On Friday’s CBS "Early Show," co-host Harry Smith and Political Correspondent Jeff Greenfield put together a Christmas wish list for the various Republican and Democratic presidential candidates. Of Mitt Romney, Greenfield said the Massachusetts Governor could use voters having "buyers remorse" about Mike Huckabee and:
I have a second gift for Mitt Romney, which is somebody to muss his hair. It's too perfect. A lot of people have noticed a startling resemblance between Mitt Romney and that of the Muppet game show host, Guy Smiley. He's got to have a mussed-up hairdo soon.
Perhaps an even more interesting word of campaign advice from Greenfield was to Hillary Clinton:
Selective memory. She needs the Democrats to remember the good things they liked about Clinton in the '90s, to forget the bad thing apart from the obvious one, the investigations and the turmoil. And if they think of her as that kind of '90s, it's going to be bad for her.
Wow, Greenfield certainly became more critical of Clinton compared to Wednesday’s show, when he said a campaign ad with Hillary’s mom, "packs a powerful emotional wallop."
Here is the full transcript:
7:01AM TEASER:
HARRY SMITH: And there is news from the campaign trail this morning. Rudy Giuliani fights off the physical and political flu, while John McCain picks up his second big endorsement from a Boston newspaper as his poll numbers surge in New Hampshire.
7:12AM SEGMENT:
HARRY SMITH: While most of us will sit back and enjoy the holidays, the presidential candidates can't stop campaigning, not with the Iowa caucuses just two weeks away. So that got us wondering, what might be on the candidates' wish list this holiday season? CBS News Senior Political Analyst Jeff Greenfield is here. Good morning, Jeff.
JEFF GREENFIELD: Hi.
SMITH: Alright so, I've got a list of Republican and Democratic candidates. Let's say, for instance, if Mike Huckabee showed his list to us, the one for Santa, what would be on his list?
GREENFIELD: Mike Huckabee wants weight, not the weight he lost, the hundred pounds, not the weight he's been -- he wants political weight, gravitas. People know him as an agreeable, charismatic guy, but he has to convince people that he's actually the right guy in the Oval Office.
SMITH: Very nice. I don't know if you saw that graphic.
GREENFIELD: Drew it myself.
SMITH: That's very impressive. Okay, let's move on down the list a little more quickly here to Rudy Giuliani. What does -- what does Rudy need for the holidays?
GREENFIELD: Rudy needs long division, by which I mean he needs the Republican field to stay divided as long as possible. It looks less and less likely he can win an early contest. But if the early contests are split, then his strategy of waiting till Florida, maybe even February 5th, has more resonance than if one guy emerges. So long division for Rudy.
SMITH: Okay. Yeah long division. Okay, let's move on to Mitt Romney. What would be on Mitt's wish list?
GREENFIELD: A case of buyer's remorse. He needs the social conservatives in Iowa to take a look at the guy they flocked to, Mike Huckabee, and say you know what, I don't think so, he's got too many problems. I have a second gift for Mitt Romney, which is somebody to muss his hair. It's too perfect. A lot of people have noticed a startling resemblance between Mitt Romney and that of the Muppet game show host, Guy Smiley. He's got to have a mussed-up hairdo soon.
SMITH: You know what, I kept thinking I know that from -- Guy Smiley.
GREENFIELD: If you've got kids it's Guy Smiley.
SMITH: Very good. Very good. This is a good one. This might be the toughest one on the list. Fred Thompson.
GREENFIELD: Not tough for me, Harry. A time machine. He needs a time machine to go back to July, when he was supposed to enter the presidential race amid calls that he was the next Reagan. He really kicked away about three or four months. He's got his groove on now, but it may be too late.
SMITH: Big mistake. Alright, let's really quickly go to the Democrats, John Edwards, what's on his list?
GREENFIELD: A January 3rd blizzard in Iowa because his caucus goers are more likely to show up. Obama's and Clinton's less likely. He wants really lousy weather.
SMITH: Barack Obama.
GREENFIELD: A surge, of optimism. His people have -- know they're taking a gamble on a guy that's inexperienced. They have to feel good about turning to an unconventional candidate.
SMITH: Yeah, and he's got a big surge in New Hampshire, here in the polls.
GREENFIELD: We think.
SMITH: Hillary Clinton, what's on her list?
