Just hours after MSNBC "Hardball" host Chris Matthews calls Rep. Michele Bachmann, R-Minn., the "Mata Hari of Minnesota" and Rolling Stone editor Matt Taibbi says "a guy huffing glue out of a paper bag" was making more sense the Bachmann, MSNBC "Countdown" host Keith Olbermann comes in for clean-up duties.
On the March 27 broadcast "Countdown," Olbermann confirms that Michele Bachmann Derangement Syndrome is alive and well at MSNBC. Dedicating the top of his show to Bachmann, Olbermann accuses the Minnesota congresswoman of breaking "several serious laws," for suggesting the American people should rise up against some of the liberal nonsense going on in Washington, D.C.
"The identity of the speaker is unmistakable, but this is not your standard red meat from Michele Bachmann, she may have broken several serious laws," Olbermann said.
Olbermann, referring to an interview Bachmann did with Sean Hannity earlier in the week, interpreted Bachmann's comments to mean she was inciting physical violence to overthrow the government.
"The Minnesota Republican, first having called for revolution on Saturday as part of her ‘armed and dangerous' conversation, but by the time she appeared on Sean Hannity`s radio show, Mrs. Bachmann did not say she was speaking metaphorically when she again called for revolution against the, quote, ‘economic Marxism of the Obama administration,'" Olbermann said.
But, Olbermann didn't rely on his analysis alone. He called on Newsweek's Jonathan Alter to reaffirm his view of Bachmann's alleged indiscretions.
"We might dismiss this. I mean, Michele Bachmann - it sounds crazy," Olbermann said. "But just because it sounds crazy, does that mean she's not to be held accountable for these things like this? I mean - are there not federal laws which specifically prohibit advocating the violent overthrow of the government of the United States?"
Alter, not surprisingly, agreed - but he wasn't in favor of enforcing these laws because they would "inhibit free speech."
"There are. You know, I'm not personally in favor of trying to enforce that because I think it does inhibit free speech and odious speech has to be defended. But what we should call for is what you just mentioned - accountability," Alter said. "If this were a Democrat, we had been saying this, there would immediately have been a lot of calls for the Democratic Party to rein in you know, this whack job on their side of the aisle. We are not seeing those calls right now. We are not seeing Republican leaders in the House of Representatives being called upon to force her to retract those comments."
So now from MSNBC's insightful analysis we have Michele Bachmann - World War I spy, glue huffer and federal lawbreaker. What's next?
Editor at Large
Comments Policy
Hmmm I don't see Matthews the drooler on the list below?
March 28, 2009 - 15:18 ET by RpeggioWell, at least we know from the numbers below that very few people hear or care what MSNBC talking heads have to say...
CABLE NEWS RACE
THU., MARCH 26, 2009
FOXNEWS O'REILLY 3,420,000
FOXNEWS HANNITY 2,987,000
FOXNEWS BECK 2,374,000
FOXNEWS GRETA 2,160,000
FOXNEWS BAIER 1,940,000
FOXNEWS SHEP 1,888,000
MSNBC OLBERMANN 1,322,000
CNNHN GRACE 1,300,000
MSNBC MADDOW 1,208,000
CNN KING 1,144,000
CNN COOPER 1,118,000
Law school
March 28, 2009 - 15:56 ET by easygoerNoted legal scholar Keith Olbermann.
Constitution Confers Immunity on Members for Speeches
March 28, 2009 - 18:00 ET by allanfArticle I Section 6 of the Constitution gives members immunity for any statements they make in their House. It reads:
Keith may have missed that tidbit.
Constitution? Constitution??
March 28, 2009 - 19:59 ET by TailgunnerI seem to remember something about there being a 'constitution' once; but that was before the Fairness Doctrine silenced conservative radio, the Mexico Drug Violence Protection Act made all American privately owned firearms illegal, and the Obama AmeriCops began their bloody door-to-door searches.
Oops...someone's at the door...(click-click)
NOLI PUGNARE ME OCCIDERE
OOPS! Tingles didn't make
March 28, 2009 - 16:34 ET by MANstreammediaOOPS! Tingles didn't make the cut.
Well then, here comes.....
March 28, 2009 - 16:37 ET by connman.....The Fairness in Cable News Media Doctrine. Sponsored by some Libtard congressperson and supported by Olbi wan the baby. Keep it up Madame Congresswoman don't let the useful idiots scare ya!
We ought to just mass mail that ratings list to Bathtub boy
March 28, 2009 - 16:47 ET by Lord ErondI mean that's about it.
"To sin by silence when we should protest, makes cowards of men" -Ella Wheeler Wilcox
Correction..
March 28, 2009 - 19:17 ET by northoneAccording to these ratings (for March 26), obviously almost no one gives a rats ass what any of those morons on CNBC have to say.
amazing stats
March 28, 2009 - 20:02 ET by NiftySwellWon't be long before weekend 4 am infomercials on FOXNEWS overtakes Olbermann for ratings. I leave it on 24/7 now that Beck has completed the line up. I do miss a straight liberal perspective without a lot of challenging but they do a good job of bringing in honest to goodness hard nosed liberals to defend their points unlike the weak kneed weenies on the other stations.
Go Foxnews!
A law was, in fact, broken..
March 28, 2009 - 15:26 ET by krendlerI think the crime Keith Olberkook is referring to is Oblasphemy: Saying anything that could be interpreted as not fully supportive of The Cult, The Exalted One and His Calling (to spread the wealth).
Other perpetraitors include Rush Limbaugh, Joe the Plumber and Sarah Palin.
Good to see Obama and his supporters so eager to re-unify and heal America after big, bad Bush and Cheney had destroyed it.
