"It’s a children’s show, folks. To think we would be putting sexual innuendo in a children’s show is kind of outlandish." -- spokesman for Itsy Bitsy Entertainment Co., which licenses Teletubby characters in the United States.
Yeah, outlandish. I mean, how could anyone imagine there could be undisclosed gay characters in pop-culture materials for children? That Jerry Falwell, what a Christian conservative crank! We all remember how the MSM rightly unloaded on him when he suggested that the Teletubby Tinky Winky could be a hidden homosexual, because "he is purple, the gay pride color, and his antenna is shaped like a triangle, the gay pride symbol." Not to mention that he carried a purse. What ridiculous speculation!
The New York Times, for example, in an article written shortly after Falwell's death, mocked him as having "spouted off" with his gay Teletubby theory, and CBS derided Falwell's "embarrassing misstep."
What's that? It now turns out that Dumbledore is gay? That guy who was the headmaster at Harry Potter's Hogwarts? Author J.K. Rowling said so herself?
Oh, well, that's different. According to the New York Times:
A gay headmaster at a British boarding school? The idea may not be particularly shocking to the literati or to those who have speculated on the Internet about the sexuality of Albus Dumbledore, master wizard and headmaster of Hogwarts, home to Harry Potter and his mates.
What? We shouldn't be shocked that British boarding school headmasters are gay? Sounds like sexual stereotyping to me. What's next, the Times telling us that we shouldn't be shocked by gay male window designers or figure skaters?
And while Falwell was thoroughly lambasted in the MSM for his suggestion, the Times tells us that Rowlings's revelation inspired "applause."
Somewhere, Jerry Falwell is smiling.
Aside: I don't know what a "guild," an "SSC" or a "PVP" is, though I suspect they're terms related to interactive gaming. But my ignorance didn't prevent me from finding No, Dumbledore, I will not join your Warcraft guild at Ace of Spades hilarious.
—Mark Finkelstein is a NewsBusters contributing editor and host of Right Angle. Contact him at mark@gunhill.net.



"It’s a children’s show, folks. To think we would be putting sexual innuendo in a children’s show is kind of outlandish." -- 









Comments Policy
What does "sexual innuendo"
October 22, 2007 - 13:40 ET by balboaWhat does "sexual innuendo" have to do with Rowling saying Dumbledore is gay? Is there something about the past 5 Harry Potter movies that led you to suspect he was gay? That Rowling was trying to put one over on you?
Bal
October 22, 2007 - 13:44 ET by Airforce_5_ODosn't say it in the books, I don't care.
Now if he was hitting on Harry then we got a problem.
The only thing you should feel when shooting insurgents is the rifle recoil.
Balboa, I'm no Potter
October 22, 2007 - 13:53 ET by Mark FinkelsteinBalboa, I'm no Potter expert, but according to this article there was innuendo: Outing gives Potter passages new meaning
Mark
October 22, 2007 - 15:02 ET by balboaBut why would Falwell be smiling? What does that prove about Teletubbies?
You got him, Balboa. As of
October 22, 2007 - 15:09 ET by Chris NormanYou got him, Balboa. As of right now, this site is history.
What?
October 22, 2007 - 15:11 ET by balboaWhat?
You dig around, picking
October 22, 2007 - 15:15 ET by Chris NormanYou dig around, picking nits. As if somehow you're going to discredit these guys.
It's a valid point: why
October 22, 2007 - 15:21 ET by balboaIt's a valid point: why would Falwell be smiling? I'm not trying to discredit anyone here. I think there are very strong points brought up often.
Come on, don't be so
October 22, 2007 - 15:26 ET by Chris NormanCome on, don't be so literal (if not liberal) you know what Mark was saying.
Which was...what. "A-ha!
October 22, 2007 - 15:35 ET by balboaWhich was...what. "A-ha! There are gay characters in books and movies that haven't disclosed their homosexualtiy to us!"
*facepalm*
October 22, 2007 - 21:58 ET by bretzysdude*facepalm*
balboa - on Falwell
October 22, 2007 - 15:24 ET by Dee BunkThe point is that Falwell was demonized for thinking that artists would create hidden gay characters in Children's programs and this proves that artists will do it. If she would have never told, and Falwell brought this one up, they would have demonized him again as being paranoid and she would have never admitted it.
But did anyone suspect
October 22, 2007 - 15:33 ET by balboaBut did anyone suspect Dumbledore was gay before? Or accuse him as being an "instrument" of spreading the "gay agenda"? Why does it matter?
I personally think she did this as an afterthought, a cheap stunt. It doesn't change anything.
I don't know enough about Harry Potter
October 22, 2007 - 15:44 ET by Dee Bunkto know if it was an afterthought or not, but it doesn't really matter as far as the main point of Mark's blog. It's not about whether you could tell or not; it's that Falwell was demonized and made out to be homophobic and paranoid. The logic was that no one would ever do such a thing. This is an example of someone who did such a thing whether it's before or after doesn't matter. She did it. People do it.
That is the point.
That no one would ever do
October 22, 2007 - 16:13 ET by balboaThat no one would ever do what? Make a character gay without telling us?
"That no one would ever do
October 22, 2007 - 16:26 ET by Indiana Joe"That no one would ever do what? Make a character gay without telling us?"
Yeah, bal, that's it exactly. Didn't you read the opening quote of this thread? I agree it's probably a stunt and an afterthought, but that's not the point.
The last (7th?) Potter book was just published. The fifth movie came out this summer. So now, Rowling is telling us all that she snuck a gay character into a children's book. That's something that Falwell was pilloried for suspecting. As the quote makes plain, the same people who hung Falwell over this topic told us it couldn't happen. Well, now it has. THAT'S the point.
My son is a big Potter fan, and I think this revelation was completely unnecessary. Now, instead of a strong mentor and role model, a sense of .... unseemliness?... has been injected into this central character.
If you don't see what's wrong with the whole thing, and why this thread exists, then I don't know how to explain any further.
