Scarborough: Media Matters Used 'Phony Story' to Go After Rush

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As Brent Baker of MRC/NB has documented, MSNBC has been among the worst MSM offenders in propagating the falsehood that Rush Limbaugh had accused all anti-war military members of being "phony soldiers."

A point of light at that same network this morning, however, as Joe Scarborough and Willie Geist combined to debunk the Media Matters allegation, accusing the organization of using a "phony story about a phony soldier" to go after Rush.

It began at 6:04 A.M. EDT today, during the "Morning Joe" opening coffee klatsch.

View video here.

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JOE SCARBOROUGH: Now you've got Media Matters going after Rush Limbaugh. This really does look like a phony story about a phony soldier.

WILLIE GEIST: Once again, Joe, as we did with O'Reilly [regarding his "Sylvia's" comments] we went back and looked at the transcript. The comment they're talking about is the, quote, "phony soldiers" comment that Rush Limbaugh made when he was talking to a caller on his show last week. Well, he was talking about a specific solder, this guy Jesse Macbeth, you might remember, who claimed to have served in Iraq and came back and criticized the war. He never went to Iraq, never served.

SCARBOROUGH: Hold on one second, by definition, can I Google "phony soldier"?

GEIST: I don't think you have to Google on this one. So, it's sort of hard to argue that he was, that Limbaugh was [not] right on this one. Again, no context ever given. They see the quote "phony soldiers," and that's all they hear. But he was actually talking about a person who actually was a phony soldier.

SCARBOROUGH: Yeah, so it's been blown out of context.

GEIST: Of course.

SCARBOROUGH: I'm sure Media Matters will make a lot of money for blowing it out of context, cause people hate Rush Limbaugh, and you know, so who knows, maybe George Soros will write them a big, fat million-dollar check.

During all this, the normally voluble Mika Brzezinski stayed silent as the Sphinx. But when Joe, a bit later, displayed the cover of New York magazine showing Bill Clinton as "First Lady," Mika suddenly found her voice, wanting viewers to understand that "it's a joke, it's a joke," adding that Bill is "going to be far more than a First Lady." "Going to be"? Guess Hillary's election is a done deal in Mika's book.

In any case, good on Joe and Willie for exposing Media Matter's fraud, one that congressional Democrats and their MSM echo chamber were only too happy to exploit. Will we now see the rest of MSNBC, from Tamron Hall to Chris Matthews down to Keith Olbermann, correct the record and apologize for the serial misreporting?

Bonus Coverage -- Joe Suggests He Might Have Been Too Tough on O'Reilly: It was something of a day for setting the record straight at "Morning Joe." Before turning to the Media Matters smear, Scarborough harkened back to his harsh criticism [documented here and here] of Bill O'Reilly for the "Factor" host's comments about "Sylvia's" Harlem restaurant.

SCARBOROUGH: Media Matters went after Bill O'Reilly, and I just have to put a little asterisk here, I went after Bill pretty hard too, because I thought what he said was ridiculous. But I heard a lot of people this weekend, like liberals, on the Upper West Side, as I was walking up and down Broadway, you know, people smoking dope, saying "hey Scarborough, I think you're being a little tough on O'Reilly."

GEIST: Really?

SCARBOROUGH: Yeah, I did, I did, I seriously -- and some people around here saying it may have been blown out of proportion. I don't know.

Mika could be heard in the background uttering a skeptical "ehhh." Bubbles is clearly sticking with the bash-Bill brigade.

View video here.

—Mark Finkelstein is a NewsBusters contributing editor and host of Right Angle. Contact him at mark@gunhill.net.


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phony soldiers

At some point are we conservatives going to fight back,I would love to see a concerted effort to go after all propogandists in the msm. A jihad against all their advertisers, hurt them finacially, make them realize their are consequences for their constant misreporting the news, or worst making it up in a effort to hurt all things conservative.

Time Will Tell

As disconcerting as some of this stuff is, I'm hoping it helps to wake people up to the kinds of tactics the left utilizes when it wants to destroy someone.  Unfortunately, when they act like this, they then get members of Congress and the MSM (CNN & MSNBC) to be complicit in their efforts and that is very troubling.  Additionally, we're seeing now what's behind the likes of Media Matters (Soros and Clinton), as well as other organizations, particularly the one headed by John Podesta (another Clintonista).  What's important here is for conservatives to understand the tactics of the lefites, and fight back forcefully.  I'm not sure they've got the message yet, but it's getting there and Rush, for one, is not going to be silent.

Well, since Harry Reid has

Well, since Harry Reid has joined the attack, I think it is time to let this all blow up in their faces.  Harry Reid, the guy who said Iraq was lost before the Surge even began, defending the phony soldiers who advance Harry and the Dems position.  Another Fake but True story from our patriotic friends at the Democrat Party. 

Harry Reid, you are a traitor and need to be arrested immediately.

When you feel you have to walk on eggshells to avoid problems with the MSM you are being codependent, the cure is to stomp on the eggshells

Harry Reid

A PROUD AMERICAN

Harry Reid YOU need to go away and never be heard form again!  You sir are a disgrace to the citizens of Nevada and ALL of America. I am a Nevadan and a voter. Proud to be from Nevada ashamed of a traitor like you.

At some point are we

At some point are we conservatives going to fight back

We are fighting back.  Right here on NB. 

But I will admit that it seems like it's not enough.  There is big money and big political control involved.  As Noel pointed out in his post regarding smear campaigns here Media Matters has a strong direct link to Hillary.  IMO, this is a relationship that needs to be continuously questioned and exposed. 