GREENFIELD: Selective memory. She needs the Democrats to remember the good things they liked about Clinton in the '90s, to forget the bad thing apart from the obvious one, the investigations and the turmoil. And if they think of her as that kind of '90s, it's going to be bad for her. We left out John McCain, he wants New Hampshire. For the second time in eight years.
SMITH: And the polls look like he's starting to close in. Single digits in at least one poll with Romney.
GREENFIELD: In one poll has him almost tied. I've never seen a campaign where eight years apart a candidate's fate relies on exactly the same state that it was two -- in 2000. So those are my Christmas gifts. I don't want to offend the Jewish voters in Iowa, both of them, so we'll get a Hanukkah list the next time.
SMITH: Next time around. Jeff Greenfield, as always, thank you so much.
GREENFIELD: Okay.
—Kyle Drennen is a news analyst at the Media Research Center.
Comments Policy
Selective memory. She needs
December 21, 2007 - 14:30 ET by bigtimerSelective memory. She needs the Democrats to remember the good things they liked about Clinton in the '90s, to forget the bad thing apart from the obvious one, the investigations and the turmoil. And if they think of her as that kind of '90s, it's going to be bad for her.
What, pray tell, good things from the 90's....
Name One Greenfield...just one!
Hair!
December 21, 2007 - 14:35 ET by Clear thinkerI will be voting for substance not good hair, so Mitt's a no go for me.
Rush Limbaugh stated that of the top 5 Republicans running for the presidency, only one was a true conservative. http://www.fred08.com/
Substance like looking cool while smoking a cigar
December 22, 2007 - 00:44 ET by Daniel BakerCue Spinning in a Chair to tell off Micheal Moore. Suddenly conservative internet addicts have a new hero.
Hi bt, :Good
December 21, 2007 - 17:54 ET by shawn228Hi bt,
:Good economy
:Budget Surplus
:Highest ownership in history "decent home prices minus foreclosures"
: National debt was 3.8 trillion less than now
: High employement rate.
I realize many do not want to give Clinton much credit for these things, but your question is what, pray tell, good things from the 90's. so I have you 5
Thanks shawn
December 21, 2007 - 18:25 ET by ziplinedownI get worried that sometimes on here people get too wrapped up, and sometimes exxagerate. Clarifacation; not a Clinton fan. But we call out the MSM for unfair reporting, and we should call each other out as well.
I'm too lazy to do the research
December 21, 2007 - 18:32 ET by timotheBut I can correct you on two.
The cost of the Budget Surplus was a depleted military and more importantly, a depleted intelligence agency. Priorities were wrong in the Clinton Administration. His governance was the policies of "me".
1 trillion of the additional National Debt this year is from the entitlements Medicare and Social Security. Both Clinton and Bush 43 knew that the entitlement programs were going to explode as the baby boomers enter into retirement. Neither of them did anything about it. In other words, Clinton's "manageable" debt was not really the product of his policies...he just happened to be in office before the boom.
In fact, there is only one candidate in either party that has expressed concern over this time bomb. (Which I think is the 3rd most important issue behind foreign policy and secure borders.)
That candidate is Fred Thompson.
}}---> Here's another Shawn
December 21, 2007 - 18:44 ET by Cool ArrowThough technically a "foreclosure", one cannot honestly apply the term to a transaction that was nothing more than "rent to own".
"Nothing Down" means "Nothing Invested"
I ♣ My Seal
cool arrow
December 21, 2007 - 19:01 ET by shawn228Hi cool arrow,
Sorry I am not getting what you are saying. So the people that put nothing down and did a interest only or, adjustable rate did not invest? Just want to make sure i am not misinterpreting what you are saying.
}}---> Elementary Shawn
December 21, 2007 - 19:21 ET by Cool Arrow"Nothing Down" is the definition of "Not Investing"
I'm assuming you are a renter or you would realize how very very very little the principle on a loan is paid over 5 years.
These are people who believed their house values were substantially appreciating. If this were the case, don't you think they'd be selling at a profit rather than letting the house go back to the lender?
I ♣ My Seal
cool arrow
December 21, 2007 - 19:43 ET by shawn228"I'm assuming you are a renter or you would realize how very very very little the principle on a loan is paid over 5 years."
