Don't get me wrong. I like that mainstream media do take some efforts to report more religion and faith news items these days, including blogs like "The Seeker" at Chicago Tribune's home on the Web and the ongoing "On Faith" feature hosted by the Washington Post and Newsweek.
But just as I ripped "On Faith" for asking if good works were preferable to being saved, I have to admit this August 6 discussion starter by the Trib's Manya Brachear is a little clumsy as well:
Is church the right venue to talk about pornography? Is a small dose really that wrong?
This from the same blogger who asked, "Does sex bring you closer to God?"
I don't know what Bible she's reading, but her hymnal sounds like it was written by Nine Inch Nails.




















Editor at Large
Comments Policy
It's simple
August 7, 2007 - 10:36 ET by cvgbuckeyeWay to frequently, people ask religious questions when the answers are ALL in the Bible. The answers to everything are there.
If someone expresses a disbelief in the Bible, then I don't know where to go from there; since we have no common ground.
All I can do from there is to make a case for the truth of God's word; the Bible. If that is not successful, we must sometimes "shake the dust from our feet" and go on to someone else.
Sorry
"when the answers are ALL in the Bible"
August 7, 2007 - 11:12 ET by vrwc13Hadn't quite thought about it like that but you are right.
I think you could find answers to all our current issues: porn, abortion, global warming, socialism, etc.
Men stumble over the truth from time to time, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing happened. -Winston Churchill.
Don't apologize, cvg.
August 7, 2007 - 13:22 ET by Dad GummitNever apologize for being right. Just remember Ecclesiastes 10:2 "A wise man's heart inclines him to the right, but the heart of a fool to the left" Speaks volumes today, doesn't it?
"If you don't read a newspaper, you are uninformed. If you do read a newspaper, you are mis-informed."-Mark Twain
Yes we discuss porn all the
August 7, 2007 - 10:39 ET by TruthMongerYes we discuss porn all the time - its just one of many major problems in the church - and the Apostle Paul even dealt with these things in Corinthians...
Its never healthy - even "just a little bit" but neither is going to the casino "once in a while" or the rampant materialism of the American culture, etc, etc, etc...
Agree
August 7, 2007 - 12:08 ET by cvgbuckeyeTruthMonger: You are correct. Our Senior Pastor has often told the true story of a man that kept a rattlesnake in a cage in his house. Every now and then he would take out that snake and fancy himself as a snake charmer. He would then kiss that snake on the head.
You guessed it. One day that snake bit him right in the face and it almost killed him; it did disfigure his face due to nerve damage which the doctors were only able to partially repair.
But, I'm sure you didn't guess this: Every now and then, he still does it.
Tell you anything?
cvg excellent point - tells
August 7, 2007 - 12:34 ET by TruthMongercvg excellent point - tells me all kinds of things yes, thanks:)
Tells me he is retarded
August 7, 2007 - 12:44 ET by Six String SpiffSounds like he will be rewarded by Darwin soon. And?
The American Revolution Continued
Sounds like he's doing it
August 7, 2007 - 12:51 ET by balboaSounds like he's doing it wrong.
Sounds like Darwin will
August 7, 2007 - 13:16 ET by TruthMongerSounds like Darwin will reward bal and spiff soon as well...
Rev 3:22 (NIV) "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."
"Sounds like Darwin will reward bal and spiff soon as well... "
August 7, 2007 - 13:31 ET by vrwc13but it's not like we haven't warned them...sigh. : (
Men stumble over the truth from time to time, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing happened. -Winston Churchill.
Respect for TM
August 7, 2007 - 14:48 ET by Six String Spiff= NONE now Mr. holier than thou. CRAM IT
The American Revolution Continued
TM, dust shaken' time? v
August 7, 2007 - 15:16 ET by vrwc13TM, dust shaken' time?
v
vr
August 7, 2007 - 15:36 ET by TruthMongervr - im seeing progress here myself - so I'm hanging a while longer:) - and you?
TM - trouble with that T-shirt hottie though...
August 7, 2007 - 15:46 ET by vrwc13TM - trouble with that T-shirt hottie though...
Yeah been hanging tough on this thread, but keeping in mind when it's "dust shaken" time. But man, every time I post a comment, "she" shows up on the right. Geez, what do I have to do, tape a picture of my wife over that part of the screen? I don't find it that it's there by chance, considering today's "hottie" topic.
v
p.s. progress is good - sow, water, reap, sow, water, reap...it goes on...
vr
August 7, 2007 - 15:56 ET by TruthMongershe's astoundingly beautiful - nothing wrong with seeing that...
just don't think about how incredibly fantastic and earth-shattering the sex would be and you'll be just fine...
it's EASY!
Finally Figured It Out
August 7, 2007 - 23:15 ET by MBombardierI was totally mystified as to the "hottie" to which you all refer until I realized--it's my porn filter working! So....since I can't see her, wherever she is, she must fit the definition of porn my internet content filter uses. That's actually somewhat amusing in a weird sort of way.
Thump Thump
August 8, 2007 - 06:51 ET by Six String SpiffClose your mind tightly. You don't want to have a hint of a little tummy showing. You might go to hell. I'm glad I don't live that way.
The American Revolution Continued
Ad Filter ?
August 8, 2007 - 06:54 ET by Free StinkerPorn filter? Sound more like a GREAT ad blocker!
What's the name of this fine product? ;-)
Fred Thompson and Ann Coulter walk into a bar. The bar is instantly destroyed because that much awesome cannot be contained in one building.
Content Filter
August 8, 2007 - 09:24 ET by MBombardierIt's Net Nanny 5.5, believe it or not. It was recently purchased by Content Watch, which is the filter many businesses use. I don't even notice it working (obviously) like previous products I have tried. It was recommended by an wonderful sexual addiction counselor I know.
You don't want to have a hint of a little tummy showing. 6SSpiff
August 8, 2007 - 08:26 ET by vrwc13" Close your mind tightly. You don't want to have a hint of a little tummy showing. You might go to hell. I'm glad I don't live that way."
Spiff, you don't go to hell for what you do, looking at tummys etc, one goes for the one thing they do not do. That one thing is accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.
"But first and foremost comes the evangelical message that we are sinners incapable and unwilling on our own to live up to God's holy standard and Christ is the only atoning sacrifice for our sin. That's the message. The (world) media confuse it to think that we preach moral restraint and good works as a means to salvation, rather than fruit thereof." Ken Shepherd
Ah, but as the old saynig goes...
August 8, 2007 - 10:47 ET by TheDeuceThe grass may look greener on the other side of that thar fence, but it still needs fertilizin'.
I had a poster in my college dorm, hot chick in a bikini, that had something to this affect underneath; "Just remember, even she's got a guy sitting at home who is sick of her shit from time to time."
Was the best-looking person
August 8, 2007 - 10:57 ET by TheDeuceWas the best-looking person you ever had sex with the one who was best at it?
I gotta admit, some of the best sex I ever had was not with the prom queen, though that sex was memorable. All sex at that age tended to be, as little as there was at the time with another person in the room with me when it took place, if you know what I'm saying...and I think you do.
Yes, shake your dust so all
August 7, 2007 - 15:59 ET by balboaYes, shake your dust so all us sinners can start sneezing.
bal you funny:)
August 7, 2007 - 16:07 ET by TruthMongerlol ya damn heathen!
Can't remember the
August 7, 2007 - 13:24 ET by Dad GummitCan't remember the specific Proverb that says "As a dog returns to his own vomit so a fool returns to his folly."
"If you don't read a newspaper, you are uninformed. If you do read a newspaper, you are mis-informed."-Mark Twain
2 Peter
August 7, 2007 - 14:43 ET by dscott2 Peter 2:21-22 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=68&chapter=2&verse=21&end_verse=22&version=31&context=context
Prov. 26:11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Prov.%2026:11;&version=31;
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. Marcus Aurelius
This whole tact is about
August 7, 2007 - 10:49 ET by dscottThis whole tact is about splitting off an individual aspect of behavior from moral responsibility (church/faith purview) in public life. The idea here is to peel off every behavior or life activity until your participation at Church or faith is meaningless to the world around you. A person's faith or belief system influences and dictates how they approach and handle life, anyone who says different is being deceptive or disingenuous. I won't speak for other religions, as a Christian if your faith does not consistently reflect your works then you aren't a Christian, period. We are not talking about isolated failings from consistency, we are talking about practicing what you preach. Christianity is not some academic or metaphysical exercise. This is the same baloney about separating Church and State.
This tactic is nothing new: Abortion, homosexuality, politics, government job, etc. We should not be surprised at the behavior of a non religious person who does not comprehend the relevance of faith to their life. It just means they need to get saved.
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. Marcus Aurelius
What does it matter what
August 7, 2007 - 10:54 ET by Six String SpiffWhat does it matter what people watch in their own homes?
The American Revolution Continued
Well I've heard that
August 7, 2007 - 10:58 ET by TruthMongerWell I've heard that watching child porn at home is a crime...not sure why...what do you think?
Because
August 7, 2007 - 11:08 ET by ChaitealoverAs was said in the early days of computers:
"Garbage in, garbage out"
Of course not child porn
August 7, 2007 - 11:36 ET by Six String SpiffYou don't seriously believe I am defending kiddie porn?
The American Revolution Continued
to many people it's ok - so
August 7, 2007 - 11:45 ET by TruthMongerto many people it's ok - so are you fine with trying to push your morals on them but not fine with me pushing my morals against all porn on you:)? Just wondering how that works with you...
TruthMonger
August 7, 2007 - 11:57 ET by Six String SpiffWhat morals have I pushed? I just said I wasn't talking about kiddie porn. If somebody wants to engage with a child, that isn't just immoral, its sick and worthy of life detention and/or death.
The American Revolution Continued
morals you are
August 7, 2007 - 12:03 ET by TruthMongermorals you are pushing:
If somebody wants to engage with a child, that isn't just immoral, its sick and worthy of life detention and/or death.
that is how i see all porn
so what's the difference between you and I here?
CHILD My mic MUST be broken....
August 7, 2007 - 12:50 ET by Six String SpiffDefenseless child versus consenting adults. Nice to know you would kill me for viewing porn. Wow. I am all for killing terrorists, but not porn viewers, and pot smokers. There is obviously something wrong with an individual viewing child porn. The same thing that's wrong with shooting somebody. One party is not given a chance.
As an aside, what about hunting for pleasure? Do you eat all of your kills? If not, are you immoral?
The American Revolution Continued
ah yes as the argument
August 7, 2007 - 13:03 ET by TruthMongerah yes as the argument crumbles in comes the rhetoric
yes i want to kill you (sigh)
what is it about age that protects you from exploit exactly - are we not all defenseless against sexual perversion - are not you and i case in point here?
is my mic on? can anyone else hear me?
What is it about age? Well,
August 7, 2007 - 13:07 ET by balboaWhat is it about age? Well, wisdom, knowledge, self-awareness.
Surely you don't think you have the same sensibilities as a 9-year-old? Or...DO YOU. (gasp!) ;-)
correct me if im wrong bal
August 7, 2007 - 13:18 ET by TruthMongerso I'm 17 years and 11 months - I am defenseless and exploitable
in 2 months i am impervious to all harm
(gasp)
correct me if im wrong bal
How old are you bal - you sound about 9 to me so far...
Zing! 18 is a general
August 7, 2007 - 14:47 ET by balboaZing!
18 is a general mark. For others it comes sooner, for others it comes later. 18 is safe.
and 18 means absolutely
August 7, 2007 - 14:49 ET by TruthMongerand 18 means absolutely nothing in terms of vulnerability or morality - for everyone - regardless of brain power...
Yes it does. It means by
August 7, 2007 - 14:54 ET by balboaYes it does. It means by that time you should be able to take care of yourself, be responsible for yourself, which is why you can vote, fight in a war, etc.
"should" being the operative
August 7, 2007 - 15:16 ET by TruthMonger"should" being the operative word here:)
OR.... Suffer the consequences
August 7, 2007 - 15:24 ET by Six String SpiffThe American Revolution Continued
Rhetoric?
August 7, 2007 - 15:09 ET by Six String SpiffHow is that rhetoric? You specifically said you think my choice of punishment should cover ALL PORN. So how about that hunting question? I know a lot of people here hunt defenseless animals, and not all get consumed. What's God's moral opinion on that? I own many guns. Inanimate objects are all of my targets. By your 'inadvertant advocation' argument you are doing the same by shooting animals. Where does it stop? Won't you someday be curious as to what shooting a human would feel like? Of course not because most people have self control and wont engage in murder.
