Joy Behar Suggests Saints Were Mentally Ill

Photo of Justin McCarthy.
By Justin McCarthy | January 9, 2008 - 15:02 ET

According to "View" co-host Joy Behar, those sainted by the Catholic Church are no more than mentally ill individuals who heard voices. On the January 9 edition of "The View" Behar, who considers prayer a "distraction," suggested that there are no longer any saints due to modern medicine.

"I have a theory that you can’t find any saints any more because of psycho-tropic medication. I think that the old days the saints were hearing voices and they didn’t have any thorazine to calm them down. [laughter] Now that we have all of this medication available to us, you can’t find a saint any more."

Elisabeth Hasselbeck noted the late Mother Teresa, who has not yet been given sainthood, as a modern example. Behar responded by citing Mother Teresa’s doubts and that the Church’s standard has changed due to medical advances.

"That’s why Mother Teresa had issues. Let’s not forget, she didn’t really believe 100 percent like those saints who were hearing voices. She didn’t hear voices. So the Church said ‘okay, she does good deeds. Let’s make her a saint.’ In the old days it used to be you heard voices. You can’t do that anymore."

Hasselbeck disagreed responding that voices had nothing to do with it, but rather a very strong faith asserting "I don’t think they were hearing voices. I think they were committed to their faith and they’d go to death for it."

The transcript is below.

JOY BEHAR: I’m going to get in trouble for this, but you know what? I have a theory that you can’t find any saints any more because of psycho-tropic medication. I think that the old days the saints were hearing voices and they didn’t have any thorazine to calm them down. [laughter] Now that we have all of this medication available to us, you can’t find a saint any more.

ELISABETH HASSELBECK: I don’t think so, Mother Teresa.

BEHAR: That’s why Mother Teresa had issues. Let’s not forget, she didn’t really believe 100 percent like these saints who were hearing voices. She didn’t hear voices. So the Church said "okay, she does good deeds. Let’s make her a saint." In the old days it used to be you heard voices. They can’t do that anymore.

WHOOPI GOLDBERG: They’d cut your hair off. They’d set you on fire. Don’t forget what they did to Joan of Arc.

BEHAR: Because she was hearing voices.

GOLDBERG: They set her on fire. That’s why people stopped saying anything.

BEHAR: Well it was- no, no, no, in the last century before you had medication, they still were hearing voices. I’m telling you.

HASSELBECK: I don’t think they were hearing voices. I think they were committed to their faith and they’d go to death for it.

SHERRI SHEPHERD: Because I hear voices. I hear voices in my head.

BEHAR: Well, duh!

[laughter]

HASSELBECK: I hear voices too.

BEHAR: Medication is in order perhaps!

—Justin McCarthy is a news analyst at Media Research Center.

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Humility, charity, faith and

Humility, charity, faith and love makes a saint. If she were to practice just one, she might understand.

Every time Joy Behar speaks,

Every time Joy Behar speaks, she shows her A$$.

Update:

That’s why Mother Teresa had issues. Let’s not forget, she didn’t
really believe 100 percent like these saints who were hearing voices.
She didn’t hear voices. So the Church said "okay, she does good deeds.
Let’s make her a saint." In the old days it used to be you heard
voices. They can’t do that anymore.

Pope Benedict: call your office.

Joy Behar has the lowdown on the new criteria for sainthood.

If this woman had even an inkling of how stupid she sounds, she would be thoroughly embarrassed.

She has even less idea of the Catholic Church's standards and how they goe about canonization. She should just shut up.

Better to be silent and thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt. -Churchill

 

Mistranscription or just stupidity?

It didn't sound familiar, so I googled 'furosine' and it turns out to be a form of lysine (an essential amino acid) found in dairy products. Perhaps she said "thorazine" but more likely she's taking furosemide (Lasix) and being told the clearer her urine, the clearer her thinking. Electrolyte imbalance would explain most of her behavior.

I thought the same thing. I

I thought the same thing. I think she said "thorazine" and it was misunderstood by whoever did the transcript. Or she mispronounced it.

Liberal tolerance, once

Liberal tolerance, once again on display for all the world.

If a talkshow host had suggested the 12th Imam hasn't returned because it is no longer acceptable to sleep with nine year-old girls, like Mohammed did, there would be outrage and beheadings and apologies. Christianity, however, continues to turn the other cheek and is mocked for it. I understand that's what Jesus meant by "Blessed are those who suffer in my name," but I've really had it with soft targets being attacked by the media.

Joy is confused

Joy is confusing Saint with Prophet. These are two different things. Prophets talk with God. Saints just do Godly deeds. 

 

Then again, Joy not having a clue as to what she is talking about is pretty much the SOP.

 

If you hamper the war effort of one side, you automatically help out that of the other. --George Orwell

I don't understand why Joy

I don't understand why Joy is not considered a bigot. Anything having to do with christianity, she condemns, but she is so outspoken about gays and Muslims. They should have all the rights and if you say anything against them, she calls you racist and bigot. Does she not realize that 95% of the people in the US are religious? Isn't she jewish? Does she not know what happens when people condemn you for your religious beliefs?

Re: Behar's religious background

Joy was born into an Italian-American family and I've heard her mention that she was raised Catholic and went to Catholic school.

Power to the people!

What made one a saint

What made one a saint hundreds of years ago, would make you schizophrenic today.