Oblasphemy.....
March 28, 2009 - 16:39 ET by connmanI like that!
Pssssst <whispers> Emperor Barry isn't wearing any clothes!
"Oblasphemy"? That's really good.
March 29, 2009 - 20:12 ET by CKA in Red State USASo saying Obamadamn is definitely out?
Dissent?
March 28, 2009 - 15:33 ET by slickwillie2001Suddenly dissent is no longer patriotic, is it? I predict that next the liberals will bring back talk of prosecution for sedition and treason and all those scary wartime words.
What a bunch of crap.
March 28, 2009 - 15:39 ET by superconWhen has this happened even once?
"If this were a Democrat, we had been saying this, there would
immediately have been a lot of calls for the Democratic Party to rein
in you know, this whack job on their side of the aisle."
Olbermann spews that sort of garbage every night and now he has the balls to condemns it when someone else directs it toward his man crush.
What a fraud.
Because with a name like Obama... you know it has to be good.
I'm doing my part to combat global warming
March 28, 2009 - 15:41 ET by c5thenI've blocked MSNBC from my satellite receiver in the hopes that MSNBC has to stop broadcasting. That will save an awful lot of hot air being released into the atmosphere.
How about everybody else here doing the same thing? Better than turning the lights out for an hour and much more enjoyable too.
Hey, I got the wrong "CHANGE"!
www.loyaltoliberty.com
Agreed
March 28, 2009 - 16:23 ET by ChaitealoverI removed MESSNBC from the remotes for both of my TVs long ago - I think it was the first time Kiethy opened his mouth there. I'm a frequent channel surfer, this way I can't accidentally even catch a glimpse of either him or the drooler.
Chai
“...Bury me on my face,” said Diogenes; and when he was asked why, he replied, “Because in a little while everything will be turned upside down.”
Funny
March 28, 2009 - 15:47 ET by Joe CamelAlways funny to hear nut jobs like those on the left talk about sedition and such, when it is a Republician or conservative. I lived through eight years of that crap with the leaders and followers of the Demonrats ranting and raving, the protests, signs..and they pick out a piece of a statement..go figure.
The day is coming, and it won't be just talk soon..it is coming..and nothing we are going to be able to do to stop it..
But when they did it
March 28, 2009 - 15:59 ET by Kat Outta the Bag" I lived through eight years of that crap with the leaders and followers of the Demonrats ranting and raving, the protests, signs.."
But when they did it, it was "patriotism", remember?
What laws, be specific!?
March 28, 2009 - 15:53 ET by ConservativeFL"Dedicating the top of his show to Bachmann, Olbermann accuses the Minnesota congresswoman of breaking "several serious laws," for suggesting the American people should rise up against some of the liberal nonsense going on in Washington, D.C."
What laws has she broken Keith? Please be specific. Please remind me where you went to law school?
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the democrats believe every day is April 15." Ronald Reagan
He Went To Cornholio College
March 28, 2009 - 17:48 ET by HoosierEmHe showed his diploma on his show and everything just to prove the point.
Otter Logic
March 28, 2009 - 15:53 ET by KC MulvilleRemember Otter's Defense for the toga party from Animal House? Otter began his argument by admitting to taking liberties with the female guests. Then, using absurd generalizations, fuzzy associations, and simple hyperbole, Otter managed to pretend he was indignant because he would not stand around and let anyone "bad mouth ... the United States of America!"
Olbermann did the same thing here. The difference, though, is that Animal House was a comedy.
____
As for Alter, I'm reminded of the line from Hitchcock's Notorious: Alter is "protected by the enormity of [his] stupidity."
In a direct competition between the "violent overthrow of the country" and "odious free speech," Alter says that odious free speech is more important. Of course, we all dismiss that as hyperbole, because no one could be that stupid.
I'm no Olbermann fan, but
March 28, 2009 - 17:01 ET by JerI'm no Olbermann fan, but Bachmann's conduct has been irresponsible and inexcusable. She clearly distorted Greithner's views, and such distortions can have calamitous consequences.
That said, Madame Konstantin's line you quote from Notorious is one of my alltime favorites.
Jer
Bite me, Jer.
March 28, 2009 - 17:12 ET by CobraManBachmann is my Rep and I proudly support both her and her statement. It IS time for people to stand up against the Liberals and force them out of office. Don't like that? Oh well.
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.
The US Constitution
Unless you're a fetus.
The US Supreme Court
Bite yourself,
March 28, 2009 - 17:20 ET by JerBite yourself, Cobra...
You're free to support and vote for Rep. Bachmann. I'm free to express my opinion about her conduct. Good grief.
Jer
It's just a shame
March 28, 2009 - 17:24 ET by ArminiusYou don't base your opinion on the facts. That makes you sound like a liberal moonbat.
I checked out the links...I
March 28, 2009 - 17:37 ET by JerI checked out the links...I read her comments. So unless the sources are bogus, then yes my opinion is indeed based on facts.
But, I am sorry you're disappointed.
Jer
Shes right about Gitner
March 28, 2009 - 17:42 ET by CobraManShe's 100 percent correct about Geithner, so how can you consider her to be incorrect in her analysis of him?
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.
The US Constitution
Unless you're a fetus.
The US Supreme Court
Good grief is right, but the grief is yours
March 28, 2009 - 17:28 ET by CobraManJer, you don't just state your opinion, you insult and demean any Republican who dares to speak out against Obama.. A typical liberal response, btw. Bachmann is far more intelligent, and far more important, that you are willing to admit. She's also 100 percent right about Obama and his administration. I hope that you see more and more of her in the years to come, after Obama has passed into the pages of history after his one term in office. Your liberalism is going to die a very painful death over the next four years. And good riddance to it, too.