Rhetoric.... please
The American Revolution Continued
more rhetoric
August 7, 2007 - 15:40 ET by TruthMongeryes how wrong i was - thanks
the wages of sin is death but i ain't doing the killing my friend - I leave that up to the allmighty
and what does God think of killing animals for fun?
ask him yourself i guess - i ain't got a clue:)
I don't think He likes it one bit
Maybe because children were
August 7, 2007 - 11:42 ET by general companyMaybe because children were exploited/abused to make it !!
what about all the young
August 7, 2007 - 11:46 ET by TruthMongerwhat about all the young adults who are exploited and then discarded to make the rest of the porn out there? any concerns for them at all?
2 Words
August 7, 2007 - 12:00 ET by Six String SpiffConsenting adults. I believe this is all done in contracts.
The American Revolution Continued
so once you're 18 that
August 7, 2007 - 12:04 ET by TruthMongerso once you're 18 that makes you un-exploitable
that's a new one on me
No...
August 7, 2007 - 12:52 ET by Six String SpiffWhen you are 18, it's up to your own dumbass not to engage in those things.
The American Revolution Continued
18 - the "magical" age - for
August 7, 2007 - 13:05 ET by TruthMonger18 - the "magical" age - for some unknown reason...
Is this thing on?
August 7, 2007 - 11:59 ET by Six String SpiffHello? Is this thing on? I am not talking about child pornography. I don't believe anybody here brought up CP and defended it, so move back to legal porn.
The American Revolution Continued
thanks to enablers like you
August 7, 2007 - 12:06 ET by TruthMongerthanks to enablers like you cp will be legal soon - you can read my posts as well correct? Is my PC on?
My personal experience
August 7, 2007 - 12:12 ET by sarcasmoMy personal experience tells me that "cp" isn't as important to the government as certain political agendas...
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.
interesting - yes cp is not
August 7, 2007 - 12:17 ET by TruthMongerinteresting - yes cp is not exactly a major concern that's for sure
Child porn will not be legal....
August 7, 2007 - 12:56 ET by Six String SpiffCP will never be legal. That is just rediculous. Can we get off of CP and back onto LEGAL porn? There must be a difference if CP gets brought up every single time. It must be different, otherwie it would not get the attention it is getting right now. Who started the whole kiddie porn topic anyway?
The American Revolution Continued
You are correct.
August 7, 2007 - 13:02 ET by balboaYou are correct.
gay marriage will never be
August 7, 2007 - 13:06 ET by TruthMongergay marriage will never be legal - that is just ridiculous...
-anonymous quote circa 1983
People voting Arnold
August 7, 2007 - 13:10 ET by balboaPeople voting Arnold Schwarzenegger in as governor, that's ridiculous.
1999, approx.
Arnold Schwarzenegger in as
August 7, 2007 - 15:29 ET by MightyMouthArnold Schwarzenegger is a governor?!?!
Next you'll be telling me he's a Republican!
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
Next up...legal beastiality
August 7, 2007 - 13:10 ET by Clear thinkerNext up...legal beastiality coming to a town near you.
Get Email updates from Fred http://socialnet.imwithfred.com/email_alert_july_26.html
And DOWN the slope we go!
August 7, 2007 - 13:12 ET by balboaAnd DOWN the slope we go!
or floating down
August 7, 2007 - 13:19 ET by TruthMongeror floating down denial!
it aint just a river in egypt anymore:).
beastiality
August 7, 2007 - 15:15 ET by Six String SpiffDo you know ANYBODY who doesn't immediately denounce the individual caught with CP, or bangin a sheep? Let's be real here.
The American Revolution Continued
that's how it used to be
August 7, 2007 - 15:18 ET by TruthMongerthat's how it used to be with your so-called "regular" porn too
so what the hell happened?
I said legal, not regular.
August 7, 2007 - 15:32 ET by Six String SpiffPeople became less prudish and realized it's only nature. I don't know. I guess the envelope has to be pushed until there is more regulation, which is inevitable. Why was the drinking age pushed up?
The American Revolution Continued
child porn prudes:(
August 7, 2007 - 15:42 ET by TruthMongerso when do you hypocritical people stop being prudes about cp? can you give me a time frame on it?
Probably about the time the
August 7, 2007 - 15:57 ET by balboaProbably about the time the Earth starts spinning in the other direction...
Funny, I heard that was
August 7, 2007 - 15:59 ET by MightyMouthFunny, I heard that was going to happen if Hillary became president. What a cowinkydink.
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
Oh, yes, if HRC is elected,
August 7, 2007 - 16:01 ET by balboaOh, yes, if HRC is elected, the river's will turn to blood, people will be having sex with goats in the streets.
AND LOVING IT!! --Maxwell
August 7, 2007 - 16:03 ET by MightyMouthAND LOVING IT!!
--Maxwell Smart.
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
Truthbetold
August 7, 2007 - 16:05 ET by Six String SpiffWhat are you talking about? Saying CP wil lbe legal is like say murder will be legal. I think CP is rape. Rape and murderers need to die. I can't tell you what other people will think, but I highly doubt CP will be voted on and legalized. Would you get a grip?
The American Revolution Continued
help bal!
August 7, 2007 - 16:10 ET by TruthMongercan anyone here plese lend me a grip - bal maybe?
hey get off that goat bal!
Sorry, getting a grip, much
August 7, 2007 - 16:12 ET by balboaSorry, getting a grip, much like getting a clue and self-realization, can only be achieved through self-induced profound revelations of the true nature of the world. As Bagger Vance said, everyone has one true swing, and they alone must find it.
(double take) (awe struck
August 7, 2007 - 16:23 ET by TruthMonger(double take)
(awe struck by another's wisdom - its fun! try it)
Saying CP wil lbe legal is
August 7, 2007 - 16:10 ET by balboaSaying CP wil lbe legal is like say murder will be legal.
Well, we ARE at war you know.
there you go - see spiff?1
August 7, 2007 - 16:12 ET by TruthMongerthere you go - see spiff?!
TM
August 8, 2007 - 07:00 ET by Six String SpiffGee Truth... Gave up arguing and started with the chickles eh? Balboa and I have made some very good points which you chose to ignore for whatever reason. I highly suspect it is because you 'found' somebody. ...or thing
The American Revolution Continued
yah you won all
August 8, 2007 - 13:29 ET by TruthMongeryah you won all right
legend in your own mind
War, Murder, and Balboa.
August 8, 2007 - 07:05 ET by Six String SpiffBalboa, I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not. I am a proponent for mowing down the filth known as the al Qaeda insurgents in Iraq. I believe that is self defense. However, thinking back to the DC sniper shootings, those people were just insane and deserved to die. Very slowly. You do see a difference here, right?
The American Revolution Continued
Being sarcastic. :-)
August 8, 2007 - 10:59 ET by balboaBeing sarcastic. :-)
Cool
August 8, 2007 - 12:24 ET by Six String SpiffThe American Revolution Continued
Same argument has been made
August 8, 2007 - 10:54 ET by TheDeuceSame argument has been made for prostitution, marijuana, abortion, etc, etc...
Conservatives noted the same issues when leftists argued for no-fault divorces. The right, correctly, argued that legalizing no-fault divorces would show an enormous increase in marriages being broken up. Little did even their argument see the sheer volume of societal problems that it caused in its wake. Some states make divorces as simple as handing back your class ring was in high school.
You guys are arguing a slippery slope. Every inch ever given was immediately questioned as 'prudish' and looked beyond. That's a fact.
Are you sure?
August 7, 2007 - 15:41 ET by sarcasmoAre you sure? How did Hugh Hefner make a huge fortune, if not for "regular" soft-core porn in Playboy? People feel differently about the idea of a depiction of sex between consenting adults than they do about depictions the sexual exploitation of kids by adults, and rightly so. Children's brains are different, not just their bodies.
I have seen the regular porn business, and it's not anything like the pure evil of exploiting children, even if it's not everyone's (or really my) cup of tea. Just the titles of this stuff should constitute proof that these people often have a pretty good sense of humor. Prepare (perhaps with your own sense of humor, if not logic and history) to hear something politically-incorrect:
Porn is also the only reason you ever saw a high speed internet, a VCR, or a DVD, because the porn business (go to their immense conventions in Vegas if you doubt me) is always at the forefront of early-adopter high technology. We're talking about the power of free enterprise, and it's quite impressive at times (beyond the girls' good looks) what that can accomplish in a free & highly-competitive marketplace.
I very much wish I could say all I knew about this subject of actually-stopping child-porn. It's indeed a scandal of evil of a sort even beyond what you might see on "Dateline NBC" with the various predator guys, but I can't at this time. :( I can say the news media often tend towards laziness, cluelessness & emotion over fact on this issue. The issue of actually stopping child porn requires real journalism -- a rare commodity these days...
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.
I have seen the regular
August 7, 2007 - 15:45 ET by TruthMongerI have seen the regular porn business, and it's not anything like the pure evil of exploiting children
You ain't seen the porn biz, sarc...
Here's a nice tame one for ya (warning - dispicable "regular porn" images):
TM I 'd get that link off if I were you
August 7, 2007 - 16:09 ET by Six String SpiffMastheads will remove it and maybe you
The American Revolution Continued
just let em try:)
August 7, 2007 - 16:13 ET by TruthMongerjust let em try:)
its just good ol regular porn - no big deal
looks like they got it
August 7, 2007 - 16:40 ET by TruthMongerlooks like they got it indeed
FYI free speech lovers it was a link to a rape porn site - and there's plenty more "regular" porn where that came from - nothing disgusting like cp - just good ol wholesome incest, beastiality, S&M, mutilation, exploited drunk girls, girls doing porn for rent money, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc...
Truthmonger's paintbrush SPIFF back for more
August 8, 2007 - 07:17 ET by Six String SpiffAh, I see TM has broken out the Aristotelian paintbrush.
A small number of sickos enjoy Rape, Bestiality, etc.. Those things can be found on very few porn websites. Therefore, all porn viewers must enjoy those things.
WRONG.
Question:
In what name has MILLIONS of people been killed under?
Answer:
Religion. I don't go around saying all religion is bad. As I have stated numerous times on this very thread.
The American Revolution Continued
Q: In what name has MILLIONS of people been killed under?
August 8, 2007 - 07:24 ET by Free StinkerA: Atheism. Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Hitler . . .
and porn
August 8, 2007 - 13:31 ET by TruthMongerand porn
TM
August 8, 2007 - 13:39 ET by Six String SpiffNow you aer just being rediculous, and making things up. i see you are not engaged in the porndebate uch today? Is your hand sore?
The American Revolution Continued
spiff i still have one more
August 8, 2007 - 13:50 ET by TruthMongerspiff i still have one more hand available no problem:)
you still want another beating today? fine - what's yer question now
TM You have not beaten me. On the contrary
August 8, 2007 - 13:54 ET by Six String SpiffI'm sorry, as far as I was concerned, you had not proved a damned thing to me except your love for God. Which is great. More power to you. Just don't try and denounce all porn viewers as the scum tha enjoy CP, and other vile concepts. Just don't, because you won't win.
The American Revolution Continued
spiff its already done,
August 8, 2007 - 14:02 ET by TruthMongerspiff its already done, you're the one trying to differentiate the two here, and i could even agree with you that they are different but that would only make us both delusional then - not what i call progress
porn is porn is porn
from a marketing perspective cp is different, yes
but from a scum evil perspective its nada
reality is stubborn and it just wont budge - i know - i've tried to move it, too
Nice to meet you TM. I'm scum.
August 8, 2007 - 14:10 ET by Six String SpiffNice to meet you TM. I'm scum. And here is my Wife, Evil.
The American Revolution Continued
i'm scum too:) i thought
August 8, 2007 - 14:16 ET by TruthMongeri'm scum too:)
i thought you looked familar
so you know any good thumbs sites?
I used to be scum, my wife evil.
August 8, 2007 - 14:16 ET by vrwc13I used to be scum, my wife evil. We still fall short, but our sin is forgiven. We hope that can happen for you and your wife too! We love ya man.
v
Thanks Fellas
August 8, 2007 - 15:21 ET by Six String SpiffWell, I am glad you guys have hope for me. It's hard being a skeptic of God in todays world. TM, I admire your dedication and devotion. I wish Gods existence could be proven to me. That is not meant to inflame anybody here. I haven't a clue what comes in the after-life, but I have made my descision (for now) to choose the thing that makes most sense to me. That being my own hybrid faith consisting of Karma, and being a good person. I know I have mouthed off to some of you regarding this topic, and I apologize. I was actually 'saved' when I was 14... It was with a youth group I used to belong to. I have since visited some ZEN centers, and I can say they are some of the most accepting, free of judgement people I have ever met. Not to mention the least violent. We agree to disagree on the CP front. I'm going to go play darts now. You guys have a good night.
