Rather: 'Nobody Has Proved Documents Were Fakes'

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Partners in deception, partners in denial . . .

Earlier today I noted that in her HuffPo column, ex-CBS producer Mary Mapes continues to cling to the delusion that the Memogate documents were authentic. In an inteview on "Morning Joe," Dan Rather has now made a comparable reality-defying claim.

Mika Brzezinski, who, as was repeatedly pointed out, used to work at CBS and has friends on both sides of the issue, conducted the interview. Bubbles didn't have the gumption to challenge Rather regarding the forged documents at the heart of the story. Interestingly, Rather chose to raise the issue himself, and in doing so demonstrated his tenuous grip on reality and some twisted journalistic standards.

View video here.

DAN RATHER: We haven't noted here, Mika, that nobody has disputed that the story of President Bush's service in the National Guard, how he got in, and what he did and didn't do when he went in there, nobody's disputed the story was untrue [sic]. We were, uh, made vulnerable on the documents which, by the way, let me point out also, that nobody has ever proven the documents are, quote, fraudulent or, uh, that they were, uh, fakes, as some people have written.

As I noted regarding the Mapes's column, fake-but-accurate rides again.

In any case, Mika didn't confront Rather with any of the mountains of evidence demonstrating that the documents were blatant forgeries. This "Little Green Footballs" overlay is my favorite. Brzezinski instead chose to ask a hanging curveball of a question.

MIKA BRZEZINSKI: Then why read the apology, Dan?

Host Joe Scarborough remains out on sick leave, but had called in and listened to the exchange. When it was over, he wasn't as accepting of Rather's claim as Mika.

JOE SCARBOROUGH: He said that these documents have yet to be proven false. I guess I need to go back and take a closer look at it, and I'm not being facetious here, either. I thought most everybody, from the New York Times to the LA Times had determined these documents were fake.

—Mark Finkelstein is a NewsBusters contributing editor and host of Right Angle. Contact him at mark@gunhill.net.


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Dan Rather

Rather:  We were, um, made vulnerable on the documents which, by the way, let me also point out, nobody has ever proven the documents are, quote, fraudulent or that they were fakes, as some people have written.

Don't worry Dan. If you lawsuit goes to trial, the document will be proven to be a forgery a court of law by a preponderence of the evidence.  You see Dan, Microsoft Word was not around in the 1960s.

Is anyone else having

delete double post

 

nobody has ever proven the


nobody has ever proven the documents are, quote, fraudulent or that they were fakes,
-Dan Rather

Dan, even if we want to accept that preposterous premise of yours, no one on your side has proven that they were authentic; or did I miss that newsflash? Oh, I forgot, Mary Mapes decided that proving your documents were authentic wasn't necessary. We were supposed to just take your word for it. However, anyone disputing your claim needs ironclad, incontrovertible proof.

Truth

When has the truth or facts actually mattered to those suffering from BDS?

 

http://thelazytriathlete.blogspot.com/

what's the name of that

what's the name of that river in egypt?

Da Nile.  "There is a

Da Nile

"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT

rather not

...and no one has ever PROVEN that photosynthesis really works!  It's still just a theory.

I Love it!

This is getting goooood!!!

I am almost to the point of

I am almost to the point of felling sorry for this jerk. I
truly believe that he is delusional. The entire world saw that the papers were
fake!

 

Look Dan, I have Columbus’s diary its right here! I know it
looks like it was done in Micro Soft word but trust me.. It’s not!  It even has his signature on it. On the
inside cover is a note from Moses. Ya got believe me on this one.

 

I love the fact that the new people have to re-run the story
displaying the bias..     

 

Just like Move on.org the more they yell the more people
hear them!!

These are the boys of Pointe du Hoc.
Ronald Reagan- 40th Anniversary of D-Day

LGF or NB should ask to put the Word doc on Joe's show

It would be nice to see the EXACT match of the microsoft word doc on NATIONAL TV.

 That would DESTROY the liar Rather.

 I can't for the life of me fathom why that hasn't happened yet.

Reality defeats perception

Like a football game, you have (1) the actual game, and then (2) what the commentators say about it. At the end of the year, they only count wins and losses. No one cares about what the commentators say. When it comes to politics, however, the media only cares about what the media says about events, and the events fade into the background. The media, which makes money in the opinion business, are always trying to disconnect perceptions from reality.

The media also knows that the farther removed we are from the actual event, the easier it is to manipulate perceptions about it. Plus, now we have a few years of young people, easy to manipulate, who weren't paying attention when the story rolled around the first time. Before the alternative media came along, the mainstream media could wait until our collective memory faded, and then they could discuss past events with their spin unchallenged. That stuff doesn't work anymore.

