipulation, securities fraud, etc. the government can and has defined the parameters of such activity and imposed appropriate sanctions. Likewise, the example of union overreaching which I cited in my initial post may not be unlawful but it can have negative consequences for the national economy.
Jer
Thank you for proving my point
December 8, 2008 - 16:55 ET by PopularTech1,2,3. Since you cannot answer my questions, you have just proven my point.
4. You are like everyone else who brings it up confusing fraud with Greed.
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Wrong, Pop Tech
December 8, 2008 - 17:20 ET by Jer1,2,3. Since you cannot answer my questions, you have just proven my point.
Wrong. You asked amorphous questions to which I responded. You made no point to be proved or disproved. If you want a definition of "greed", look it up.
You are like everyone else who brings it up confusing fraud with Greed.
And you are simply confused. I didn't equate fraud with greed. However, I do assert that fraud is one of the potential consequences of greed.
Jer
You didn't answer any of the questions on Greed
December 9, 2008 - 12:56 ET by PopularTechYou instead gave an irrelevant quote. Now please answer the questions. I did not ask for a definition of greed, try reading the questions I asked and please respond to each one. If you are unable to then yes you have proven my point.
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Sorry, Pop...
December 9, 2008 - 19:55 ET by Jerbut this isn't a courtroom or a quiz show, and you're neither a prosecutor nor Monty Hall. If you want to prove a point, then state a proposition and support it.
This little exercise is, well, pointless...and boring, too. Plus, your questions were poorly framed.
Jer
→ Not bad, Jer
December 8, 2008 - 17:00 ET by Cool ArrowIs it scrupulous to open up credit markets to individuals who have neither credit nor collateral?
I agree with you. Jimmy Carter, Chris Dodd, and Barney Frank, were complicit in setting up America's financial system for failure.
Redlining was a fool's bargain for which we will be paying years from now.
Looks like the Dems win again.
Cool Arrow...
December 8, 2008 - 17:41 ET by JerIs it scrupulous to open up credit markets to individuals who have neither credit nor collateral?
It was bad policy and bad business. And it was unscrupulous the way the loans were marketed and resold as if they were documented.
I agree with you. Jimmy Carter, Chris Dodd, and Barney Frank, were complicit in setting up America's financial system for failure.
Yes...and complicit with many Republicans, Wall Street, mortgage bankers, Phil Gramm, and even George W. Bush
Redlining was a fool's bargain for which we will be paying years from now.
Agreed.
Looks like the Dems win again.
They did this time. We'll see what happens. If they engineer the calamity most here predict, they'll get the boot. [Btw, the Repubs in recent history have done okay electorally. This is only the third Dem president in 40 years, and the GOP has controlled Congress for most of the past two decades.]
Jer
Jer
December 8, 2008 - 17:55 ET by Noel SheppardJer,
Yes...and complicit with many Republicans, Wall Street, mortgage bankers, Phil Gramm, and even George W. Bush
If you're going to bring up Phil Gramm, shouldn't you also mention Bill Clinton who signed -- and all the Democrats who voted for -- the bills you likely blame on Gramm? After all, none of the current problem would exist without the passage of the Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999 and the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000, correct?
Now, assuming you agree -- and, if you don't please refute my assertion -- please tell me what pieces of legislation were signed into law by Bush 43 which have anything to do with the current financial services industry crisis.
Please? Pretty please? With sugar on top? :-) ns
Noel...
December 9, 2008 - 00:07 ET by Jer...please tell me what pieces of legislation were signed into law by Bush 43 which have anything to do with the current financial services industry crisis.
Please? Pretty please? With sugar on top?
Okay, but only because you asked so nicely.
As reported by Niall Ferguson in this month's Vanity Fair, in a very thorough and even-handed article, President Bush had proclaimed in October of 2002 that "we want everyone to own their own home" and challenged lenders to create 5.5 million new minority homeowners by the end of the decade. Bush later signed the American Dream Downpayment Act in 2003, "a measure designed to subsidize first-time house purchases in low-income groups. Between 2000 and 2006 the share of undocumented subprime contracts rose from 17 to 44 per cent."