Gotta love Hasselback though, bringing up a non-saint as an example for saints.  Great stuff.

 

can you even name me more

can you even name me more than 1 saint that "heard voices"?

 St. Bernadette of Lourdes

 St. Bernadette of Lourdes saw the Virgin Mary and heard her speak, even though none of the others present did.

That's just off the top of my head.

But hearing voices is not a requirement for sainthood.

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.

That should be carved into the table in front of Joy's seat.

hearing voices

St. Faustina (20th century), St. Teresa of Jesus (16th century), St. Gertrude the Great (13th century), St. Margarent Mary Alacoque (17th century), St. Catherine of Siena (14th century)... I could go on but let's just say that there are quite a few. Most of the ones I can think of are women. There are men, too, like St. Francis, St. Thomas Aquinas, St. John of the Cross, who heard the Lord's voice but on a limited basis. The women seemed to carry on longer conversations. :)

Hearing voices

Whoa there. "Hearing voices" is merely how some people describe experiences of prayer, because we don't have any better words for it. I pray every day, and I never hear voices in the literal sense. St. Ignatius called them movements of the soul. Others call them spirits. We have all kinds of substitute words for it, because our language doesn't do justice for these experiences.

  • I don't blame skeptics, however. We believers give them too much ammunition. I believe in prayer, but I slapped my forehead and dropped my jaw when Pat Robertson claimed that God told him who was going to win the Iowa caususes.
  • By the way, when God "speaks" to me, he never orders me to seize Czechoslovakia. Not yet anyway. I'll keep you posted.
  • When God "speaks" to me, it's always about trying to get me to be more charitable, to get off my butt, to treat other people more compassionately, etc. God constantly tells me that if I want mercy for being a jerk, I'd better start showing it to others, even the ones who really are jerks.

If other people hear voices during prayer, good for them! I refuse to pass judgment on other people's spiritual experiences. It's not my job to tell God how to communicate.

We see a humble man sawing

We see a humble man sawing wood. Zuba zuba zuba .. ding...NOAH.  Hello someone there?  Oh well ... Zuba zuba zuba .. ding...NOAH.  Huh whos there?  Its the LORD Noah.  Yeah right.  Classic Bill Cosby.

Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.

Moron?

I can forgive Joy for not knowing the difference between a "Saint" and a "Prophet". Ignorance can be cured. But only a complete an utter moron would make the same mistake after I explained the difference a few posts up.

Here, I'll explain again:

There is nothing about being a saint that means you hear God talking to you. Being a saint is about being "a person who has died and has been declared a saint by canonization". That's all.

I'll give you the benefit of doubt and assume that you are simply too lazy to read the posts that came before yours.

 

 

If you hamper the war effort of one side, you automatically help out that of the other. --George Orwell

calm down

ArcherB, I don't know why you are so animated in this post. At any rate, where did you find your definition of "prophet"? As I understand it, a prophet is primarily someone who speaks. Usually, prophets are also spoken to (by God), but it is their act of speaking in the name of God that makes them a prophet.

As far as saints are concerned, they are not necessarily canonized. The word just means "holy one" and there is lots of Scriptural examples of living people being called "saints." And, even some saints, in the limited sense of Catholic tradition, have never been canonized in any formal way.

The most important point, though, is that Behar doesn't know what she's talking about.

Know the difference

Joy doesn't know the difference between s**t and shoe polish so she really should keep her big stupid mouth shut more than open.

Joy isn't making sense, again.

Heroic virtue does not come from mental illness. 

Joy also fails to contend with the issue of miracles.  I suppose the Miracle of the Sun at Fatima in 1917, with 70,000 witnesses, covered by the secular press, was due to everyone having temporary mental illness.

Also Fr. Pio's stigmata! And

Also Fr. Pio's stigmata! And all the cures.

Fatima is a joke. It's

Fatima is a joke.

It's called Mass Hysteria.  Happens all the time with UFOs, does that mean UFOs are real?

Many behaviors associated with religion can be seen as mental illness.  Prayer = talking to an invisible being that no one has ever seen.  It's crazy, yet grown adults do it everyday.

So, according to you, God

So, according to you, God does not exist because he is invisible?

Lotr, That's only part of

Lotr,

That's only part of my reasoning as to why he doesn't exist.

Would you think I was crazy if I was praying to my dead ancestors to help me, guide me, give me stuff?

What's the difference? 

The great physicist and

The great physicist and mathematician Blaise Pascal (a rational man, no doubt) acknoweldged that one simply cannot prove or disprove the existence of God.  In the end, faith is involved, because one cannot know, nor can one even assign a probability of knowing (something even an agnostic acknowledges).  Pascal then went on to formulate a rationale for choosing the belief in God, the very same rationale used by every good Poker player: That if the pot is huge, and a call on your part requires a small wager in comparison, then the rational choice is to call, not fold, even if what you are holding is junk and there's a large chance of losing.  I know you have probably heard of "Pascal's Wager" and dismissed it, but I do recommend reading his essay, because it does illustrate the rationality of believing in God.

Lotr, If Pascal's Wager

Lotr,

If Pascal's Wager is the basis for your religious belief, than what's the point? 

If that's the case, then you're missing the most important aspect of Christianity:  Faith.

Again, I'm not necessarily against the idea of a supreme being, but I defintely don't believe in the CHRISTIAN version of god.  It just doesn't make any sense.  If there is a God, I can he cares about religion. 