Sugar coat in 1973 ?

I guess "sugar coat" was a common phrase in 1973 ?

Oh, and when some bigshot like then out of the service Staudt calls your boss and makes a demand, you whine moan and complain about hardships in your "memo" file. You also use Cover Your A** (CYA) - when it's about covering a VIP's - that was so COMMON-

 - according to Rather's interviewie he had a list with hundreds of names on it "back then" - but now of course it's lost....

Oh, and it doesn't say how he knows, but just like the LIBERAL assumption, "Staudt has obviously pressured Hodges" - yeah, that obviously happened.... cause Hodges was breathing down your throat to "make it right", too, huh. But not you, no sir, you ain't gonna do it when #1 of all time just retired told you to. Nope - you're BMOC...

Oh, and..Who is this note to ? Yourself ?

Yep, that's how it works, he incriminates himself by making sure he archives a note to himself about the BIGSHOT of the NG recently retired giving him "orders" to make it go smooth, which he basically REFUSES.

 Not real bright there libs.

Dan Rather was also

Dan Rather was also involved with "The Wall Within" about Vietnam Vets.  B. G. Burkett who wrote "Stolen Valor" was able to determine that much of what was reported in the documentary was false.  This shouldn't be too surprising, considering Cronkite worked for CBS, and his reporting on the Tet Offensive was also not accurate.

Here is a quote from the below link.

"The Wall Within was hailed by critics who — like the Washington Post's Tom Shales — gushed that the documentary was "extraordinarily powerful." There was just one problem: Almost none of it was true. The truth was uncovered by B.G. Burkett, a Vietnam veteran and author of Stolen Valor: How the Vietnam Generation Was Robbed of its Heroes and its History (with Glenna Whitley). Burkett discovered that only one of the vets had actually served in combat. Steve Southards, who'd claimed to be a 16-year-old Navy SEAL assassin, had actually served as an equipment repairman stationed far from combat. Later transferred to Subic Bay in the Philippines, Steve spent most of his time in the brig for repeatedly going AWOL. And George Gruel, who claimed he was traumatized by the sight of his friend being chopped to pieces by a propeller? Navy records reveal that a propeller accident did take place on the Ticonderoga when Gruel was aboard — but that he wasn't around when it happened. During Gruel's tour, the ship had been converted to an antisubmarine warfare carrier which operated, not on "secret mission" along the Vietnam coast, but on training missions off the California coastline. Nevertheless, Burkett notes, Gruel receives $1,952 a month from the Veterans Administration for "psychological trauma" related to an event he only heard about. Mikal Rice — the anguished vet who claimed to have cradled his dying buddy in his arms — actually spent his tour as a guard with an MP company at Cam Ranh Bay. He never saw combat. Neither did Terry Bradley, who was not the "fighting sergeant" he'd claimed to be. Instead, military records reveal he served as an ammo handler in the 25th Infantry Division and spent nearly a year in the stockade for being AWOL. That's good news for the hundreds of Vietnamese civilians Bradley claimed to have slaughtered. But it doesn't say much for Dan Rather's credibility. "

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/morse200409150552.asp

 

"Well I got nothing against the press.  They wouldn't print it if it wasn't true"  'Sunday Papers'

 

awol in subic

awol in subic bay, come on gang, thats the town where the pickpockets used to put the empty wallets in a box on the back of the shorepatrol office with the guys' id and liberty card in them.

the idea being that if  he lost his id and liberty card it took two weeks to get new ones,  but if he got them back he could come out tomorrow night with more money.

yeah guys went awol there, but if it happened more than a couple of times they went to the yokosaka marine brig which, while being notorious throughout the fleet as a vacation spot, also cured discipline problems in the traditional manner.

C  

 

PK, the book didn't say the

PK, the book didn't say the guy spent most of his time in the Subic brig. It just said he spent most of his time in "the brig." Possibly some of the time in the brig at Subic Bay, some in Yokosuka, who knows, perhaps some at Portsmouth. Or, the book could have been wrong all together.

"A communist is someone who reads Marx.  An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx."  Ronald Reagan

as i remember:

those who went to yokuska stayed at yokuska, the guys that went to portsmouth had done thier thing on the east coast. the leavenworth types had done their thing in CONUS.

yokuska got the west pac business because it was harder for the doogooders to get to and raise hell about. (although they did finally get to them in the early seventies.) you gotta remember it was a "traditional" Marine facility that took Navy customers, which made things interesting. rumor  was that they used more toothbrushes than the navy and marines combined and that their parade ground had to be repaved every other year.  

it was kind of on a par with the HASP (Hawaaian Armed Services Police). the day that their building in down town honolulu burned down the entire western half of the United States Navy cheered.

nuances man, nuances.

