Michael Moore Forces MSNBC to Address Dodd's Sweetheart Countrywide Deal

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Has it really come to this? Is MSNBC so in the tank for the Democratic Party that it takes far-left documentary filmmaker Michael Moore to bring up malfeasance by a leading Democrat?

Moore appeared on MSNBC's Sept. 29 "Hardball" to promote his new film "Capitalism: A Love Story." With exception of "The Ed Show" fill-in host Lawrence O'Donnell noting the Senate Ethics Committee had cleared Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Conn., of wrongdoing and only reprimanded him verbally, over the last couple of months, MSNBC's prime time shows have ignored a deal Dodd got on a mortgage with Countrywide. That is, until Moore brought it up.

"Chris Dodd may have a problem after being in this movie, I think," Matthews said.

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However, as Moore explained, he was already in trouble to begin with.

"Well, he already has a problem," Moore explained. "The Democratic Party needs to tell him, you can't run for reelection. We're going to lose this seat because of what you've done."

Moore first pointed out Dodd, as chairman of the Senate Banking Committee, had added a provision to the TARP bailout that allowed executives of AIG and other bailed out entities to pay out bonuses. When Matthews pointed out that Dodd did so at the behest of the Treasury Department, Moore insisted it was ultimately up to Dodd.

"This guy is the head of the Senate Banking Committee - who tells him what to do?" Moore said. "He's supposed to be representing the people. And he made the decision to do that."

Moore told Matthews he got the goods on Dodd through a "whistle-blower."

"But, in the film, I have a whistle-blower, a guy who worked for Countrywide who personally helped Chris Dodd get these loans in an expedited fashion," Moore said.

It was called the "Friends of Angelo" program. "Angelo" referred to Countrywide CEO Angelo Mozilo. Under the program, certain people got VIP treatment. Moore said it was no coincidence the chairman of the Senate Banking Committee was getting this sweetheart deal.

"He's [Mozilo] the head of the company," Moore said "And - and the head of the Banking Committee, Senator Dodd, is suddenly a friend of Angelo?"

Moore explained he used his Web site to recruit this whistle-blower. He also made the astute observation - this was a scandal largely ignored by the media.

"I put a call out on my Web site to people who work on Wall Street or in the banks," Moore said. "Here's your chance to come clean and tell the American people the real stories of what had happened. And that's what you see in this film. You are going to see things and hear things you have not heard on the evening news."


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I can't believe I'm writing

I can't believe I'm writing this, but kudos to Michael Moore for forcing the issue on Chris Dodd.

You have to give credit where credit is due, and it certainly is in this case.

 

"Reason and persuasion are the only practical instruments against error.  To make way for these, free inquiry must be indulged" - Thomas Jefferson

Wow.  The dreadful Moore

Wow.  The dreadful Moore receiving kudos from Newsbusters?  I can't wait to see the rest of this thread.

xoxo - Ted

U love Ted.......

I actually agree with you, Ted.  This could get interesting quickly.  

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe. - Albert Einstein

ILTK

I don't speak for all of NB.

 

"Reason and persuasion are the only practical instruments against error.  To make way for these, free inquiry must be indulged" - Thomas Jefferson

Of course.  But NB started

Of course.  But NB started the thread.  

xoxo - Ted

→ Drupal

Focus!

The story is that even Michael Moore is more astute than MSNBC.

Let's not assume NB has him beatified, just yet. 

Please, Tex

Give me my moment.  I've been trying tell people for months that Moore isn't completely, 100% evil, but no one's a listenin'.  So excuse me if I'm feeling a little vindicated this morning. 

xoxo - Ted

→ Vindication

Have your moment.

Enjoy.

Vindication?

It doesn't take much for you to feel vindicated apparently.

"Most members haven't seen a single one of his movies, while always being the first to condemn the authenticity."

I've never eaten a pile of dog crap either, but I'm pretty sure it tastes at least as bad as it smells. It's the same with a M. Moore flick. When you consider all the BS he spews during interviews, it's a pretty safe bet his movies are filled with more of the same BS. And no one with at least two brain cells has to see his latest flick to catch the hypocrisy. Sadly, that leaves out most liberals.