But that's what I think is
October 22, 2007 - 16:45 ET by balboaBut that's what I think is so silly. If you're gay, you can't be a strong mentor or role model? Suddenly you're unseemly?
I think it's dumb, as I said, to suddenly say "Oh btw, Dumbledore's gay." But should that change how you feel about the character for the worse? I don't see why. Are people actually afraid of liking and admiring a character and suddenly finding out that character's gay? Was Falwell afraid he liked Wile E. Coyote just a bit too much?
No, bal, I'm not afraid
October 22, 2007 - 17:12 ET by Indiana Joeof a gay character. In fact, that's the reason I object to the term "homophobe" to describe all people who don't agree that the gay life-style is good and wholesome.
What I'm concerned about is my 10 year-old son and how HE would feel about this.
And the flip-flop, bal, what about that? Falwell was evil and stupid for thinking a children's character might be secretly gay, the MSM assured us that didn't happen, but now it has. No nose for the hypocrisy, the double-standard in this story? Do you still really not get that angle?
Hey, try this on: what if the setting was a Catholic prep school, and the head priest was gay? Would that matter to you? Would it at least be "unseemly?" Are you one of those people who are only bothered by the idea of gay pedophilia if the perpetrator is a Catholic priest? Or who believe the only gay pedophiles out there are priests?
Dumbledore's sexuality is not germane to any of the stories. In normal, day-to-day life, NO ONE'S sexuality matters to me. I just resent having this PC "I'm okay, you're okay" crap rammed down my throat, snuck in the back door, or slipped to my son without my knowledge or consent.
Yeah, I'm a bit heated about this. And just for the record, I know gay people, I see them all the time, I'm related to some, and I don't care! It truly doesn't matter to me. BUT, these people DO NOT throw their sexual orientation in my face, and I return the favor. It's simply not an issue, shouldn't be an issue. Not saying people should stay in "the closet," just that I don't think of myself as "Joe the heterosexual," and see no reason other people should define themselves by their orientation.
Damn, look at this post... long-winded IJ is back, lol.
What I'm concerned about is
October 22, 2007 - 18:36 ET by balboaWhat I'm concerned about is my 10 year-old son and how HE would feel about this.
Why?
And the flip-flop, bal, what about that?
Wasn't Falwell concerned that the Teletubby was secretly indoctrinating people to be OK with gays? And the MSM said a character wasn't trying to secretly do anything. Doesn't seem like Dumbledore was trying to do that, either. And, yeah, it would be a "flip-flop" if Rowling was the creator of the Teletubbies. She never flip-flopped on anything.
Catholic prep school: It might cross my mind, but I think I'd understand that just because a few priests are messed up doesn't mean they all are.
"What I'm concerned about
October 22, 2007 - 19:09 ET by Indiana Joe"What I'm concerned about is my 10 year-old son and how HE would feel about this.
Why?"
Why? WHY? Maybe because I feel that no one has the right to indoctrinate my son sexually no matter WHAT their orientation is, THAT'S why!!! ESPECIALLY in a sneaky, subtle way. WTF, bal? I have a RIGHT, a DUTY, to have a say in what my child is exposed to. Can't you get that?
And the point is the MSM treating the two cases differently, THAT'S the point of the thread! NOT Rowling! Can't you get that either?
I can't help but feel you're deliberately playing dumb now. And purposely mis-stating your true thoughts and feelings (as in, "It might cross my mind, but I think I'd understand that just because a few priests are messed up doesn't mean they all are"). I'm not buying it. I think you would have been gleefully playing "dog-pile" with the others when the priest gay sex-scandal broke.
I've enjoyed sparring with you in the past, because you seemed to honestly consider other ideas. People told me you didn't, but I went with what I saw. Well, now I'm seeing. You're either being purposely obtuse, resorting to the "bob-and-weave" that others accused you of before, or you really just don't get it.
Either way, this has now become pointless.
I'm not trying to "bob and
October 22, 2007 - 19:55 ET by balboaI'm not trying to "bob and weave." I'm trying to understand your objection. Those are my true thoughts. I don't think it's fair to impugn all gay priests because of the deviants.
Just because Dumbledore is gay doesn't mean anyone's getting indoctrinated, does it?
The MSM treating the two cases differently? It's not the same thing. One was a teletubby suspected of being gay to indoctrinate toddlers. The MSM said it's stupid to assign a sexuality to a teletubby. And the other is a character revealed as gay, but he was never suspected of anything. So, yes, a character was revealed to be an "undercover" gay, but so what? He wasn't indoctrinating anyone.
No, the MSM said it was
October 22, 2007 - 20:36 ET by Indiana JoeNo, the MSM said it was paranoid to think a "stealth gay" would be snuck into a children's show.
Frankly, I think it's a lot of crap, a publicity stunt maybe, and in the end, utterly pointless.
If she wanted the character to be gay, why not bring it out right up front?
I guess you'll never understand my objection. I never expected you to agree, just to maybe understand. I object mainly to the deceptive aspect of it. And don't bother asking me "what deceptive aspect?" Either she hid this angle through 7 books, or she's just making it up now.
Whatever, I'm tired of the topic. As I've said before, pointless.
As you said, IJ, "If she
October 22, 2007 - 20:55 ET by balboaAs you said, IJ, "If she wanted the character to be gay, why not bring it out right up front?" That's an EXCELLENT point. I think it's stupid to NOW say the guy was gay, kind of a GOTCHA thing. But I don't think her saying that suddenly changes how you should view the books or the character. Yeah, you might have to talk about homosexuality with your kids now (if they ask), and maybe you didn't want to yet, but aren't there worse things in life? I don't think she did it to force you to talk with your kids about it. That's just me.
Bal
October 22, 2007 - 21:06 ET by botgyou have to read the 6th line on page 66 of every book to fully understand
"The more I study science, the more I believe in God." Einstein
No no, I get it. Falwell
October 22, 2007 - 21:57 ET by balboaNo no, I get it. Falwell was right. Rowling is trying to indoctrinate our youth, tricking them into thinking gay people are OK. The horror.