Religion is a social construct.  Nothing more.  It's a response to environmental pressures.  People in the ancestral environment created ways to understand the unknown.  Abstract thought led to unfounded explanations for the mysterious.  Over thousands of years, these original myths, just got more and more refined, until you arrive at modern day religion.  In terms of the time line of human existence, Christianity is an insignificant footnote and nothing more than a final product rooted in hundreds of thousands of years of environmental speculation.

The dilemma of non-information

How do you make a decision, or have a belief (which is logically the same thing) when the available information isn’t decisive?

  • Suppose you were on Let’s Make a Deal. Monty Hall offers you either $500 dollars, or whatever’s behind Door #3. What do you do? You don’t have sufficient information to make, literally, an informed decision. Therefore, that renders the decision completely arbitrary. There is no right or wrong decision. No decision is rationally better than any other.

In the same way, we can examine the philosophical arguments for the existence of God. Let me spare everyone the time. We can neither prove or disprove God, using any discipline, in any way. It’s a question about a reality that, if it exists, can’t produce tangible or sensory evidence. Therefore, evidence cannot answer the question. That leaves us in the same position as Monty Hall’s contestant.

However, in the Middle Ages, a fellow named William of Occam came along. He established the basis of all modern science. His argument comes down to a simple answer to the dilemma of insufficient information. Occam’s Razor declares that in the absence of information, we should believe as little as possible. If we don’t have to assume the existence of something, we should avoid assuming it, until the evidence forces us to. And therefore, since the evidence about God is indecisive, Occam-ists hold that belief in God is unnecessary. Therefore, they don’t believe.

  • The obvious response is easy. Occam’s Razor is a useful rule, but it’s a rule of convenience. It isn’t necessary. It certainly isn’t an inherent component of rationality. It’s a rule of advice about what to do with a decision under insufficient information.
  • Philosophy is the analysis of assumptions. Occam’s Razor is an assumption, and an arbitrary one at that.

Therefore, Leon, I say that you are entitled to your belief. If you wish to follow Occam, that’s perfectly fine. You can claim that belief is wrong, dangerous, ancient, trendy, chic, or unattractive, and thank God we live in a country where you can believe what you want. But that’s an arbitrary choice. You aren’t entitled to claim that religious belief is irrational. 

don't waste your time

Word of advice: Never waste your time responding to Leon, our resident troll.

 

It's not Right vs. Left; it is Right vs. Wrong

No...

According to Leon, God doesn't exist because Leon says so.

Neiche had a similar view.

God won that round.

No Mass, God in the

No Mass,

God in the Christian sense doesn't exist.

I haven't ruled out there being a supreme being, but if it does exist, it's certainly not a Christian.

If anything, I'm a Deist.

If there is a God, why would he create a world in which 3/4 of the world would never have a chance to hear about him?

Leon, it's called Free Will

That's why.

What deity would force people to worship him?

I mean, that makes for a good TV villan, but that's not the sign of loving God.

Mass, How is a free will

Mass,

How is a free will a factor for someone that never has the opportunity to learn about Christianity?

There are many many people in the world that will not ever even hear the word 'Christianity' in their lives, so how is their lack of Christian faith a result of free will?

Your argument makes no sense.

 

Unfortunately Leon, I think

Unfortunately Leon, I think you may have just opened the can of worms labeled "Evangelists and Missionaries".

"He was, and is yet, most likely, the wearisomest, self-righteous
pharisee that ever ransacked a Bible to rake the promises to himself
and fling the curses on his neighbors."
-Emily Bronte

Leon,

I notice you chose to respond to my post as opposed to MikeknaJ's below which explains the idea much more eloquently. Perhaps you can say my arguement makes no sense since I didn't expand on it, but I think Mike did a great job of explaining.

I'm not going to try and change your mind, you've got free will to ignore everything we say here about it.

As I've got free will to leave this conversation.

Free Will

It's called free will.

The world God created was sinless and in a perfect state. But because love requires choice, and God desired to have a love relationship with man, He gave man free will. So man could truly love Him. Without free will, there is no love - just like a programmed robot could never love its creator.

That free will led to the fall, when man chose to bring sin into the world. The fall led to the decline of the world and mankind turned their backs on God.

But God still loved us sinful humans. So he sent Jesus, who redeemed us from our sins - if we choose to accept that free gift. Where he could've left us dead in our sinful existence, he gave us a way out. But it's still our choice as to whether we wish to take it or not.

As for those who haven't heard about God, Romans 1:20 states that: "since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities - his eternal power and divine nature - have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse." Essentially, the evidence of God exists in his handiwork.

Maybe the better question is why so many reject God even though so much evidence of him exists? How many people would find a way to shrug off belief in God even if they were witness to an actual miracle? More than likely many would find some way to excuse it as something less than what it was.

 

"The shadow proves the sunshine" - Switchfoot

http://www.xanga.com/mikeknaj

I haven't ruled out there

I haven't ruled out there being a supreme being,

Well get a move on.

You do realize all the world's monotheist religions are on hold till you decide whether they're wasting their time or not.

The old joke. God doesn't think he's Leon.

Check out my exclusive edit of BBC News America's interview with Mrs Clinton: It's news to me!