Fine.  Enjoy your little

Fine.  Enjoy your little bubble where only conservatives are ever right. 

xoxo - Ted

But, ILTK

But, ILTK, the word "kudos" only appeared in my comment.  

I wanted to make sure you weren't extrapolating my comment to represent the opinion all of the folks on NB.

 

"Reason and persuasion are the only practical instruments against error.  To make way for these, free inquiry must be indulged" - Thomas Jefferson

There's no way your comments

There's no way your comments could represent the opinions of all NBers.  In fact, most members won't even comment on this thread fearing they'll be tagged a hypocrite.  See, you paint Moore in a positive light here, and 6 months from now when another negative story is written about him, the comments from today's post will come back to bite someone in the butt. 

xoxo - Ted

Don't bet on it Ted

I'll comment. 

MM is a big fat jerk.  Nothing he has to say interests me one iota.

I hope he fails, too.

 

 

Has anyone here ever seen

Has anyone here ever seen Roger and Me? 

xoxo - Ted

→ No Ted

I haven't seen Roger or you. 

No, But

Has anyone here ever seen Roger and Me?

No, but if you tell us where you guys hang out we'll keep an eye out for you two.

"Reason and persuasion are the only practical instruments against error.  To make way for these, free inquiry must be indulged" - Thomas Jefferson

ditto

I agree with Blonde.

You can get help for your

You can get help for your feelings of paranoia and your tendency to project that paranoia onto others.  Really.  It's treatable.  Get some help.

 

"Reason and persuasion are the only practical instruments against error.  To make way for these, free inquiry must be indulged" - Thomas Jefferson

ILTK

I/we'll have you know, whenever libtards do the right thing, NB and the right acknowledge it. Always. We're not deranged here, we just see the truth. It's why we're free, as it were.

 

I still don't understand how

I still don't understand how grown people don't feel stupid using words like "libtards."  And what's the equivalent on the other side - conservatards?  I don't know, sorry, it just annoys the hell out of me.

ArkZip -

Are you a libtard? You seem touchy on the subject.

The conservative equivalent would probably be "RINO".

I agree that adults should use adult language, otherwise they are just big, fat, stoopid poopie-heads!

repugs, rethugs, lousy freeper trolls, repukes, etc

the list goes on and on.  Go over and surf democratunderground and see for yourself.

Zippers

Some deserve the label, like big, fat, poopie-heads (H/T Teamcheeser, above) Michael Moore.

I do like "Conservatards" though. :) That would not annoy the hell out of me -- as wingnut, Repugs, etc., don't, but just opens the door for me to give back, in kind. It's all part of the war games of political dialogue on blogs. It's also the only area (soft name-calling) where I do, granted, stoop down a bit. But I and most here construct and write out our thoughts eloquently, and we DON'T CURSE! :) (THAT is annoying, and truly childlike and a distraction... and a way to intimidate in an attempt to win or end a debate/discussion.)

:) 

You have a bigger problem arkansaszipper... your lie was exposed

over on the Michael Moore thread.

I see you have been avoiding it for obvious reasons.

what is it that's said about stopped clocks?

MM is the ultimate stopped clock. Eventually he's gotta get one right.

Looks like he's losing weight too. What's next, some loss of tunnel vision and a cranial-rectal reversal?

 

WWW.GS2AC.COM. 2nd Amendment Grass Roots Action in the Bay Area, CA. We're not all "Breakfast Cereal" folks here! :)

At least he's somewhat more consistent than the kamikazie media

...on this one point.

 Not when it comes to wealth of course - as in his own vs. other peoples'. 

 

"Democrats; Breeding voters like farm animals since 1962"

hahahahaha...what

hahahahaha...what unimaginable hipocrits!  you hate michael moore when he exposes currupt capitolists, but love him when he exposes democrats!

criticallythoughtless.......