As you are well aware, the Republicans enjoyed total control of the federal government in that period of time. Nevertheless, I think there is clearly bipartisan culpability for this crisis. It seems, however, that quite a few here can only mention Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Carter and Clinton [surprise! they're all Democrats], and can't bring themselves to include anyone who may happen to be a Republican.
Jer
Jer
December 9, 2008 - 00:25 ET by Noel SheppardJer,
Oh really? So you think the American Dream Downpayment Act in 2003 is responsible for the current financial crisis? Do you even know what it is? Let me elaborate WITH A LINK:
You think this helped cause the crisis, Jer? C'mon. Would you be against this act if you actually knew what it was about?
Let's be honest: some guy in Vanity Fair wrote an article blaming Bush for the current crisis, and you didn't do the slightest research to find out what he was talking about. Right?
The reality is that this was quite an astonishing program designed to help low income and minority Americans purchase a home, and because you hate Bush, you're disgustingly throwing it in his face.
Tell me I'm wrong.
More important, you should learn from this: DON'T TAKE THE WORD OF MEDIA MEMBERS ALL BECAUSE WHAT THEY WRITE SUPPORTS YOUR POINT OF VIEW.
Always do research on your own, my friend.
ns
P.S. It took me ten seconds to find the text of this act, Jer. Might I suggest in the future that before you castigate a politician for supporting something you know nothing about you actually take the time to find out what he or she actually supported. Anything less and you're behaving like the sheep you and I have little respect for.
Noel...
December 9, 2008 - 01:47 ET by JerYou think this helped cause the crisis, Jer? C'mon. Would you be against this act if you actually knew what it was about?
I think there are myriad reasons for this crisis, Noel. And this legislation standing alone is indeed admirable in its stated purpose. But coupled with Bush's statements, it had the effect of contributing to the psychology of glorifying universal home ownership. Sub-prime lending if properly administered and regulated would arguably not have been a triggering mechanism for the melt-down in the housing market. Unfortunately, many things came together to create a perfect storm producing a profound financial catastrophe.
Let's be honest: some guy in Vanity Fair wrote an article blaming Bush for the current crisis, and you didn't do the slightest research to find out what he was talking about. Right?
Only partially right. True, I didn't research the Act prior to my post. But you are wrong in your initial assumption about some guy blaming Bush for the current crisis. That couldn't be further from the truth. Why don't you read the article before jumping to erroneous conclusions.
The reality is that this was quite an astonishing program designed to help low income and minority Americans purchase a home, and because you hate Bush, you're disgustingly throwing it in his face.
Your charge is not only untrue but a surprising and insulting cheap shot. I have posted many times here of my of my genuine admiration for George Bush, Laura, his dad, and the entire Bush family. I have noted his achievements and explained my policy disagreements, and I have consistently praised his character and integrity. Perhaps you shoud do a little research before making baseless accusations.
Tell me I'm wrong.
Consider it done.
Always do research on your own, my friend.
I spend a lot of time doing precisely that, but thanks for the advice.
Jer
Jer,
December 9, 2008 - 01:52 ET by RESTLESS 1"Sub-prime lending if properly administered and regulated would arguably
not have been a triggering mechanism for the melt-down in the housing
market."
I don't think that sub-prime lending is a good idea in best case scenarios, but I have to ask, just who was it that stood in the way of regulation in this market in, oh...say 2005?
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
Restless...
December 9, 2008 - 02:28 ET by Jerbut I have to ask, just who was it that stood in the way of regulation in this market in, oh...say 2005?
Well, at the risk of being hammered again for allegedly insufficient research, I'll hazard a guess that Democrats Barney Frank and Chris Dodd were two of the leading obstructionists. That said, I suspect there were also plenty of Republicans whose hands were not exactly squeaky clean. I say this because 1.) too many traditionally Republican constituencies were making millions as a result of the practice, 2.) Republicans are historically and philosophically anti-regulation and 3.) as I mentioned earlier, the GOP was in control of all branches of government in 2005 as well as for most of the Bush administration. Presumably, they could have enacted corrective legislation if they so desired.
Jer
Jer
December 9, 2008 - 11:21 ET by Noel SheppardJer,
Name the Republicans on the Senate Banking Committee that voted against this Hagel-Sununu-Dole bill. Just name one. AND, name one Democrat that voted for it. Just one.