Leon, the gospel has been

Leon, the gospel has been preached throughout the ENTIRE WORLD. See the Book of ACTS which chronicles the missionary journey of the Apostles. However misguided your comment is not without tangential merit, Jesus did say in the parable of the "sower and the seed" that while the gospel would be shared with ALL, ONLY 25% of those that heard it would retain it and be saved by it. Matt 13 :3-11 with the subsequent explanation of the parable here... Matt 13:18-23. That alone should make you understand that what you have been taught about the "inclusive" nature of Christ is false.

Keith, Are you trying to

Keith,

Are you trying to tell me that the Apostles traveled all over the world?

Wow.  That really blows all contemporary theories of human migration out of the water. 

There are many people, even today, who will live their entire lives never once hearing about Christianity.  This is a fact.  They haven't heard any preaching. 

Leon is dead. And played

Leon is dead.

And played backwards, that's Happy Christmas in Serbo-Croat.

Check out my exclusive edit of BBC News America's interview with Mrs Clinton: It's news to me!

My fellow Mass resident,

My fellow Mass resident, something tells me you haven't actually read too deeply into Friedrich Nietzsche. I mean, misspelling is one thing, but mangling a name to the point that it's clear you've never even glanced at his books is another.

F.N.'s notorious pronouncement "Gott ist tott" is often misconstrued, in my opinion. I'd submit that what Nietzsche was going for was not a flat statement of "fact" (impossible, of course, as the very premise is light-years away from being falsifiable) but a commentary on the manner in which people had begun to regard modernity itself, manifested in industrialism, as a replacement for traditional ways of "knowing oneself", ie religion, agrarian community and fellowship.

Problematic, of course, and also a common source of White Power rhetoric (much of Nietzsche's work has been perverted to that end), usually expressed in terms of the Jewish people being responsible for changing the nature of life from the Earth and the soil to the "manipulation of markets and capital." The film The Believer and the Victorian novel The Prime Minister are excellent examples of this belief at work.

So yes, "God is Dead" is problematic, but I think it is disingenuous to take it at face value. It is more a critique of man than of God.

"He was, and is yet, most likely, the wearisomest, self-righteous
pharisee that ever ransacked a Bible to rake the promises to himself
and fling the curses on his neighbors."
-Emily Bronte

Yes, thank you Jason

I spelled it wrong, I honestly appreciate the correction.

No, I haven't studied him deeply beyond the confines of a philosophy class years ago.

The basis for my comment was a favorite joke, you've no doubt heard or read:

"God is dead" - Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead" - God

My point is that Leon has very strong opinions that he likes to state as fact, simply because he says so.

I'm not a philisophy major so I'm not going to debate Nietzsche's intent in his statement.

Yeah, it makes a good

Yeah, it makes a good t-shirt.

Indeed, it escaped me that your post was aimed more at Leon than Nietzsche. Though I don't think Leon was trying to make statements of fact so much as approach God's existence from the same standards of credulity as most believers do. Only Leon knows for sure (what he meant, that is, not the key to all mythologies and beliefs).

Anyway....lovely Spring weather around here, eh? I just went jogging in a t-shirt...in New England...in January. Creepy.

"He was, and is yet, most likely, the wearisomest, self-righteous
pharisee that ever ransacked a Bible to rake the promises to himself
and fling the curses on his neighbors."
-Emily Bronte

Loving the weather

Yes, Jason. I'm loving the current January thaw we're experiencing. Unfortunately, I'm stuck inside at work, but it's been nice to walk outside at the end of the day and breathe some truly refreshing air.

As for Leon's comment... True, only he knows for sure.

Though I stand behind my interpretation of that comment.

I'm loving it too, and also

I'm loving it too, and also being thankful that I'm not a global warming hysteric, lest I be too frightened to enjoy it.

"He was, and is yet, most likely, the wearisomest, self-righteous
pharisee that ever ransacked a Bible to rake the promises to himself
and fling the curses on his neighbors."
-Emily Bronte

I particularly enjoyed

I particularly enjoyed Nietzsche's

Superman Returns

Though maybe he looked too much like Christopher Reeves, methinks.

Check out my exclusive edit of BBC News America's interview with Mrs Clinton: It's news to me!

Leon does not exist.

leon said:


Many behaviors associated with religion can be seen as mental illness.
Prayer = talking to an invisible being that no one has ever seen. It's
crazy, yet grown adults do it everyday.

I've never seen you. I guess you don't exist and I'm crazy for typing this at you. You're crazy for talking to the operator on the phone because you've never seen her, meaning she doesn't exist, and yet you talk with her and even hear her talking back. You are a Schitzo!

 

 

If you hamper the war effort of one side, you automatically help out that of the other. --George Orwell

Archer, That is a

Archer,

That is a terrible comparison b/c I know that the operator is a real person otherwise they wouldn't be employed as an operator.

Plus they talk to you.  Does God talk to you?  With a voice?

Behar and New York Society for Ethical Culture

Keep in mind this wedding announcement for her daughter:

Tony Hileman, the senior leader of the New York Society for Ethical Culture, officiated at the Lighthouse at Chelsea Piers in Manhattan.

Justin, I had no idea about this until your post got the better of my curiosity!  Things seem a bit more clear about Joy!

 

Code word for "atheism"

Society For Ethical Culture = a bunch of atheists.  Bingo.