Are there candidates on the right with that kind of link to Conservative websites or Conservative talk radio?  I don't think so. I don't know of ANY Conservative website or show that has gone down this smear campaign road.  Oh, boy..  that last sentence will bring out the trolls. 

I guess even the Ambien

I guess even the Ambien wasn't working for Joe and he had to clear his consience in order to sleep at night.

Thank you for doing the right thing, Joe. The truth will always set you free.

----------------

“What we have done for ourselves alone dies with us; what we have done for others and the world remains and is immortal.” - Albert Pike

Well don't be too sure....I

Well don't be too sure....I was thinking the same thing at first. Joe got one right. There's hope for him yet.

Then I got to the bottom of the post and they were talking about the O'Reilly smear, and Joe says:

I was walking up and down Broadway, you know, people smoking dope,
saying
"hey Scarborough, I think you're being a little tough on
O'Reilly.".....[ ] ...and some people around here saying it may have been blown out of proportion. I don't know.

So he goes after Media Matters on the Limbaugh thing, but he just couldn't bring himself to say he had done the same thing to O'Reilly.

Very brave.

motherbelt - Joe should have admitted that he was fooled by MM

I agree with you, he needed to do more than say he was a little hard on him. It was a logical place to explain how Media Matters was also behind the distortion of O'Reilly's comments that and that he was roped in himself.

One encouraging thing about Scarborough

...is that he admitted today that he reads NewsBusters.  "I like reading NewsBusters to learn when I'm over the line."

Mild sarcasm?  Maybe, but probably some truth, too.  Apparently the NB staff and posters have some corrective influence on Joe.  Keep up the good work!

He really said that RJ?

That is great. I think most of the media reads newsbusters now. I don't think most of them take criticism to heart like Joe, but it can't hurt.

He did, Dee, but even more startling, the gang at Morning Joe

...seemed to defend pedophilia.

In discussing Elton John's apparent affinity for little boys, Joe said "The English seem to like little boys....well they're a quirky bunch"  to agreement by his co-hosts.

Pedophilia is "quirky?"

RJ - How disgusting

Liberals often treat pedophilia and rape as no big deal when it's done by someone they admire. Like Woody Allen, Roman Pulanski, Mel Reynolds and many others.

That "quirky" comment

That "quirky" comment reminded me of a thread I commented in a couple of days ago. Someone was defending the Folsom Street Fair, and said he/she was thrilled to live in SF, a city where "outre behavior" is celebrated. I replied similarly to you: Oh, is that what public, gay, group sex is now called? "Outre" behavior?

Oh, and get up to speed. ;-)

There is no pedophilia any more.  It's now referred to as "inter-generational sex."

Wish  I was kidding, but I'm not. 

Wow... Glad I missed this

Wow...

Glad I missed this segment that is mentioned above by you guys and gals...

Figures though...it is msnbc.

What rational.

MB, you're talking about notsocleversocialistpig

I saw that exchange, motherbelt.  The left's belief that it's ok to do whatever they want to whoever they want, including "quirky inter-generational sex" is sad, isn't it? 

BTW, notsoclever told me later that she's actually from a nearby bay city...the People's Republic of Berkeley, I think. 

RJ,

Funny, as I had her pegged as a Euroweenie. Now I find out she is acrually from another planet.

I love NB. You learn something new every day here.


When I'm president, privatization is off the table because it's not the answer to anything.
-Hillary Rodham, September 3, 2007 AARP Legislative Conference.

Dave, since she often touts the "benefits" of European socialism

it's not surprising that most of us thought that...

mb... I heard all of this

mb...

I heard all of this too this morning...

Scarborough seems to go in an endless circle to me...

(I personally detest the guy)

Glad to hear NB's mentioned though....lol.

BT,I never particularly

BT,

I never particularly like Scarborough when he was considered a Conservative. His whole style seemed stilted, forced, and uncomfortable.  He really doesn't have any natural broadcasting talent. Now, he reminds me of someone who's been brainwashed but everyone once in a while, has flashbacks to who he once was, before it goes away again.

 Scarbrough backing you up

 Scarbrough backing you up isn't much.  Rush doesn't need him for that and frankly, I wouldn't trust the weasel.  But that's just me.

Someone spends so much time gutting you and then backs you up isn't worth a hill of beans.  So Rush,  take what Scarbrough says with a huge grain of salt.  He is the ultimate RINO. 

MSNBC = Elementary School Mentality

MSNBC reminds me of all the stupid kids who would pass on a rumor and with each passing it got more and more fantastic.  MSNBC is the smelly arm-pit of the MSM.  With folks like KO, Mika, and Mathews, they might as well forfeight all credibilty (however small it might have been).  Everybody knows what Rush said, and everybody knows how much he loves the troops.  I am sick and tired of this game of 'gotchya' the MSM likes to play and ignores real issues.  Despicable.   

The American Revolution Continued

    This is another

 

 

This is another pot calling the kettle black article from MRC. Following the threads on Media Matters one will find the complete truth of the comments. Just follow the threads and you will see the manipulations of Rush Limbaugh from starting with the comments about the phony soldier, then broadening the comment to include Rep. Murtha as a phony soldier, then in true Limbaugh fashion, expounding to include other anti war individuals. Unfortunately, if you use Limbaugh’s site for transcripts you won’t see the original conversation. It has been altered. I think Media Matters has the original transcript before Rush realized what he said and surreptitiously changed it. When are we as citizens going to hold all of the media to truthful statements?

 

Those who fail to learn from History, are destined to repeat it.......

Rush didn't change the transcript--I was listening to the progra

Again, it is said that those who are the most distrustful of others...who believe the worst in people, are generally those are not trustworthy themselves.