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.
The US Constitution
Unless you're a fetus.
The US Supreme Court
you don't just state your
March 28, 2009 - 17:41 ET by Jeryou don't just state your opinion, you insult and demean any Republican who dares to speak out against Obama.
That's absolute nonsense. But since liberalism will be dead within four years anyway, why work yourself into such a lather?
Jer
You insulted my Rep.
March 28, 2009 - 18:18 ET by CobraManYou insulted my Rep. You called her irresponsible. It's my duty, my honor, to defend her against ad hominid attacks. Would you do any less for someone you support?
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.
The US Constitution
Unless you're a fetus.
The US Supreme Court
I voted for Obama. Is it
March 28, 2009 - 18:34 ET by JerI voted for Obama. Is it my duty and my honor to defend him against the thousands of ad hominems at this site by rushing from thread to thread and telling each and every author of a particular ad hominem to "bite me".
Al Gore was once my representative. If I were to defend him against all the attacks on his character, it would consume every single second of every single day.
But, for the record, my statement about Bachmann was not an ad hominem. It was an opinion about her conduct.
Jer
It should be
March 28, 2009 - 18:41 ET by CobraManIt should be. Unless, of course, you agree with those "attacks."
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.
The US Constitution
Unless you're a fetus.
The US Supreme Court
Move on
March 28, 2009 - 18:42 ET by CobraManI already apologized for the "bite me" remark on a different thread, so move on already
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.
The US Constitution
Unless you're a fetus.
The US Supreme Court
Move on?
March 28, 2009 - 19:02 ET by JerWell, okay...as long as it means I don't have to "blow you" either.
Jer
Bite me harder, Jer.
March 28, 2009 - 19:58 ET by CobraManJer, get off that high horse you're riding, ok? The lack of O2at that altitude is affecting your judgment. You're no better than I am when it comes to personal attacks in public settings. The only difference is that you're here to defend yourself from my statements but the subjects of YOUR attacks are not.
You insulted a respected Congresswoman in a public forum with an ad hominid attack yet feign indignation when I do the same to you in response to that attack. I wonder just what you're offended by, my language? Is that it? I guess it's ok to perform ad hominid attacks, but only if you use "appropriate" language, right Jer? Yea, if you're a hypocrite. Are you a hypocrite?
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.
The US Constitution
Unless you're a fetus.
The US Supreme Court
CobraMan... PLEASE READ
March 29, 2009 - 21:03 ET by JerCobraMan...
PLEASE READ THIS CAREFULLY:
I did not make an ad hominem attack against Rep. Bachmann. Repeat: No ad hominem attack. None. Zip. Zero. Nada. Check your dictionary. It was not ad hominem.
Do I make myself clear?
Jer
Perhaps the correct term is....
March 29, 2009 - 21:19 ET by Tailgunner...ad feminem.
NOLI PUGNARE ME OCCIDERE
Nice try, but no cigar.
March 29, 2009 - 23:56 ET by JerNice try, but no cigar. :-)
Jer
~Jer
March 28, 2009 - 18:43 ET by choselife3xI voted for Obama.
I forgive you, darling. Just don't let it happen again.
That high-pitched scream you hear is the troll under my heel.
BTW, that's exactly what you did.
March 28, 2009 - 18:46 ET by CobraManBTW, that's exactly what you did for Olbermann when you claimed that Bachmann was both irresponsible and inexcusable in her statements. So, yes, you DO defend those you support even though you claimed you're not a fan of Olbermann, correct?
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.
The US Constitution
Unless you're a fetus.
The US Supreme Court
Jer is lonely...
March 29, 2009 - 21:06 ET by MotherLet's bow our heads and pray for the poor soul who picks arguments out of thin air [and who gives creepy proposals online].
Mother...
March 29, 2009 - 21:10 ET by JerI thought you had a sense of humor. Guess I was wrong.
Jer
and yet Jer
March 28, 2009 - 17:27 ET by botgpopeye-Pelosi's hypocritical distortions are just fine right?
"Outside of a dog a book is man's best friend,------------inside a dog it's too dark to read" ---Groucho
Here's irresponcibilty...
March 28, 2009 - 17:40 ET by CobraManYou want irresponsibility Jar? Try Obama's irresponsibility with his administration to date. Case in point: The Stimulus bill. There's an example of Obama turning responsibility over to Nancy Pelosi and handing all responsibility, and any possible blame, to someone else. It's the same with TARP, that's another example of Obama turning all responsibility, and all blame, over to someone else. In this case, Geitner. It's the same with the last spending bill too. he's trying to pass responsibility for that onto Bush, is he not?
It looks like Obama is going to be the most irresponsible President in history. He can't even answer a questioning without having to refer to someone else's words over a teleprompter. How responsible is that, anyways?
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.
The US Constitution
Unless you're a fetus.
The US Supreme Court
LOL - I'm on my iPhone, so
March 28, 2009 - 18:00 ET by KC MulvilleLOL - I'm on my iPhone, so I'll be brief!
When you're out of power, you can't get anywhere through votes. In these partisan times, the majority won't allow you to persuade through honest debate. What's left? All you have left is drama.
I'm not sure she distorted anything, at least not much. Geithner is asking for power from the federal government to take over private industries. Where did the federal government get the right to dispense that power in the first place?That's the issue. Citing the commerce clause doesn't grant absolute power.
Hey, Jer, you think Bachmann's over the line?