The liberal ignorance is on VIEW daily

WHOOPI GOLDBERG: They’d cut your hair off. They’d set you on fire. Don’t forget what they did to Joan of Arc.

BEHAR: Because she was hearing voices.

GOLDBERG: They set her on fire. That’s why people stopped saying anything.

Why are these people so ignorant? It's pathetic.

Joan of Arc WAS NOT executed because she "heard voices!"

She was executed by the ruling English (yes the English crown ruled a big part of FRANCE at the time, including Paris) because the "voices" told her to drive out the English.

The fact that she became a figurehead for the French, and she led forces which defeated the English in battle was the real reason.

Her trial and execution was all political. She had to die.

She was too brave for her own good. And her torture, sexual assault and death was a horrible event.

So much so, her executioner thought he would be damned to hell for what he did.

But it was all a cynical exercise in real politick.

Check out my exclusive edit of BBC News America's interview with Mrs Clinton: It's news to me!

Not Fair Jack, The View

Not Fair Jack,

The View isn't representative of Liberals.

It's representative of gossiping, clucking hens with too much time on their hands and too much of a soapbox from which to preach.

The problem is ignorant WOMEN, not ignorant liberals.

The VIEW is the worst and I'm still baffled as to why Newsbusters covers these old, ignorant bags.

It's representative of

It's representative of gossiping, clucking hens with too much time on their hands and too much of a soapbox from which to preach.

no id say that pretty much typifies liberals.

Agreed...Leon.  But if

Agreed...Leon.  But if these chuckleheads are determined to peddle their [all too frequently] cartoonish version of liberal politics--and thus influence a not insubstantial audience--they are certainly fair game for NewsBusters.

Jer 

Jer

You mean they are not typical liberals?Behar isnt representive of all liberals?Dont you all walk around with notes in your hand?

2007's second most annoying

2007's second most annoying celebrity. Joy Behar.

(is she even considered a celebrity?)

(is she even considered a

(is she even considered a celebrity?)

Only on Newsbusters...

Quite the opposite, in fact -- Saints suffer from SANITY

I suppose if BEHAR were in charge of things, she would put those displaying heroic virtue on medication.  Kind of reminds me of Nurse Ratched "It's medication time!"

Joy can't comprehend God's love

The thing that Joy can't comprehend is that even ignorant bigots like her are loved by God. May God's Grace soften her heart of stone before it is too late and she is lost forever.

 It is sad that someone with the name "Joy" has none.

 

It's not Right vs. Left; it is Right vs. Wrong

Joan of Arc

God will settle His own accounts, but for ABC to not fire Joy Behar over her degrading Joan of Arc or Jeanne D'Arc as her real name is in French is Disney DISGUSTING.

To portray one of the greatest liberators by the hand of God who was a woman as in need of dope is DISGUSTING.

Joan basically by God's Grace ended the 100 Years War. She ended the seige of Orleans in 9 days, was wounded on the battlefield and refused to leave and was later a prisoner after co commanding part of the French Army by Royal decree.

All French leaders invoke the memory of Joan of Arc as she is one of the greatest people who ever lived.

Yes she heard voices, but whether one believes in it or not, I would be like Lincoln in hearing Grant drank.........I would find is brand and make all the generals drink as Grant won wars.

Joan was literally murdered by trumped up charges. Joy Behar would know about that as her same kind of ilk have been lying about President Bush for the past 8 years.

Joy Behar is ignorance in pure form and it is DISGUSTING to make jokes about one's successful faith, in a woman who was a warrior liberating France, WOUNDED IN BATTLE, refuses to leave the field and is a prisoner who is later murdered by a state run execution.

That is real funny Joy Behar.....are Jew jokes next as they are people of faith too and supposedly your own people?

 

 

*HIC IACET ARTORIVS REX QVONDAM REXQVE FVTVRVS

Lame Cherry, I find it

Lame Cherry,

I find it hard to take anything you say seriously, especially concerning the work of GOD, when you openly cheered the death of Bhutto simply b/c you disagreed with her.

I'm glad you joined the thread about mental illness, b/c you're the most psychotic person on this forum.

Again, I really hope someone is monitoring your posts.  You are a truly terrifyingly insane individual.

LC -

I usually sit on the fence post with your opinions/views.

However, everything you said regarding Jeanne D'Arc IS spot on, backed up by the fact her "voices" were documented in her trial testimony ... and IF those voices could have been simply explained away as mental illness, why then was SHE so successful on the battlefield in following them?

 

I would add just a couple things to your post:

1)  that when France sold out Jeanne D'Arc to the British they completely lost their "balls" from then on ... and I see that as a curse on France from above for what they did to her

2)  since grade school (Catholic) Jeanne D'Arc has been my first and biggest hero.  As legend would have it, when they sifted through the ashes after her burning they came across her heart, which defied burning.

http://www.jeanne-darc.dk/p_multimedia/theater/0_shaw/shaw.html

the British... The

the British...

The English, please, drill!!!

Great Britain did not exist until the Act of Union between Scotland and England in 1726.

Check out my exclusive edit of BBC News America's interview with Mrs Clinton: It's news to me!

JB

What would I do with out you?!? 

 So, we are in agreement regarding the French "balls" ... or lack there of ???     ; ^)

LC: The idea that Behar is

LC: The idea that Behar is Jewish keeps coming up. Her birth name is Italian, she was born into an Italian-American family, and I've heard her state that she was baptized a Catholic and went to Catholic school. Not to say she couldn't have converted. If you can find definitive information re: whether or not she is Jewish, please post. Thanks. 