Um, it doesn't make us hypocrites if we call out someone when they are wrong, and then praise them when they are right.  What would make us hypocrites would be for us to call him out when he is wrong, and then ignore him or deride him when he is correct.  You should probably look up both the spelling and the meaning of the word hypocrites.   

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe. - Albert Einstein

What's hypocritical is that

What's hypocritical is that every time Moore's name is brought up, he's considered an evil doer for doing what he does best: exposing corruption, most often through political ties.  Most members haven't seen a single one of his movies, while always being the first to condemn the authenticity.

xoxo - Ted

→ Again, Drupal

So we're wrong?

Michael Moore didn't really present Cuba's healthcare system as a positive showpiece? 

Or do you honestly think Cuba's system is "authentically" better than ours?

In my previous travels to

In my previous travels to Cuba, I've found it to be a lovely country, filled with...eh, forget it.  I can't keep this up.  I haven't seen Sicko.  In fact, it's been a while since I've seen a Moore flick.  They've been getting repetitive and boring.  

xoxo - Ted

Troll

Crawl back under your bridge and quit trying to start fights.

"I May Be Changed By War, But I Will Not Be Defeated By It" - Audie Murphy

Oh you're right.  There

Oh you're right.  There should only be one side of the argument represented here.   

xoxo - Ted

U love Ted....

Actually, that's not hypocritical, either.  By definition, there would have to be a "but" in your theory.  You say this, but......... get it?  Regardless of that, your premise is still flawed in that nobody is complaining about what he does for a living, but instead for the obvious bias by which he does it.  He is famous for half/truths and outright lies.  But when he actually does something right, it would be hypocritical of us if we did not acknowledge that.  Since he's not exactly an original source for this knowledge, there is no "But if Michael Moore had said the same thing about Bush, you'd be freaking!" argument.  He has just been the latest to acknowledge MSM failure.  Had he been the original source, and we were here touting it as gospel after chastising his use as a source previously, you might have a case.  But even in that example, Moore might be an acceptable source in a "See, even the left wing wackos see the truth!" sort of way, which this almost qualifies for, minus the original sourcing.

As to your perception that Michael Moore is an unknown who we haven't even bothered to properly view, you are mistaken.  I have seen "Roger and Me" (was living in the Mid-Michigan area at the time, working for the auto industry and knew very well that Moore either deliberately or moronically told more half/truths than truths, unveiling only portions of the overall picture that helped him make his point), "Bowling for Columbine" (Which was garbage), "Fahrenheit 9/11 (more tripe) and Sicko (Commie Loving Tripe that I couldn't make finish watching for the reasons you stated above).  I will likely view Capitalism as well, as I don't believe you can understand your own argument fully without understanding what your opponent believes.  But let's get serious.  Anyone who has actually watched these films can see that this isn't about exposing anything.  It's about pushing an agenda and making money.  Nothing more. 

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe. - Albert Einstein

Great.  Now since you

Great.  Now since you brought up the half truths in Roger in Me, let's discuss.  What bothered you about it? 

xoxo - Ted

Roger and Me: for Teddy Lover....

Roger and Me blatantly skews the sequence of events, the time frame and the location of evens while ignoring Roger Smith's or GM's side of the story or the UAW's part in the decline of Flint, as well as Michigan.  Want more specific answers?

Flint was deteriorating well before GM started lay-offs, and had been renowned in Michigan as a worse cesspool than even Detroit for a very long time.

The events of the movie, i.e. the closing and layoffs, take place gradually over a twelve year period, not the much shorter implied , though deliberately never specified, time period.

The 11 plant closings affected 4 states, not just Flint.

The fact that GM has a responsibility to it's shareholders is never referred to.  Nor was there any mention of the fact that people's retirement investment were being effected by GM's losses.

The unfair demands of the UAW are never delved into.  That could be a 6 hour trilogy in itself.

As a matter of fact, there is no accounting of why GM closed the plants in the first place, nor of the efforts GM made to ease the blow suffered by it's workers.

In addition, the film makes everyone in it, except Mikey, look like a dumba$$ through ambush tactics (which I never agree with, regardless of the ambusher or their point) and editing.