Then your fully aware of

Then your fully aware of Rush’s embellishments to news stories from this entertainer. And some will tell you that they are totally unbiased……..

 Those who fail to learn from History, are destined to repeat it.......

I know what I know and I don't know what I don't know.

What I know is that you blindly believe what you read from Media Matters as if they have any credibility, whatsoever.  What I don't know is whether you post here as a concerned citizen because you really believe the drivel they spew in the name of truth or if you're motives are to discredit this website and it's posters as part of your job.  (I suspect it's the latter, but give you the right to defend yourself.)

 

Unfair

It's unfair to attack Limbaugh for being an entertainer. Rush does political commentary as part of his routine, just as Jon Stewart and Steven Colbert base their entertainment on politics. Are you willing to attack Jon Stewart for 'embellishing' quotes from Bush? How about Letterman's 'Great Moments from Presdiential Speeches,' where Bush stammers and stumbles? Hey, it's comedy, get a sense of humor. But it we want treat all political commentary out of context, then let's swoop in and cherry-pick quotes from Stewart, and then gasp in false horror at what stray comments might imply. Nobody does that with Stewart because we all understand context. Stewart has a fake news comedy show, and that's the context you judge him within. You can take anyone out of context and it will look bad.  

Talk radio is a different genre. Rush holds a daily conversation with his audience. It's a different genre than broadcast news, where each segment is self-contained, and the meaning is discernible within each segment. He's not a news reporter. Rush is an entertainer. He includes the Paul Shanklin parodies, the chats with guests, and jokes, because Rush's job is to keep his audience amused. It's a talk show, not the CIA analysis unit. It's a different format. 

Apparently, however, these nuances are lost on his critics. They can't think or retain memory for more than a thirty-second sound byte, and so they judge Rush by their own limited thinking.

Then KC, you would at least

Then KC, you would at least agree it's fair to attack Limbaugh for his straight political commentary.  Frankly, the distinction between entertainer and political analyst is often difficult, but largely irrelevant.  Many full-time entertainers can and have been guilty of ill-advised, tasteless, utterances, and consequently subjected to withering criticism. [Can you say "Dixie Chicks"?]  Someone such as Bill Maher may be compared to Mort Sahl--a comic whose routines almost entirely consisted of wry social commentary and the deft insertion of the political needle.  Has Maher's  anti-administration "politainment" made him a target of conservatives?  You bet.  My first post at NB was in response to the claim of his alleged "regret" that Dick Cheney wasn't blown up by terrorists.  It seemed to me a misreading or misinterpretation of his words, as Maher himself persuasively confirmed shortly thereafter.  Another example was the joke/fantasy related by Alec Baldwin on the HuffingtonPost, which concluded with his vision of having killed bin Laden and thrown his body out of a window, which by chance landed on Dick Cheney.  This attempted humor may have nudged the bounds of propriety, nor have been particularly funny, but it hardly warranted the "gasp of false horor" (as you aptly describe the reaction of the Left to Limbaugh) from those charging--incorrectly--that Baldwin dreamed of killing Cheney.

While the Limbaughs and O'Reillys may deserve more latitude when wearing their "entertainer" hats, it is wrong to drop an impervious cone of protection (from criticism) over them simply because a statement may be an exaggeration to make a point, or a flippant conclusion flowing from an otherwise sincere premise.  It's within this latter category that I would place O'Reilly's tirade against the San Francisco proposal to ban military recruiters in high school which prompted his invitation to Al Quaeda to bomb parts of the city.  The validity of his premise was overshadowed by the despicability of his conclusion, serious or not.

Sure, Rush engages in sketch-like comedy.  He's also smart, "entertaining" and presides over a lively, slick production which has accorded him fabulous wealth and enormous influence.  But, in my view, all of this is embroidery--merely accessorizing his principle role as political analyst, conservative commentator, and (generally) GOP cheerleader.  [Has any Democrat--pundit/entertainer--been made an honorary member of Congress as was Rush by Republicans?]  [Will Rogers?]  Volumes could be filled with examples of Limbaugh's excessive rhetoric...attacking the patriotism of honorable Democrats, comparing Tom Daschle to Satan, claiming Clinton and Janet Reno deliberately incinerated women and children at Waco, ad infinitum, ad nauseum.  I think it's entirely appropriate for Democrats to go to war over Limbaugh's character assassination--just as I feel Republicans are similarly entitled regarding outrages by the Left.  Unfortunately, with their assault on the "phony soldiers" story, the Democrats chose to fight the wrong battle.

Jer

Jer, I think you are missing the point

The point is NOT whether Rush makes inflammatory comments at liberals.  When Bill Maher makes such incendiary comments, I simply consider the source, weigh what he is saying in my own mind, and move on.  I'm sure you do the same thing with Rush.

However, the point of this story is that a liberal watchdog group took Rush out of context and the national media took their account word for word and regurgitated it nationwide.  Then, members of the US Congress did the same thing. 

That is downright scary because if the media will do that to Rush, they'll do that to anyone or anything that doesn't fit the template.  Power like that left unchecked is very very dangerous and I'm going to do everything in my power to stop it. 

timothe, with all due

timothe, with all due respect, I didn't miss that point....It's the very reason my comment closed with the observation that, by attacking the "phony soldiers" story, the Democrats "chose to fight the wrong battle" and why I stated on a related thread the other day that the charge by MediaMatters was "rather flimsy".

By the way, I don't necessarily agree the remarks were taken out of context--although Rush did try after the fact to shove a lot of self-serving context into the issue.  But it just provokes the demurral:  So what?  In my view, it's like ignoring felonius assaults while throwing the book at someone for jaywalking. There was no way his opponents could shape the context to produce anything other than a weak accusation--one that Rush could swat away like a gnat. 