Then, explain to the class how a filibuster works, and what happens if the party in power in the Senate doesn't have enough minority support for a bill to pass a filibuster
We'll wait for your civics explanation on this matter. ns
Jer
December 9, 2008 - 11:04 ET by Noel SheppardJer,
Have it your way. It's all George Bush's fault.
His desire to increase American homeownership -- gee, he must be the FIRST president to do that!!! -- and the up to $200 million per year for the ADDI program -- Yes, MILLION with an M!!! -- was what precipitated all of this. It had NOTHING to do with the legislation that removed the last vestiges of Glass Steagall OR the legislation that eliminated any oversight or regulation over derivatives associated with lending and debt securitization which led to the creation of potentially $100 trillion -- Yes, TRILLION with a T!!! -- of completely unregulated and intrinsically WORTHLESS credit default swaps.
Nah. That's irrelevant. $200 million trumps $100 trillion. You're right. All George Bush's fault.
And, despite sending his Treasury Secretary to Capitol Hill on September 11, 2003, to ask Congress to create a new agency and rules to regulate and oversee GSEs, and Republicans immediately trying to do so without any Democrat support, its failure is HIS fault.
Yep. All George Bush's fault, despite having NO Democrat support -- not one -- in the Senate banking committee thereby making it impossible to pass a filibuster. IMPOSSIBLE.
Yep. His fault.
You win, Jer -- I completely agree with you. Everything else that happened before, during, and after this $200 million a year program was created is quite secondary to the current financial services and housing crisis. The fact that a president wanted to encourage homeownership, and was willing to put a whopping $200 million a year of government funds towards that goal -- of course, coming near the end of the boom, but why bring that up now? -- is the REAL culprit.
Thank you for straightening me out. :-) ns
Noel...
December 9, 2008 - 18:29 ET by JerSince I have been responding to a fusilade of questions from you (and others), how about answering one for me?
How does an expression of my belief that there is "bipartisan culpability for this crisis" [per my response to you at 23:07 Dec. 8] translate to "it's all George Bush's fault"?
Jer
Jer
December 9, 2008 - 19:01 ET by Noel SheppardJer,
Alcohol. :-) ns
welcome back Jer
December 8, 2008 - 11:02 ET by candanceWe've missed you around these parts. :D
That said, I disagree with your post and shall engage you thusly...
Obama's admonishments about "greed" and the "what's in it for me" mentality--and his implicit corollary that the relative financial viability of all classes [i.e. more jobs, more consumers, more spending and saving] ensures a stronger national economy--while not exactly an endorsement of unfettered free markets hardly seem hallmarks of radical economics.
The best way to have financial viability in all classes is to give business owners the freedom and capital to hire as many people as they can. It's a very simple concept really. We tried the New Deal in the 30s and it didn't work - then we tried Reaganomics in the 80s and it worked just fine.
or a hundred million dollar executive compensation packages
So what do you deem acceptable for executives to make? 90 million? 50 million? Obama and Brokaw clearly believe that making 250k is greedy. Don't just throw out extreme cases to justify the government imposing punishments on greed.
or the foreign outsourcing of jobs by manufacturers
Why of course, because if Hanes paid all their employees ten bucks an hour, working class families would still be able to buy clothing for a few dollars at Wal Mart.
unscrupulous Wall Street traders and market manipulators
You mean like the Enron executives who are currently in prison? Or do you mean the lawyers who sued Countrywide into giving mortgages to unqualified minorities? Oops, that's what Obama did in Chicago. Pragmatism in action.
Last week I heard him speak directly to Republican governors and ask them to please advise his administration from time to time
Oh of course there's no way he did this as a publicity stunt and has no real intention of taking them seriously. Get back to me in four years and we'll talk about how many Republican ideas he has actually used.
I'm a typical white person.
Thanks, candance...I've
December 9, 2008 - 00:13 ET by JerThanks, candance...I've missed you, too, as well as the rest of the NBer's.
I'm not intentionally ignoring your insightful comments and questions. I'll respond ASAP.