Just the notion that Flint's collapse was so sudden is ridiculous.

And I won't even start in about how much of a liar Moore was in making this film or crediting himself with the idea for the film.  When the film came out, the REAL union activists who came up with the idea of Roger and Me talked about it to a reporter for the Saginaw News, but I cannot remember his name.  I am going to research that and if I can find the story, I will post it here later.  But this film was not about helping the people of Flint.  It was about a white collar writer injecting himself into the blue collar activists for the sake of his own ego and for the sake of money.  Moore didn't care about Flint, and he used it to push his own anti-capitalist agenda.  And that was the opinion of the activists he was supposedly supporting.  I will find the article, if I can, and post it here.  The ACTUAL activists felt he hurt their cause.

Now, tell me.  What did, or didn't, bother you about the film?

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe. - Albert Einstein

Awesome post Tim H!

Fahrenheit 911 was 70% lies and distortion.  I suspected that Roger & Me had the same factual shortcomings, but I had never really looked into it.

Moore is a liar and a propagandist, yet no one dares to confront him when he is interviewed on tv.  I'm glad to see that there are still some people who refuse to accept his propaganda as gospel. 

So, only capitolists are

So, only capitolists are corrupt? We hate corruption on any level -- but, one needs to be able to think critically to notice this. Anyone without critical thinking skills falls into the trap of exposing his true ignorance.

___________________________________ 

"mmm, mmm, mm. Barrack-Hussain-Obama." - The liberals cool-ai

Ignorantthinker

Please link to just one "capitolist" Moore has exposed.

You get one chance, and one only.

Prove what a criticalthinker you are. 

Hey, Cool Arrow...

Taking any bets on whether or not this will be another hit-n-run trolling?  

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe. - Albert Einstein

ooh, i guess you are unaware

ooh, i guess you are unaware of the flick Roger and Me, but thats to easy.  I gonna go with Cheney, or the folks from Lockhead and martin

While yer looking up wirds and their meenings....

 

Define a "capitolist", and explain their difference from a "CAPITALIST".

http://gjresult.com

 

Right, WLJ,

and in that same vein; what the heck is a "Lockhead"?  Is it the same as a "Rockhead", or perhaps "airhead"? Or, perhaps it's a comedy duo, as in Rowan and Martin?

Or could he possibly be referring to a small aerospace outfit called LOCKHEED Martin? 

You should change your

You should change your moniker to idioticthinking.

We are consistent here.  We don't "hate" Moore for exposing corrupt capitAlists...we criticize him when he is wrong, which is most of the time, and credit him when he is right...

BTW - the corrupt capitalist in this scenario is a Democrat....talk about hypocrisy?  You obviously haven't got a clue.

Not exactly captialism

The last thing that Dodd is, is a capitalist.  Complicit, corrupt business deals between business and government is better described as Statism or Facism. 

"I've sentenced boys younger then you to the gas chamber.  Didn't want to do it, but I felt I owed it to them."  Judge Smails 

Very true...but in the

Very true...but in the twisted mind of idioticthinking a capitalist is someone who profits through nefarious activity....hence the irony...

Kingfish......Fascism......

Thank you for the point.

 

Fascism: a form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation or victimhood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion.

 

I look at this and try to find where Libs have seen, in their warped minds, Republicans in the fascist mirror they gaze into.  While The Dems have not yet arrived at the Fascist point yet, they are on the march.

Let me inject into the definition a bit........

 

Fascism: a form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline (ObamaCare and Welfare), humiliation or victimhood (Common way for Democrats to pass legislation, i.e. Obamacare, Taxes, Abortion Rights, etc...) and by compensatory cults of unity, energy and purity (Environmentalist Movement, Pro-Abortion Movement, NOW, ACLU, etc....), in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants (ACORN, MoveOn.org, MSM, ACLU, etc...), working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites (Democrats, George Soros, Hollywood, etc....), abandons democratic liberties (Repeated attempts to dismantle the constitution and/or rewrite the constitution or misinterpret it as a "Living Document", i.e. freedoms of speech, religion and the right to keep and bear arms, etc......) and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion (Not there yet, but moving, I fear, in that direction)

 

Just something to chew on.......... 