I own a townhouse and single family home which I rent out for additional income.
We seem to be moving way off topic. My point was in the ninetys people owned their homes without this foreclosure mess.
"These are people who believed their house values
were substantially appreciating. If this were the case, don't you
think they'd be selling at a profit rather than letting the house go
back to the lender?"
That is precisely what people thought. People that bought homes to want to sell at a profit or people that owned their homes and kept refinancing because of the once white hot market.
Now Cool Arrow. Even though most of the pmts the first 5 yrs are interest instead of principal. Yes you can right off interest and principal, but only a portion. You still need to make pmts yes?
Also because the homes are not selling now, the price of the homes have dropped and many folks owe much more that their home is worth. If they cannot sell their house, the bills still come. The house still belongs to them right? If the foreclosure mess is not a threat to the economy, I sincerely doubt President Bush would be getting involved
Wrong, Shawn
December 21, 2007 - 19:50 ET by Cool ArrowThough the "owner" controls the asset (the house) s/he is only an owner to the extent of the principal s/he's paid off.
Payment of interest does not contribute to ownership.
People were enticed into refinancing thinking they could make the equity drawn work better in other investments or defray other debts. These made a wrong gamble.
I made the mistake of withdrawing equity from my house to pay off credit cards, and though I did repay the loan, I still recognize it as a dumb move.
I ♣ My Seal
cool arrow
December 21, 2007 - 20:04 ET by shawn228"Payment of interest does not contribute to ownership."
Well the 10s of millions of proud hard working homeowners that worked and saved to buy their property and have a mortgage for less than 5 yrs might disagree with you.
Again Cool Arrow, my point was in the ninetys people owned their homes without the foreclosure mess. People having to move out of the home they put real money on, whether it be interest or principle feels very real to them. .
May I jump in? In Fact,
December 21, 2007 - 20:40 ET by Gary P JacksonMay I jump in?
In Fact, under Bush, there has been record home ownership. But, there were a lot of people who were allowed to buy a home that did nothing more than fog a mirror! They were credit risks from the beginning, who never paid attention, let alone the majority of their bills. (or at the very LEAST seldom paid on time)
To make maters worse, many of these folks were allowed to put little or no money down, AND to qualify in the first place, were put into an ARM. As soon as the "qualifier rate" expired, and the payments went into the unaffordable zone, they simply walked away. And why not, their credit already sucked, and with no real investment in the property (and absolutely NO equity) what did they have to loose?
The same goes for people who bought way more home than they could afford in the first place, at little or nothing down.
This isn't the first time that's happened by the way, and it probably won't be the last. The same thing happened to a lessor extent back in the 80's when all of the savings and loans went belly up. Forclosures were quite high back then.
I've spent a lifetime in the automobile business, and have seen auto manufacturer's finance arms play fast and loose with their lending, and it's bitten them in the butt every single time!
On the flip side, had the lenders been too tough in their practices, you would have had every dim in Congress caterwaulling, saying the lenders were unfair.
On the other hand, the great majority of borrowers, including more than 85 percent of the high risk ones, according to what I've read, ARE paying their mortgages on time, as agreed.
So, as bad as it is, we are nowhere near soup lines in America.
Gary
December 21, 2007 - 20:48 ET by shawn228Of course you can jump in Gary.:-) I agree with everything you said. I just took exception to the fact that CA says if you are paying more interest than principle, you don't really own your home.
}}---> Shawn
December 21, 2007 - 22:16 ET by Cool ArrowThe term "equity" refers strictly to that portion of the investment that is actually paid for.
I did not "own" my home until it was 100% paid for. Had I refused to make even the last payment, the remedy for the "co-owner" (the holder of the note) remained in foreclosure.
What you do "own" while making house payments is a great amount of autonomy in the use of that asset.
I can feel sorry for those people who made a very enticing but very stupid investment because I made the same mistake in the '80's. Additionally this mistake involved losing the equity from the house I sold to move into more house than I could afford.
In no way, shape, or form do I fault the banks, and certainly not my government for my mistake. Those who walked away from "nothing down" notes did "nothing more" than skip out on rent.