March 28, 2009 - 19:40 ET by TailgunnerI fully support the violent overthrow of an oppressive and tyrannical government.
Exactly as written in the Declaration of Independence.
Why in the hell do you think Americans are guaranteed the right to keep and bear arms?
Incidentally: Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn, two key patrons of Obama, also advocated the violent overthrow of the country.
And they took it a bit further than Ms Bachman.
But I don't see Soros stooge Olbuttman getting his panties in a wad over those two treasonous domestic terrorist bombers.
NOLI PUGNARE ME OCCIDERE
Shooting down B-52's?
March 28, 2009 - 20:00 ET by JerIn other words, you theoretically support the violent actions of Ayers and Dohrn, but believe they were simply mistaken about the oppressiveness of the government they attacked.
Or do I misunderstand you?
Why in the hell do you think Americans are guaranteed the right to keep and bear arms?
I guess to shoot down the B-52s the tryannical American government will use for air strikes against the rebel militias.
Jer
You got a point Jer
March 28, 2009 - 20:13 ET by general companyI will need a few F-22's as well
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
LOL g c...or at least a
March 28, 2009 - 20:20 ET by JerLOL g c...
or at least a few shoulder-mounted Stingers. I mean fair is fair.
Jer
P.S. Damn! That is one beautiful plane.
Patriot Missile system, nowadays
March 28, 2009 - 20:27 ET by CobraManIt's the Patriot Missile system, nowadays. Stingers are what the Talaban used against Russia, although they didn't work against American bombers and assault craft in the Afghan war, did they? I guess our counter measures are better than most people realize. So, forget the Stinger missiles, you'll only get yourself vaporized by a JDAM.
Oh, and I agree with you, it IS a beautiful plane. Not just in function, but in form. It's almost artistic in its design.
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.
The US Constitution
Unless you're a fetus.
The US Supreme Court
With half the signiture
March 28, 2009 - 20:35 ET by general companyAs the F-117 hard to believe it is 25yrs old already, and ready for retirement?
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
I was one of the first F-14A Plane Captains...
March 30, 2009 - 13:59 ET by Tailgunner...when the Navy was in the process of transitioning from the F-4.
The F-14 was removed from active service years ago.
The aircraft carrier I served on from 1978-81, the USS America, was decommissioned and scrapped years ago.
Kinda makes one feel old....:(
NOLI PUGNARE ME OCCIDERE
Cobra...I use to keep up
March 28, 2009 - 20:39 ET by JerCobra...I use to keep up pretty well, but I've fallen a little bit behind on current weaponry. Is there a shoulder-fired version of the Patriot or any other gound-to-air missile besides the Stinger?
Jer
I'm not sure
March 28, 2009 - 20:55 ET by CobraManI'm not sure, but I assume there is some type of shoulder fired weapon. (Never mind that The Odd Couple joke about what happens when we "assume," ok? lol)
I trained on the Stinger back in the 80's and I was amused when the instructor told me to "make sure you hold your breath when you fire this as the exhaust is deadly and will kill you if you inhale it!" "Why am I firing this again?" I asked "So that ruskie doesn't incinerate you with those cluster bombs he's carrying, fool!" "Oh, ok, I see your point." Fire away!
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.
The US Constitution
Unless you're a fetus.
The US Supreme Court
So it was make sure no
March 28, 2009 - 21:06 ET by JerSo it was make sure no part of you is in front of or to the rear of the launcher, hold your breath, fire, and then run like hell?
Jer
~Jer
March 30, 2009 - 08:40 ET by choselife3xJust don't get confused about the sequence and you'll be fine. ;-)
That high-pitched scream you hear is the troll under my heel.
Any student of warfare knows that you can't bomb a populace into
March 28, 2009 - 20:15 ET by Tailgunner...submission.
And you know no American government would try it. Another straw man argument.
And overthrowing a tyrannical government by popular consensus is much different than cowardly planting bombs to kill soldiers and police.
In fact an armed citizenry is a guarantee that such a violent overthrow will never be necessary.
Even tyrants like Obama and the Democratic Congress still fear us.
And they'd better.
NOLI PUGNARE ME OCCIDERE
Words are not violance, Jer
March 28, 2009 - 20:20 ET by CobraManWords are not violence, Jer, and they don't constitute Sedition, although President Lincoln thought otherwise. Who is it that is constantly compared by the MSM with Lincoln? Oh, that's right, it's Obama.
I don't see how you can compare Bachmann with Ayers and Dohrn. Unless, of course, you agree with Olbermann and believe her mere words are an act of sedition against Obama and his administration, against America. Ayers and Dohrn, on the other hand, actually committed acts of violence against the government and, more importantly, the citizens of the United States of America. Tell me again how Bachmann compares to these two examples of actual seditious personalities?
On edit, that's Jer and not Jar, sorry about that.
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.
The US Constitution
Unless you're a fetus.
The US Supreme Court
For godsakes, Cobra...
March 28, 2009 - 20:26 ET by JerFor godsakes, Cobra...
who is comparing Bachmann with Ayers and Dohrn? Certainly not I.
Jer
I thought you just did
March 28, 2009 - 20:29 ET by CobraManI thought you jst did in your post. Perhaps i misunderstood you're meaning. If so, then I apologize. But you must forgive my confusion as this IS a thread about Bachmann's statements and Olbermann's instance that she should be charged with treason, a form of sedition.
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.
The US Constitution
Unless you're a fetus.
The US Supreme Court
I'm the one who used all three names in the same post.
March 29, 2009 - 19:09 ET by TailgunnerMy point was that the left is full of those who openly call for the violent overthrow of the government, its defeat on the battlefield, the murder of military officers and the slaughter of its troops, and undermine the morale of an entire population in times of the gravest danger.