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe. - Albert Einstein

Interesting....

 

I sarcastically asked for the difference between a "capitOlist" and a "capitAlist".

senutur dudd is the poster child for capitolist.  If it doesn't put money in politicians pocket it's regulated out of the profit business.

 

http://gjresult.com

 

more likely the truth is

Dodd's off the reservation and either has dirt on The One or is making a political push against him. So it's time to eliminate the threat within the ranks.

WWW.GS2AC.COM. 2nd Amendment Grass Roots Action in the Bay Area, CA. We're not all "Breakfast Cereal" folks here! :)

CT

are you on lunch break from high school?

criticalconditionthinker

"...you hate michael moore when he exposes currupt capitolists,"

If you can dig up one instance on NB where someone is hateful or virtriolic/mad/upset at Michael Moore for exposing a corrupt capitalist (with an "o"), I'll wire you $1,000. We'll PM each other bank info.

 

MrShy -

Your money is safe.

~I AM ABSOLUTELY INCENSED

That Michael Moore exposed a corrupt capitalist!!! INCENSED, I tell you!! LIVID!! APOPLETIC, OUTRAGED, IRATE, and just plain ol' P!SSED OFF!! *waves arms, stomps feet, pulls hair, takes a swig from flask and staggers off into the underbrush*

That high-pitched scream you hear is the lying leftist under my heel.

http://newsbusters.o...

The nerve of some

The nerve of some people. 

xoxo - Ted

~Ezzackly

The nerve.... *hic*

That high-pitched scream you hear is the lying leftist under my heel.

http://newsbusters.o...

what she said.

*pssst* when will I get my cut?

____________________________________________ 
The Emperor, he has no clothes

This is only a CYA on moores

This is only a CYA on moores part, like he said he does not want this seat to go to a Republican so he wants Dodd to quit.

Old Story

Isn't Moore just re-hashing some news that's at least six months old, if not older?  Countrywide's sweetheart deals to leading Dem and Republican politicians was widely covered by the non-liberal press a long time ago.  Moore is getting pretty lazy if he thinks this is news.  But I guess he is just taking advantage of his sympathetic medium when HE exposes something that really isn't anything new. 

"I've sentenced boys younger then you to the gas chamber.  Didn't want to do it, but I felt I owed it to them."  Judge Smails 

Yeah...

This is why tigers eat their young.

X

The blind pig etc

Moore revealing Dodd

is this a snippit to lure Republicans to the movie?

I wouldn't go see the movie unless...

...there was a scene where a naked Michael Moore himself (no stuntman) where raised by a 10 ton crane,dipped in molasas and then sprayed with fiberglass attic insulation. Whould have to be real, no CGI here! And at that I would only pay matinee prices!

"The bureaucracy is growing to meet the needs of the growing bureaucracy"

 

Dayum, MM!  That is a

Dayum, MM!  That is a visual I really did not need!  Now I need to make up a new batch of brain bleach.  That, or see if I can buy some over at the Rott.  Sheesh!  Have a heart next time! 

"A communist is someone who reads Marx.  An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx."  Ronald Reagan

Sorry Mike! How about if I

Sorry Mike! How about if I add: his genitalia would have to be pixalized during the scene? Should add only about a buck fifty to the special effects budget! 

"The bureaucracy is growing to meet the needs of the growing bureaucracy"

 

team america **** yeah!

I kinda like the Team American version of what happens, it's funny as hell.(not the whole movie, but a lot of it is hilarious)

-Jon

no way

I wouldn't credit this guy for making it rain in a drought stricken area, he's still a scumbag and a manipulator of the facts.

If anything, to credit him is the same as saying Mussolini made the trains run on time.  Mussolini was still a killer.

-Jon

Yeah, he's almost exactly

Yeah, he's almost exactly like Mussolini in every way - awesome analogy.  Not overkill at all...

arkansaszippers, why you ran off w/o responding to my query last

time I saw you.