Jer 

You're still missing the point, Jer

It's not that Media Matters distorted the story. It's that ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, and MSNBC ALL reported the Media Matters version of the story without checking the facts, which were easily obtained on Rush's website. If they'll do that with someone as insignificant as Rush, they'll do that with other, more important stories as well.  The national news media cannot be trusted. 

Well, timothe, I do agree

Well, timothe, I do agree with most of your comment, if you'll allow me a couple of addenda:  1. The "facts" were very difficult to discern in this instance [by the MSM or anyone else], and thus made it a very weak case for MediaMatters to run with, and 2. Insignificant?  Rush Limbaugh?  This conservative guargantua and relentless slayer of liberal dragons, who with "half his brain tied behind his back...", etc. ? Wash your mouth out.  I may be mistaken, but I think even Bush once referred to him as "the most important man in America."

Jer

Context

Jer, I'll agree that context doesn't forgive a comment when it's wrong; but in this case, the context explains why the comment wasn't wrong in the first place.

I have heard several analysts pop off that Limbaugh couldn't have been speaking of a single person (Jesse Macbeth) because he said 'phony soldier[s]' as a plural, so he must have been speaking in general of all soldiers who disagree with the war. Then, to rebut Limbaugh's objections, they say that it wasn't taken out of context because Rush didn't mention Macbeth until a few minutes later. The analysts pat themselves on the back as if they had just Perry Mason'ed Limbaugh into a corner. Boil the tar and pluck the feathers, they think, because they have rebutted Rush with ... with ... geometric logic ...

Well sure, if your context only spans a few minutes.

When I say that Limbaugh has to be judged within context, I'm referring to the fact that as a talk radio host, his context is a long term conversation. His context isn't two minutes or hours, it's a long term relationship with his audience.

So let's examine that context. Rush was responding to callers. The caller's original point was that the media gives respect and a microphone to any anti-war soldier, even if the vast majority are in favor of their mission. The media never give the same consideration to soldiers who support the war. You might think, well, many support it and many don't, and you may assume that the soldiers are as divided as the civilians about the war. But Rush was making an important point: if you signed up for the military, you knew you were going to be sent to Iraq or Afghanistan, so the vast majority of soldiers knew what they were getting into, and signed up anyway -- meaning that the vast majority of soldiers agreed with the mission. If the media wanted to truly represent the opinion of the military, it would be overwhelmingly in favor of current policy. So the point that the caller was making, and that Rush was trying to amplify, was the ridiculous and unfair weight that the media gives to anti-war soldiers.

In that context, remember the phony Scott Thomas story (just a few months back), in which he admitted that he was writing a false 'diary' in Iraq that accuses the troops of atrocities. Why did that solider get published? Because the media was more interested in pushing the anti-war agenda than the truth. Plus, Rush had done the news update story of this Macbeth clown, and that's the context in which Rush made his remark. When the caller hung up, Rush immediately reminded the audience of the Macbeth conviction for fraud.

No honest, fair-minded listener could possibly conclude that Rush was calling all dissent unpatriotic or phony. That literally came from left field. Out of context.

KC's thumb...meet Mr. Hammer

KC's thumb...meet Mr. Hammer.  Actually, KC, I was mostly in lockstep with you until you veered down a sidestreet during your closer "examination of context".  Then you began stumbling over potholes.  The conversation with the second caller [Mike #2, philosophically sympatico with Rush] was nevertheless more disjointed and ambiguous than Limbaugh's somewhat contentious discussion with Mike #1--a give-and-take Rush rather disingenuously claimed he was "unable to intellectually follow".  Apparently, what Rush couldn't follow was how his producer allowed him to become entangled with an articulate, anti-war Republican with nine years in the military.  Thus with Mike #2 he attempted to steer the subject back 'on message'.  But this caller's sometimes curious--even controversial--remarks, coupled with Limbaugh's careless responses, created the current firestorm.  Consider the following assertions by the second caller...

--that most didn't join the military to "serve their country" like he and a "few" others did.  [Mike had enlisted fourteen years ago]

--it was the real soldiers who want to be in Iraq and understand the sacrifice...not the phony soldiers [Limbaugh's phrase] who talk to the media

Well, who are the phony soldiers?  Those in Iraq, but don't want to be there?  The ones who talk to the media and voice objections to administration policy, or fail to paint an appropriately rosy picture of the war?   The question is really never answered.  While Rush does (later) make a specific reference to the exposed fraud, Jesse Macbeth, it is by no means evident that this one example was intended to limit the number (of phonies) to one pathetic charlatan.  What about the seven soldiers serving in Iraq who wrote a critical op ed in the NYT[four of whom have since been killed].  They seem to fit well within the definition of "phony soldiers" as characterized by Mike and Rush. 

Let's follow your prescription and not limit the context analysis to a "couple of minutes of programming content" and consider the "long term relationship" with Rush and his audience.  But, in doing so, one encounters a long history of attacks on Democrats and Bush critics who served in the military, and thus your position is undercut instead of aided.  For example, Rush...

a. called decorated Viet Nam vet Chuck Hagel "Senator Betrayus" (sound familiar?)

b. claimed Democratic candidate and Marine Iraq war veteran Paul Hackett enlisted merely to pad his resume

c. accused John Murtha and John Kerry of being phony soldiers...hiding behind their uniforms...along with Max Cleland whose "uniform didn't do him any good"

d. suggested General Wesley Clark was awarded a fourth star solely only because "he begged Clinton" for it

e. labeled Air Force veteran Tom Daschle a disgrace to patriotism...who aligned himself with America's enemies

So, as long as Macbeth is used for context--and I agree he should be--isn't it likewise proper to include the foregoing examples to add further depth to the portrait? 