I ♣ My Seal
cool arrow
December 21, 2007 - 22:22 ET by shawn228In no way shape or form doo I fault the banks In fact I was angry with President Bush with this "mortgage rate freeze"
Yes when you buy a home you have to make pmts, but nobody can take it away if you keep making those pmts. I don't disagree with what you say about people having personal responsiblity, I disagree with you on the your definition of foreclosure or owning your home.
Also Cool Arrow,
December 21, 2007 - 22:46 ET by shawn228Also Cool Arrow, congratulations on paying off your home. That is a remarkable achievement and you should be proud.
I remember reading in one of your threads that you said your Wifes stomach was pregnant three times and you have a grandchild. Well I am assuming you are a little bit of a older gentleman and bought your home when they were very affordable and had many yrs to pay if off.
In the Bay Area where I live a 1800 sq foot older run down home will cost a minimun of about 550,000 even with a slow market. Even if you lock in on a great rate 30 yr mortgage, the pmts will be a little over 3000 a month and the property tax will be around 7000 dollars a yr. That is very steep especially with the price of gas and cost of medical expenses. People work very hard to pay off the interest on 550,000, so to say they do not really own their homes is kind of insulting.
Yeah, Shawn
December 21, 2007 - 22:51 ET by Cool ArrowI'm like, real old. I'm 55.
The mortgage I took out on my current house was 15 years at 11.5%. After making my mistake on the previous house, determination kicked in and I decided I wanted to own this one all to ourselves, quickly.
I ♣ My Seal
55 is not old
December 21, 2007 - 23:01 ET by shawn228My apologies
The mortgage I took out on my current house was 15 years at 11.5%.
Yikes, Unless you paid if off in a real short amount of time, why did you not refinance? You don't have to borrow money or add to your amount in a refinance.
I watch this show called
December 22, 2007 - 01:23 ET by Gary P JacksonI watch this show called Flip This House, on TLC, and it never ceases to amaze me what people pay for homes in California. I can understand wanting to live there, because parts are beautiful, and the desert climate is nice. But The houses I see folks flip make me bang my head on the table! Those 500,000 houses there, would do good to bring $75-100K here. And some of the real bad ones would do good to hit $50K
We have a lot of million dollar homes here, but $500,000 will get you brand new, one half to one acres of land. 2500+ sq ft. All of the latest goodies, stainless, granite, high end tile and carpeting.
I always feel sorry for folks that have to pay all that dinero.
Gary
December 22, 2007 - 02:04 ET by shawn228Yeah the price to live in California is steep. I am about 7 ys away from paying for one of my homes. I have worked very hard to achieve that. What part of the country you from?
I live in Temple, Texas.
December 22, 2007 - 18:23 ET by Gary P JacksonI live in Temple, Texas. It's in the central part of the state on IH35. Were about 60 miles north of Austin, and 120 miles south of DFW. Were about 150 miles west of Houston.
CA's right on that also.
December 22, 2007 - 01:09 ET by Gary P JacksonCA's right on that also. Now once you get to say, the 10 year mark on a 30 year note, you will have real equity. That equity is the percentage of the home that you really own. For example: Lets say you bought a home for 100K. and now you have $10k in equity. You are now the proud owner of exactly 10 percent of your home.
And it's even worse with automobiles! Depending on things like mileage, condition, and other tangibles, it is very possible to owe more on you car than it is worth, six moths before you are to pay it off. I've actually seen a few that were paid off, and had a value just a taste north of zero!
But again, until you've completed your contract, in effect, made every single payment as agreed, or sold your home, and used a portion of the funds to pay the original loan off, you are a co-owner along with your lender. And as Cool Arrow points out, one payment shy of paying it off, and you don't make the payment, the lender is coming a knockin'!
The only time I'd vote on
December 21, 2007 - 15:05 ET by Gary P JacksonThe only time I'd vote on looks, good or bad, is a wet t-shirt contest!
I get a kick out of those who go after Mitt because he looks too "perfect". He can't help what he looks like, no more than Senator Clinton can! Not knowing much about Mormans, I can say this. I've seen them riding their bicycles around town as they take their message door to door, and they are always nicely dressed, and even in the Texas heat, there's not a hair out of place. So I think it's all about being taught to care about their grooming, and nothing more.
The Breck girl is the one who wears me out about his hair, because that's all he's got! No substance what-so-ever!
And remember, Ronald Reagan had great hair too, even when he was on the ranch, riding his horses. Not saying Romney is the next Ronald Reagan, but it puts hair in perspective anyway.