YOU DON'T GET IT!!! SO KNOCK
October 22, 2007 - 22:01 ET by bretzysdudeYOU DON'T GET IT!!! SO KNOCK IT OFF!!!
Oh calm down. Sheesh...
October 22, 2007 - 22:14 ET by balboaOh calm down. Sheesh...
Bal
October 23, 2007 - 15:47 ET by botgi messed up when i wrote:
you have to read the 6th line on page 66 of every book to fully understand
i should have written:
you have to read the 6th line on page 66 of every book backwards to fully understand
"The more I study science, the more I believe in God." Einstein
"Yeah, you might have to
October 23, 2007 - 06:30 ET by Indiana Joe"Yeah, you might have to talk about homosexuality with your kids now (if they ask), and maybe you didn't want to yet, but aren't there worse things in life?"
Since when is it some author's business (or anyone else's) to force me to talk to my son about anything? I don't like pulling this out, but you're not a parent, bal, are you?
And the only things we're now allowed to object to are the worst things? Excuse me?
That's pretty absolutist of you. Like your argument that if we give any credit to Canada's way of spelling "potatoe," we have to emulate other countrys' political and social structure.
You don't get it, you won't get it, so just forget it.
First, IJ
October 22, 2007 - 21:08 ET by BlondeWelcome back.
Secondly...ignore the balism's...they've only become more inane over time.
You're wrapping yourself around the axle over nothing here.
Bal doesn't get it...because he doesn't choose to.
Big surprise.
Glad to see you back, here, tho, my friend.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Hi Blonde,
October 23, 2007 - 06:22 ET by Indiana Joeand thanks, nice to be back... well, mostly, ;^)
"Bal doesn't get it...because he doesn't choose to."
That's pretty much my conclusion at this point, too.
yes bal - that was the implication
October 22, 2007 - 16:41 ET by Dee Bunkthat people wouldn't be sneaky about putting gay characters into children's programming.
The biggest question is
October 22, 2007 - 13:42 ET by Lame CherryThe biggest question is in police genre is what benefit would there ever be to sexualize children's characters as even Harry Potter is now "homosexualized"??????
The answer is motive for if these people want children sexualized then it must be for the action of having sex with children.
That is all quite illegal as it is disgusting. So the question is when is the DOJ going to start cracking down on this pedophile indoctrination campaigns which are centered in England and America?
(Yes the writer is well aware Muslims trade in children and the southeast Asian rings for pedophiles of western origins, but let America first clean up this molestation and then crusade for children's protection from this around the world.)
*HIC IACET ARTORIVS REX QVONDAM REXQVE FVTVRVS
"Paul Is Dead" Revisited
October 22, 2007 - 13:56 ET by Hero SquadThis is not intented to be a knock on Rowlings writing skills... but if you've written 7 books with a character and have to spell out a characters sexual orientation because no one saw it, you either did a poor job of presenting the character (intentionally or not), or you are just having fun with people, trying to get them to re-read the books to search for all the clues.
It's "Paul is Dead" all over again, except that she had to start the ball rolling on it.
**My Daughter at the WWII Memorial
It's called crass shameless
October 22, 2007 - 14:54 ET by dscottIt's called crass shameless self promotion of her books and then there's the merchandising, where millions upon millions are made. I guess it is just as well Dumbledore is killed off in the Half Blood Prince. Like she really needed to say that crap at all.
This is also just her way as a single mother who happened to be successful to poke the eye of those who advocate the nuclear family, i.e. mother/father parenting is best. You will note the mother/father parenting team of Harry's Uncle and Aunt were villified, while Harry the ophan was glorified.
What a fool, now her books will not be remembered for the adventure and team spirit but for promoting the gay and parentless lifestyle. This was a very poorly thought out remark.
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. dscott: The line between malice and stupidity is called depraved indifference.
Think of all the Dumbledore
October 22, 2007 - 15:00 ET by Chris NormanThink of all the Dumbledore costumes that'll now be rented in San Francisco on Halloween!
Chris... So right you
October 22, 2007 - 15:03 ET by bigtimerChris...
So right you are....
I think this whole thing is outrageously sad.
What times we are living in, makes one shudder.
BT,
October 22, 2007 - 16:03 ET by Chris NormanShe just couldn't leave it alone. I suspect we will hear more gratuitous and controversial disclosures and comments from Ms. Rowling, now her series has come to an end. Gotta stay in the news...
Jerry
October 22, 2007 - 13:58 ET by cvgbuckeyeFalwell was a very good man, wonderful shepherd of God's people and an undeserving target of atheist and luke warm believers.
Please do not answer this with that WORN OUT "I'm no Jerry Falwell fan" or "he was right on some things B-U-T I'm no Jerry Falwell fan". I am so tired of the YES, BUT people that I could scream. Take a position; have some spine.
Take note of "The Man in the Arena"
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasims, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who never knew victory or defeat.
Theodore Roosevelt
I think Jerry fits this description and is with our Lord because of it. I also know of those in the "cold and timid soul" division.
He was wrong about a few
October 22, 2007 - 14:02 ET by Hero SquadHe was wrong about a few things, but I'm a big Jerry Falwell fan.
Is that OK?
Oh, and in searching for innuendo... could it be that Dumbledore is an anagram for Do Elder Bum?
**My Daughter at the WWII Memorial
Good
October 22, 2007 - 14:40 ET by cvgbuckeyeanswer Hero BUT refer to "The man in the Arena" again.
Please. No wand jokes. Or
October 22, 2007 - 14:49 ET by Jack BauerPlease. No wand jokes. Or Hogwarts STD inferences.
I never liked Falwell.
October 22, 2007 - 15:09 ET by balboaI never liked Falwell. Still don't.
Like he really cares what
October 22, 2007 - 15:16 ET by dscottLike he really cares what you think at this point????
Move on Bal, move on, nothing to see here. Though I find it interesting you care what he thought.
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. dscott's corollary: The line between malice and stupidity is called depraved indifference.