Finally, I would never assert that Rush "was calling all dissent unpatriotic".  After all, Limbaugh himself "dissented" with respect to Clinton's military action in the Balkans--while our airmen were flying combat missions.  I can only surmise that Rush selectively plays the patriotism card for political reasons.  And I think an "honest, fair-minded listener" should agree.

Jer

BTW, Scott Thomas?  I suspect The New Republic will be wiping egg off its masthead for a very long time.   Interestingly, there were no greater advocates for invading Iraq and supporting Bush's policies with respect thereto than the senior editors of TNR

Specifics allow it

When you hear a sportscaster referring to "the Joe Montanas or the Jerry Rices"  Do you honestly assume there are more than one of each of them?

~LYDSEXICS UNTIE!~

No...just of the same

No...just of the same general stature [But, admittedly, CA, I do put both Montana and Rice as "firsts among equals"]

Jer

}}---> I agree, Jer

But the Libs hang their insight into Limbaugh's intent on the "plural" argument.  I just demonstrated to you that the argument is specious on identical grounds.  Context.

~LYDSEXICS UNTIE!~

CA, I guess I'm having some

CA, I guess I'm having some difficulty "intellectually following" you.  Are you asking my opinion about the number of Montanas and Rices due to my use of the phrase "Limbaughs and O'Reillys"  in a previous post?  Or did you just toss it out to prove the use of the plural form of a word may still be limited to a single entity?

In any event, in my case, I think anyone would understand that in the individual sense, there is only one Montana and one Rice [except in  Forty-Niner fan fantasies], but there are a few other superstar pro football players who arguably stand on the same plateau.  So by employing the plural, one would intend to include those.  The case (for including others) is even more persuasive when speaking of a class or category of persons, e.g. "phony soldiers" as opposed to a named individual, e.g. Jesse Macbeth.

Jer

}}---> Well, Jer

I guess you missed the part where Libs claimed Limbaugh couldn't be talking about MacBeth because he said "soldiers", plural.

All I did was demonsterate it wasn't the first time plural was used to refer to singular.

Sorry it's so hard to follow the logic.  Additionally, there have been others who have claimed heroic acts in theatres (not movie shows, by the way) they had never visited.

~LYDSEXICS UNTIE!~

They threw it away themselves

Jer

The main philosophical issue here is what military service says about you. On the one hand, military service protects you from any accusation of America-bashing self-hatred. We honor and respect military service. If you were willing to put your life on the line for this country, that should protect you from any charge of being unpatriotic. On the other hand, military service doesn’t bestow “absolute moral authority.” None of it is absolute. It’s one thing to oppose the war, even if you’re a soldier. But it’s another thing to disrespect the military as part of your opposition.

  • John Kerry is a perfect example. He went to Vietnam, and deserved respect for that. However, when he came back and testified against the military, he threw that respect away. That’s why the story of him throwing other people’s medals over the White House fence is so revealing – he wanted to make a public statement against the military, and yet keep the respect that comes along with being part of the military. That’s why he’s a phony.

  • Jack Murtha was originally treated with great respect, even though he opposed the war. But at some point, he got a taste of media celebrity, and all of a sudden he was taking potshots at everyone. That’s when conservatives turned on him. The man who wants to be respected for his own military service showed no respect for soldiers himself, running to the microphone to accuse the Haditha soldiers of murder. Where was Murtha’s respect for their military service?

  • Let’s not kid each other. Chuck Hagel wasn’t criticized because he was against the war. He drew fire because he’s such a grandstanding, condescending pain in the ass. When he delivered his self-adoring lecture during Petraeus’ testimony, he was just displaying what everyone knew … he’s a prima donna.

  • Wesley Clark falls into the same category. He’s proud of being a general, and that’s great. But then he does other things that reveal him to be a dunce. He wrote an op-ed in the NY Times about how we must conduct the war as a criminal procedure, because it didn’t fit his definition of war as he understood it. The idea of changing his definition of war never occurred to him. I respect his service, but he’s a dunce.

Rush strongly supports the military, and has done so for many years. However, when you have a lot of Democrats and liberals who want to be respected for their own military service, but then they show no respect for the military themselves (or more respect for their own party than for the military), Rush is correct to call them on it. If a politician doesn’t respect the military himself, he has no right to enjoy the privilege and respect that comes with military service. Rush didn’t take that respect away … those boneheads threw it away, all by themselves.

I'm sorry, KC...while one

I'm sorry, KC...while one can readily agree with the general philosophical points of your preamble, they simply do not justify many of the specific, politically motivated, eminently unfair attacks launched by Limbaugh on these individuals.  Criticising their policy statements or ideological positions is one thing, but to suggest, directly or indirectly, a lack of patriotism or military 'phoniness' is outrageous, and I am surprised you find it defensible.

It's true that Murtha went too far with some of his allegations, and that is fair game for his detractors.  But he had already been getting slammed from the moment he became a high-profile anti-war administration critic.

Wesley Clark is a "dunce" you say?  You mean the "dunce" who graduated first in his class from West Point?  The "dunce" who was a Rhodes scholar with a Masters degree in Politics, Economics, and Philosophy from Oxford?  The "dunce" who was awarded the Silver Star, Bronze Star, and Purple Heart in Viet Nam, who, during his thirty-year military career, served as Director for Strategic Plans and Policy for the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and was also the Supreme Allied Commander of NATO?  Is it that Wesley Clark whom you refer to as a "dunce" (and one of the "boneheads") and who is so shamelessly taunted and belittled by Limbaugh?