What? Is Romney..
December 21, 2007 - 15:25 ET by Gary HallWhat? Is Romney.. using John Edwards barber?
Guy Smiley
December 21, 2007 - 15:35 ET by SouthJersey1953What is wrong with Guy Smiley? Why did they think that was an insult? At least Guy Smiley was a journalist with brains!
It's not Right vs. Left; it is Right vs. Wrong
Guy
December 21, 2007 - 15:52 ET by Del DolemonteI always thought Guy Smiley bore a striking resemblance to New England Patriots radio play by play man Gil Santos:
http://www.patriots....
Wow
December 21, 2007 - 22:27 ET by well99Didnt know Gino was a Radio announcer.Cool he was a great player.
Longtime
December 21, 2007 - 22:37 ET by Del DolemonteGino's been doing color on the radio broadcasts for many a year.
That is cool
December 21, 2007 - 23:07 ET by well99I remember the days of Gino,Babe and Jim Nance.I was a military brat so we back in forth to MA over the years.Still been a Pats fan since 63.
Romney is the Best Candidate who CAN WIN
December 21, 2007 - 15:38 ET by Six String SpiffWhat's with all of the Romney bashing? What lack of substance are you people talking about?
He's Pro English Language teaching
Pro Gun
ANTI illegal immigration
ANTI Tax
Recognizes who our enemies are and refuses to refer to them as the Religion of 'Peace'.
I am heading out of work right now, but seriously consider these things before you bash him for being a petty Mormon. Who cares if he's a Mormon? Being my governor for two terms, he never injected his faith into policy. bashing his hair is a tad liberal too... just my opinion but hey.
You are 100 percent,
December 21, 2007 - 17:38 ET by Gary P JacksonYou are 100 percent, dead-on right!
Liked Romney from the start, even though I had tilted t'ward Rudy . (and either one of these guys would be great)
Besides Mitt Romney's government experience, he has some serious business chops. He actually knows how to make something work.
I've said for years that America needs a great CEO to run for the Presidency. Well now we got one running!
All of our candidates are good men, and all but one would make a good President. But it boils down to this, who will be the best for America. The field narrows a bit after that. Huckabee is a liberal in conservative clothes. Ron Paul is, well... Ron Paul. Duncan Hunter is incredible, but not known enough, and as a Senator breaks my "no one without executive experience" rule. Fred Thompson ain't getting it done, and McCain is a non-starter. So that really leaves us with two honest to goodness choices. Honestly, a Mitt/Rudy ticket would be awesome, no matter who is at the top. I could see Rudy for 8 years, followed by Mitt for 8, easily. Or, the other way around.
SSS...
December 21, 2007 - 17:50 ET by Clear thinkerI don't care if he is a Mormon. I'm not voting for him because he's a RINO!
And him lying about the little stroll with MLK isn't helping any.
Rush Limbaugh stated that of the top 5 Republicans running for the presidency, only one was a true conservative. http://www.fred08.com/
}}---> I agree CT
December 21, 2007 - 18:36 ET by Cool ArrowDon't it just make you want to pull over to the side of the road and weep?
I ♣ My Seal
Ann Coulter: “Huckabee is
December 21, 2007 - 22:39 ET by PopularTechAnn Coulter: “Huckabee is the Republican Jimmy Carter” (Video) (4min)
Ann Coulter: "Huckabee Stupid and easily led" (Video) (2min)
Christian conservatives: Beware of Huckabee (WorldNetDaily)
Obama: Mike Huckabee is My Favorite GOP Candidate (Newsmax)
There’s a Huckabee Born Every Minute (Ann Coulter, Human Events)
"I guess Huckabee is one of those pro-sodomy, pro-gay marriage, pro-evolution evangelical Christians" - Ann Coulter
Vote for Obama '08
The Anti "Man-Made" Global Warming Resource
Pop Tech not so fast...
December 21, 2007 - 22:53 ET by Clear thinkerHave you seen this?
http://www.massresistance.org/docs/marriage/romney/record/RomneyLogCabinLetter.pdf
Mitt and Mike are two of the same in my book.