Power to the people!

No mention of Jewish but

 Birth Name

Josephina Victoria Occhiuto
 

Used to work in a mental hospital.

Has a bachelor's degree in sociology.

And she's much older than I thought:

October 7, 1942

http://www.imdb.com/...

HEARING BEHAR'S VOICE

When I hear Behar's voice I want to take medication! What a dolt!

there are no longer any

there are no longer any saints due to modern medicine

 

Hey, Joy ... GET SOME!

Joy

Just when you think Joy can not possibly say anything more stupid than her last comment, she comes out of nowhere and exceeds any and all previous Stupid remarks. It is like she has a limitless supply of asinine comments stored up in her otherwise unoccupied brain. How on God's Green earth did this woman ever get past the security guards at a studio to even be considered for a job. I am told she is educated and was once a teacher. Thank God she isn't around anyone's children anymore. She is the one that should be under the care of a health professional and taking drugs.

***WARNING WARNING

***WARNING WARNING SCRIPTURAL CONTENT AHEAD*** This is ONLY for persons interested in such things, if not, SKIP IT!***

Joy Behar is simply suffering under the Catholic delusion as to what constitutes a "SAINT" in the first place. Because of their false doctrine I can't even blame her. She's actually RIGHT. The so-called catholic "saints" were hearing voices and they weren't the voices of God according to Paul. Up until the death of the last Apostle (John) there was only ONE FAITH (eph 4:5), they all taught the water baptism in Jesus name and reception of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues ( Acts 2:4 Acts 2:38, Acts 19:1-6 etc). However during their lifetimes ALL of the apostles warned of a "falling away", a perversion of the gospel. Jude the son of Mary warned thusly, 

Jude 3,4

 3Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

 4For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Paul prophesied about the coming false church to the Bishop Timothy here, 1Tim 4:1-4, in this prophecy he included TWO SIGNS by which you would know the false church, that according to Paul, was listening to the doctrine of demons. They are highlighted and those of you familiar with the Catholic church will know that, indeed, they are the only "Christian church" to do both of these things. 

1Tim 4:1-4 NIV

1The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 

 

2Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 

 

3They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth.

 

As I'm sure many of you know, the Catholic Church is the only "christian church" to both forbid people from marrying (priests, nuns) AND to command the abstention of certain foods ( no meat on Friday). After the death of John the evil people that Jude warned about and who Paul warned just about everyone about, took over the doctrine and perverted it. This is the reason that skull full of mush Joy Behar, thinks that the Saints of god are delusional. Those who have been called saints by this false church most certainly were not. In the new testament "sainthood" requires the newbirth which Jesus describes here (John 3:1-8) it is of the "water" and of the "spirit" and there is evidence of it. The false churches do not teach this. 

The false church teaches that "saints" are quasi-mystical beings that have to perform at least three miracles and be voted into "sainthood" by a process called "canonization". Nothing could be further from the truth. In the old testament a "saint" was merely a "follower" of God as opposed to a "pagan" or a "heathen", in the New Testament that term is reserved for followers of God in the form of Jesus Christ. That's it. No miracles, other than the proper reception of the Holy Spirit necessary! Here are some scriptures which should make it clear that the "saints" in question are neither DEAD nor "special" in any other way than a regular "Holy Ghost filled" believer is special, that is. In this day they are so rare, that it might indeed rise to the level of "specialness" but the point remains the same. Many of the Apostles began their epistles with lengthy salutations. They'd thank everyone from the Bishop or church leaders they were writing to all the way down to the congregation, usually described in general as "The Saints". 

 

Here David issues,  in song, a command for "saints" to "fear the Lord".

Psalm 34:9
O fear the LORD, ye his saints: for there is no want to them that fear him.

Why would dead people in heaven with the Lord, have reason to fear him? Clearly this is written to those who are alive and may have occasion to fail the Lord. 

Psalm 106:16
They envied Moses also in the camp, and Aaron the saint of the LORD.

Clearly Aaron was alive while he was being "envied" by those who were jealous of his proximity to Moses. They were also similarly discomfited by Moses being a "Prophet". 

Psalm 132:9
Let thy priests be clothed with righteousness; and let thy saints shout for joy. 

Here you see the saints being "lower" in stature than the "priests", in that the priests are the leaders in the synagogue and the "saints" mere, congregants. 

In the ninth chapter of the Book Of Acts a man named Ananias was contacted by the Lord. He was told that he was the one who would see to the conversion of Paul. Up till that time Paul was known as Saul and had a reputation for putting the followers of Jesus Christ (saints) in prison and even killing some of them. Saul's reputation obviously was well known and Ananias answered thusly to the Lord....

Acts 9:13
Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:

Notice he said that Paul or Saul as he would be known at this point, had done much evil to the saints which were AT Jerusalem, again living folk, not dead 150 yrs as Paul was still a relatively young man and wouldn't live to 150 in any case!

Acts 9:32
And it came to pass, as Peter passed throughout all quarters, he came down also to the saints which dwelt at Lydda.