If so, I only wish America could produce more of such "dunces".

Jer

Fork in the road

If we lived in a perfect world, everyone would stick to policy, but that was never true, even in the days of Daniel Webster. You have to remember that these politicians have all specialized in calling conservatives every name in the book. They've spared no expense in personal cheap-shots, so I have no sympathy for them at all. The Clintons are the worst hypocrites around; they call for an end to the 'politics of personal destrution' but revel in it themselves. Clinton claimed that Limbaugh was partly to blame for Oklahoma City -- that's a cheap shot from the president. Why should Limbaugh hold back against him? Tom Harkin stood on the floor of the senate to casually toss off the idea that Limbaugh was on drugs "again." Why should Limbaugh respect that? Because Harkin was in the army during Vietnam? Please. So let's not kid each other. These politicians aren't noble statesmen forced to stoop down; they're as cheap as they come, and I have no sympathy for them.

  • As for Wesley Clark, I owe him an apology for calling him a dunce. You're right. I was wrong.
  • However, once he became a politician, his education hasn't protected him from being in over his head. Look, I have several degrees in philosophy, but if you took me out of that and put me in a medical school, I'd be a complete dunce. Clark is a military man who's out of his league in politics.
    • Every one of his statements and public appearances since he became a politician has been a display of shallowness and/or pure partisanship. 
    • I mentioned his op-ed in the New York Times about the definition of war; that was a remarkably shallow position. (We have to fight terrorism as a crime because terrorists didn't fit his definition of soldiers in uniform. Wow.) 
  • I use that only as an example. Listen to his description of the Limbaugh incident: "Last week, Rush Limbaugh labeled any American soldier who supports an end to the war in Iraq as 'phony.'" 
    • Now I ask you, Jer, as a fair listener ... can a fair listener describe Limbaugh's comments that way?
    • You said yourself: "Unfortunately, with their assault on the "phony soldiers" story, the Democrats chose to fight the wrong battle."
    • That's a reasonable position. You want liberals to go after Rush because of his act, and I can understand that. But using that comment? No, because no fair listener would misinterpret his comment that way.

Clark is fighting the battle that, as you say yourself, is the wrong battle. You can blame it on whatever you want, but I argue it's because he's trying to swim with the sharks, and he doesn't have the teeth for it. When he became a politician, maybe he's not a dunce, but he's a lightweight.

KC, if you're attempting

KC, if you're attempting to establish that Bill Clinton is the worst hypocrite around because of his alleged cheap shot accusation that Rush Limbaugh was "partly responsible for the Oklahoma City bombing", it would help your case if you instead cited a factual example, and not a whiny, victimization fable peddled by Limbaugh and his fawning hagiographers.

Once we get that out of the way, I'll be happy to continue.

Thanks, Jer

 

Never knew Peter Jennings was a Limbaugh hagiographer

Jer, the whole point of this thread is that this distortion attack on Limbaugh was unfair and out of context. To your credit, you've already agreed to that. But you're arguing that the attack on Limbaugh is understandable because Limbaugh uses character assassination on Democrats.

Are you comfortable, then, with the idea that the Democrats are hitting back with these unfair distortions (including the hit on O'Reilly) through these websites? As you know, MediaMatters is, to say the least, a Clinton-friendly organization run by Clinton cronies. You already know that Hillary bragged about helping to start it. These sites are attack dogs; they're the 2007 manifestation of 'oppo research.' 

But let's get to the Limbaugh thing. 

  • From 1995: "The Oklahoma City tragedy led the President on April 24 to denounce "promoters of paranoia" on the "airwaves." Peter Jennings relayed: "Clinton did not say so specifically but he clearly had the words of many ultra-conservative talk radio hosts in mind. All you have to do is listen to some of them to hear how they react to those with whom they do not agree." 

Peter Jennings knew who Clinton was talking about, and he was hardly a Limbaugh hagiographer. If you want to pretend that Clinton's speech in reaction to the OKCity bombing didn't mention Limbaugh specifically, and therefore could not have been intended to mean Limbaugh, then you've surrendered the right to be taken seriously. Because then you would be saying that the president of the United States was going out of his way to warn about the social dangers of extremists, but that he was only referring to the extremists who had an imperceptible audience. Why would Clinton warn us about listening to people that no one listened to anyway? That would be a self-contradiction. His warning was clearly intended about Limbaugh and conservatives.

But all of that aside, Jer, tell me which is a greater danger?

  1. The ramblings of a talk radio host whom you consider to be an obnoxious blowhard, even though his "comedy" is hardly any more politically insulting than Bill Maher, Jon Stewart, etc.
  2. The fact that these media outlets, created and staffed by Clinton's cronies and supporters, are deliberately spreading distortions about Clinton's opponents.
    • It's even more suspicious when it comes immediately after an ally organization, MoveOn.org (which was itself founded to oppose the Clinton impeachment, by their own admission) published an outrageous slander against the commander of our military in Iraq, that embarrassed Democrats in the backlash.

Wouldn't you agree that #2 is a little more of a problem? Once we get that out of the way, I'll be happy to continue.

strings attached

I wonder how many of the trolls here are actually puppets for Soros/Clinton/left and just keep towing the disinformation line no matter what.

What does a puppet get paid anyway?

D

Keep the ILLEGALS out, join NumbersUSA to send free faxes to your reps.

DFTT, Good question. I

DFTT,

Good question. I commented yesterday that they seem to work in shifts...

Mornin' Chris... They do

Mornin' Chris...