Rush Limbaugh stated that of the top 5 Republicans running for the presidency, only one was a true conservative. http://www.fred08.com/
}}---> PopTech
December 21, 2007 - 23:05 ET by Cool ArrowYou're boring the sh|t out of us with the same flood of links we've seen over and over.
I ♣ My Seal
Huckabee is a Religious Fascist
December 21, 2007 - 23:08 ET by PopularTechHuckabee And Ahmadinejad: Perfect Together?
Huck for AIDS Quarantine in 1992 (National Review Online)
Mike Huckabee to speak at strongly anti-Catholic preacher's church
Huckabee: Get Rid of Gitmo
The Anti "Man-Made" Global Warming Resource
Pop T...
December 21, 2007 - 23:10 ET by Clear thinkerDid you read my post above?
Rush Limbaugh stated that of the top 5 Republicans running for the presidency, only one was a true conservative. http://www.fred08.com/
Yes
December 21, 2007 - 23:15 ET by PopularTechThanking people for voting for you does not mean you endorse their life style. I am anti-gay marriage but I do not hate homosexuals.
Huckabee: Get Rid of Gitmo
The Anti "Man-Made" Global Warming Resource
Pop T...
December 21, 2007 - 23:22 ET by Clear thinkerUh... did you get past the first paragraph? Did you happen to notice the pandering? Very similar to what Huck does.
I think both of these guys are losers!
Rush Limbaugh stated that of the top 5 Republicans running for the presidency, only one was a true conservative. http://www.fred08.com/
Huckabee says get rid of Gitmo
December 21, 2007 - 23:41 ET by PopularTechMitt's record is much better than Huckabees, no taxes, smaller government, no pardons, state trooper enforcement of immigration law ect... I don't see the comparison. I have no problem with Fred either.
Oh and Mitt wants to double gitmo not get rid of it...
Huckabee: Get Rid of Gitmo
The Anti "Man-Made" Global Warming Resource
Popular Tech
December 21, 2007 - 23:11 ET by shawn228Ok popular Tech I never want to hear you ever say to Leon that he is obsessed with fat people, you look like you have quite the obsessed mind yourself.
Witnesses recall Romney-MLK march
December 22, 2007 - 02:17 ET by PopularTechWitnesses recall Romney-MLK march
Huckabee: Get Rid of Gitmo
The Anti "Man-Made" Global Warming Resource
PT
December 22, 2007 - 02:31 ET by shawn228Seems Romney has extremely selective memory
Mitt's Father apparently did march with MLK
December 22, 2007 - 02:43 ET by PopularTechThis proves Mitt's father did march with MLK. I don't think anyone is doubting Mitt's fathers support for civil rights.
A lot of these word games are really crap. Since to me it is what someone has actually done or supported that matters. I am well aware of all the issues but some people were questioning his father actually marching with MLK and this is significant.
Huckabee: Get Rid of Gitmo
The Anti "Man-Made" Global Warming Resource
PT
December 22, 2007 - 02:52 ET by shawn228The truth about that is up for debate. Meanwhile i'm more concerned about him saying he has been a hunter his whole life, then say he only hunted twice and he does not own a gun for hunting license.
Small detail, I know but something like that shows me he is a flip flopper and cannot be trusted.
This is such a weak issue to criticize Romney on
December 22, 2007 - 10:14 ET by PopularTechI looked this up and the man went hunting when he was 15 and killed live animals with real bullets dead. After you go hunting do you stop calling yourself a hunter? How many hunts qualifies you for the title? It is simply Romney getting the most out of what he has done. I thought I was going to find that he never ever hunted. What a joke, just because the man does not go out every week decked out in camo covered in deer piss with a compound bow does not mean he has not hunted. The concern is he anti-gun? The man recently shot quail at a reserve and signed up as a lifelong NRA member. Anyone truely anti-gun would never do that. I keep finding these weak ass things people bring up about Romney. But hey maybe we really need more life-long hard core hunters like Cheney? He really helped make the case for hunting. Show me what he wants to do with gun legislation, that is all that matters.
Flip-flopping would be saying he hunted when he never did.
Huckabee: Get Rid of Gitmo
The Anti "Man-Made" Global Warming Resource
My concern with a mormon
December 21, 2007 - 23:00 ET by ziplinedownMy concern with a mormon president is this;
The mormon religion, IMO do a lot to specifically tell people how to live their lives (EX; dont watch R rated moveies) where christians are more guided by core values.