But you'll never hear from Olbermann's lips, or from many here in this forum any condemnation for Al Gore, Dick Durbin, Ted Kennedy, Jack Murtha, John Kerry, Professor Nicholas DeGenova of the 'million Mogadishus', or innumerable other pieces of left wing garbage who recklessly slimed our country and our troops at war and knowingly gave aid and comfort to terrorists.
No part of Hell is hot enough for those who share equal responsibility for the killing of our troops.
NOLI PUGNARE ME OCCIDERE
Are you addressing this
March 29, 2009 - 19:18 ET by JerAre you addressing this reponse to me? If so, why?
Jer
Why not you?
March 29, 2009 - 21:35 ET by TailgunnerYou play Olbermann's game of condemning Republicans on the slightest pretext, no matter how dishonest, distorted or ripped and shredded out of all context.
At the same time you utterly ignore those examples I have cited and many other examples of left wing bombthrowers where there was absolutely no doubt their remarks were subversive, seditious or just plain treasonous.
It seemed to be a good time to bring it up.
NOLI PUGNARE ME OCCIDERE
Give me a break, TG...
March 29, 2009 - 21:46 ET by JerGive me a break, TG...
You mean like the time I blasted Ted Rall and his anti-military cartoon? Or when I called for the immediate firing of the despicable Mike Malloy for his calling U.S.A.F. pilots "war criminals"? Or when I posted over at dKos that A. Whitney Brown was a "jerk" for his diary demeaning the military?
Why don't you throw this stuff in someone else's face.
Jer
I'm not doubting you for a minute...
March 29, 2009 - 22:56 ET by Tailgunner...but I didn't read any of this on my watch.
But I'll keep my eyes open in the future for some more intellectual honesty.
NOLI PUGNARE ME OCCIDERE
Tailgunner...my Malloy smackdown was on your watch
March 30, 2009 - 00:03 ET by JerWell, I believe you were around for even my original remarks about Malloy, and I am sure you were just a few weeks ago when I relinked those comments for Sgt. Rock after he called me a "Fraud" for not having rebuked some other Malloy outrage--which I was not even aware of.
Jer
A Malloy 'smackdown'...
March 30, 2009 - 00:16 ET by Tailgunner...should really be a career rather than an event.
Same as that bottomfeeding bastard Ted Rall. Every time that sleaze puts pen to paper, whether drawing or drooling, the collective IQ of the left drops five points.
If you smacked these morons around as often as they deserved they'd be bouncing around like a basketball in the hands of the Harlem Globetrotters.
NOLI PUGNARE ME OCCIDERE
Right you are, TG...
March 30, 2009 - 00:28 ET by JerBut I'm just one guy, with one keyboard, and one slowass computer.
Jer
One thing more while it's
March 30, 2009 - 00:54 ET by JerOne thing more while it's on my mind: I am very pro-military and have profound respect for all the men and women who serve in every branch of our armed forces around the world. My father was a combat veteran of WWII, my uncle in the Air Force in WWII, my first cousin a combat veteran of Vietnam, I served six years in the Army Reserves and was the top graduate of artillery survey school at Fort Sill, OK.
I have been a hawk on the GWOT, have largely supported the Bush/Cheney national security measures including interrogation techniques. I did not support the Iraqi intervention for the very reason that I am a hawk on the GWOT, and I viewed Iraq as an unwise distraction and diversion of assets that might prove detrimental in the pursuit of our larger objectives. William F. Buckley, Jr. had come to the same conclusions before his death. That said, I never hoped for defeat, or God knows, anything that would reflect negatively on the troops who have performed and continue to perform so splendidly there. And I welcome the positive achievements, politically and militarily, in Iraq over the past couple of years. Bush deserves high marks indeed for his perseverance.
But frankly, it's becoming a little wearisome to be continually hammered--and often in a very personal manner--by a number of the military members of NB, just because I happen to have had reservations about Iraq and I happen to be a Democrat who voted for Obama.
Jer
There's nothing wrong with questioning the Iraq invasion...
March 30, 2009 - 13:51 ET by Tailgunner...if your overall goal truly is defeating terrorism.
In WWII there were surely many bitter debates over tactics and strategy, but no disagreement at all over the ultimate goal of unconditional surrender of Germany and Japan.
It was understood as a matter of military necessity that it was often unwise to walk up to a dictator's front door as opposed to first rolling up his forward elements, supply bases and safe havens.
Invading Iraq was an arguably legitimate strategic decision to eliminate a known terrorist supporter who was known at some point to have WMD's, and would have eagerly offered al-Qaeda safe haven, as he did Zarqawi, after our troops had driven them from Afghanistan.
The problem today is we know that too many liberals are using Iraq to question the legitimacy and the motives for the entire GWOT.
Any death, loss or tactical setback is used by liberals in and out of office to create the image of an evil, imperialist America, sap the troops' morale, undermine the resolution of the American public, and encourage the enemy to fight harder and kill more US troops and innocent civilians.
And you, Jer, for all your 'hawkishness' and support for the troops have been AWOL in the political struggle to defend them here at home.
The unbelievable and unceasing humiliation and personal attacks on our country, our President, our cause and our troops by our own elected officials, never mind the paid liars and leftwing hacks in the MSM, has not brought forth from you nearly the amount of condemnation it should have.
Oh, I'm sure you can point to some bad words you wrote about some extreme left wing nut job, but you can't say that Hitler was a bad man then fail to constantly and comprehensively condemn Nazism and retain credibility.