They do work in shifts...it used to be blatantly obvious awhile back here...some of us would always say, shift change.

As the elections get nearer they seem to come in more numbers and you know who to expect most times if you are here a lot.

They never say what they get paid though...lol.

I find it comical most times.

Well, BT, whatever they get

BT,

And I thought I was being original when I typed "shift change!" yesterday. I must've seen it before and unconsciously internalized it. And I thought I was being so witty. Well, whatever the trolls get paid, it's obviously too much. Unless, maybe, it's in free tickets to Al Gore appearances? :)

Puppet Trolls don't get

paid, Soros just 'strings' them along

Yes, you are even more annoying than Blonde.  the EYE

A great cloud of witnesses

I heard Rush live, and I also heard his Morning Update on the subject.  Rush hasn't changed anything.

It's passing foolish to lie about a statement that literally millions of people heard.  But then, there are a lot of haters (small "h", not the troll) out there who were happy to swallow the lie whole.

When you put the clowns in charge, don't be surprised when a circus breaks out.

I heard Rush live, too, Justa, and you're being disingenuous

Did YOU hear the program?  Obviously not.

You're mindlessly parroting what MediaMatter says.   Murtha, for example, was not linked by Rush to the phony soldiers.   Even the libs on Scarborough admitted that.

In fact, with all the information now available, anyone taking your position must be either intellectually lazy or clearly understand they're being disingenuous.

Looks like justa equates Limbaugh with CNN and CBS

Well so do we. They are just as partisan. The problem is, that one is supposed to have objective news. Rush doesn't hold himself out to be objective, but even if he did, he's still not the news. And in this case, it was CNN and CBS who made untruthful statements. I've never listened myself, but I understand that Rush not only had the transcripts but the tapes available. Wake up Justa. You are real gullible

JustaIdiot.......repeat after me...

"I support Senator Reid, his lies, and his position on the War" 

Now move to Nevada.

And have your hearing checked, and sell that cheap Radio, you can't believe what you hear on your Cheap Radio, you need a more Expensive one.   

What good is a Free Press, if it is a False Press ?   David Foote  GoE

You also believe the

You also believe the Rathergate documents are real, too, don't you?

I fully expect a zealot like you to NEVER defend a Conservative for anything in your lifetime. You are not very discreet with your agenda, and it doesn't pass the "smells like bullsh*t" test.

I am not even a big fan of Limbaugh or BoR, but man, your left-wing hack site MM really has very little to go on. Nice try at deflecting everybody's attention from the Moveon.org fiasco and the growing realization that the Left cannot pull the troops out. Losers.

Just a Parrot your tag

Just a Parrot your tag "Those who fail to learn from History, are destined to repeat it" is very telling as you are reading history that has been tailored to propaganize you to think a certain way.  Yes you are learning but the wrong thing from tainted facts.  Do you really think there are no recordings from the show?

Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.

Justa, there is a whole

Justa, there is a whole room full of Rush listiners here, and most of us listen every day. I was listening to Rush that day. What you have posted is a flat out lie. Rush dosent alter the transcripts. Thats just you not hearing what Rush sayes, or, your parroting  someone over at Kos or MO. Grow up.

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

Thank the free market they won't get away with it for long

It's gonna slowly trickle out that Media Matter is lying and viewers will continue to trickle away from CNN and MSNBC. Those that suffer BDS will continue to hate conservatives regardless of facts. Yet, they'll eventually slip to the margins.

Hell, Iowa Senator Tom Harkin tried to get his cuts in but I sent his office a little reminder of the Senator's own "phony soldier" moment. When he ran for Senate in the 80's he claimed to be a combat and reconnaissance pilot in Vietnam. He had to retract those statements when it was discovered that his service during the war was ferrying damaged aircraft from Japan to the Phillipines.

Long memories are a wonderful thing. Of course, I can't remember where I put my socks this morning but, at least I remembered that.

Go Cubs! Go!

Hey Iowa Boy, I used to live

Hey Iowa Boy, I used to live in Harlan, IA.  I didn't know that about Harkin.  Veddy Inta-rest-ink!  Do you have links that can document that?  Thanks, r

Harkin info

Michelle Malkin has an exerpt from the book, Stolen Valor by BG Burkett and Glena Whitley posted at her site. Also, I was working for radio station KJAN in Atlantic, Iowa during that campaign and remember reading the UPI news stories on the air.

BTW. I found my socks. Do I wear blue socks with black pants, or not?

Blue with Black..  sure,

Blue with Black..  sure, you can get away with that.  LOL!! 

The Defamation Game

         The "New" left is just full of..........deceit, deception, defamation, detraction, dishonesty, disinformation, distortion, or what ever tactics they can use to smear the Right.  These people have become the sleaseballs of the country. 

 

                         God Help Us All

Mark, thanks for having the

Mark, thanks for having the stomach to sit through msnbc day after day.  Kudos to Joe for recognizing the truth, although this smear is so transparent and weak, anyone who has heard or read the transcript would not be duped by media matters lie.  It is quite embarrassing for Harry Reid, etc. to be fooled by this web site and record a comment in the congressional record.  I suspect they saw a chance to cover for their own anti-American rhetoric.  Perhaps the media should learn a lesson and do its journalistic duty of checking facts.  I hope an apology is offered to Mr. Limbaugh from the Senate floor, but I doubt one will be coming.  What I would most like to see is Clear Channel sue Media Matters.

Mark, Joe Sarborough also said he likes to read NewsBusters

"...because they tell me when I'm over the line."

However, before he said that, he also said "I like reading Mediamatters."    Now, since MediaMatters doesn't discuss what Scarborough says, it looks like he's just reading it for source information.  