Jer
"December 7, 2008 - 14:58 ET
December 7, 2008 - 22:39 ET by RR GOP"December 7, 2008 - 14:58 ET by motherbelt
That's how liberals' egotistical thinking always works: they can make
failed ideas work because this time the "right" people with the "right"
intentions will be doing it! They have the same idea about nationalized
health care."
Very well said, indeed. They're convinced that given just a liiiiiiiitle more time running things it's bound to work.
Since we're talking about self-reliance, you folks who criticize public schoos at every turn-look, kids do better being home schooled, not because they are home schooled but because they have parents who have high expectations and expect them to learn in the first place. Many, many kids do extremely well in public schools, so don't throw out the baby with the bath water. A student gets out of their education exactly what they choose to put into it, just like everything else in life.
As for Sir Obama...I agree that if everyone does better economically we all benefit. Everyone would agree with that. But, you can't force success on people anymore than you can confer an education, success, happiness, whatever on people. It has to come from within and Socialism fosters laziness. Read about the Soviet Union and how workers would goof off most of the month and then put the pedal to the metal at the end in order to make their production quotas.
So, I agree with most here. Typical Socialist wisdom is that you can't possibly bring everybody up, so you bring everybody down to an even socio-economic level.
One of the 24% who thinks George W. Bush was a great President. One of the 89% who wants to bring back the stock and pillory.
Obama is...
December 7, 2008 - 22:43 ET by jackie3The perfect salesman. His statements are designed to appeal across the divide in general and attempt to spark some patriotic feelings. But, when you look closely you see how 2 faced he truly is. The news doesn't question him; will not question him. They are told to only ask certain questions and that's it.
How has Obama's messages changed since his election? Has he really disclosed a economic plan? The speeches he has done is an extension of his campaign speeches. Lost of air but no real substance.
His web site is constantly changing things. His contradicts himself from speech to speech but one thing remains the same. He--Obama--is constantly changing. He's a chameleon. He must present his ideals to appeal across an array of people.
When Obama says he is the change he wasn't kidding. He's always changing his words but little else.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
Such a Hypocrite
December 7, 2008 - 23:56 ET by Travis NoodleObama is such a hypocrite! I know this blog is complaining about Brokaw, but what about Obama?
He and Michelle are millionaires and they try to school the American people that financial benefit is selfish. What about the book royalties and purchasing Michelle a $30,000 diamond ring. Disgusting!
Don't school me about financial benefit.
Obama is not my president!!!
IT'S ABOUT CURRENCY
December 8, 2008 - 00:36 ET by PacificGatePostTAKE BACK CONTROL OF MONEY
The American economy rests on the back of the American worker andconsumer. Taxpayers own the government and currency is only a tool enablingcommerce.
Take charge of it. Getit working for you, not against you.
http://pacificgatepost.blogspot.com/2008/12/revising-government-relationship-to.html
Once this is done, the other problems will resolve naturally,including home owners making their mortgage payments.
Maybe I missed something but
December 8, 2008 - 02:24 ET by DelsaI didn"t hear Obama say one thing about the private sector and job creation.
I heard GOVERNMENT make work JOBS.
Until now, Government was not the Boss.
We were!
I run my own business and Obama has NO business telling me who I have to hire or fire. (Like the head of GM)
"What is in it for me" is exactly why I work, why my husband works etcetera.
After all, if there was nothing at the end of my labor, for me, I would not labor.
Obama has NO intention of doing anything except insert himself and his ideology into our lives.
By force if necessary.
Delsa... Remember... "The
December 8, 2008 - 12:32 ET by Clear thinkerDelsa...
Remember... "The way of Communism is Peasentry".
The Left Still Hating Gov. Sarah Palin
Making Fun of AGW http://giovanniworld.wordpress.com/
Noel...don't know if this
December 8, 2008 - 19:03 ET by bigtimerNoel...don't know if this is the correct blog post Hannity was talking about today, but it looks like it, anyway, you were mentioned about this subject around 1:40 this afternoon on his show, plus he said from NBs to-boot.
Thought you may be happy...I know I was tickled.
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
BT
December 8, 2008 - 19:43 ET by Noel SheppardBT,
Thanks! ns