Im not saying that we shouldnt vote for him because of this, and romney has even said that his church has no business in polotics, but i must ask the question, If for some reason he recieves contrading messages from his church and from his own political intelligence, which will he abandon?
zip...
December 21, 2007 - 23:03 ET by Clear thinkerCouldn't the same be said about Huckabee?
Rush Limbaugh stated that of the top 5 Republicans running for the presidency, only one was a true conservative. http://www.fred08.com/
}}---> Yes, Clear
December 21, 2007 - 23:10 ET by Cool ArrowWe can say anything we want. We're nothing but a bunch of disgruntled pseudointellectuals anyway, but we've gotta vent somewhere.
I ♣ My Seal
Cool...
December 21, 2007 - 23:12 ET by Clear thinkerI'm not defending either Mike or Mitt, they are both terrible choices.
Rush Limbaugh stated that of the top 5 Republicans running for the presidency, only one was a true conservative. http://www.fred08.com/
}}---> I know Clear
December 21, 2007 - 23:21 ET by Cool ArrowI'm not accusing you of supporting one just because you see faults in another. Their faults are mutually exclusive of each other.
I ♣ My Seal
Ziplinedown, out of all the Mormons who have held office, can
December 21, 2007 - 23:12 ET by RJyou provide any examples at all of them attempting to do that? You could begin with Romney's Massachusetts governorship.
BTW, I'm beginning to get REAL tired of these constant religious attacks. How about discussing the issues?
Oooops RJ...
December 21, 2007 - 23:15 ET by Clear thinkerHarry Reid is a Mormon, and he sucks!
I'm sure most Mormons think the same thing as I do about the coward.
Rush Limbaugh stated that of the top 5 Republicans running for the presidency, only one was a true conservative. http://www.fred08.com/
Of course Reid sucks, Clear
December 21, 2007 - 23:19 ET by RJ...but that wasn't the charge made. Ziplinedown said he thinks Romney would push his religious values more than someone from other religions.
"Harry Reid is a complete buffoon." -Lou Dobbs
}}---> So, RJ
December 21, 2007 - 23:25 ET by Cool ArrowYou don't have to answer this one truthfully, but what if Mitt were a Muslim with the same public record he sports now?
Would you still have that cozy feeling about him?
Yeah, right. Religion has nothing to do with our choices.
I ♣ My Seal
First, I don't have a "cozy" feeling about Romney
December 21, 2007 - 23:33 ET by RJ...as I said above.
Regarding your Muslim question, due to the way they're behaving in so many parts of the world, I don't think anyone, even many American Muslims, would feel particularly "cozy" about that.
And, heck, since you're comparing Mormonism to Islam, why not go all the way and compare Romney to Hitler?
My point is, this is the second time tonight that you make an outlandish comparison.
No, RJ
December 21, 2007 - 23:52 ET by Cool ArrowYou made the outlandish comparison.
You're defending as commonplace one religion and condemning another.
Just about 30 miles from here, in Eldorado, Tx. there's an enclave of fundamentalist Mormons founded by Warren Jeffs. This group follows the doctrines set forth by the original founders of Mormonism. They're still Mormons.
What you're saying, then, is that it's ok to lump all Muslims into the Radical Islam category, but don't you dare lump all Mormons into the Radical Mormonism bin.
So you've got it both ways.
So you have a problem with Muslims, but not Mormons? All you're doing is invalidating your own claim that we should not consider Romney's religion.
I ♣ My Seal
You're reinventing my words, Cool
December 22, 2007 - 00:13 ET by RJ...and blatantly attempting to reverse our arguments.
Even though there are many Islamic extremists around the world, I made a point to not "lump all Muslims into the Radical Islam category." I also made a point of not condemning Islam or tainting other Muslims.
On the other hand, you have "lumped" all Mormons together by using a small and widely disavowed sect to taint Mormonism and Romney. You say "they're still Mormons", as if their existence proves something negative about Mormonism." But that comparison is, of course, outlandish.
Careful, Cool. You're getting close to bigotry.
Thanks, RJ
December 22, 2007 - 00:24 ET by Cool ArrowBut all I did was point out that you quite easily lump all Muslims into the unelectable class, but you make distinctions among Mormons.
That's a weak argument you made.