Remember?

You agreed with that radical statement concerning similarities between radical islam and Christianity?

"... awesome analogy.  Not overkill at all..."

Oh, now your statement makes sense.

It must be a troll day festival here at NBs today!

 

 

Ahh yes, the one that

Ahh yes, the one that attacks me after I've signed off for the day - I remember you.  If you would be so kind as to check up on your insults, you'll see that I did respond to your last little post.  And don't be afraid of people who don't agree with you - they're regular people just like you.  They aren't fairy tale creatures who live under bridges...

arkansaszipper/ILTK/whoever whenever September 22, 2009:

Here is my post that you call an insult and left immediately after it was posted to you:

AZ, you came in agreeing with an absurd statement concerning

September 22, 2009 - 15:32 ET by pahuber

Christianity.  Now you want to say that we just do not understand?


Let me ask you if you know the basic difference between a cult or a religion. 


Do you understand the word hermeneutics or exegesis?


Following?


If you understand the above words... then let me ask you how much
effort other religions of this world place on these concepts with their
sacred scripture...

If you understand this then even if you do not believe in God or
Jesus you would at least understand the significance of correct
interpretation on scripture.  I know of no organized churches that use
this scripture to kill their enemies...  rather they are to love their
enemies."

Where is the insult?  Maybe you saw one in there...and yet you may need to help me out... lol

arkansaszipper you have been busted for dishonesty...lying?  What are we to think of you now?

 

Oh that's so sweet!  You

Oh that's so sweet!  You think that I'm arkansas?

xoxo - Ted

Not puting anything past you ILTK... you're NBs ownEddie Haskel

Slimy & Slippery.

I see you wish to change the topic... well... let arkansaszipper just fry in his own juices...lol

Hey, he accuses me exactly the way YOU do.  

Imagine that.

Stop playing dumb with

Stop playing dumb with everybody - I'm talking about the following:

 

Silly me, who knew arkansaszipper commented only to deride
September 23, 2009 - 08:57 ET by pahuber

Christians instead of making a serious thoughtful reply to this article.

Earlier in this thread I gave him an opportunity to comment on this issue intelligently and was promptly ignored. 

To those who wonder why I seldom take the time to give such
opportunities and jump right to calling the trolls out please see my
above post that was conveniently ignored by another troll.

There is no doubt (at least with the sane) that arkansaszipper's comments were only to inflame and not discuss...  duh.

 

And yes, some people go home eventually - we have a life.  So maybe check to see if someone is even logged on anymore before calling them out.  As if conversation with you is so riviting that I can't bear to leave my computer, lest I miss one of your little nuggets of wisdom...

Playing dumb? Notice the date? It was the next day. You left

and never replied until, for some reason, you show up on the 29th saying ok let's discuss.  LOL you are so transparent.

I will direct NB's readers attention to my original and may I add thoughtful post that was promptly ignored by, arkansaszipper.

lol! lol! LOL!!! Ha,

lol! lol! LOL!!!

Ha, c'mon now, really?  LOL?  How old are you, 15?

arkansaszipper, you have no answer. You have been exposed.

My last post was on the 23rd and you come on the 29th wanting to pick up again only after I had mentioned that you ran off?

Get real.

I'm sorry, I don't come here

I'm sorry, I don't come here every single day.  Is there a statute of limitations on replies that I don't know about?

arkansaszipper, tap tap tap... you are so busted... LOL!

Where is that insult in the question and sure you just logged off and did not see the question.

How about that you made cannot debate on an equal footing w/o accusing me of something.

Like I said, use your brain

Like I said, use your brain and try reading the actual thread.  Do you need me to post a link, or can you handle this on your own?

zipperdance

quit spamming nonsense.

Paging Arkansaszipper! arkansaszipper! Cleanup in isle 3....

Now where did he go???

Your comment at the bottom

Your comment at the bottom of the page genius - the one calling me out for not replying to your original comment.  Don't act like you don't know which one I'm talking about.  Check for yourself - it's the one I replied to.