NOLI PUGNARE ME OCCIDERE
And you, Jer, for all your
March 30, 2009 - 20:11 ET by JerAnd you, Jer, for all your 'hawkishness' and support for the troops have been AWOL in the political struggle to defend them here at home.
The unbelievable and unceasing humiliation and personal attacks on our country, our President, our cause and our troops by our own elected officials, never mind the paid liars and leftwing hacks in the MSM, has not brought forth from you nearly the amount of condemnation it should have.
That's utter bullshit, TG...besides being insulting, slanderous, and patently untrue. Enough! I'm through with you. Please don't bother me again.
Jer
Not quite through. I note you have been here 25 weeks while I have been here nearly two years. Inasmuch as I took a break for most of last summer and fall, that means you have only been exposed to my comments for about half of those 25 weeks, unless you bothered to track my posts for the previous year and a half. I doubt that you did so, for if you had, I don't think even you would be casting the aspersions you have regarding my support for the military. Don't you think it fair that you do so before insulting and defaming me with falsehoods?
Hit a nerve, Jer?
March 30, 2009 - 20:53 ET by TailgunnerMethinks the gentleman doth protest too much.
Don't get offended because I drew a conclusion based on my observations. (OTOH, go right ahead and get offended. It's not going to keep me awake at night.)
How long should I wait before I'm allowed to express my disgust with the apathy you and other liberals display towards seditious bombthrowers who get our own troops killed?
If you want to take your keyboard and go home, you do that. This is a war and I'll fire as often as I need to.
Someone said you were a lawyer. I spent a few years working in the military justice system and all I ever saw was lawyers standing up in courts martial and calling each other liars.
After the shouting was done they'd go out and have a beer. They didn't slap each other and meet at dawn with drawn pistols.
Suck it up, Jer.
NOLI PUGNARE ME OCCIDERE
Struck a nerve? You might
March 30, 2009 - 21:06 ET by JerStruck a nerve? You might say that. But I didn't go completely ballistic like you did a couple of months ago when I merely suggested you were being spoonfed by Limbaugh. As I recall, you accused me of "deliberately lying" for my inadvertent omission of a detail in the Sandy Berger/documents case. I at least had the decency to apologize instead of saying "Suck it up, Tailgunner".
Me, I'm actually the "debate, and then let's have a beer" type. Not so sure about you.
Jer
§ Jer...I'm Ster. I got a Beer. Let's DEBATE!!
March 30, 2009 - 21:21 ET by TheSterWARNING!
I'm reading ALL of your Liberal Talking Point web sites Right now.
BRING IT!
Feel free to SLING IT...
I'll copy and paste the link and Info you just said from the site you just got it from.
TRY ME.
Ster.
My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives.
It's not your fight, Ster...
March 30, 2009 - 23:18 ET by JerIt's not your fight, Ster, and has nothing to do with any lib websites. My talking points come straight from my brain.
As I understand it, no matter how often I express support for the military, condemn those who demean our troops, express admiration for Bush, blast the trash talkers and bomb throwers of the Left, if I fail for any reason on any occasion to exhibit sufficient outrage--even regarding instances I'm not even aware of--then I am accused of being an enabler and fellow traveler.
So, if you really like to copy and paste, track my comments since I joined NB, and link or post the numerous times I have vigorously condemned those on the Left who have spoken against or behaved negatively toward our military and where I have expressed support and admiration for our troops.
Jer
Waaaaaah.
March 30, 2009 - 21:46 ET by TailgunnerNOLI PUGNARE ME OCCIDERE
Suck it up, TG...don't be a
March 30, 2009 - 23:02 ET by JerSuck it up, TG...don't be a wimp.
Jer
Let's discuss how a government could lawfully be overthrown...
March 30, 2009 - 00:43 ET by TailgunnerMy opinion would be that our government would have crossed the line if they enacted some form of national state of emergency, without a legitimate and genuine clear and present danger, usurping the authority of the states, suspending habeas corpus and enforcing martial law, especially including mass gun confiscations. Resistance to these edicts would be dealt with summarily.
A pretty drastic and extreme scenario that none would dispute as the act of a tyrannical government.
This is assuming that our own armed forces would carry out such an evil plan against their own neighbors, families and fellow citizens on a large scale.
But then again...there's Obama's 'civilian national security force' (AmeriCops) to worry about...
Also one that the tyrants would know would provoke an armed response by patriots secure in the righteousness of their cause.
This is why it'll probably never happen.
So all you terrified lefties can quit hyperventilating now.
You're more afraid of us than you are of al-Qaeda.
Geez.
NOLI PUGNARE ME OCCIDERE
I think you all are being a little unfair to Jer
March 28, 2009 - 21:23 ET by timotheHe has a right to dissent...as much as anyone.
Didn't Obama encourage the Prop 8 protestors to "carry on the fight"? I did not listen to Rep. Bachmann's comments, but how much worse was it than what Obama said...in a news conference, no less?
Whatever Rep. Bachmann said on Hannity couldn't have been nearly as good as the questions she asked Geithner and Bernanke this week during the Congressional hearing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SXpGV1HLZk
Geithner's face at 1:08 is priceless!!! It's as if he thinks she's speaking to him in Chinese.
I love this woman!!! That's how you represent the people!!!
Contrast that to Barney Frank at the end of dialogue....making absolutely certain that Rep. Bachmann's last question does not get answered.
"Contempt prior to investigation is ignorance."
timothe... I've been
March 28, 2009 - 21:28 ET by bigtimertimothe...
I've been talking about the hearing you have a link to since it happened here and there on different threads, since I did watch it live ...thank YOU!