The American Revolution Continued
Praying for ya Spiff...
August 8, 2007 - 15:39 ET by vrwc13I was "confirmed" at 14, but it was not the "real deal" for me. Went on to TM, est, Rosicrucians, etc. Took 16 years of secular living, and a few of God's 2x4's to finally get me to see the Light. Been making it up in the last 16 years though. Got a great wife and 6 kids, whom all love the Lord.
Hope your darts land you a "REDEEMER"
v
Free... thats wrong
August 8, 2007 - 13:43 ET by Six String SpiffAtheism has not done NEARLY as much damage as religion has done. I am really growing tired of these Holy wars of late. Why can't riligious folks just keep on a walkn when they see a 'sinner'? What happened to acceptance? All I see from the posters here as of late is nothing but a bunch of "You better or else.."
The American Revolution Continued
spiff its cuz we luy
August 8, 2007 - 13:54 ET by TruthMongerspiff its cuz we luy ya
you obviously need rescue
so can i 911 the big JC for you yet:)?
or would you still like to wait a bit
You honestly think that,
August 8, 2007 - 14:00 ET by dscottYou honestly think that, obviously you haven't done the math. The death tally below doesn't include Hilter's slaughter of well over 6 million people, again not by war but of brutal genocide. Don't give me the carnard that Hitler was a Christian or any such thing, he was against Christianity as well as Judiaism, if you read some of his writings, and I have, you would know what evil truly is.
Nearly 100 million deaths. Not casualties of war, but civilian slaughter. Deaths in gulags and concentration camps. Deaths from a bullet to the head. Most of all, deaths by starvation - the result either of planned famines, meted out as punishment to internal foes (as in Stalin's USSR), or unintended consequences of central policy http://www.jpfo.org/wolfe-blackbook.htm
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. Marcus Aurelius
HItler no Christian
August 8, 2007 - 14:19 ET by Six String SpiffOk ok ok... thats it! I never said Hitler was Christian. I was trying to prove a point regarding deaths related to the porn industry. Which is, suffice to say, a very small amount. I have been on this site long enough for people to not assume that rediculousness of me. Good freakin grief.
NEVERMIND
The American Revolution Continued
Atheism has not done
August 8, 2007 - 14:28 ET by dscottAtheism has not done NEARLY as much damage as religion has done.
So I take it you concede the point that Atheism has in fact done more damage than religion? Furthermore, you have to reach back a few hundred years to get to the Spanish Inquistion which was pretty much the last of the abuses of those who used Christianity for their own purposes of power. Now I might begin to shuffle a little with Islamofascism on that you got me.
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. Marcus Aurelius
Dscott
August 8, 2007 - 15:23 ET by Six String SpiffYes, I concede being wrong about that. I was tryign to compare it only with pornography industry.
The American Revolution Continued
Point taken. BTW-this is
August 8, 2007 - 15:55 ET by dscottPoint taken. BTW-this is the difference between a Libertarian and a Liberal, Liberals don't concede anything but just lay on more double talk and evasions. I much prefer to discuss issues with Libertarians, but they are still annoying.
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. Marcus Aurelius
Thanks...?
August 9, 2007 - 09:37 ET by Six String SpiffIs that a compliment?
The American Revolution Continued
yeap, to all
August 9, 2007 - 09:47 ET by dscottyeap, to all Libertarians.
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. Marcus Aurelius
Thanks dscott, you bible
August 9, 2007 - 14:56 ET by BinxlyThanks dscott, you bible bashing, closed minded, right-wing 'my way or the highway' types aren't so bad yourself ;)
who knows dscott
August 8, 2007 - 14:34 ET by exLibWho knows how many millions of Chrisitans have been killed over the centuries for just being Christians.
The Romans killed 1000's alone.
I think six string's point
August 9, 2007 - 14:55 ET by BinxlyI think six string's point is that violence caused by those who act out on others not willing to conform is responsible for much more death and murder than communities where acceptance of all walks of life is followed. Sure, Hitler wasn't a christian, but he demanded conformity. Back in the dark ages (and even today in some religions) religion demanded conformity or you were cast out, or worse, killed. He *is* wrong that these deaths even in the case of religious persecution were done in the name of religion. God never ordered his people to mow down those who didn't conform. It wasnt religion that set the wheels in motion for the genocide of this world, it was intolerance.
How about the ACLU Spiff...
August 8, 2007 - 13:40 ET by The Wicked ConservativeHow about the ACLU Spiff... They're pretty mum about this perv. It kind of makes you wonder if his habits influenced his direction as mast head of the ACLU in VA. Yet they remain MUM!!! This perversion of America is progressive and it will continue to worsen. Ever heard of NAMBLA? WTF is that? Every member should be monitored and beaten if they approach a school. Yet the ACLU will fight for their right to exist as an organisation.
You can't save the Earth unless You're willing to make other people sacrifice. Dogbert the Green Consultant summing up the elite left.
The ACLU is about as useful as the UN
August 8, 2007 - 13:46 ET by Six String SpiffThe ACLU used to be a reputable group, but they slid off the edge a long time ago. They take things WAY too far, and defend everything under the sun. The are the party of no responsibitlity, and "You can sue for that.". Does that answer your question?
The American Revolution Continued
NAMBLA is also sick and twisted
August 8, 2007 - 13:50 ET by Six String SpiffThe acronym NAMBLA is probably the closest thing that will induce vomiting by merely mentioning. I AM NOT FOR CP!! Why is this so hard to understand?
The American Revolution Continued
Spiff, you're battling the
August 8, 2007 - 13:53 ET by balboaSpiff, you're battling the slippery slope, and too many people want to go straight from "sexual content" to "child pornography and pig-humping". It's an uphill battle.
yes we want to go there -
August 8, 2007 - 13:56 ET by TruthMongeryes we want to go there - otherwise it certainly won't happen on its own, no possible way for sure, etc
TM doesn't make sense
August 8, 2007 - 14:31 ET by Six String SpiffTM can you please speak in sentences so I can understand what you are saying? You are reaching the point of rambling. I don't know how you were brought up. But if I want to look at a pair of t*ts that aren'y my Wife's, I will. With her permission too. I hardly do because my Wife is so very satisying to look at, but I forgot you said that lusting for your own spouse is sinful too. That is just retarded.
The American Revolution Continued
OK man - I'll see what I
August 8, 2007 - 14:35 ET by TruthMongerOK man - I'll see what I can do...
Lust is not respectful of your spouse. Please respect your spouse.
Sexual desire for your spouse is fine however - so please feel free to run with that...
so how did i do there?
TM, I respect you to a great
August 9, 2007 - 15:21 ET by BinxlyTM, I respect you to a great extreme, but this is where humans must exhibit common sense. Porn is not child pornography. People turned on by such are not turned on by 'normal' sexual cues, such as breasts turn on most men and how, well, an 'endowed' man turns on a woman. Children possess neither of these. For them, its about the robbing of innocence, the idea that they ARE doing something horrendous and utterly blasphemous in all religions, even the secular-progressives. It's not smart to restrict something as (usually) harmless as porn because some creepoids take it to an extreme. After all, Im all for the second amendment, people SHOULD have guns, keeps our government scared of us just how they should be, but, when someone goes off and abuses this privledge, killing innocents, causing havok, basicaly being the 'fringe' much like cp is to regular porn, is the correct solution to just band weapons all together?
Hey binx! Great stuff -
August 9, 2007 - 15:45 ET by TruthMongerHey binx!
Great stuff - here's my thoughts...
All porn is the same in terms of sin - God does not have a sliding scale, an "order of magnitude" in terms of better or worse sin...
But even without God in the equation - we can talk about objects and class - porn being the major class in question here, and then subclasses of porn such as child, rape, beastiality, incest, etc, etc...
And many of you have a thumbs up or thumbs down on certain subclasses of porn based on your personal preferences about what is acceptable there or not. No one's personal preference is better than anyone else in the world of relativity you speak of - no person can have more moral authority than another. "Common sense" is an illusion, but for the sake of argument if it is not, then what about the rights of the CP-lover's minority gauranteed by our Constitution?
To many people CP is just fine. To you it is not. Right now you wish to push your values on them but then hypocritically take exception to me trying to push mine on you.
Many CP kids even down to the age of 3 think CP is fun - they really do - I am not making this up. And age has nothing to do with exploitation. All porn participants are being exploited regardless of age, regardless of whether they do it willingly or against their will. It is all equally evil and damaging to all parties. It is never harmless - you may have become numb to that but that does not alter that facts unfortunately...
As the law and your opinion stands right now, if I am 17 yrs and 11 months old I am mentally unable to willingly choose to participate in porn - my "innocence would be robbed," but 32 days later in a puff of magic I would be just fine - no innocence lost. That's a ridiculous notion that defies reasonable logic.
Guns don't kill people any more than computers produce porn - banning computers will not ban porn.
Looking forward to your thoughts on any of this...
How's Ashlee doing?
haha good stuff from you as
August 9, 2007 - 16:10 ET by Binxlyhaha good stuff from you as well, as always. I definately understand what your point is and I do agree, there is no 'scale of decency for porn' in the Bible. That's definately true. Also good comment on the guns/computer reference, again, I guess Im with egg on my face since much like gun violence, its not computers making porn, its 'people.' Perhaps I'm just defending a rather secular view of porn, but, to me, I'd rather have something like porn available to sexually overactive people (usually males) whom without porn may cause such acts as rape or forcing themselves onto women who ARE interested just perhaps not to *that* degree. Also you're right, that's me enforcing my morals that a child is wrong in porn but in the same stroke claiming an emotionally unstable girl or man in porn is somehow magically less victimized by the act. Trust me, if porn was gone, I'd miss it to a degree, but I'd be over it within a week, seriously. Then again, Im basically as disinterested in sex as anyone I know, its just me. Again though, great points, I can definately see where you are comming from.
As for Ashlee I assume she's good, I haven't talked to her since friday, but Im sure she'd appreciate knowing people care enough to ask! :) If Im not back tonight have a good night TM.
Spiff, no one is accusing
August 8, 2007 - 13:55 ET by The Wicked ConservativeSpiff, no one is accusing you of being pro CP. We're trying to illustrate why acceptance of porn is bad. Once on generation accepts it it will be commonplace to the next. Then it will progress to the next level. You try to claim people will finally "get enough" and be satisfied but man's history and behavior patterns would speak otherwise.
You can't save the Earth unless You're willing to make other people sacrifice. Dogbert the Green Consultant summing up the elite left.
Exactly TWC
August 8, 2007 - 14:11 ET by florida_chadExactly TWC
Self Control
August 8, 2007 - 14:26 ET by Six String SpiffSelf control plays a major part. No, I am not claiming people will "get enough". If that were the case, the NORMAL porn (as in hetero sexual with adults) would go bankrupt. It os up to the family to put restrictions in place. Not the government with it's hand being forced by religion.
The American Revolution Continued
It is up to the family to put restrictions in place.
August 8, 2007 - 14:34 ET by vrwc13Spiff, how do I control billboards, tv ads, and storefront ads? Keep them at home? We already homeschool. What's next homeliving/homeshopping/homediningout/homevacations?
Yeah, logic, reason, facts play less of a role now in the way we make decisions in America. – Al Gore
You know vrwc
August 8, 2007 - 14:49 ET by exLibI used to say the same things until I had twins.
You just can't watch them 24/7 nor would you want to.
Gay marriage
August 7, 2007 - 15:13 ET by Six String SpiffI don't believe in gay marriage. Their marriage is not the same as mine. That is my opinion.
The American Revolution Continued
Where you watch, i.e. in
August 7, 2007 - 11:38 ET by dscottWhere you watch, i.e. in your home is not the question, or anywhere else for that matter, it's what you watch, the content. Let me put this as simple as I can make it: If the state of one's morality doesn't see porn as an issue, then clearly that person either has no faith or their faith is so shallow as to be meaningless (carnal believer). Don't confuse temptation with action, everyone is tempted but not everyone acts upon that temptation.
BTW-child porn is probably the most destructive behavior one can indulge in, as it requires the participation of a child to be debased, it doesn't matter if you do not take the picture or have brought the child to the place to be debased. The people who generate this evil crap do so for profit motive, if not for their own vile motive against the child, therefore if you didn't buy it or provide the market, they would be harming few if any children. Make no mistake, debasing a child harms the child psychologically forever... I understand some Libertarians misunderstand this point as a matter of free exercise of one's own passions (such as NAMBLA type organizations or prostitution), however, the free exercise of rights never ever extends to the harm another person, that's called criminal behavior which no one is "free" to do.