But thanks for spinning out of control and jumping to the "bigot" nonsense.
Game, Set, Match
I ♣ My Seal
lol, Cool
December 22, 2007 - 00:35 ET by RJI always get a chuckle when folks declare themselves "winner." :^)
As I said, your attempt to reverse our actual arguments is pretty blatant. You used a small, non-violent sect to condemn all Mormons, while I only mentioned that the current behavior of many Muslims around the world would definitely keep people (including many American Muslims) from "feeling cozy."
(sarcastic remark removed by author)
P.S. I haven't yet called you a bigot because I don't think you've crossed that line thus far, but you should keep in mind that bigots never, ever, admit what they are.
No, RJ
December 22, 2007 - 00:51 ET by Cool ArrowIn case you don't know, "bigot" is one of those words flung too easily by people trapped in the snare of their own words.
It's shallow and hollow and without supporting evidence it derails the conversation.
If you want to deal with Muslims differently than Mormons or any other religion, that's your own (already stated) business.
I'll expose your hypocrisy, but I don't think I'll go all the way out there and call you a bigot.
I won't even warn you if I thinnk you're coming close to my definition of a "bigot"
So, I'll entertain one post from you supporting your claim I'm coming close to being a bigot and I'll have to insist it be a good point, or I'll just internalize my own opinion of you. Namecalling is not debate.
I ♣ My Seal
Cool, that's because you WERE getting close to bigotry
December 22, 2007 - 01:09 ET by RJJust because you consistently ignore my arguments, it doesn't mean they don't exist. Just because you label them shallow or hollow, it doesn't mean they are. However, it is shallow and hollow to characterize the arguments of others without proving it. You can start any time.
As I said, you tried to taint all Mormons with a small sect, when you know perfectly well that mainstream Momons disavow Wells. Sorry if it makes you squirm or upsets you, but that's coming close to bigotry.
"Internalize your opinion" of me? ;^> (sarcastic remark removed by author)
P.S. Gotta go. I'll have to check in tomorrow.
And you RJ
December 22, 2007 - 01:16 ET by Cool ArrowAnd you admitted you would have a problem electing Romney if he were a Muslim. Remember I stipulated "even if his public record were identical"
I could have pulled that "bigot" card on you early on in the conversation. It's an inflammatory term too easily flung from a position of weakness.
I ♣ My Seal
You're still trying to make a false comparison, Cool
December 22, 2007 - 10:52 ET by RJGive it any label you like, Cool, but it's indictive of your personal dislike for Mormonism that you compare that peaceful religion to a religion which has many members currently engaged in violence all around the globe. Can you identify any Mormons who are doing so? No? Then your original question is specious and irrelevant.
"Namecalling is not
December 22, 2007 - 01:13 ET by shawn228"Namecalling is not debate."
hmmmm
When I posted my euthansia post, you did not exactly use nice words. No offense of course, but i' m curious if there is some hypocricy here.
}}---> Hey, Shawnee
October 3, 2007 - 23:27 ET by Cool Arrow
I don't think the District Attorney will prosecute if you decide to euthanize yourself.
Knock yourself out.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE!~
}}---> Bad case - bad law
October 4, 2007 - 00:41 ET by Cool Arrow
Yup, it's the abortion debate all over again. Start with the most sad, pathetic test case imaginable, Baby Knauer, and
you've got them hooked. Read about him or you're not serious with this
discussion. Your reference to Million Dollar Baby puts you in certain
company with whom I'm hoping you won't feel comfortable.
Is that serious enough for you? Should I stick to sarcasm?
Lead on Adolph.
Just bumped this post to avoid any chance you "missed it", Shawn
}}---> That's Taliban Shawn
October 8, 2007 - 03:54 ET by Cool Arrow
}}---> This might help, Shawn
October 7, 2007 - 13:00 ET by Cool Arrow
Judas went out and hanged himself.
Go ye and do likewise.
~LYDSEXICS UNTIE!~
}}---> botched suicide
October 3, 2007 - 23:59 ET by Cool Arrow
I guess you'd be talking out of the other side of your mouth then.
~LYDSEXICS UNTIE!~
}}---> Thanks Shawn
December 22, 2007 - 01:21 ET by Cool ArrowI love memory lane, don't you?
I ♣ My Seal