Look at the previous post:
October 22, 2007 - 15:24 ET by balboaLook at the previous post: Please do not answer this with that WORN OUT "I'm no Jerry Falwell fan"
or "he was right on some things B-U-T I'm no Jerry Falwell fan". I am
so tired of the YES, BUT people that I could scream. Take a position;
have some spine.
He was asking for an affirmative position, so I gave him one.
Bal, that went right over
October 22, 2007 - 15:36 ET by dscottBal, that went right over your head...
I find it interesing you care what Falwel thought.
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. dscott's corollary: The line between malice and stupidity is called depraved indifference.
I care only enough to know
October 22, 2007 - 16:15 ET by balboaI care only enough to know I didn't like the guy.
I'm curious, what
October 22, 2007 - 17:02 ET by dscottI'm curious, what specifically did he do or espouse that made you not like him?? I don't seem to remember any scandals of a sexual or financial nature that would set off a Libertarian such as yourself. Surely, even you acknowledge his right to shoot off his mouth in public when he objects to something?
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. dscott's corollary: The line between malice and stupidity is called depraved indifference.
First, I'm not a
October 22, 2007 - 18:42 ET by balboaFirst, I'm not a libertarian. I don't like what he said after 9/11, and I think televangelists were mostly crooks who bilked people out of money for their personal gain in the name of religion.
Sorry for mischaracterizing
October 22, 2007 - 19:21 ET by dscottSorry for mischaracterizing you as a Libertarian, maybe I should have said Libertine? LOL
I'm inclined to sympathsize with your stereotype of televangelists. However, to be fair to Falwell, unless you know of any criminal conviction making him a crook, he is innocent until proven guilty. As such to my knowledge he was an upstanding person until proven (not asserted) otherwise.
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. dscott's corollary: The line between malice and stupidity is called depraved indifference.
I think you got bal mixed
October 23, 2007 - 12:12 ET by Hero SquadI think you got bal mixed up with sarc.
**My Daughter at the WWII Memorial
Dumbledork....
October 22, 2007 - 14:03 ET by SeptemberAlso wears lifts, a toupee, and has been rumored to take botox treatments the night of every full moon.
I don't see why being gay would matter in a world where living things are divided into magic/not magic, or human/not human. Where do you draw the line? If Dumble wants to do it with a troll or a spirit or something what do you call that?
The left likes to think they are shocking all the Christians but they are not. They are more world-savvy than the libs like to paint them. Who knows what Rowling intends--a joke, a tease, a bit of revenge against her critics--whatever. Let the NYT drone on. What's "shocking" is that people actually spend their precious lifetime on the internet discussing this stuff on Potter fansites.
Who cares?
October 22, 2007 - 14:38 ET by KC MulvilleI was a Jesuit for a few years, and the first two years were spent in novitiate, sort of like a religious basic training. Just as soldiers have a drill sergeant; religious novices have a novice master. My novice master was gay. He never said anything at the time, and in fact, I didn’t realize it until one of my fellow novices told me in my second year. (I have no gay-dar at all.) Nevertheless, he was a great novice master, and taught us more about prayer than all the books in the library. I had tremendous respect for him. Because my novice master was gay, Dumbledore’s being gay doesn’t bother me in the slightest.
Of course, even though I loved the Harry Potter series, one little thing still bothers me. Why does Harry Potter need glasses? What good is all that magic if it can repair bones, travel in time, and conjure up magical creatures for defense … but they can’t manage simple ophthalmology? Stuff like that drives me crazy. (LOL)
" ...but they can’t manage simple ophthalmology?"
October 22, 2007 - 14:45 ET by Chris NormanKC,
Good question. In a related and silly question: in the movie remake of "The Mummy", the mummy stole the eyes from the guy who wore glasses. So, why didn't the mummy need glasses also? :)
Ha!
October 22, 2007 - 15:15 ET by KC MulvilleYeah, I know it's off-topic, but I love these kinds of examples.
In Star Wars, Anakin Skywalker confesses that he got angry and murdered all the women and children of the sand people on Tatooine. He confesses this to his girlfriend Padme. What does she do? She marries him.
I mean, is this guy really Grade-A husband material?
Even evil
October 22, 2007 - 15:17 ET by Chris NormanEven evil villains-in-the-making need love? :)
Or, "evil villains
October 22, 2007 - 15:44 ET by sixlbs9ozOr, "evil villains in-the-need, making love."
If you can't trust a
October 22, 2007 - 15:19 ET by Jack BauerIf you can't trust a self-confessed child killer, who can you trust? Love hurts.
Of course, wouldn't you
October 22, 2007 - 15:20 ET by dscottOf course, wouldn't you marry a person who loved you so much that they would wipe out everyone who had anything to do with your long drawnout, senseless agnozing death? <sarcasm, I felt I had to put that in there>
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. dscott's corollary: The line between malice and stupidity is called depraved indifference.
OK, so first it's the
October 22, 2007 - 14:05 ET by Hero SquadOK, so first it's the dimmest of the Teletubbies that gets the gay tag (do gay men really carry purses and wear ballerina dresses?), now its someone with "Dumb" clearly in their name.
I gotta say, if I was gay, I'd be a little upset about this characterization of low intelligence in popular culture. /sarc off
**My Daughter at the WWII Memorial
pureblood bias
October 22, 2007 - 15:05 ET by Casey97We now know why other professors were so concerned about Dumbledore’s “private lessons” with Harry. They always wanted Harry to tell them where he and Dumbledore were going and what they were doing. They were always concerned about Harry's safety. The Daily Prophet (even with it’s pureblood bias) may have been correct. Dumbledore’s fascination with Harry may have not been a proper relationship for a student and professor.
Shouldn’t the pro-homosexual side of the argument be offended. As they argue this type of behavior is genetic, and Dumbledore’s brother Aberforth was caught using improper charms on a goat. Since both have the same parents, and same genetic material, is Rowling equating homosexuality with bestiality?
/*-/*-/*-/*-/*-/*-/*-/*-/*-
With Democrat revisionist history and liberals guaranteeing the future (global warming, nuclear destruction, etc.) only the future is certain; the past is always changing.