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. Marcus Aurelius
child porn is no less
August 7, 2007 - 11:46 ET by TruthMongerchild porn is no less destructive than any other kind of porn my friend
I agree, however, a child
August 7, 2007 - 12:17 ET by dscottI agree, however, a child who is recruited for this vile thing has no choice whatsoever. It's one thing to debase yourself, it's a whole other level to forcefully debase another human being because they don't have the power to resist the advance.
But yes, porn does destroy those who willingly (for money or trade like drugs) present themselves for the picture as well, just as prostitution does to the prostitute. You may not immediately recognize the destruction because it is chronic (cummulative over time) in nature not necessarily acute (immediate).
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. Marcus Aurelius
actually many very young
August 7, 2007 - 12:36 ET by TruthMongeractually many very young children (age 3 on up) gleefully choose to participate and enjoy it immensely im afraid...quite frequently...
gleefully choose to
August 7, 2007 - 14:24 ET by general companygleefully choose to participate and enjoy it
WHAT? That is the most ridiculous thing I have read in this thread, and that is saying a lot!
they do - and it is
August 7, 2007 - 14:51 ET by TruthMongerthey do - and it is disturbing as hell yes
And where does ...
August 7, 2007 - 15:20 ET by Six String Spiff...one go to find evidence of such vile acts?
The American Revolution Continued
vile child porn evidence
August 7, 2007 - 15:48 ET by TruthMongertry googling "child model"
it only takes about 5 or 10 minutes
just make sure you have plenty of PC virus protection:)
3 and up?!
August 7, 2007 - 15:19 ET by Six String SpiffWhat?! the argument still stands that the child does not yet have the mental capacity needed to soundly make that choice. The sam thing as being attracted to a rattle. He/she doesn't know why it's fun. They're 3!
The American Revolution Continued
anyone participating in porn
August 7, 2007 - 15:50 ET by TruthMongeranyone participating in porn is clearly missing some important mental capacity - that is my point - and age has not a fricking thing to do with it...
Umm no
August 7, 2007 - 16:12 ET by Six String SpiffWe agree to disagree on the age thing. next
The American Revolution Continued
okey dokey - and the saga
August 7, 2007 - 16:15 ET by TruthMongerokey dokey - and the saga continues:)
It is very clear...
August 7, 2007 - 11:55 ET by AtillaKahunaThe Bible teaches us (and modern science and psychology confirms) that what we see, hear and experience affects who we are and how we act. It has been shown in studies that adolescent boys who are exposed to pornography tend to see women more as objects than people. The simple act of viewing it causes the human brain to de-value another human being.
Isn't it amazing that the bible in general, and the New Testament in particular (a book written around two thousand years ago) had it right. What you allow into your brain can and will affect who you are. It does matter "what people watch in their own homes".
The Bible also teaches us that, even if something is "legal", it is not necessarily "good". Christ himself tells us, in 1 Corinthians 10:23 (Basic English Bible):
Or, if you prefer the King James version:
Then again, I'm just a fallen pile of dust, kept away from my true home in Heaven while I'm here on Earth. I'm using my Earthly perspective to try to interpret the words of Christ himself. I may be wrong. Then again, since we have a choice, I'd rather err on the side of caution. I'm not perfect, and have been down that road, and it is a hard, difficult road with no real "prize" at the end.
I'm just doing the best I can while I'm here. God's Grace and Christ's sacrifice for us all at Calvary are the only things that gets me past what I can do on my own.
Kahuna
Good for You, Kahuna
August 7, 2007 - 12:25 ET by MBombardierI know quite a few men like you who are willing to lose all, sometimes even their marriages if their wives cannot take their disclosure, for the sake of Christ. There is a depth of humility, compassion, and a willingness to speak truth into others' lives in men like you who cling to Christ because trying to do it in the strength of the flesh just lands one back in the pit over and over again.
God bless you.
Spiff, it matters because
August 8, 2007 - 08:42 ET by The Wicked ConservativeSpiff, it matters because although you perceive it as victimless you're sinning against God. Matthew 5:28 sums up God's definition of adultery which the seventh commandment forbids. Also consider the people involved in the making of that porn and what the life of a porn star is really like and the self destruction it will lead to. I hate porn because it's a progressive addictive habit that leads to self destruction. It changes how you perceive women and sex and eventually will lead to damantion. That is why the church must stand against it.
You can't save the Earth unless You're willing to make other people sacrifice. Dogbert the Green Consultant summing up the elite left.
The Church...
August 8, 2007 - 08:52 ET by Six String Spiff...can stand against anything it wants. The church is not my Constitution. I don't do/not do somethign becuase God told me to. We are just different that way. I am also aware it is called faith for a reason. I have yet to be convinced of any such being.
The American Revolution Continued
Well ok spiff
August 8, 2007 - 09:02 ET by The Wicked ConservativeI thought this article was about complaining about the church standing against these things. I was just explaining why the church must stand against porn. If that's not for you, sorry.
You can't save the Earth unless You're willing to make other people sacrifice. Dogbert the Green Consultant summing up the elite left.
commies
August 7, 2007 - 16:03 ET by DontFeedTheTrollsThis whole tact is about splitting off an individual aspect of behavior
from moral responsibility (church/faith purview) in public life. The
idea here is to peel off every behavior or life activity until your
participation at Church or faith is meaningless to the world around you.
This is what the Communist party proposed as part of it's plan to take over America. Look at steps 24 and 25, among others, from this Congressional record of January 10th, 1963. They are still out there, working against us.
D
I don't support our liberals or their mission.
flee
August 7, 2007 - 11:01 ET by vrwc13Sexual immorality is one of lifes issues that the Bible tells us to "flee" from. Doesn't sound like even a small dose would be good.
Men stumble over the truth from time to time, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing happened. -Winston Churchill.
As Christians we are not to
August 7, 2007 - 11:35 ET by ForeverOnTheRightAs Christians we are not to "have a hint of sexual imorality." (Ephesians 5:3) Your right we are to flee from sexual immorality. If we let a little in, we will let a little more and a little more, it's adictive and it pulls on normal human sexuality, which is a dangerous adiction. We are not to see how close we can get to the edge without falling off, but we are to get as far from the edge as possible.
how is it 'immoral' if they are 2 consensual adults?
August 7, 2007 - 11:43 ET by Six String SpiffHow is it 'immoral' if they are 2 consensual adults?
The American Revolution Continued
morality has nothing to do
August 7, 2007 - 11:47 ET by TruthMongermorality has nothing to do with age
It is clear...
August 7, 2007 - 12:02 ET by AtillaKahunaSomething is immoral if it is against the Word of God. God has been very clear that fornication (sexual relations outside of marriage) are forbidden, and therefore immoral.
Viewing pronography is not a "sin" (there is no commandment that say "Thou shalt not view porn", but just because something is not sinful doesn't make it okay.
As has been stated before, as a Christian, we are to flee from sexual temptation. We are also to treat one another as Christ himself treated the Church (the entire population of believers).
Do you know of any situation in the Bible or the life of Christ where he used another person for his personal gratification? I can't think of a single example myself.
And make no mistake, even though you will probably never meet the people in a porn video, you are using them for your personal gratification, whatever form that takes.
Kahuna
married people view porn
August 7, 2007 - 12:10 ET by TruthMongermarried people viewing porn are committing adultery - there's your commandment on that one...
as for the unmarried:
The three main categories of sin are: the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life (1 John 2:16). Pornography definitely causes us to lust after flesh, and it undeniably is a lust for our eyes. Pornography definitely does not qualify as one of the things we are to think about, “Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable - if anything is excellent or praiseworthy - think about such things” (Philippians 4:8). Pornography is addictive (1 Corinthians 6:12; 2 Peter 2:19), destructive (Proverbs 6:25-28; Ezekiel 20:30; Ephesians 4:19), and leads to ever-increasing wickedness (Romans 6:19). Lusting after other people in our minds (the essence of pornography) is offensive to God (Matthew 5:28). When habitual devotion to pornography characterizes a person’s being, that demonstrates the person is not saved (1 Corinthians 6:9).
http://www.gotquestions.org/pornography-Bible.html
I hand't considered that perspective...
August 7, 2007 - 12:16 ET by AtillaKahunaTM,
Truly, thank you! I had not thought through to that set of verses, and I appreciate the reminder.
Kahuna
"married people viewing
August 7, 2007 - 13:08 ET by Six String Spiff"married people viewing porn are committing adultery"
With all do respect to my elders, that is one of the most absurd things I have ever heard. PLease stop citing the Bible, as some of us here do not follow it to the word.
The American Revolution Continued
I totally agree six
August 7, 2007 - 13:12 ET by BinxlyI totally agree six string. Adultery is the act of sex with another. Most people don't view porn to imagine sleeping with that person, rather, the sexual imagery causes stimulation and therefore the initial, desired release. I seriously worry that you sometimes take things too much to an extreme TM with all due respect. I think life is to be enjoyed while trying to be as good a person as possible. If the 'rules' are so strict, I'm pretty sure everyone here and a very large majority of even YOUNG americans have then already bought their one way ticket to hell.*
*disclaimer, I seriously don't believe anyone in that sense is truely going to hell
"already bought their one way ticket to hell.* "
August 7, 2007 - 13:21 ET by vrwc13but...there's still time to exchange your ticket for the other.
One can live this life as if there's no tomorrow or life-after...70 years or so of pleasure...
Or one can live this life according to God's plan, and enjoy an eternity with Him.
"This life compared to eternity is like a pencil mark on a string from here to China" - unknown
See, I view it
August 7, 2007 - 13:25 ET by BinxlySee, I view it differently. There are plenty of men and women who follow Gods word in this sense, but are so crass, rude, and mean to those who aren't like them, pass judgment, and fail in other ways of life. For someone like me who is as kind as I can possibly be, open-minded, and loving regardless of whatever person quirks one has, to believe that I am somehow damned because I have ever enjoyed masturbation, well, that's just ludicrous. If you people *truely* believe that, well, I guess its just in my personal opinion that you view God then as a very authoritarian figure. I tend to think someone inheirently infallible is immune to such pitfalls as pride and a fascist nature thats exclusionary to all who don't do 'exactly as he says.'
binx the funny thing here
August 7, 2007 - 13:36 ET by TruthMongerbinx the funny thing here is you are judging me right now for "being judgemental"
I'm just fine - not agitated, crass or rude whatsoever here...
Christianity 101 teaches you that no one can be a "good person" - until you understand that you speak essentially french and i speak chinese...
God's standards for our happiness are way up there...
Adultery does not require a physical act - sorry - not my rule - I hate most of these rules myself by the way - if it weren't for the Bible I'd be living at at Hooters with sarc...
so is that NB t-shirt cutie hot or what?
TM, I wasn't refering to
August 7, 2007 - 13:46 ET by BinxlyTM,
I wasn't refering to you when I mentioned the rude, mean, and closed-minded religion fanatics. However, I'm not judging, I'm pointing out the reality in a sense that doesn't rely on God's rule to hold true. Gravity for example, it exists without intervention of God's word. However, the truths you speak of are reliant on the fact that not only was documentation of God's word 100% literal and correct, but that it holds weight in the first place (again just playing devils advocate, I do thin God's word holds weight.)
I mean I hate to say this but I see a trend of turning whatever I say back on to me in order to somehow prove Im the mislead and you are the one who's found all answers in God. I tend to believe that God has left alot of life for US to decide. Im the type who believes a chronic masturbator who otherwise was a kind, hardworking, compassionate individual is much more suited for heaven than say a crude, mean old man who goes to church religiously (pardon the pun) but have no respect or care for the well being of people who are considered 'heathens' by the rediculously lofty standards of the old school catholics.
Also, if looking at porn is adultery, where do you draw the line? I assume you are single if you're checking out the NB girl, right? Or maybe you're an adulterer?
tend to believe that God has left alot of life for us to decide
August 7, 2007 - 13:57 ET by vrwc13"I tend to believe that God has left alot of life for US to decide."
He did, but He left it with His Laws, His principles, and His freedoms(us to decide). You just have to "know" the first two so you know what is left as freedoms.
"individual is much more suited for heaven than..."