 

 

More Cronkite BS

  "This is the site of the Richelieu Apartments in Pass Christian, Mississippi," Cronkite said.  "This is the place where 23 people laughed in the face of death.  And where 23 people died."

This is the real story. Of the 23 people who stayed at the Richelieu. Only 8 were dead or missing. There was no party.

Was the source a woman who's lawyer used an insanity plea in her defense for murdering her 11th husband.

Seems old Walter had problems with getting the real story out.

"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT

The Tet Offensive is

The Tet Offensive is usually regarded as the turning point in the war.  In the book "Battle 100" by retired Lt. Col Michael Lee Lanning he refers to it as the worst knife in the back by a "friendly source" to the American Military.
Here is a link about the Tet Offensive from Encylopedia Brtiannica which in my opinion is very non biased.

https://edit.britannica.com/getEditableToc?tocId=234636
here is a quote from the link.
"U.S. and South Vietnamese troops may have recovered quickly, but that was not true of Americans at home. The Tet Offensive sent shock waves throughout the United States, startling those who had believed the White House's claims that victory was near and convincing those with doubts that the situation was even worse than they had imagined. Television coverage of the destructive fighting in Saigon and Hue was extensive and graphic and left many with the impression that the United States and its ally were in desperate straits. "


Saying the United States and the South Vietnamese lost the Tet Offensive is about the equivalent of saying the South won the Battle of Getttysburg in my opinion.
I have also heard rumors that Giap had mentioned in his memoirs about possibly offering a conditional surrender after the failure of the Tet Offensive. I haven't found any hard evidence of this so I don't know if it is an urban legend or not, but I did find this interview from Bui Tin who served with Giap and defected to France. He was interviewed by a human rights attorney in 1995 that was printed in the "WSJ" and here is his response to the question about the Tet Offensive.

"Q: What about the results?
A: Our losses were staggering and a complete surprise;. Giap later told me that Tet had been a military defeat, though we had gained the planned political advantages when Johnson agreed to negotiate and did not run for re-election. The second and third waves in May and September were, in retrospect, mistakes. Our forces in the South were nearly wiped out by all the fighting in 1968. It took us until 1971 to re-establish our presence, but we had to use North Vietnamese troops as local guerrillas. If the American forces had not begun to withdraw under Nixon in 1969, they could have punished us severely. We suffered badly in 1969 and 1970 as it was."
http://www.grunt.com/scuttlebutt/cor...tnam/north.asp

So if Giap was really going to offer a conditional surrender after the failure of Tet, there would have been quite a few lives saved from that point on. Again, I can't say for sure that he was, but I can say from non-biased sources the Tet Offensive was a defeat for the VC and Giap, and that Cronkite's portrayal was not accurate.

 

"Well I've got nothing against the press.  They wouldn't print it if it wasn't true"  'Sunday Papers'

Delusional Dan.

He's made worse statements. I remember when Rather-gate was going full force, and he was still in defense mode. He basically said something to the effect of "It doesn't matter if the documents are fake. What's in them is true, and that's the only thing that matters."

I really hope CBS doesn't wimp out and lets this go to trial.

Save your "guilty until

Save your "guilty until proven innocent" argument for the French, Dan.

*****

"I heart famous people."

Dan! Dan! Snap out of it man!

<grabbing Dan by the collar><slap>Dan!<slap>Dan!<slap>Wake up Dan!<slap>We're going down in flames and now's not the time to be dreaming!<SLAPSLAPSLAP>

(sorry, no </slap>s here...)

 DAN! It's not our responsibility to prove your report wrong -

It was your responsibility in the first place to prove it was true!

<dropping Dan and grabbing a stiff drink>

<Dan sinks to floor, mumbling, "But I'm too good to be challenged; nobody should be doing that to me; look at what a victim I am; pay me">

All observers exit stage left; lights dim as Dan crumbles in a heap. As we fade to black, we hear whimpering in the dark.

We walk out, not caring.

THE END

It's called superscript,

It's called superscript, Dan. They didn't have it like that in the '60s!

"Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage
morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested,
exiled, or hanged." -Abraham Lincoln

"What's the frequency,

"What's the frequency, Kenneth?"

Rather overboard!

The denial is unbelievable.  I honestly think he is suffering from some mental instablity brought on by the fact that he used to be a king s#!t media darling, and now he's just Mark Cuban's b#&ch.

How far we've fallen.  

The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.  ~ Unknown