I will let others decide for themself, arkansas zipper.

Please, save the indignance.  You are what you post.  

You have been busted.

pahuber, ILTK, and arkansas

pahuber, ILTK, and arkansas zip - You're all out of order. How many times do you have to be reminded to take your p*ssing matches to the Woodshed?

"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out
of other people's money."

—Margaret Thatcher

Since my comments were redacted by someone perhaps an

explanation is in order.

Stating the truth to someone who pops in and out at will is not a "p*ssing match".

The said someone in question was arkansaszipper.  Who was criticing someone else for "hyperbole".  Since I have not seen this individual since the 22nd of this month and since he decided not to answer my thoughtful post I decided that this was a great time to bring it up...

If one is truly worried about threads or our posts being degraded perhaps attention should also be placed on those who come on NBs for the sole purpose to inflame or tweak or spam.

I for one do not mind being called out if I am truly wrong, but please... if you are going to call someone out then do not be selective and 'strain out a nat while swallowing a camel'...  

Paul

I can't be on this site all

I can't be on this site all day - I have to go home sometime.  Stop saying I "pop in and out at will."

And just because you don't agree with me doesn't make me a spammer, or whatever else you're accusing me of.

logic versus similarity

You do realize that there are several definitions of analogy, right?  I wasn't using the one involving logic or similarities, it was about comparisons when it came to people being scumbags and doing something in the guise of "good."

So maybe using a killer is a bad example.  How about Kennedy and how he supposedly helped people despite killing Mary Jo....oh wait...Sorry, let me see...I know, the guy called Sheets who has everything from sidewalk areas to streets to buildings named after him, even though he was a Klansman.

Would that be better?

-Jon

I guess.  Kennedy was a

I guess.  Kennedy was a douche though, I'll give you that one.

Unlike Libiots

Unlike libiots, I can recognize when one of their own does a good thing. Kudos to Moore, but I still think he's a loon.

Speaking of Dodd, I cannot wait until Peter Schiff takes that Senate seat!!!!

liberals eat their own

Something that's real common among a lot of liberals is that they will go after someone else who's a liberal if only to make themselves look good.  After all, Soetoro called KWest a jack@$$ and we know West's a limolib.

In this case, it's more than dog eat dog but in the end, that's what it amounts to.  That's what we're seeing here.

-Jon

That's an excellent point.

That's an excellent point. They will eat their own, just so they can say "LOOK, I'M NOT BIASED (on this issue)!"

Olberman did it recently. I didn't watch the episode along with his 4 viewers, but I laughed while watching the clip on YT.

So Moore claims to have broken the Dodd story!

Next he'll claim to have invented the internet.

carolina09

Yea, it is pretty funny, except that Matthews might believe him.

It was well covered - broken - and the MSM knew all about it - and kept it out of public view. Perhaps this is one of the best known original investigative reports:

Countrywide's Many 'Friends'

I keep a glossy copy on our coffee table for the un-informed. 

(;~> gary

 

Moore's a Charlatan

Did anybody else catch Moore's song and dance on CNN's EC 360 last night, pimping nationalized healthcare? 

His entire argument was "Trust me, I know better than anyone else, just nationalize healthcare and we will all be happier." 

Ok Mike, whatever you say.  Anything else you want? 

He was on CNN threatening non Progressive Democrats this morning

Michael Moore we will come after you if you don't pass the public option,  we will organize you won't be relected in 2010. We? What does he have a mouse in his pocket? There isn't a rock star running in every congressional race in November of 2010. My best guess the Democrat Party, loses a lot of seats period just because of the economy, and the bureaucrats trying to take over American's lives.

This organizing of the American Idol crowd of voters - you know the ones who voted for Obama/Biden, where is it going to happen? Because looking at Michael Moore, my best guess would be at the nearest Dunkin Doughnuts SARC.

 

 

Whether you agree with MM or

Whether you agree with MM or not what I personally think is that he is necessary.  He is a check on corporatism.  I know people here have this idea that if you're anti corporate then you're some how a marxists, (true a lot are).  