Peter came to minister to LIVING PEOPLE who DWELT in Lydda, not corpses! The reason that Peter came to Lydda was so that he could raise a young woman named Tabitha from the dead and show the power of the Lord that rested within him. Tangentially, I've just come back from teaching the Apostolic Doctrine in Memphis and in New York. In the south it is common particularly in black churches to call a great pastor or Bishop, "Apostle". Anyone who saw the movie by Robert Duvall named "the Apostle" will be familiar with this.  While they may be great men of God they are no APOSTLES.  When we "lay hands on the sick" it is so that our faith may be intermingled with their faith and Jesus might heal them. Sometimes he does, sometimes he doesn't. The apostles had the delegated POWER to heal the sick 100% of the time. They also had the power to raise the dead, something none of these "one verse Charlie's" are capable of doing no matter how well they preach a sermon. These abilities were given to the Apostles in the 10th Chapter of Matthew, btw. So as you can see the perversion of doctrine exists even in "true" churches and must continually be corrected.  Anyway, Peter comes down to raise the girl up and it was described this way...

Acts 9:40-42 (King James Version)

  40But Peter put them all forth, and kneeled down, and prayed; and turning him to the body said, Tabitha, arise. And she opened her eyes: and when she saw Peter, she sat up.

 41And he gave her his hand, and lifted her up, and when he had called the saints and widows, presented her alive.

Now clearly Peter was calling the male believers in the town who were outside wailing because of the girls death so that they might see the work of the Lord. He was NOT calling people out of their graves to witness this event. LOL. 

In closing,  perhaps no greater proof of the false interpretation of the Catholic church can be found than in the 26th Chapter of the Book of Acts. Paul the Apostle is imprisoned in King Agrippas court. Paul and the King had long conversations during which Agrippa was almost persuaded to repent and follow Christ.  During one such interrogation, Paul confessed his past sins to the King. He told how it was he that was a persecutor of the church and it goes a lil something like this....

Acts 26: 9-11

 9I verily thought with myself, that I ought to do many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth.

 10Which thing I also did in Jerusalem: and many of the saints did I shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests; and when they were put to death, I gave my voice against them.

 11And I punished them oft in every synagogue, and compelled them to blaspheme; and being exceedingly mad against them, I persecuted them even unto strange cities.

Now, unless you think that Paul was hauling corpses off to jail the Catholic Church doesn't have a Clue as to what it's talking about. There are many others but I trust I've made and OVERMADE my point, as is my wont. There is truth and there is falsity, those who were prophesied to follow the doctrines of demons (1Tim 4:1-4) are the ones who started the Universal church. This later became known as the "Catholic Church". They violate commandments by praying to Mary, Peter or just about ANYBODY other than Christ. They force their adherents to blaspheme the express command of Christ uttered here (Matt 23:9) by calling priests "father". They follow a Pope who thinks himself to be the mediator between God and man. A role expressly reserved for Jesus Christ, in fact that usurpation of the glory of Jesus' sacrifice will not go "unrewarded". It was through the mercy of God that HE wrapped himself in a body (John 1:14) so that by becoming our MEDIATOR he could reconcile the world to himself. Only a blasphemous and deceived person, would take the glory of Christ, onto himself.

1Timothy 2 :5, 6

5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

 6Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

If this doesn't show you that they don't know what the heck they're talking about on ANY front, I don't know what would. Peace. 

 

   

Hey Keith. Was that you?

Today, a "Keith" called in to talk to Jim Vicevich on WTIC, and he mentioned religion.   Was that you?

Hey RJ, no that wasn't me. I

Hey RJ, no that wasn't me. I 've never heard of Jim Vicevich, although if you listen to him I might like him. Is he on in L.A. anywhere?

Nope. Back here in CT, Keith

Vicevich is a very good local talker who calls himself a "Republitarian."  

Jim is strongly religious, and doesn't mind religious talk, but he doesn't usually instigate it. 

This guy Keith is black, calls in periodically and often talks about religion, so I figured three matches were worth asking about.   I know you say you're in LA, but I thought maybe you had people here to visit.

Keith, Newsbusters resident

Keith, Newsbusters resident Know Nothing (in all senses of the term). 

Without recognizing the ordinances of Heaven, it is impossible to be a superior man. - Confucious

Dude, it's only the devil in

Dude, it's only the devil in you that hates the truth. Every word that I wrote was laboriously backed up with scripture, something you clearly are incapable of doing and so you resort to name calling like a child, or a GIRL. You might have noticed that my post came with a warning, perhaps you were reading something that was intended for others. If you stop minding other peoples business, you won't be as offended.

Every word that I wrote was

Every word that I wrote was laboriously backed up with scripture

Which of course makes it right...

Your anti-Catholic bigotry

Your anti-Catholic bigotry is nothing close to the truth, regardless of how you twist the Scriptures to do it.  Even the Devil can quote Scripture.  Your Know Nothing bigotry has been done before, and eventually will prove just as worthless.  As Rosie would say, "Google it".  Oh, and for the name-calling portion of this message, you ignorant twit. 

Without recognizing the ordinances of Heaven, it is impossible to be a superior man. - Confucious

So Keith, I understand you

So Keith, I understand you are espousing that there are no Saints but those alive today? Are you saying God dosent speak to men today? Thats what is sounds like to me, here. IF so, how do you go from being a Saint while here on earth, to a non-Saint after death? Im not real clear on this doctrine. Dident know one could loose ones Sainthood.