Our righteousness is like filthy rags, no one is "suited" for heaven, not one. But we have Him who was "righteous", "good enough" who died for us (our sin). So through Him we may have eternal life.
for they loved the approval of men rather than the approval of God. John 12:43
I wish I lived at Hooters,
August 7, 2007 - 13:51 ET by sarcasmoI wish I lived at Hooters, but all I get is a visit or three a week, it seems. Nevertheless, His creations -- the girls, the beers, my tobacco, the pork, and a wide variety of shellfish, and occasionally even super-low stakes poker -- all await me during business hours at Hooters, and just knowing that makes me happy...Praise the Lord!
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.
I hear Disney's working on
August 7, 2007 - 14:59 ET by TruthMongerI hear Disney's working on a Kid's Hooters concept...cool!
Coulda used this when i was 10...
I WISH I LIVED AT HOOTERS
August 7, 2007 - 20:23 ET by MightyMouthYeah me too Sarc. For the time being I'll just have to take my grandson every now and then.
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
Binx it's really quite
August 7, 2007 - 13:44 ET by vrwc13Binx it's really quite simple...the only thing you have to do 'exactly as he says' is believe in His one and only begotten Son. If you do, and it's for real, then your behavior will change because you will "want" to change it.
btw: those who "are plenty of men and women who follow Gods word in this sense, but are so crass, rude, and mean to those who aren't like them, pass judgment, and fail in other ways of life."... are either not "saved" or still on some level of struggling with the Truth one now claims to believe. And believe me it's always a struggle, we just trust it will get better... and eventually (eternity) it will.
Im just saying this is a
August 7, 2007 - 13:52 ET by BinxlyIm just saying this is a very alienating view of religion and frankly it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Its really no wonder those without strong family backgrounds in religion find this closed-minded, exclusionary viewpoint as 'unattractive.' I for one think if anything God would hope to unite, not exclude. If sex occurs where all parties, and I mean everyone involved, are consentual, then its no big deal. Given, that being said, MOST people DONT do that. We don't need some vision of a huge man in the clouds wishing to barbeque us for milenia on end to make the right choices. That being said, there is rarely, if ever, ONE 'right' choice. You can view that however you wish, but Im pretty sure if there was no bible, many of you would still be as closed minded to this stuff. I dont blame you, its much easier to live in a place where everyone is the same. They aren't however and *no one* has the right to say that makes them 'more savable' than any other or better than any other. I think God would be ashamed to see so many of his children so coldly shrug of their own bretheren simply because the life they chose is different.
I for one think if anything God would hope to unite, not exclude
August 7, 2007 - 14:11 ET by vrwc13"I for one think if anything God would hope to unite, not exclude."
God has said that "none should be lost". But He gives you free-will to answer His call or not. Among believers He calls us to be in "unity" as to attract others to us, that they too might believe.
"I think God would be ashamed to see so many of his children so coldly shrug of their own bretheren simply because the life they chose is different."
This is precisely why "we" even take our time to respond to you. One, He has commanded us too (and we do so because He first loved us and asks us to love Him back). And two, He asks us to love one-another, and no greater love than for a believer to speak the Truth to a non-believer, so that he too can believe and have eternal life with Him.
Christian Education
August 7, 2007 - 15:54 ET by Six String SpiffVRWC13... I have learned more about Christianity today than I ever have, and I am truely saddened.
"This is precisely why "we" even take our time to respond to you."
It's no wonder the Republicans lost. With an attitude like that (which is the same snobbery I expect from the liberals in the MSM telling us whats good for us) it's certainly no mystery to me why so many people choose not to get into religion. Holy Cow. No pun intened.
The American Revolution Continued
learning is good:) very
August 7, 2007 - 15:59 ET by TruthMongerlearning is good:)
very glad to hear it
No pun taken 6 String
August 7, 2007 - 16:55 ET by vrwc13No pun taken 6 String Spiff.
That wasn't meant as you took it. We, who consider ourselves "believers", take a lot of persecution when we speak out, or even live out our convictions. It would be "easier" for us to stick in our "holy huddles" content with our own salvation and forget about the rest of you.
But I was at church one time in Alabama when the pastor spoke about their new building plans. His church had grown quickly, and was showing no signs of slowing. Some came to him and asked if they had gotten big enough. His response I will never forget. He said "Great, let's go outside and hang a sign over the street: "We've gotten big enough, the rest of you can go to hell!". The building program continued...
Binxly, you have a point
August 7, 2007 - 14:38 ET by dscottBinxly, you have a point that no one is perfect, so in this sense whether your sin of choice is porn, murder, adultery, stealing, bearing false witness against your neighbor (lying is the over simplification of this act), etc. the person has still sinned and worthy of death/exclusion from God's presence. However, you have gotten lost in the minutia of sin, life is about choices, the issue is how does one choose to live? To get a grasp of what we are talking about I suggest doing a little reading of the NT, specifically 1 John 1: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=69&version=31
5This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. 7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all[b] sin.
8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.
and 1 John 3 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=69&chapter=3&version=31
7Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work. 9No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.
It is never a question of being sinless in your actions because we all make poor choices, it is a question of what you intend to do, what is your lifestyle? Either you are a slave of your passions or a slave of God. In the Christian view, you have a choice of whom you want to be a slave of, those are the only two choices, freedom is an illusion, a denial of reality of what drives the human condition.
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. Marcus Aurelius
I disagree. I am free. I
August 7, 2007 - 14:49 ET by BinxlyI disagree. I am free. I am no slave of passion nor of God. I *am* a free spirit that *chooses* God. I'm saying I don't see how someone who is gender incorrect in correlation between physical to mental, that also chooses God and follows his 'laws' is still short of his grace simply because of their transexuality. Logically and spiritually it doesn't make sense. Also, perhaps its the libertarian in me, but let me reiterate again, I am not a slave of God, I chose God much as he chose all of us. He may be the judgment of my soul, but he is not my soul itself. He may be part of it, but the beauty of mankind is we all are different. To say that because some people's quirks are different and a bit odd makes them less God-worthy is not only wrong, but again, Im pretty sure God would frown upon his children taking such judgement into their own hands.
binxly i really like your
August 7, 2007 - 14:47 ET by TruthMongerbinxly i really like your carefully reasoned thought - i don't see it your way to be sure - but don't let my meager Bible interpretations turn you against a God that loves ya!
Jesus suffered incredibly for you because He loves you and all of your friends - and so do I - make sure you know that first and foremost...
Thank you TM. I mean it,
August 7, 2007 - 14:56 ET by BinxlyThank you TM. I mean it, it's just tough when you have this pre-determined stereotype of how a certain group is, then you meet the exception. Then, with time and learning you learn the exception is actually the majority, and the oversexed and morally ambivalent example you once thought was the majority is actually the exception(s). I just get so sad when I hear Ashlee mention God in a positive way but then joke about how it wont matter since she's going to hell anyways (meaning it in a tounge in cheek way since when she brings up religion as a benchmark for alot of her morals, many people will point out that merely by being transexual means she's going to hell.)
Again though, your words there are kind and I myself would never turn away from God, I would merely hope that he had rational reasons to refute the love that could be found between a man and a woman in a case where the woman may not have been born a woman. Either way I enjoy hearing your side as well, I just don't see how someone like Ashlee, who is as I said before a virgin who is pretty much like any other normal girl, is threatening anything. She just wants to be happy like everyone else and rest easy at night that if she doesn't live to see the morning that she wont awaken in a sea of hellfire.
I'm no better than Ashlee
August 7, 2007 - 15:03 ET by TruthMongerI'm no better than Ashlee in my God's eyes let me tell you...
But Jesus saves me in spite of myself - and you and Ashlee can get the same deal if you want...
I'm no different now really than i ever was - i believe all this stuff but i don't live it most of the time...
God gives me credit for trying i guess...
He give you Heaven for
August 7, 2007 - 15:10 ET by vrwc13He gives you Heaven for being in the game!
v
Interesting... Well in
August 7, 2007 - 15:11 ET by BinxlyInteresting... Well in her case, since she's already started 'the process' and from what I can tell, has no intentions of turning back, how do you propose she 'get saved?' I mean she's a self-professed christian who tells me she does pray at times and some of those times even feels christ's presence. My question is, would she have to renounce all she is, go back to pretending to be a man, all for the sake of being saved?
Also I think God gives all of us who at least try some credit. I think of it as a pro golfer who designs and insanely hard course and puts novices on at each gold tee. he knows we're going to fail, no one is gonna par the course let alone birdie the course. (although in this Analogy think of Jesus as say, Tiger Woods :-p)
Admittedly, I just worry for her well being spiritually as well. I know darn well on Earth, if anyone ever does find out, she faces agression as she has already once mentioned an extremely forward male who hit on her multiple times at a certain sports bar and when he was told later she was who she was, you could hear him scream something along the lines 'Ima kill that fa**ot.' The sad thing there being people *still* think transexuality is the same as homosexuality. But again, she already has so much to worry about in the physical world, I just would hope her struggle wouldn't have to be the same in the spiritual....
Then again, what really do I know? I'm no vassal of God nor have I sat down and had a fireside chat with God so I'm pretty much going on my own selfish hopes to protect the people whom I see as inheirently good I guess...
binxly i like your golf
August 7, 2007 - 15:23 ET by TruthMongerbinxly i like your golf course analogy alot - it is very accurate i think...
Ashlee can't earn salvation - it's a gift - all she has to do is accept it...
from there on out just have her hang with other loving believers on a regular basis...
haha I think she'd love
August 7, 2007 - 15:34 ET by Binxlyhaha I think she'd love that, sadly, most of the local christian youth groups, while polite, are turned off by her. Again, she's not some burly lookin drag queen, as I said before, I only can tell cause I *know* but its moreso the fact that they think she is also 'going against God.' She plays a tough game by joking around, but I can tell it does weigh down on her. That's why me and a handful of other people sometimes even go out of our way to hang out with her, if anything, to remind her that even though she's different, she's still the same kind person she always was and that it is that aspect by which we evaluate her, not by what gender she identifies with. As for salvation, she's given herself to Christ even back when she wasn't ''she." I wouldn't say she's an overly religious person but she definately tries to model her life after the lessons of Christ it seems.
Well send her my way then -
August 7, 2007 - 15:52 ET by TruthMongerWell send her my way then - me and my fellow fundies will give her a ton of big hugs...
At least please give her one for me when you see her again...
haha will do. I want to
August 7, 2007 - 15:58 ET by Binxlyhaha will do. I want to apologize too, I mean, from the sound of it, perhaps I was wrong in my assumptionthat you viewed such people as 'less than.' I can say it does make me sad when people refer to her as 'it' or empahsize 'him' 'he' etc. she claims she isnt bothered really but I mean to me its as insulting as calling my mother or non-existant sister by male pronouns. Some do take that to an extreme, but all she ever wanted was respect of who she really is. She's not even here and you give her the dignity of refering to her as she feels she is. That speaks alot to your character in a good way. I like when we get into these debates TM and I come out to find that you are indeed much less bullheaded than I initially thought. Forgive my assumptions, it would seem I'm the one with egg on my face! :-P
Either way, I'm sure she'd be ecstatic to hear about a fellow christian that didn't immediately dissassociate themselves spiritually from her after hearing of her 'situation.'
thanks much - and i'm glad
August 7, 2007 - 16:03 ET by TruthMongerthanks much - and i'm glad she has you as a friend
very "Christian" of you
Maybe you can also read the Samaritan parable sometime to your friend for me...
The Samaritans were Godless heathens - according to the local religious leaders at the time - but the Samaritan was the only one to stop and help a beaten and robbed person on the side of the road
Jesus says this is God's central message to us all...
I've read your replies
August 7, 2007 - 17:54 ET by mulerider24I've read your replies Binxly and I think the general idea of your position is something most can relate to. I'm definitely no person to be held up for all to emulate, but I think this all stems from one’s interpretation of what it means to be a Christian.
Let me first state that I have seen my fair share of pornography. But the question becomes: Do I massage my interpretation of God’s word to adhere to my self-interests so a little porn every once in a while won’t hurt anyone? Or should I actually follow the more absolute interpretation of the scripture and try to rid that sin from my life?
The Cultural Christianity that is so prevalent today will tell me that it’s no big deal and that God won’t judge me based on this one little flaw. After all, how can one judge an entire body of work based solely on one little imperfection? Maybe that’s true, but doesn’t that set an extremely flimsy precedent for God’s word: As long as I meander in the shallow end of the pool I should be safe from whatever lurks in deeper waters.
Apply that same logic to any field of choice and see how successful that model will be. Do you think a football coach ever told a wide receiver to go three-quarters speed because that play wasn’t designed for him? Odds are, over the course of an entire game the player will eventually get tired and run a route at less than 100%. But should that prevent the coach from asking the receiver to run a perfect route?