Jerry was Right
October 22, 2007 - 15:38 ET by KeithMr F
You neglected to mention that the suspicion about the "Gay" teletubby came not from Jerry Falwell but from the MSM who had been speculating about it AND from "gay" activists who were claiming it as fact, LONG before Falwell entered the fray. BTW, I hardly think Jerry is "Smiling". IF he's doing anything at all, he's repenting from all of the false doctrine he taught all those years ( he baptized people incorrectly and he told them they had the Holy Spirit without ANY PROOF ( glossalalia). The fact that you THINK he COULD be smiling is troubling since the actual "Bible" says that the "dead" are "in their graves".
John 5:28,29
28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Clearly you are suffering from the sort of false doctrine that dear Jerry taught. The very fact that supposed "Christians" think that when they die, they go to "heaven" when the BIBLE SAYS THEY DON'T. Should "shock" you. It should make you realize that you've been following an apostate church (catholic) or one of it's false offshoots ( Episcopal, Methodist, Lutheran, Baptist, Protestant,) who merely regurgitated the catholics false doctrine. Think about it. I'm not attacking you, I'm trying to TEACH you. People on this site have attacked me for printing bible scriptures that they've never even seen before because it shows their beliefs to be false like the false embracing of Christmas trees which God specifically said he HATES (Jeremiah 10:3-5). Similar to the guy who does the WND cruises and authored "Shocked By the Bible"! So don't be mad at me, I just didn't write a book! Here, on perhaps the most important question to any believer, where one spends eternity or how one gets there, you all are clueless! Doesn't speak well for your teachers, that's for sure. How would ANYONE be in HEAVEN when there's been NO JUDGEMENT DAY? Duh. Repent, find an Apostolic Church that will baptize you like everyone ELSE in the bible, (In JESUS' NAME) not empty titles (father, son, Holy Ghost), because the NAME of Christ is the ONLY name in which your salvation lies, they will also "tarry" with you until God changes your language (tongues) which also is necessary (although the churches that think you die and go straight to heaven, don't teach that either!) BTW this error in your thinking was SO ENORMOUS that seeing the truth in scripture SHOULD shock you to your core and make you re-examine all that you thought you "knew". God bless and keep up the good work.
OT overall, but in
October 22, 2007 - 15:48 ET by sixlbs9ozOT overall, but in reply:
Glossalalia is PROOF that someone should be baptized? Verse and chapter? Are you about to cite Acts? I have other questions for you if you think that Pentecost is proof that all Christ-followers today receive a special ability to speak an unknown language when the Holy Spirit comes upon them...
you got it right!
October 23, 2007 - 02:00 ET by KeithDear Sixlbs90z,
You wrote*** Glossalalia is PROOF that someone should be baptized? Verse and chapter? Are you about to cite Acts? I have other questions for you if you think that Pentecost is proof that all Christ-followers today receive a special ability to speak an unknown language when the Holy Spirit comes upon them...***
I didn't say that "Glossalalia is Proof that someone should be baptized" in anything that I wrote. BUT IT IS. It's actually amazing that you made the connection that way! I said that people like Falwell taught a brand of Christianity that was bibilically deficient, to be kind. There is NO ONE baptized in the empty titles of "father son or holy ghost" in your entire bible. The only NAME under which salvation is given is the matchless name of JESUS CHRIST ( Acts 4:12, 2:38, 19:1-6, 10:43-end). Similarly folks who want big churches teach that speaking in tongues is irrelevant, unimportant, only for the early church, or some other mismash of garbage when Christ specifically said......Mark 16:15
17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
He also said, in response to flattery from a ruler of the Jews named Nicodemus ,that if you're not "born again" you're not gonna make it. JOHN 3:1-8. So how are there supposedly "Christian"churches that look down on someon claiming to be "born again" as an extremist of some kind? Because Satan has "leavened" their doctrine, that's why! Jesus also said that the "new birth" was accompanied by an unintelligible SOUND and that this is common for ALL who receive the Spirit of Christ. John3:8
8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
You'll notice that the only evidence of the "wind" is the "sound" that you cannot pin down. This is not taught in false churches as it requires people to receive an answer from Jesus Christ as opposed to just "joining" a club! It can be scary to put your faith on the line while waiting for that answer! However, I do not disagree with the statement that "glossalalia is PROOF that someone should be baptized", I simply didn't MAKE that statement. It is however, CORRECT. You wanted chapter an verse, here you go. In the tenth chapter of the book of Acts, Peter is sent a dream by the Holy Ghost. In this dream he is told to go to a man named Cornelius' house and to tell him and his household what they must do to be saved. At no time does he say , "just believe it's all by faith", to the contrary. Peter preaches Jesus to them, he lets them know about the sacrifice that was made on their behalf as Peter was speaking to them, they REPENTED IN THEIR HEARTS. In the following passage of scripture is the key to salvation and the key to exposing FALSE DOCTRINE. First let's set the table. It was unlawful for a Jew to ENTER the home of a Gentile, much less preach to them. This will come into play in both the 11th and 15th Chapter of Acts were Peter has to justify his baptism of the Gentiles! Peter didn't go to Cornelius' house alone, he took men with them, former Jews who now were "Christian". Jews referred to Gentiles as DOGS and they were very prejudiced against them. Peter would address their prejudice once he saw that God was indeed "dealing with " the Gentiles. After preaching for a while, the people began to speak in tongues. THe following parentheticals are mine...
44While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
( the Holy Ghost DEFINITELY fell on those who heard his word, so WHATEVER happened to them, is indeed what reception of the Holy Ghost IS, according to the Bible. If this is different that you were taught, your teachers were in error. )
45And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
( the Jews which came with Peter were amazed that God would pour out His Spirit onto the Gentiles. This one passage of Scripture refutes the false doctrine of the Catholic cchurch and it's offshoots. They say "THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT ONE HAS THE HOLY GHOST", they are liars. As you can plainly see, the Jews which came with Peter had EVIDENCE that the GENTILES had received the Holy Spirit. What was that evidence you say?)