Funny how newsbusters reports on Joe more than MM

Funny how newsbusters reports on Joe more than MM and he's supposed to be a conservative. That should clue him in that he's gone off the deep end because MM thinks the networks are too conservative.

Cover story for Iraq War turning the corner ?

Maybe this Rush L. thing is cover....cover for the Iraq War stats, the GOOD news on USA Today page A-16 yesterday....the absence of the GOOD news in the NY Times...missing from all the other papers.

and if you don't know what GOOD news I'm referring to....that's the point, it's under the cover of the Rush story. 

Our MSM /Press /TV is in the Toilet.  Someone pull the lever. 

What good is a Free Press, if it is a False Press ?   David Foote  GoE

I was thinking the same thing

Now that things are going better in Iraq, Harry Reid et. al. can go on record as "defending the troops." Speaking of phony....

  Ignorance is bliss. It's easier to repeat a mindless slogan than to do some actual research.

Sorry double post.

 

Was media matters behind the Bill Bennett smear also

Does anyone know if it was media matters who smeared Bill Bennett over the black babies and crime comment taken out of context a while back (last year I think)?

And, who "exposed" his big

And, who "exposed" his big dollar gambling as a controversy?  I can't remember, all these smears are hard to keep track of.  The fact is, while I personally might find that not-my-cup-of-tea, it was legal and he paid all his debts.  There was an attempt to shut him up and hurt him, though, deeply.  This, from the same people who think lotteries and casinos are such a fantastic way to get revenue into the coffers!

Anyone who says they support the troops but not the mission is a liar. 

I'll tell you who exposed his gambling...

The casinos he trusted with his privacy. They all share info, and that sharing (to protect themselves) didn't protect their customers' privacy at all. Casino customers, being gamblers & therefore losers, accepted the loss of privacy as if that were the norm for gaming institutions, instead of an Orwellian new low for them.
JMR

Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.

That is a new low

if the casino's actually gave the media the info.

I don't see

Who else it could have been? (Unless banks count, but don't get me started on financial privacy erosion!) Mediamatters simply does not have access to such info, but the casinos all-share it, to their customers' detriment. Tracking down the leak, due to all the sharing, was effectively-impossible -- as if the casinos gave even half a crap about customer-privacy anyway.
JMR

Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.

Kathleen

I didn't see anything wrong with his gambling either. He could afford it. I like to gamble too, but I can't afford to play black jack at a casino so I play poker with my friends. Awhile ago the Catholic charities used to put on an annual casino night in my city and it was a blast.  It was fun weather you won or lost because you knew the money was going to a good cause.  There is nothing wrong with gambling, just like drinking when you don't do it to the point that it hurts others you love or your health and financial stability.

I thought the black babies thing was much more egregious though because he is such a nice mild mannered man and they tried to make him out to be a raving racist. I'm really sick of them with their racist crap and all of us need to start calling them on it like when Joan Rivers starting yelling at that BBC host "How dare you call me a racist!"

Congratulations, Mr. Kingston!

And thank you, Drudge, for showing us this great resolution.  This is very cool :o)

House Resolution Supporting Rush Limbaugh 

"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war"  - Shakespeare

Kudos

I just wrote Rep Kingston an email thanking him for standing up for Rush and what is right.  We need more reps like him.

Limbaugh Smear

Rush challenged Harry Reid to appear live on his show and call
him a liar to his face. He called on Reid to step away from his
Senate immunity and face him man to man.

I won't hold my breath for the weasel to stand up.

Never happen. Reid is a cowardly, lying, scumbag.

He's also small-minded enough to be trying to get back at Rush for repeatedly calling him "Dusty Harry" and hammering on his (Reid's) dishonest real estate deals. 

Dingy, dusty, dirty,

Dingy, dusty, dirty, disgusting, despicable, degenerate, dishonest, deplorable, distasteful, disingenous, dis,dis, dis,dis....Harry Reid: 

PIECE OF DIS!

Anyone who says they support the troops but not the mission is a liar. 

In all sincerity, Go to

In all sincerity, Go to HELL,  MSNBC, MEDIA MATTERS, and all you LOSER GOBSHITE LEFTY SOULLESS PINKOS. 

The sooner the better.  PATHETIC JERKS.

I am so sick of them.  It's come down to expletives, nothing more do they require in response. 

 Please sue them, Rush!  Stop the effers.

Anyone who says they support the troops but not the mission is a liar. 

Media Matters is saying

Media Matters is saying Jesse Macbeth is a credible source.

Like the literary MacBeth,

Like the literary MacBeth, he (and MediaMatters) have "vaulting ambition"...

But I heard a lot of people

But I heard a lot of people this weekend, like liberals, on the Upper West Side, as I was walking up and down Broadway, you know, people smoking dope ...

 

Sorry, Joe, but you just gave Media Matters a scrap to use against you for this dropping "the MSNBC anti-Rush and anti-O`Reilly line ..."

MSNBC's Joe Scarborough (R) admits to being a street walking drug user on the Upper West Side ...

That's how it works, isn't it?

I was thinking the same

I was thinking the same thing myself. That is funny.

Who knew

BJ Clinton as Monica on the cover of the magazine.

Joe

In case you're reading Joe..thanks for having a spark of goodness in you shine through...we can only hope for further retraction of your comments on O'Reilly as your concious speaks to you. I only sneak a peak on MSNBC once in a blue moon and that's when you are on...cause I know there's that forementioned "goodness" in you that I like to be around to see when it slips out now and then.....:) It gives me hope there's something out there fighting to be fair and responsibile when it comes to reporting the news as it should.