I have also commented on little Barney shutting her down.
The truth hurts...big time!
They love silence when it suits the leftist loud mouths.
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
Don't worry about Jer
March 28, 2009 - 22:34 ET by KC MulvilleHe can bloody well take care of himself.
I mean that as a compliment.
Thanks, KC...
March 28, 2009 - 22:46 ET by JerThanks for the vote of confidence, KC...but I could use another hand to help keep this third tourniquet tightened.
Jer
From the Dirty Dozen:
March 28, 2009 - 23:23 ET by KC MulvilleAs George Kennedy's character said, "Oh I'm just an observer. I'm not a referee. I'm not allowed to make any decisions."
~Jer
March 29, 2009 - 13:15 ET by choselife3xthird tourniquet
That's what teeth are for. Improvise man, improvise!
That high-pitched scream you hear is the troll under my heel.
KC, I think we should hold ourselves to a higher standard
March 28, 2009 - 23:19 ET by timotheIf I wanted to read a whole bunch of posts where the character of the person is attacked just because they disagree, I'd hang out at the Huffington Post.
As conservative, we should be better than that. We should respond to critics with facts, principles, and concepts which are well thought out. I'd like to think that's what separates us from liberals.
"Contempt prior to investigation is ignorance."
timothe... I know you
March 28, 2009 - 23:43 ET by bigtimertimothe...
I know you weren't talking to me but maybe I am misunderstanding you here, as far as anybody doing what you just suggested in your above post on this site...nobody, but nobody has fit that bill better than KC.
If I misunderstood...I apologize for not understanding how you meant that and leave it at that.
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
I'm sorry that I used this specific thread to expound on....
March 29, 2009 - 11:41 ET by timothe....a broader subject. But we have a tendency to shout down the opposition here, often with more personal attacks. That's all I was trying to say.
And I most certainly was not targeting KC. He is my most favorite contributor! (she?) Or you....another favorite!
"Contempt prior to investigation is ignorance."
timothe
March 29, 2009 - 11:49 ET by botgi believe former and present jesuits are all males while BT is a female.
And yes there is a time and place for persuasion in putting forth one's beliefs. Sometimes the best way to achieve such is through ridecule, sometimes through logical argument, sometimes through presenting facts. I remain eclectic in my approach. Yes KC does present well thought out postings, i believe he is much more patient than I.
"Outside of a dog a book is man's best friend,------------inside a dog it's too dark to read" ---Groucho
The Online Saloon
March 29, 2009 - 12:35 ET by KC MulvilleThanks for the praise, everyone ! I'd say something to make me sound humble, but instead I'd rather just accept and enjoy it ! Ha!
Like everyone else, I go back and forth about postings. When is it better to fight, and when is it better to let it go? My only comfort comes from knowing that everyone else is in the same boat.
The only thing that really pisses me off is when someone comes onto a site for the sole purpose of insulting everyone. The anonymity of a website shouldn't be a shield for people to push others down just to make yourself seem higher. If you're fighting for something you believe in and your passion gets the best of you, well, that's understandable. But if you're just insulting people with no principle involved, I can't stand that. Critics should be welcomed (and embraced) but trolls can ... Ah, I can't say - I just got out of church ...
No offense taken
March 29, 2009 - 12:49 ET by KC MulvilleI understood what you were saying, timothe, and I agree with you! Thanks for the compliment.
True
March 29, 2009 - 00:20 ET by KC MulvilleYou're right. We should.
But don't kid yourself. Jer's a lawyer, and from my few encounters with him, I'll bet he's a good one. Elbowing him with rhetoric ain't going to bother him much. I agree that it may be unkind, but I seriously doubt it's effective.
As for any specific thread where people are attacking each other, I'm not anyone's judge. Everyone gets passionate about something (I hope), and it's a free opinion marketplace. I don't like it when it gets personal, and I usually skip those threads when I see them. Besides, who the hell made me the Robin Hood of opinion?
Let me say it this way. Sure, we need to refrain from personal attacks. But if you want to have a truly free marketplace of opinion, we can't guarantee that everyone will be a gentleman. Hell, there are Irishmen out there! So, while we cultivate civility in others, we ought to cultivate a thick skin ourselves. (Of course, don't hold me to that. I'm not perfect yet. I'm still working on it.)
And "Animal House" at least had some loose story line...
March 28, 2009 - 19:41 ET by CKA in Red State USA. . .unlike the nightly running of the diarrhetic mouth that gets its output directly from Olbermann's hard, morally corrupt, fearful heart and intellectually bankrupt, narrow mind.
Rep. Bachmann tells the
March 28, 2009 - 15:54 ET by robert108Rep. Bachmann tells the truth: Obama is practicing Marxist economics. We have a duty as free Americans to oppose such policies.
Michele Bachmann must have
March 28, 2009 - 15:57 ET by R D HelmMichele Bachmann must have struck a very raw nerve among the lefties, as she has them all spinning on their eyebrows.
That'a a good thing.
-Dave
This coup has gone on long enough. The time to put it down is NOW.
I see a pattern...
March 28, 2009 - 17:03 ET by TexndocWeek #1 target - Rush. Result: ratings through the roof.
Week # 2 target - Glenn Beck. Result: ratings through the roof.
Week # 3 target: Michelle Bachmann. Result: she's probably becoming well known as a conservative hero beyond her usual borders.
Next week - as I pointed out in the Obama town-hall thread, I just read Mark Levin's book in burning sales records and had a line today in Virginia for signing that went out of the store, out of the mall, and blocks and blocks down the street. Oh, it will be anti-Levin all week on MSNBC.