I agree that we shouldn’t view God as some huge man in the clouds waiting to BBQ us at every turn. But I tend to think the opposite can be equally, if not more, dangerous. What if we all viewed God as some gentle grandfather type who spoils us and lets us have our own way? Christians could then follow the God we want (relative), instead of the God who is (absolute). That’s kind of like watching parents give in to their kids’ incessant whining all in the pursuit of gaining their friendship. I imagine we’ll have plenty of empirical evidence as to the outcome of that path as we see today’s “Y-Not Generation” grow up.
.
Where from
August 8, 2007 - 10:42 ET by cvgbuckeyeBinxly:
Where did you get that "seriously don't believe" from? Is it just some sixth sense that you have? Did it and all of your other beliefs just come to you in a vision, in the middle of the night? Or was it some book that you read it in? Or maybe it just ocurred to you one day while walking about?
What particular books of the Bible do you disagree with? Which ones do you agree with, if any? How much of the Bible have you ever read, if any? How many chapters are their in the Bible or how many books and which are truth and which are tripe?
If you believe that a man named Jesus Christ ever existed, how has his legend lived so long. How did it spread throughout the entire known world in a matter of about 50 years, give or take a few decades, without any modern media (they walked around and sometimes took ships)? How did 12 men (and a few hundred others) who cowardly ran and hid on the night of Christ's arrest and denied him, and the next day witnessed his horrble death, get so brave so quick. Peter and the rest became vocal witnesses in the face of death over the rest of their lives and were actually martyred in the name of Jesus Christ. What happened to these men overnight?
And you "just seriously don't believe"???? I have my 2000 year old Book to find my beliefs! What do you have?
I am very sorry to get so carried away. SHAKE - SHAKE
This whole argument is
August 7, 2007 - 13:16 ET by Clear thinkerThis whole argument is getting dumb. Maybe we should consider the reason for sex... procreation! Porn has nothing to do with procreation. In order to keep our species moving forward God designed a man and a woman. One was a gift to another, but it's purpose was to procreate. It was not meant to become a SPORT!
Get Email updates from Fred http://socialnet.imwithfred.com/email_alert_july_26.html
you may not believe in
August 7, 2007 - 13:20 ET by TruthMongeryou may not believe in speeding laws either
just explain it to the police officer and you'll be fine:)
"It was not meant to become
August 7, 2007 - 14:19 ET by MightyMouth"It was not meant to become a SPORT!"
Disagree there NB buddy. I think God did intend sex to be a sport and for married couples to go after it as if there where gold medals to win!
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
) : oops.... : )
August 7, 2007 - 15:06 ET by vrwc13) : oops.... : )
Neither was hunting...
August 7, 2007 - 16:17 ET by Six String SpiffThe American Revolution Continued
I define my own morals
August 7, 2007 - 12:12 ET by Six String SpiffI define my own morals based on the fact that I am a good person, and can decide MYSELF what is right for me or not. (within reason of course) I am not runnign around trying to influence other people. I was taken to church and went to Sunday School, but was given an option to explore other beliefes. I don't need a rule book under my arm. I am good to other people even as they are amazingly rude to me. Getting back to porn.... Age has a lot to do with it. Why else do people scream about dending the poor children? They are not developed enough to decide. Adults can make a descision based on their process of logic. Does this hurt anyone else bbut us? No? ok then.
The American Revolution Continued
these are your morals man -
August 7, 2007 - 12:14 ET by TruthMongerthese are your morals man - no better or worse than mine - agreed? Or are you so "good" that yours are better? Just wondering here...
No offense
August 7, 2007 - 12:55 ET by cvgbuckeyeSix String: I in know way mean this to be offensive to you but I know of no other way to enter the Kingdom of God except through Jesus Christ. If God has made some other allowance, he did not include it in his inspired word.
I know that you will not like this but it is irrelevant of how nice a guy someone is or how good they are to their fellow man if they have not accomplished the things contained in "What must I do to be saved?" Christians have a strong obligation to say this kind of thing; for it is true.
If one is not acquainted with The Bible, Faith vs. Works, confession, redemption, forgiveness, acceptance of Jesus Christ, the work of The Holy Spirit and on and on, this will be a difficult concept for them.
There are plenty of us here to help. It took many years to get all this through my thick skull but there were others there to help me when I was finally ready, and I thank God for putting them there.
That's all.
"It took many years to get all this through my thick skull"
August 7, 2007 - 13:14 ET by vrwc13Amen brother, raised in a "christian" home and left it and my "sunday school" training behind for 20 years. Found TM (Transendational Meditation), est, Rosicusians, etc. Finally found Tim Timmons and after two years of worldly de-programming, found Him.
Men stumble over the truth from time to time, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing happened. -Winston Churchill.
I am not claiming I am better than anyone here.
August 7, 2007 - 13:16 ET by Six String SpiffI believe Christianity is a good thing. I have never seen anything negative stem from it. I despise how much crap get shoveled into it's face when we have other religions that commit horrendous acts such as Islam. I am of the belief that I will be re-born. I believe in Karma, and the eternal cycle. There, I have fully disclosed my beliefs to you all. I do not try and influence anybody to join me, or whatever. I am not accusing you of doing so either. There is one thing that bothers me about Religion. The constant 'holier than thou' mentality. However, at least Christians and basically every other religion besides anything that is derived form Muslims, has a level of acceptance.
The American Revolution Continued
"I do not try and
August 7, 2007 - 13:23 ET by TruthMonger"I do not try and influence anybody to join me, or whatever"
your posts here indicate otherwise:)
just waiting for you to practice what you preach and find some of your glorious and admirable "acceptance" for CP
Ok TM, I love ya to death
August 7, 2007 - 13:27 ET by BinxlyOk TM, I love ya to death but I think that high horse is a lil tired. Maybe give it a night to rest.
you too binxare you
August 7, 2007 - 13:37 ET by TruthMongeryou too binx
but are you putting me on a pedestal? shame on ya
no one's horse here goes lower than mine i'll guarantee ya
just looking for some consistency from my friends here
so is that nb t-shirt girl hot or what:)?
she's hot, but not as hot
August 7, 2007 - 13:47 ET by vrwc13she's hot, but not as hot as hell...we best get over it, or at least seek foregiveness.
v
Sheesh. I haven't even
August 7, 2007 - 13:58 ET by sarcasmoSheesh. I haven't even sought her phone number!
But I'd be the first to call our t-shirt ad girl a wonderful creation -- and girls that smokin' hot are IMO the final politically-incorrect proof that feminists are wrong and God's obviously a guy -- so can't the social conservatives here at least try to like that about her?? ;)
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.
sarc, some more of God's creation...
August 7, 2007 - 14:02 ET by vrwc13: )
vrwc... You just showed
August 7, 2007 - 14:06 ET by Clear thinkervrwc...
You just showed proof that liberals are being punished for their sins ;-)
Get Email updates from Fred http://socialnet.imwithfred.com/email_alert_july_26.html
; )
August 7, 2007 - 14:15 ET by vrwc13; )
Why is CP brought up again?
August 7, 2007 - 14:10 ET by Six String SpiffTM you are driving the CP spike too much here. have I in anyway advocated for CP? Can we lay that to rest?
The American Revolution Continued
as long as you agree that CP
August 7, 2007 - 15:27 ET by TruthMongeras long as you agree that CP is just the same as any other P - then I can do it...
Seems simple enough
August 7, 2007 - 14:35 ET by general companyDo you know of any situation in the Bible or the life of Christ where he used another person for his personal gratification? I can't think of a single example myself.
Did he ever smile or laugh? Who bought these emotions to him? Was he not created in the image of man? Humans only thrive on the personal gratification of others, if not,,,,, then why?
Just because it's consenual
August 7, 2007 - 12:05 ET by ForeverOnTheRightJust because it's consenual it does not make it moral. If a man has sex with another man's wife and it's consensual, is it moral? NO Consensual sex does not equate with being moral, with exception that if you are a secular person, your morrality is based on what is acceptable to the secular mind not with right and wrong.
If those two adults make a bad descision
August 7, 2007 - 12:14 ET by Six String SpiffThe responsibilty falls on the individuals who engage. If the husband/wife is not faithful, then they are not meant to be.
The American Revolution Continued
You are correct FOTR
August 7, 2007 - 13:19 ET by Six String SpiffAdultary is immoral, yes, and I despise the people who commit such acts. Faith to one's partner is one of my morals. But, we are talking about pornography.
The American Revolution Continued
I suspect, from experience,
August 7, 2007 - 11:00 ET by sarcasmoI suspect, from experience, that we're about to try the impossible -- to "define" porn. I really hope it does NOT include NB's new t-shirt ad cutie, even if she's showing a bit of skin along with that smile...
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.
"NB's new t-shirt ad cutie"
August 7, 2007 - 11:05 ET by vrwc13"Sexually explicit pictures, writing, or other material whose primary purpose is to cause sexual arousal. " dictionary
Does it fit?
As far as I am concerned the
August 7, 2007 - 11:43 ET by ForeverOnTheRightAs far as I am concerned the cute young lady in the NB ad does not cause sexual arousal for me. I find her cute and if I where her age etc. etc. I'd be interested in dating a young lady as cute as she is. I don't see the photo of this young lady is to "cause sexual arousal" ,it's intent is to get our atention, as I got your's, sarc.
No, she got my attention!
August 7, 2007 - 11:48 ET by sarcasmoNo, she got my attention! ;) In fact, I even find her more interesting than "real" porn. To each his (or her!) own!
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.
Same here sarc
August 7, 2007 - 12:39 ET by Six String SpiffYes, as a matter of fact, I was astonished it was even on this site. Nice little bonus. Speaking of sexual arousal, what about all the conversation we've had on here regarding hot infobabes? there is obviously some arousal if people are inclined to post links to the hotties. Right? I am not flaming anyone here. I'm just trying to see this logically.
The American Revolution Continued
I assure you, my interest
August 7, 2007 - 12:49 ET by sarcasmoI assure you, my interest in Dominica Davis is entirely intellectual and weather-related. Almost! ;) Actually, come to think of it, I really AM more interested in what Ms. Davis thinks than what John Gibson & Bill O'Reilly put-together think about any given political issue!! That's probably another of my minority opinions. I'm waiting -- as with Kiran Chetry and various other newsbabes -- to discover that Dominica's already married! :) Such is life!
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.
Dominica Davis
August 7, 2007 - 13:22 ET by Six String SpiffSpeaking of whom, Sarc. I think it was you and Cool arrow who were discussing the weatherbabe. I googled her images and came up with NADA. I have been interested at to what she looks like. Any links?
The American Revolution Continued
Why is cuase sexual arousal in bold?
August 7, 2007 - 12:26 ET by Six String SpiffWhy is 'sexual arousal' in bold? What is wrong with sexual arousal? please try not to mention kiddy porn. It's already been thrown around too much.
The American Revolution Continued
porn is porn whether kiddie
August 7, 2007 - 12:38 ET by TruthMongerporn is porn whether kiddie or not - the problem here is people like you trying to differentiate...
Because ther is a difference.
August 7, 2007 - 12:41 ET by Six String SpiffThat's because there is a difference. What if a married couple decided to record themselves in the act and watch it as a prelude to their next romp? I believe that is still porn, no?
The American Revolution Continued
it may not be porn if no
August 7, 2007 - 13:10 ET by TruthMongerit may not be porn if no one else views it - not sure
but probably still sinful somehow - if Jesus wouldn't do it then we shouldn't either...
Of course I can't speak for Jesus but somehow I can't see Him doing that - if He were married that is...
The bottom line is that some arbitrary age defined by contemporary US law makes no difference to God...
"Probably still sinful Somehow"?
August 7, 2007 - 16:41 ET by Six String SpiffWhat a way to live... "That might be sinful!" yikes
So what were we 'put' on this earth for then if not to test our endurance for some unknown, twisted reason? Life is meant to be lived to the fullest whilst not harming anyone else. that pretty much covers it for me. Anyway... I have to go now. It's been real fun (not) but I have a nice Porterhouse calling...
The American Revolution Continued
"Probably still sinful Somehow"?
August 7, 2007 - 16:41 ET by Six String SpiffWhat a way to live... "That might be sinful!" yikes
So what were we 'put' on this earth for then if not to test our endurance for some unknown, twisted reason? Life is meant to be lived to the fullest whilst not harming anyone else. that pretty much covers it for me. Anyway... I have to go now. It's been real fun (not) but I have a nice Porterhouse calling...
The American Revolution Continued
TM...pencil mark on a string from here to China...