But I don't stick up for rich corporations, as a small business owner myself, because i don't have the tax loop holes they enjoy or getting my products from 5 cents a day labor like they do. And i firmly believe what Jefferson said: merchants have no country.  meaning these fat cats don't give a darn about the USA only profit. thats their right, but its my right to not like their lack of loyalty to the USA and its workers.

so I think Moore, who i disagree with on many issues, is good to keep these insanely rich men in check. we all know what enron did to it's poor employees and the poor people of california with the black outs. Just be weary of hyper powerful corporations. our country was not founded to be controlled by them  

" meaning these fat cats

" meaning these fat cats don't give a darn about the USA only profit. thats their right, but its my right to not like their lack of loyalty to the USA and its workers."

Sajc05, the purpose of a business is to make money.  It's not to provide anyone a job.  When labor prices itself out of the market, or gets government to place unnecessary regulations on business (especially when said government exceeds its enumerated powers), then that business will, in an attempt to stay in business, go where labor costs are lower, and government regulation is not so onerous.

"A communist is someone who reads Marx.  An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx."  Ronald Reagan

So a communist gov't making

So a communist gov't making it's workers work in sweat shops for virtually zero money, and inviting US corporations to have their product made their because there is no standard of living in communist china is as you put it "labor being priced out of the market" ?????  

 

i'm for capitalism but not the unfair practice of it.  health and human safety laws are a good thing, worker civil rights is a good thing. china has none of that. So companies that don't outsource have to compete with companies that get their products from china and UNFAIRLY undercut their prices. and what happens? thousands lose their jobs.  but to you they were simply "priced out of the market"  hate to tell you but the market is rigged. 

The market is indeed rigged

The market is indeed rigged ... by the unions.  The original minimum wage law was enacted at the behest of the union (textile workers, if I am not mistaken) in order to stop "their" jobs from moving from the heavily unionized north to the non-unionized south.  It didn't have a thing to do with a "living wage".  Compare and contrast the value of wages and benefits paid by auto companies that are unionized (Government Motors, Chrysler, Ford) and those that are not unionized (Toyota USA, etc).

If you don't think unions and the government can run companies out of business through unreasonable demands, consider there are currently no televsions made in the US.  How many other industries have completely, or nearly completely pulled up stakes and moved their operations off shore or over seas?  The textile industry comes to mind.

However, not all the time do the unions get their way.  Consider the strike against McDonnell Douglas Aircraft in St. Louis (1997, I think).  The union went on strike because McDonnell Douglas "did not pay a living wage".  MD hired a firm named STS Aviation Services to provide temporary workers for the duration of the strike.  STS paid the temps $15/hour.  Four weeks into the strike, with only 50% of the number of workers, MD was getting 80% of prestrike production with higher quality than the poor, underpaid, overworked union workers had been putting out.  MD told the union to take a hike, and the union caved on their demands.  Also, Smith and Wesson told their union to either improve the quality of their work, or they would move the factory to a southern right-to-work state; no ifs, ands, or buts.  The union must have figured S&W meant what they said.

You are partially right: no US manufacturer can compete with, say, China where wages are, what, a dollar a day (if that)?  It is up to the unions not to make their demands, and the government not to make their regulations, so onerous that, in order to make a profit that a business has to move manufacturing out of the country.  So far, neither the unions nor the government seem to have learned the lesson.  Instead, they demonize the corporation for wanting to stay in business.

"A communist is someone who reads Marx.  An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx."  Ronald Reagan

Change?

Michael Moore hasn't been the same since Bill O'Reilly slapped him in "An American Carol".

Screw Mikey...he's only

Screw Mikey...he's only upset that the March of Socialism will be slowed by obvious corruption that could lead to Republicans (who knows, maybe even Conservative ones) getting elected next year.

Of course, he could go straight to the top with this tactic, but I'm not sure at what point they might throw The One under their Dumocrat bus...once he turns out to be inept even to the most loyal of the Inner Party members.

One of the 34% who thinks George W. Bush was a great President. One of the 86% who wants to bring back the stock and pillory.