46For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
( they HEARD them speaking in tongues! This was the proof that God had extended salvation unto the Gentiles in fact it was SO important that the new birth experience be indentical to that of the Apostles that Peter recounts the whole thing in laborious detail in acts 11 and 15, with emphasis on the "same thing happening to the gentiles which happened to them". Contrary to fake preachers which say it doesn't matter and that the Apostles could get the Holy Ghost ONE way and YOU can get it ANOTHER. Liars!)
47Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
( Peter appeals to the conscience of the Prejudiced folk that came with him. "now that you have seen that they got the HOLY GHOST the SAME WAY or ( as well as we), can you use the jewish law, to prevent me from baptizing them? They could not)
48. And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
( you will notice that they were NOT baptized falsely in the titles ( father, son and holy ghost) they were baptised in JESUS NAME just as EVERYONE ELSE WAS! This is also the only place in the Bible where someone receives the Holy Ghost BEFORE being baptized! So that was VERY perceptive of you. By the way, it is also STILL being poured out THIS WAY TOO! In 1992 after I received the Holy Ghost on December 27th between 2-4 pm, I taught an ex-girlfriend over the phone in another state, I taught her for about two or three weeks. She listened, she read her bible, an she repented. Then she called and told me that the Holy Ghost had come upon her while she was praying and repenting on her knees. After speaking in tongues for about an hour, she KNEW as opposed to "believed". When she called me, I talked to a Pastor friend of mine and we contacted the PAW (Pentecostal Assemblies of the World) and found a church in her area that would baptize her PROPERLY in JESUS' NAME!
***you wrote***
"if you think that Pentecost is proof that all Christ-followers today receive a special ability to speak an unknown language when the Holy Spirit comes upon them..."
I don't think that, I KNOW THAT. I have baptized many in the name of Jesus Christ and seen MANY speak in the languages of men and angels. BUt I have a problem with your terminology if you will. "Pentecost" is not the act of speaking in tongues, "PENTECOST" HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CHRISTIANITY. We call ourselves "Pentecostals" merely because the HOLY GHOST was given to the Apostles after a long wait and it happened to fall on them on the day of Pentecost, which was simply an end of harvest celebration. The day had nothing to do with the events of the Holy Spirit it just happened on that day. No different than if Jesus came back on say April 15th (tax day) this day already had a meaning (negative, lol) which would be erased by the commemoration of an act of God, but the day of Pentecost itself, "pre-dated" the catholic holiday. They err greatly because they seek to single this day and it's events out for "special treatment" as if what happened to the Apostles and disciples was "only for them", it was not. There are TWO types of "speaking in tongues". There is the "initial manifestation" of the Holy Spirit , which like on the "day of pentecost" would be the first time that a person has received the Holy Ghost. This is, as Jesus said, common for "EVERYONE THAT IS BORN OF THE SPIRIT" (John 3:8) Then, there is the "gift of tongues" which comes AFTER the initial reception. Someone without the "gift of tongues, (one of the NINE gifts of the Spirit, 1Cor 12) may only speak in tongues at the initial reception. Subsequent utterances may take repentance as great as what brought it on the first time, or may not happen at all AFTER THE INTIAL IN DWELLING OF THE SPIRIT that is! Whereas someone else may obtain the Spiritual Gift of speaking in tongues AFTER the initial in-dwelling and speak in heavenly utterance whenever they chose, for the purpose of "recharging" their spiritual "batteries", if you will, which is where people get confused. Just like GOD separated the people by splitting their tongues (genesis) and prophesied through Isaiah that HE would SPEAK TO HIS PEOPLE through "stammering lips and other tongues" Isaiah 28:11,12, he also said that the NEW BIRTH would be accompanied by this indeterminate SOUND (john 3:8) Thanks so much for your thoughtful response, if I can be of any help, don't hesitate to write (v-ford@yahoo.com). GOD BLESS YOU, "SIXLBS"!
Woe there son, reign in on
October 22, 2007 - 15:50 ET by dscottWoe there son, reign in on the rhetoric. Your lack of religious tolerance is not acceptable, in fact you're acting like a liberal by talking this way.
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. dscott's corollary: The line between malice and stupidity is called depraved indifference.
Thank you D-well
October 22, 2007 - 16:50 ET by Sick-n-TiredThank you D-well put.
Regardless of the faith or denominations we choose, we all have our own relationships with said diety. Keith leave it at that and please keep those comments to yourself.
Who the HECK was talking to YOU?
October 23, 2007 - 03:14 ET by KeithIs your name MR F? Or SIXLBS9OZ or GOLD ANGEL? WHo the heck is (DSCOTT?) or Sick N' Tired? I wasn't talking to YOU so maybe you should mind your own business! The things I wrote were to Specific people, I couldn't care less about your nonsensical "tolerance of religious diversity" or whatever junk your sellin'. The RINO tables down the street go peddle your wares there! What you know about your "faith" wouldn't choke a flea, THERE ARE NO "FAITHS" and there certainly are NO "DENOMINATIONS", there is only FALSE DOCTRINE and the TRUTH as taught by Jesus and those He Chose! The fact that you think there are," many faith's or denominations, is the degree to which you have been deceived. There is only ONE faith. And it is only practised ONE way! The APOSTLES way. Period. ALL ELSE IS FALSE and was prophesied to be so.
Ephesians 4:4,5
There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5One Lord, ONE faith, ONE baptism,
Since there are more warnings in the New Testament against listening to false doctrine than there are against any other SINGLE subject, it would behoove you to discover which "faith" is the RIGHT ONE! Since there is only ONE BAPTISM recognized by GOD it would behooved you to listen to the people he picked personally and get wet THAT WAY! If your watered down doctrine were right, then it wouldn't be POSSIBLE to oh, say, "worship Christ in VAIN" would it? The lukewarm "deity" you imagine would accept any junk you conjure up, right? BZZZZZ! WRONG!