August 7, 2007 - 17:01 ET by vrwc13Hopefully some seed was sown, I dunno. I once heard a pastor use the analogy of comparing this life to the next as "think of it (this life) as a pencil mark on a string from here to China in comparison to eternity."
One can only hope, pray, our friends here will seek beyond the pages here at NB to see if what we say has some real meaning. If I find out it doesn't, I'll meet you and Sarc at Hooters!
v
high 5 vr
August 7, 2007 - 17:14 ET by TruthMongerspiff has a few seeds to water i'd say - awesome
"mission accomplished"
its millah time:)
Mission accomplished?
August 8, 2007 - 08:18 ET by Six String SpiffTM what you talking about nnow? Mission accomplished? what have you accomplished here, exactly? You can take your little inside 'reaping and sowing' snickering and get bent. You and VRWC are the most close-minded indivduals I have spoken with on this thread, and that speaks volumes.
The American Revolution Continued
Dude i can think circles
August 8, 2007 - 13:44 ET by TruthMongerDude i can think circles around your way as well as my own - that's because i used to think just like you do...
right now you have a little trouble just venturing out of your own little universe - i understand
but the Holy Spirit is really digging around your brain right now - that's largely my fault - your welcome - see you in Bible-thumping church - id say about 5 to 10 years from now - give or take...
Why is 'sexual arousal' in bold?
August 7, 2007 - 12:43 ET by vrwc13In bold for same reason that "anyone who looks at a woman lustfully" is in bold. Wouldn't you equate sexual arousal with looking lustfully? But these commands are for those who believe what Jesus said should be taken seriously. For others they are "relative" to ones owns beliefs.
Adultery
27"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.'[e] 28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.
Divorce
31"It has been said, 'Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.'[f] 32But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery. Matthew 5
those verses just warm my
August 7, 2007 - 15:29 ET by TruthMongerthose verses just warm my married, porn-loving heart let me tell ya!
C'mon Sarc, it's easy to
August 7, 2007 - 11:07 ET by MightyMouthC'mon Sarc, it's easy to define "porn". We all know what porn is. And we all know that a chick in a bikini or T-shirt with mid section showing isn't "porn". Even public nudity isn't porn, people having sex in the "public eye" is porn, pretty easy to spot. Photographing young childeren naked for the purpose of adult sexual gratification is beyond porn and just sick!
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
I think we can safely assume....
August 7, 2007 - 11:45 ET by Six String Spiff...nobody here is defending child porn. Let's just lay that to rest.
The American Revolution Continued
by encouraging any porn -
August 7, 2007 - 11:49 ET by TruthMongerby encouraging any porn - you are further enabling child porn...that is the problem...they can not be separated...
They are however seperated
August 7, 2007 - 11:52 ET by MightyMouthThey are however seperated by secular society and the law.
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
but not by morality -
August 7, 2007 - 11:58 ET by TruthMongerbut not by morality - so this citizen continues to vote for morally founded civic law
What?!
August 7, 2007 - 12:42 ET by Six String SpiffIt's up to the individual to control themselves or suffer the consequences.
The American Revolution Continued
I never thought you were
August 7, 2007 - 11:51 ET by MightyMouthI never thought you were spiff. Some here just saw your original statement as a little inclusive.
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
he inadvertantly is whether
August 7, 2007 - 11:53 ET by TruthMongerhe inadvertantly is whether he wants to admit it or not - people like him certainly enable much more child porn - and many other vices
TM.. What?
August 7, 2007 - 14:22 ET by Six String SpiffTM You are making Debra J smith look good over here. I can't hear anything form the *THUMP* ing. Stop tryig to tell me I'm WORNG when I haven't hurt a damn thing. Freedom of Religion mean acceptance of other beliefs as long as they don't hurt anyone else. The Bible is not the Constitution.
The American Revolution Continued
The Constitution was based
August 7, 2007 - 14:29 ET by vrwc13The Constitution was based on Judeo/Christian Biblical laws and principles, not vice-versa.
btw: I don't think TM is saying you are wrong in his opinion, but God's.
v
God's opinion
August 7, 2007 - 14:45 ET by Six String SpiffWhen I hear it, I will acknowledge it.
The American Revolution Continued
When I hear it, I will acknowledge it.
August 7, 2007 - 15:04 ET by vrwc13You can "hear it" for yourself at any time. His spoken Word is available in print (best seller of all times), and in many versions. Also available on cassette or CD.
v
I guess I'll just let spiff
August 7, 2007 - 15:31 ET by TruthMongerI guess I'll just let spiff here THUMP his Hooters menu around and tell me I'm wrong - shame on me...
People certainly used to
August 7, 2007 - 11:51 ET by sarcasmoPeople certainly used to think such photos as our young t-shirt cutie were porn, so if there is an actual definition (and I have yet to see one here in this conversation!) it's sure unstable as hell over time. Want proof? Seen any old swimsuit photos??
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.
societal decay is slow,
August 7, 2007 - 12:00 ET by TruthMongersocietal decay is slow, takes time, largely goes un-noticed - until it's too late...it is porn sarc
"so if there is an actual
August 7, 2007 - 12:01 ET by MightyMouth"so if there is an actual definition (and I have yet to see one here in this conversation!)"
Where does my simple definition fall short?:
"...people having sex in the "public eye" is porn.."
"Public eye" being print, video a novel any public medium. Basically "the sexual act in public".
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
That definition would leave
August 7, 2007 - 12:42 ET by sarcasmoThat definition would leave a lot of nudity, er, uncovered, wouldn't it? I'm actually all for modesty, but this is one of those areas that's difficult to define -- in part because different things turn different people on differently. This illustrates why modesty is best "enforced" socially, in small communities, instead of by government in yet-another attempt at "one size fits all." The "right" answer (ideally under our Constitution's tenth amendment) to "what's porn" just might be different in Bozeman, Montana than in Key West or New York City, and saying that ISN'T the same thing as saying any of those answers is wrong! They're all "right" for their place. The problem comes with trying to define a community like those on the internet, because we're obviously too-diverse even on this relatively-homogenous space, let alone the entire internet. :)
Clearly, as everyone knows by now, I enjoy watching All-American girls like our current t-shirt model & just about every Hooters-girl in Florida, but as much as I like looking at them, my history says I'm unlikely to do anything evil to any of them because of it. Besides, I'm sure the t-shirt model would probably find me repulsive, if by some fluke she were ever to have to look at a photo of me or forced to deal with me in person like the Hooters-girls! ;)
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.
No Biblical answer this time, but a rhyme:
August 7, 2007 - 13:04 ET by vrwc13No Biblical answer this time but a rhyme:
consider -
I've had my fun
where I found it.
And now I must
pay for my fun.
For once you have
known of the others,
it's hard to settle for one.
v
NB t-shirt hottie:)
August 7, 2007 - 13:12 ET by TruthMongeranything that inspires lust is the problem - and our NB t-shirt cutie certainly does that to me - she's freakin hot:)!
Definition of Porn
August 8, 2007 - 13:57 ET by exLibAccording to my Greek translation of the Bible.
In Galatians 5:19, the NIV translation says Sexual immorality.
Some know it as fornication.
The greek word = Pornographia.
Defined as ANY sex outside of marriage.
The Bible is VERY clear that seeing someone who is not your wife/husband/child naked is not right.
There are too many instances to name here.
spiff ain't gonna like this
August 8, 2007 - 14:04 ET by TruthMongerspiff ain't gonna like this exlib:(
From a woman's point of view...
August 7, 2007 - 11:24 ET by Maverick313Going to the strip club, looking at porn magazines, anything having to with nudity can ruin relationships and marriages. The man or woman that is addicted can start to have unrealistic ideas as to what their partner should look or act like in the bedroom. If they don't get what they want, then they go and look for someone that has the same idea as they. One man couldn't have sex with his wife until he looked at his porn magazine, because they did it for him and his wife did not. How is that supposed to make the wife feel?!
God made guidelines to sex. It is meant to be a blessing not a curse as it has become. Sex is only good when in a marriage. Then it has His protection. You go outside of the marriage and there awaits disease and addiction. I will not marry someone, or date someone for that matter, that goes to strip clubs or has any pornographic material. Not only is he wasting his money on women he can not touch, he is also damaging himself. And whether they will admit to it or not, they do start to compare you to the "dancer" or "actress" in the film.
Sex is a blessing from God meant for a husband and wife in the covenant of marriage. When you engage in it you are giving a piece of your soul to that person. If you are to break up, then that person takes a piece of you with them. It doesn't just happen to women, but men too.
If you don't stand behind our troops; please feel free to stand in front of them!
So, nudity is bad, or just
August 7, 2007 - 12:48 ET by balboaSo, nudity is bad, or just porn nudity?
What if they start to compare you to the women in Vogue, Glamour, etc.?
Nudity is good! If it's
August 7, 2007 - 12:53 ET by Clear thinkerNudity is good!
If it's practiced with your spouse!
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Nudity is good! If it's practiced with your spouse!
August 7, 2007 - 12:57 ET by vrwc13: )
What about nudity in art?
August 7, 2007 - 12:59 ET by balboaWhat about nudity in art?
What about it? Get
August 7, 2007 - 13:00 ET by Clear thinkerWhat about it?
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The above poster said
August 7, 2007 - 13:03 ET by balboaThe above poster said "anything having to with nudity can ruin relationships and marriages." Just looking for clarification on that statement.
Like I said... Nudity
August 7, 2007 - 13:06 ET by Clear thinkerLike I said...
Nudity only practiced with your spouse can settle all of that. Dontcha think???
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What is practicing nudity?
August 7, 2007 - 13:11 ET by balboaWhat is practicing nudity? Are you saying that you can only admire nudity in art if it's your spouse in the art?
anything that inspires lust
August 7, 2007 - 13:13 ET by TruthMongeranything that inspires lust is a problem - art included...
You should not lust after anyone - even your spouse...
any other questions bal - you have some good ones!
"anything that inspires
August 7, 2007 - 13:19 ET by MightyMouth"anything that inspires lust is a problem"
Then Burkas it is!!!!!!!!
About time too! I am sick of going to the grocery store and becoming the victim of lust!
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
amen:)
August 7, 2007 - 13:24 ET by TruthMongeramen:)
So could this be a
August 7, 2007 - 14:45 ET by balboaSo could this be a problem?
http://teachers.henr...
yes it could - is it from a
August 7, 2007 - 15:33 ET by TruthMongeryes it could - is it from a church or something:)?
Bal... Before I can
August 7, 2007 - 13:19 ET by Clear thinkerBal...
Before I can answer you, I need for you to clarify something for me. What do you consider art???
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That's a pretty good
August 7, 2007 - 14:43 ET by balboaThat's a pretty good question. I'm not sure I know. If I feel someone has put thought and consideration into creating something of value, then it might be art.
Kinda obvious, ain't
August 7, 2007 - 13:00 ET by Clear thinkerKinda obvious, ain't it???
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"Going to the strip club,
August 7, 2007 - 12:58 ET by ckc1227"Going to the strip club, looking at porn magazines, anything having to with nudity can ruin relationships and marriages."
So can playing football with the fellas on the weekends, or eating too many McDonald's Big Mac combo meals.
true - lets scratch those
August 7, 2007 - 13:14 ET by TruthMongertrue - lets scratch those too:)
Been There, Doing That
August 7, 2007 - 11:27 ET by MBombardierI have been separated from my husband of 21 years for five months under the authority of the elders in our church because of his sexual immorality, principally internet porn. When I tied up the computer so tight he couldn't get to it, he went back to getting his porn elsewhere. All "addictions" are idolatrous, substituting something other than God to fill the God-shaped hole in our hearts. But sexual immorality is the only sin against the body. Some would capitalize Body, as in a man (or woman) caught in the bondage of sexual idolatry sins not only against his or her own body and spouse, since we are one flesh, but against the Body of Christ.
There is a whole sub-culture of women in the church who married God-fearing, Christ-honoring men, believing that they would be loved and cherished all their lives, raising their children together in the the nurture and admonition of the Lord, who now live lives of quiet desperation, thinking that if they just love their husbands enough, are just pretty enough, just slender enough, just quiet enough, just gentle enough, just submissive enough, just respectful enough, just available enough, then their husbands will turn from their wicked ways back to the Lord. And they think no one else understands, and if they told anyone, they would be condemned, because surely it's their fault their husbands are not satisfied at home.
Then there's another set of women who are like me--driven by that life of quiet desperation to the point that they are willing to give up everything for the sake of Christ, including all comfort, security, reputation, and whatever else they looked to their husbands to provide. And who discover, like I am, that Christ alone is sufficient. That Christ alone meets every need, that God is the husband to the widow, and the father of the fatherless. That the lovingkindness aod sure mercy of God enables them to make the hard decisions that leave their husbands wide open to God's working in their lives and hearts.