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

Saints are dead

No one alive has ever been canonized. I'm not Catholic, but I think you have to be dead for a certain number of years before canonization can even be considered.

So, NO. There are no saints alive today or ever!

Also, having God speak with you means you are a prophet, not a saint.

If you hamper the war effort of one side, you automatically help out that of the other. --George Orwell

 

Archer...I dident think

Archer...I dident think Keith would answer me. I think he is off in la-la land somewhere on some of his thinking.

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

"I understand you are

"I understand you are espousing that there are no Saints but those alive today? Are you saying God dosent speak to men today? Thats what is sounds like to me, here."

Dear Bass,

Since this is the first time you addressed me respectfully I will do you the courtesy of same. I did not say anything that you "gleaned", from my post. I said that the Catholic invention of voting someone into sainthood was ridiculous. I showed through scripture letters written to LIVING PEOPLE who were called "saints". Thus destroying the papal initiative which says they have to be dead "x" amount of years. I pointed out that all that is required for one to be a saint in the new testament is water baptism in Jesus name and in-dwelling of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues. If you read either the 11th or 15th chapters of the Book of Acts you'll see that this evidence was used to quell dissension among the Apostles who were upset that Peter went to preach to the Gentiles. Upon hearing that the Gentiles at Cornelius' house in Acts 10 :44-45 had received the Holy Ghost the SAME way that the Apostles did (acts 2:4), they were mollified. After Peter recounted the events of Acts 10 he winds up this way... Acts 11:15-18

15And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

 16Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

 17Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

 18When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life. 

And that friend, is all it takes to be a "saint". Judas by the way did lose his "sainthood" although this took  place before the Holy Ghost was given, he as an apostle, was most certainly a follower of Christ if only for a while. Yes God speaks to men today, those who are saved according to the Bible not according to man, and unfortunately, there is a difference in many cases. Glad, we could have a civil exchange.

So which Bible cult are you

So which Bible cult are you a part of? Christ founded one Church and one Church only. He promised to be with His Church until the end which means the Catholic Church will survive to the end. You are sadly mistaken. Jesus never told anyone towrite a Bible to be saved. The canon of the Bible was put together by the Catholic Church in 398 A.D. It is a Catholic book. It is NOT the sole route to salvation. The Sacraments in the Church are. It is Christ who initiated the Mass and told us UNLESS we eat His flesh, we are not saved. Anyone can interpret the Bible as they wish which if Protestantism is so splintered.

“He promises to found the church, assigning immovableness to it, as He is
the Lord of strength, and over this he sets Peter as shepherd.” Cyril of Alexandria,
Commentary on Matthew (A.D. 428).

'But what is
also to the point, let us note that the very tradition, teaching, and faith of
the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles and
preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded; and if anyone departs
from this, he neither is, nor any longer ought to be called, a Christian.' Athanasius,
Ad Serapion 1,28 (c. A.D. 350).

 

'We believe
in One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. Council of
Nicea I, Nicene Creed, (A.D. 325). 'But in learning the Faith and in professing
it, acquire and keep that only, which is now delivered to thee by the Church,
and which has been built up strongly out of all the Scriptures.' Cyril of Jerusalem,
Catechetical Lectures 5,12 (c. A.D. 347).


"The
Church's preaching has been handed down through an orderly succession from the
Apostles and remains in the Church until the present. That alone is to be
believed as the truth which in no way departs from ecclesiastical and apostolic
tradition." Origen, First Principles 1,2 (c. A.D. 230).

"And besides, also, one only Catholic and Apostolic Church, which can
never be destroyed, though all the world should seek to make war with it; but
it is victorious over every most impious revolt of the heretics who rise up
against it. For her Goodman hath confirmed our minds by saying, 'Be of good
cheer, I have overcome the world.' " Alexander of Alexandria,
Epistle on the Arian Heresy, 12 (A.D. 321).

"And Peter, on whom the Church
of Christ is built, against which
the gates of hell shall not prevail..." Origen, On John, 5 (A.D. 232).

 

****WARNING WARNING MANY

****WARNING WARNING MANY SCRIPTURES COMPLETE WITH ANALYSIS AHEAD** IF YOU DON'T WANT TO READ IT ***SKIP THE POST ENTIRELY*****

 

Dear Rbosque

I am not part of a cult. I am part of the one faith, the APOSTOLIC FAITH as delivered to the apostles. The quotes you cite are from people who were ALREADY lost, as far as the doctrine of salvation is concerned.  

*  Christ founded one Church and one Church only. 

 

Absolutely true. The only problem is that it wasn't the Catholic church! It was the APOSTOLIC CHURCH founded and grounded in the APOSTLES DOCTRINE.  I will give you ten thousand dollars for every time you find the word "Catholic" in scripture.  You can't because it's not there. You blithely went past the part where I showed you that the Catholic Church was prophesied to BE the FALSE CHURCH ! ( 1Tim4:1-4) I showed you also how the Apostles were contending with false teaching even in their day, and how they prophesied that it would get exponentially worse after they died! Jude 3.4. The "canon" of the bible was indeed put together by the "catholic church" in 398 but THEY DIDN'T WRITE THE SCIPTURES, they just "collected" them! Notice the true power of Jesus in that he used the false church to put his truth together and He even forced them to include all of the things which show them to be FALSE!!!! You've heard of the ten commandments,