Matt 7:21-23
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Have YOU prophecied by using the power of the name of Jesus Christ? NOPE. Well, THEY DID, and it wasn't enough! Or do you think Jesus is just waxing "rhetorical" when He says that they DID prophesy in His Name? And since your lukewarm "understanding" thinks that "any old thing will do", try this on for size..MATT 15:7,8
7Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9But IN VAIN THEY DO WORSHIP ME, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
OOPS. GUess you're WRONG. It does matter how you worship being that there's only ONE FAITH and all! I found your comments to be rude and insulting. Who the heck do you think you are to tell me what to comment on? You would do well if one such as I deigned to instruct you, having done miracles in Jesus name. BUt I'm NOT an "Amway" kind of Christian because I understand the WHOLE BOOK. I know that most of you are lost beyond finding and I don't worry so much about you anymore. I know that most of you who THINK you are Christian are in fact, NOT. That's how you can even CONTEMPLATE putting a SODOMITE LOVING BABY KILLER like Rudy Guiliani, in office! A "CHRISTIAN" wouldn't. A "Christian" would realize that in many ways, Rudy, is more DANGEROUS than HILLARY. If SHE ascends to the Presidency the mobilization against her will be MASSIVE. The Pro-Life movement will be a bastion for the disaffected and thus will thrive. But if Rudy should be President, the PRO-LIFE movement will be UNDONE! The last bastion of morality on this spent globe, the Republican party, will be in the hands of the Enemy! A man so vile he wants to kill babies and make YOU pay for it! Roflmao. Mind your beezwax and you won't have to be offended. Otherwise pick up a danged Bible and test the scriptures for the truth of what I say...I dare you. The reason I wouldn't debate with you is because you don't know anything. You argue like a woman, emotionally with nary a scripture to support your whining. Oh, taste and see that the Lord is GOOD. Search the scriptures for in them ye think ye have eternal life! Prove me wrong, don't just Say IT.:} Silly rabbit.
Son, when you post on a
October 23, 2007 - 09:33 ET by dscottSon, when you post on a public thread, you're talking to all of us and thus we all respond when we have something to say. Take your discussion to a forum thread or Open thread, you have that choice, but this thread is not about the finer points of your particular understanding of the Faith. Stick to the topic at hand.
I will suggest your mutually exclusive attitude does not win any points here with the rest of us conservatives. You are entitled to your beliefs, however, just like with liberals you are not entitled to shove them down other people throats by insisting that your way is the only way to interpret the facts. I'm suggesting that if you are a Christian you take my comments to heart. "The anger of man does not achieve the righteousness of God." We had another poster who thought that she could rant on her particular doctrine and was given the "left foot of fellowship".
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. dscott's corollary: The line between malice and stupidity is called depraved indifference.
blink, blink......crickets
October 23, 2007 - 13:50 ET by Sick-n-Tiredblink, blink......crickets chirping......
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!
Man you are all over the board. 3:14 in the a.m.----must have been some cocktails involved with this late jumbled, and rather forthright post.
As you have so overtly expressed your opinion here so may I----after all as Mr. D said, it is a public forum. We may agree or disagree but it is all fair game.
---still chuckling....
Keith, then why was it not
October 22, 2007 - 16:13 ET by bassndudeKeith, then why was it not untill the 20th century that glossalalia came around here? Father, Son and Holy Ghost? Who is the Father? Who is the Son? Who is the Holy Ghost? There were no Christmas trees in the time of Jeremiah. Where did Jeremiah write about them? I think your some what confused. OR, you have been fed some of that false doctrine your so fond of. And just where in this do you find that the Christians do not belive in the resurection and the second comming? Your cracked, and dont know what your talking about. Stick to political commentary.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
"Your cracked, and dont
October 22, 2007 - 17:35 ET by ckc1227"Your cracked, and dont know what your talking about. Stick to political commentary"
Bad idea, as he knows even less about politics. ;)
Oops, sorry. Dident mean to
October 22, 2007 - 17:44 ET by bassndudeOops, sorry. Dident mean to open a new can of worms.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
I know enough not to vote
October 23, 2007 - 04:23 ET by KeithI know enough not to vote for a sodomite loving babykiller. Do you , Oh enlighened One?
Because You Asked Somewhat Nicely.
October 23, 2007 - 04:22 ET by KeithI will respond to you because of the semi-civil tone you took. Your questions will be addressed in the order given.
1. ***Why was it not untill the 20th century that glossalalia came around here?***
The premise of the question is false. IF you read the book of Acts and subsequent epistles you will see that people have been speaking in tongues since the day of Pentecost. If you seek to imply that glossalalia took a "pause" or something I would suggest that it would be YOU who is "cracked". If it appears in your bible and your bible states that it's necessary for salvation, which IT DOES, then the answer to your question would be irrelevant! Not that I don't know the answer, i do, but the question is SILLY! After the death of the last Apostle, John, on the Isle of Patmos, the devil, through agents already warned about in Scripture, worked to change the Doctrine of Christ as it related to both Baptism and the InDwelling of the Holy Spirit. One such warning (there are MANY) can be found HERE.
Acts 20:27:30
27For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
28Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
29For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
Paul was specifically warning the Ephesian church that he had just RECENTLY preached out of darkness about the deception to come! In 2Thess Paul warns of those who were posing as Apostles who taught that the day of Christ had already come and gone! After the last one of them died, the "universal church" was formed. By perverted men, who lusted after the eminence of an Apostle but had none of the power. The "universal church" became known as the "Catholic" church. This church was Prophesied by Paul, to Timothy as the false church under the influence of Satan here....1TIM4:1-4 He even included the signs by which you would know them! The Universal church split into several groups at various times hence my use of the word "offshoots". The Methodist, Lutheran, Episcopal, Baptist and Protestant Churches all had their origins in the false church. While they protested much of the false doctrine, for instance, none of them practice idolatry to the same degree as the Catholic Church, they retained some of the most harmful aspects. None of the offshoots pray to "Mary" or "Peter" or anyone but Jesus, the got that right at least. UNFORTUNATELY, Baptism and what it took to receive the Holy Ghost were two areas upon which they were virtually identical to the False church. While the Universal church split into it's various factions, it was not the only game in town! There had been Apostolic people telling the Priests that they were wrong! They were killed by the church. Most of the churches that came out of the catholic church have COMPLEX DENIALS of all of the scriptures I site, you just aren't as well versed as even they are. The complex system of denial means that they HEARD IT BEFORE which means that the truth has always existed contemporaneously with their false doctrine so how is it you think it just popped up in the twentieth century? This country was founded by those who practised and taught FALSE DOCTRINE so is it any wonder that the truth took a while to make it to your door? Considering that they killed the opposition, that is.