And there is no guarantee that our husbands will change. I have tremendous sympathy and compassion for Christian men whose first love is Christ, but the enemy trips them up over and over again with the porn that is a fact in our culture today and impossible to get away from if you are in the world at all. They are miserable, and some lead lives of excruciating pain. And some, whose consciences are seared, have learned to live with the pain, somewhat like the frog in the pot of water which doesn't realize the temperature is rising as the pot heats to boiling.
But Christ is enough. In the end, Christ is everything.
Bless you Mbombadier
August 7, 2007 - 11:51 ET by TruthMongermy heart and prayers are with you...what an incredible tragedy this rampant porn thing has become:(...
Ummm what?
August 7, 2007 - 11:51 ET by Six String SpiffI knew this thread bring out the thumpers. Good grief. Seperated form your hubby of 21 years under the 'authority' of Church elders?!
...and out comes the independant side of me. For better or for worse. I don't lie
The American Revolution Continued
You and I may not agree
August 7, 2007 - 11:59 ET by sarcasmoYou and I may not agree with how they use their freedom, but if this couple is truly free, aren't they therefore free to submit themselves to the authority they choose in this case? If they're suffering, I hope this action somehow helps them, even if at the same time I can't imagine doing it myself.
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.
good one sarc this is a
August 7, 2007 - 12:01 ET by TruthMongergood one sarc
this is a "free country"
with millions of freedom-curbing laws is it not:)?
Thanks. That's why I'm
August 7, 2007 - 12:05 ET by sarcasmoThanks. That's why I'm working so-hard for actually-smaller government, which IMO will naturally and slowly lead to more personal responsibility -- just as more government has done the opposite over my entire lifetime.
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.
way smaller gov would be
August 7, 2007 - 12:12 ET by TruthMongerway smaller gov would be fantastic - im also on board
I Suspect I Know Your Problem
August 7, 2007 - 12:09 ET by MBombardierYes, I voluntarily placed myself under the counsel and authority of the elders. When I broached the subject of separation, after a grueling Matthew 18 process with my husband, it was agreed that separation was in order because there was no telling if/when my husband's sin would escalate to the point that he would bring disease into our relationship that could damage my health or even kill me.
I suspect from your other comments that I know your problem, Mr. Independent Frog....
Independant Frog?
August 7, 2007 - 14:40 ET by Six String SpiffCouldn't you have deduced that yourself without the authority of the Church? Like Sarcasmo said. Personal responsibility take effort. Those who can't control themselves will be dealt with. The thing tha tI'm suspicious of here is that your Husband didn't have a say in your separating from him over....porn? Just becaus ethe man looks at some skin online does not mean he is unsatisfied with you, and is looking for a whore.
'Independant Frog'.... Thank you for illustrating my point
The American Revolution Continued
Sounds like she went
August 7, 2007 - 14:58 ET by vrwc13Sounds like she went through the Biblical process, of
In otherwords, she did what God asks us to do in this kind of situation.
v
Over and Over Again, Actually
August 7, 2007 - 23:08 ET by MBombardierYee-up.
Christianity, Porn, and the Constitution
August 8, 2007 - 12:56 ET by Six String SpiffI have all the respect in the world for Christianity. I have never found anything to be wrong with it fundamentally. Were I draw the line is with hard liners who run around telling people “they are going to hell unless…” I mean give me a break. Are we running around sawing people’s heads off? Are we forcing pornography onto anybody else who isn’t in the store to purchase it? The censorship I see coming from the Left and Right scares me.
Left Wing Nut Jobs – “That could be offensive so don’t do/say that.”
Right Wing Nut Jobs – “That is morally reprehensible, and God forbids you to say/do that.”
This is all said keeping in mind the obvious wrong things people should not do. Rape, Steal, Murder etc… Where is the middle ground?
Also, Where does it state that our Constitution be a carbon copy of the Bible? This is why I did not register Republican or Democrat. I registered independent.
The American Revolution Continued
just spiffy spiff
August 8, 2007 - 13:23 ET by TruthMongerYou have all the respect in the world for Christianity? Doesn't sound that way to me...
God's law is about raising the bar to a high standard. Why? It's not about taking the fun out of life, dude. It's about protecting us from ourselves until we know better - which for you is probably a long way off yet...
It's not exactly fun for me you know to try and raise the bar for the benefit of my community (which includes you) only to have someone like you cheap shot people like me with the usual BS such as "intolerant, hateful, judgemental, etc, etc."
The constitution says I have a right to my say and my vote just like you do bud and I will use it.
You may not be cutting heads off people. But your actions do affect the rest of us dramatically. It ripples through the entire community. And what you are promoting with this pornography lowers the bar. When you lower the bar for a group you also lower the performance...
The porn industry is increasingly devastating our communities. So I intend to fight against it. That's my right. You can promote it. That's your right. Welcome to democracy. May the best agenda win:)
Constitutional Republic
August 8, 2007 - 14:01 ET by Six String SpiffConstitutional Republic my friend.
The American Revolution Continued
based on democratic
August 8, 2007 - 14:06 ET by TruthMongerbased on democratic principles
a Republican like me can admit that:)
TM, VRWC
August 8, 2007 - 15:27 ET by Six String SpiffWell, I am glad you guys have hope for me. That's what I like about Christianity. Unlike Islam they wish good will towards the 'lost' like myself. It's hard being a skeptic of God. Yes, I ent to public schools, but it was during the Reagan era (Thank uhh God:-)) TM, I admire your dedication and devotion. I wish Gods existence could be proven to me. That is not meant to inflame anybody here. I haven't a clue what comes in the after-life, but I have made my descision (for now) to choose the thing that makes most sense to me. That being my own hybrid faith consisting of Karma, and being a good person. I know I have mouthed off to some of you regarding this topic, and I apologize. I was actually 'saved' when I was 14... It was with a youth group I used to belong to. I have since visited some ZEN centers, and I can say they are some of the most accepting, free of judgement people I have ever met. Not to mention the least violent. We agree to disagree on the CP front. I'm going to go play darts now. You guys have a good night.
The American Revolution Continued
Hope your darts land you a "REDEEMER"
August 8, 2007 - 15:44 ET by vrwc13I was "confirmed" at 14, but it was not the "real deal" for me. Went on to TM, est, Rosicrucians, etc. Took 16 years of secular living, and a few of God's 2x4's to finally get me to see the Light. Been making it up in the last 16 years though. Got a great wife and 6 kids, whom all love the Lord.
Hope your darts land you a "REDEEMER"
v
Don't you think God would
August 8, 2007 - 15:48 ET by balboaDon't you think God would rather you spent your time living your life than trying to "make it up" to him?
I'm living the life now God
August 8, 2007 - 15:51 ET by vrwc13I'm living the life now God has intended for me to live, one that's but a flea on an elephant compared to the next.
Like to see you there.
v
How can you be sure? How do
August 8, 2007 - 15:54 ET by balboaHow can you be sure? How do you know God doesn't just want you to live your life?
He does, but by His
August 8, 2007 - 16:13 ET by vrwc13He does, but by His rules. He created it all in the first place.
You will meet Him someday, hope you've been "good enough".
v
Great questions bal Still
August 9, 2007 - 16:21 ET by TruthMongerGreat questions bal
Still not sure myself, working on it - you've been very helpful
Where does it state that
August 8, 2007 - 13:23 ET by dscottWhere does it state that our Constitution be a carbon copy of the Bible?
Obviously you haven't read John Locke, whose writings influenced the founding fathers otherwise you wouldn't need to ask that question. You will notice that there is an implicit assumption of God. This is something that is not taught in the public schools. http://www.constitution.org/jl/2ndtreat.htm
specifically: http://www.constitution.org/jl/2ndtr01.htm
Sec. 1. It having been shewn in the foregoing discourse,
1. That Adam had not, either by natural right of fatherhood, or by positive donation from God, any such authority over his children, or dominion over the world, as is pretended:
2. That if he had, his heirs, yet, had no right to it:
3. That if his heirs had, there being no law of nature nor positive law of God that determines which is the right heir in all cases that may arise, the right of succession, and consequently of bearing rule, could not have been certainly determined:
4. That if even that had been determined, yet the knowledge of which is the eldest line of Adam's posterity, being so long since utterly lost, that in the races of mankind and families of the world, there remains not to one above another, the least pretence to be the eldest house, and to have the right of inheritance:
All these premises having, as I think, been clearly made out, it is impossible that the rulers now on earth should make any benefit, or derive any the least shadow of authority from that, which is held to be the fountain of all power, Adam's private dominion and paternal jurisdiction; so that he that will not give just occasion to think that all government in the world is the product only of force and violence, and that men live together by no other rules but that of beasts, where the strongest carries it, and so lay a foundation for perpetual disorder and mischief, tumult, sedition and rebellion, (things that the followers of that hypothesis so loudly cry out against) must of necessity find out another rise of government, another original of political power, and another way of designing and knowing the persons that have it, than what Sir Robert Filmer hath taught us.
Sec. 2. To this purpose, I think it may not be amiss, to set down what I take to be political power; that the power of a MAGISTRATE over a subject may be distinguished from that of a FATHER over his children, a MASTER over his servant, a HUSBAND over his wife, and a LORD over his slave. All which distinct powers happening sometimes together in the same man, if he be considered under these different relations, it may help us to distinguish these powers one from wealth, a father of a family, and a captain of a galley.
Sec. 3. POLITICAL POWER, then, I take to be a RIGHT of making laws with penalties of death, and consequently all less penalties, for the regulating and preserving of property, and of employing the force of the community, in the execution of such laws, and in the defence of the common-wealth from foreign injury; and all this only for the public good.
http://www.constitution.org/jl/2ndtr07.htm
Sec. 89. Where-ever therefore any number of men are so united into one society, as to quit every one his executive power of the law of nature, and to resign it to the public, there and there only is a political, or civil society. And this is done, where-ever any number of men, in the state of nature, enter into society to make one people, one body politic, under one supreme government; or else when any one joins himself to, and incorporates with any government already made: for hereby he authorizes the society, or which is all one, the legislative thereof, to make laws for him, as the public good of the society shall require; to the execution whereof, his own assistance (as to his own decrees) is due. And this puts men out of a state of nature into that of a common-wealth, by setting up a judge on earth, with authority to determine all the controversies, and redress the injuries that may happen to any member of the commonwealth; which judge is the legislative, or magistrates appointed by it. And where-ever there are any number of men, however associated, that have no such decisive power to appeal to, there they are still in the state of nature.
Sec. 90. Hence it is evident, that absolute monarchy, which by some men is counted the only government in the world, is indeed inconsistent with civil society, and so can be no form of civil-government at all: for the end of civil society, being to avoid, and remedy those inconveniencies of the state of nature, which necessarily follow from every man's being judge in his own case, by setting up a known authority, to which every one of that society may appeal upon any injury received, or controversy that may arise, and which every one of the* society ought to obey; where-ever any persons are, who have not such an authority to appeal to, for the decision of any difference between them, there those persons are still in the state of nature; and so is every absolute prince, in respect of those who are under his dominion.
(* The public power of all society is above every soul contained in the same society; and the principal use of that power is, to give laws unto all that are under it, which laws in such cases we must obey, unless there be reason shewed which may necessarily inforce, that the law of reason, or of God, doth enjoin the contrary, Hook. Eccl. Pol. l. i. sect. 16.)
If you doubt John Locke had influence on the founding fathers I suggest you read this as this is the foundation for the Declaration of Independence. This is where the founding fathers derived their ideas: http://www.constitution.org/jl/2ndtr08.htm
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. Marcus Aurelius
Great stuff dscott
August 8, 2007 - 15:45 ET by exLibIt's a pretty interesting paradox that the Atheists have created with our school system/Governement.
Knowing full well that our countries history is seeped in the Judeo-Christian tradition, they invented the idea that there was a hard barrier whereby no state-run organization can even speak of things Relgious when teaching. Reinforcing this through the Judiciary was the final brick in the wall.
Now, since you can't talk about "religious" topics in school, it's "impossible" to teach the Judeo-Christian foundation of our laws and history in the Public Schools. Of course this was the purpose behind the founding of the public school system. Since before that schools were local and largely run by Churches.
We now have a whole generation of people running around thinking our founding fathers were either atheists or deists and that somehow as atheists they came up with the greatest form of Government so far instituted.
there it is! But if God
August 9, 2007 - 16:23 ET by TruthMongerthere it is!
But if God be for me who can be against me:)?