2. ***Who is the Father, Son and Holy Ghost?***
His name is Jesus Christ and he is the physical embodiment of the Godhead. Not three separate dudes that hang with each other sometimes.
COLOSSIANS 2:8,9
8Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9For IN HIM DWELLETH ALL THE FULNESS OF THE GODHEAD BODILY. (what part of ALL the FULNESS has you thinking in THIRDS!)
Then of course theres this...JOHN 1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ( So the WORD IS GOD, not a "part" of God and the Word's NAME is Jesus)
2The same was in the beginning with God.
3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. ( the WORLD was made by JESUS CHRIST which predated your understanding of His origin by a couple!)
14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. ***the WORD which was GOD became FLESH and lived among us. And in order for us to "understand" that relationship to the limited degree to which humans are capable, it was described for us in terms with which we were "familiar". "AS OF the only begotten of the Father" means "as if". It takes a realtionship that's slightly easier for you to understand, between "Father and Son" and it gives you that as a METAPHOR. But JESUS went into laborious detail so that HIS apostles would not think that was the TOTALITY of that relationship. Peter taught that the Prophets like MOSES and ISAIAH and JEREMIAH all prophesied by the SPIRIT OF JESUS CHRIST! Hard to do under the "consensus" understanding of Jesus which has Him coming on the scene in Bethlem a mere 2000 yrs ago!
1peter 1:10-12
10Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11Searching what, or what manner of time THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST WHICH WAS IN THEM did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. ( Isaiah 53)
12Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
So Peter knew when Jesus uttered Matt 28:18 what you don't, that Jesus IS the Father (john 14:6-11, John 10:30) the son (obvious) and the Holy Ghost (john 14:26, 15:26 2 Cor 3:16-18). Which is why he baptized the people in Jesus Name and so did all the other apostles and disciples on the Day of Pentecost and every day after that! (acts 2:38)
3. ***There were no Christmas trees in the time of Jeremiah. Where did Jeremiah write about them? I think your some what confused. OR, you have been fed some of that false doctrine your so fond of.***
NO pally it's you who is "confused" and you how has swallowed "false doctrine". I HAVE the Spirit of Christ, IT IS THE TEACHER! When you have the '"real thing" that is. I have no need to be taught of men when I have the Word of Knowledge, my boast is in the Lord. There were no Christmas trees in Jeremiah's day, true. But God "sees the END from the BEGINNING" being the author of "time and space". That's how PROPHECY works, God who knows what will come, tells YOU who doesn't....duh! Well, God certainly knew that the people would be plagued by False Doctrine didn't He? The plethora of scripture devoted to the subject alone, would bear that out, so why would you be confused? Jeremiah didn't know that we'd be so vile as to kill our children in the womb but the Lord sure did! Which is why he told Ole Jerry this....
Jeremiah 1:4,5
Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
5BEFORE I FORMED THEE IN THE BELLY I KNEW THEE; and BEFORE thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
Stating CLEARLY that GOD put that spark in that womb and that it is a PERSON in the mind of GOD even BEFORE that time! Oh, and about those danged trees of which your false doctrine is "so fond". lol. The practice of involving trees in worship didn't begin with Christianity, that's just how LITTLE you know, oh condescending one! Sry. The devil had tried to influence the Jews with the False doctrine of the HEATHENS. You know who they are dontcha?
JEREMIAH 10:2-5
2Thus saith the LORD, LEARN NOT the way of the HEATHEN, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the HEATHEN are dismayed at them.
3For the customs of the people are VAIN: for one cutteth a TREE out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
4They DECK IT WITH SILVER AND WITH GOLD; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
5They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.
Blam. Biblical SMACKDOWN in progress! Clean up on aisle three! In short, the practice of decorating TREES was a HEATHEN practice which you were told NOT TO LEARN. Apparently those great bible scholars you follow "missed" that one! While I'm exposing false doctrine..chew on this. Still blaspheming by calling those "priests", FATHER? Hmmmmmm. In terms of the proper address towards those in religious heirarchy, I believe you were instructed thusly...
8But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9 .AND CALL NO MAN YOUR FATHER UPON THE EARTH: FOR ONE IS YOUR FATHER, WHICH IS IN HEAVEN. ( guess the pope missed that one, huh? or what part of "no man" is fuzzy for you?)
10Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
The last question you had "where in this do you find that the Christians do not belive in the resurection and the second comming?" Doesn't make any sense and can't be construed from anything I've said teaching about the necessity of Baptism and proper reception of the Holy Ghost. I have refuted your inanity with scripture, crack a book, turn a page and try to do the same, if you dare.
Your Response
October 23, 2007 - 06:37 ET by jsteve2xKeith,
Your responses are refreshing. To try and reason with morons is futile and frustrating for me. I quit doing that some time ago because they simply will not listen. However, you obviously continue to have the drive and passion, not to mention the scriptural prowess and wry wit to reply to those who would prattle on about their own little world. This is good. Perhaps some of it will sink in. Keep up the good work. The comment about the ex-impeached presidents' wife getting in power which would solidify the conservatives/Christians was a salient point. The snippet about "What third of that didn't you understand?" was good and elicited a laugh. Oh, and as a note of interest: When scripture was infused into the conversation, the talk about the depravity of homosexuality was briefly diffused, like a fresh cool bwind after having walked through a sewage plant. Amazing about the power of the Word, so refreshing, and reinforcing.