Respectfully, the woman's got more testicularity than...
March 28, 2009 - 19:38 ET by CKA in Red State USA...the sum of all the liberals and leftists, including Olbermann, Matthews, Maddow, etc.
Hoo-rah for her!
High Minds
March 28, 2009 - 16:08 ET by Lakewood BobTypical reaction from MSNBC (More of the Same - Nothing But Crap). They will always talk about what they know best; Spying, Glue Sniffing, and Lawbreaking. Newsweak is no exception! I know this is a lot to ask of you morons, but try to comment on the issues instead of personal attacks. What BO is pushing for is unconstitutional and defending the constitution is the oath he took. Is this too deep for you Chrissy and you leftist sycophants?
*throws huge rock through
March 28, 2009 - 16:45 ET by wiwf*throws huge rock through LOLbermann's house of glass*
The Rocky Mountain Collegian: Illustrating Idiocy
Double standard or what
March 28, 2009 - 16:55 ET by sam12663When the loons from MSNBC accuse Bush or Cheney of war crimes, isn't that 'breaking some serious laws', you know, undermining the office of the President; not to mention the fact it may be libelous? These guys are so foul it is almost a shame to even have to respond to them.
President Obama is nothing more than a empty suit; a Hollywood
style special effects smoke and mirrors show that has shown itself to
be a total fraud.
WAKE UP AMERICA! SAVE OUR CONSTITUTION!
Hey, you should know better: Logic is to the liberals ...
March 28, 2009 - 19:35 ET by CKA in Red State USA. . . leftists and Demockacrats/Dementocrats as hot oil is to ice water: They do not mix and they don't do so explosively.
You'd have a better chance training a gerbil than reaching these moral and intellectual hypocrites.
Just more Liberal hypocrisy…
March 28, 2009 - 16:57 ET by Franklins_LockeIt is ok for the Left to create mobs to picket the private citizens of AIG, but it is not ok for a Congresswoman to ask the citizens to use our First Amendment rights to question our government.
http://franklinslocke.blogspot.com/
???
March 28, 2009 - 17:02 ET by jazzact13--"The identity of the speaker is unmistakable, but this is not your standard red meat from Michele Bachmann, she may have broken several serious laws,"--
Or she will have once the current administration makes speech rules that are retroactive, like the taxes for bonuses.
--If this were a Democrat, we had been saying this, there would immediately have been a lot of calls for the Democratic Party to rein in you know, this whack job on their side of the aisle.--
Yes, we all know how the DMC really tries to rein in such whack jobs as Ted Kennedy, Barney Frank, Pelosi, Dodd, and likely other I could name.
"Thoroughly worldly people never understand even the world; they rely altogether on a few cynical maxims which are not true."
Chesterton, Orthodoxy
So true
March 28, 2009 - 17:27 ET by ArminiusWith the Democrat Party, it's the inmates running the asylum. They, and their allies in the media, such as Alter, are lostly whack jobs. How else can you explain Alter appearing on television all those years with that toupee? A sane person would have known how ridiculous that rug looked.
Serious Laws!!
March 28, 2009 - 17:03 ET by botgas opposed to glib laws?
"Outside of a dog a book is man's best friend,------------inside a dog it's too dark to read" ---Groucho
I feel so insignificant....
March 28, 2009 - 17:09 ET by jdripperI have called the Messiah an idiot, incompetent, stupid, naive, and everything else and no one on MSNBC says boo about me. Damn what does it take to be called out by the Larry, Moe, and Curly triumvaraite of David, Chris, and Keith?
I will say one thing do these bozos understand that Bill O'Reilly's show alone draws more audience then these 3 combined? Humm and I thought I was insignificant.
Jack
"If at age 20 you are a conservative then you have no heart. If at age 30 you are a liberal then you have no brains." Sir Winston Churchill
So when does Olbermann bring
March 28, 2009 - 17:52 ET by GregESo when does Olbermann bring someone on his show to debate them one on one on a controversial topic? I'm waiting.
neigh
March 28, 2009 - 18:40 ET by SamWhen is someone going to punch the ugly horse face olberman? I pray this hate fill moron's time on TV is numbered. He talks like a fringe lunatic yet still gets time on Football night in America. Wake up NBC and fire the a-hole.
Michele is simply the
March 28, 2009 - 18:48 ET by bigtimerMichele is simply the best...along with Marsha Blackburn.
Real conservative women...and you don't have to guess where they are coming from one iota.
I have posted about both of these bright, beautiful, conservative, patriotic gals for a long time now.
I could give a rats rear less what Olbie or for that matter anybody on msnbc thinks one way or the other about her...this network means zilch to me...I know Soros controls it...I still could care less.
Well...most days that is...lol.
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
It's BACHMANN, Libs!
March 28, 2009 - 19:15 ET by northoneShe has them scared. She has them very, very scared!!
northone... That she
March 28, 2009 - 19:37 ET by bigtimernorthone...
That she does...especially since she beat them at their own game before and during the last election of hers.
Matthews and the rest of the gang at msnbc tried their very best to destroy her...and they still are!
Can you imagine the woman had the audacity to ask Geithner questions like "Where in the Constitution does it say this...or show me where in the Constitution this is stated...etc.) during the latest hearings this past week.
It was priceless....and Barney the Banking Queen didn't like it one widdle bit.
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
She sure does!
March 28, 2009 - 20:07 ET by CobraManShe sure does have them scared!
"For what pisses off the Democrats, it really energizes that conservative base she has," said Lawrence Jacobs, a political professor at the University of Minnesota [a liberal professor, btw]. "This is not a strategic politician. This is a movement conservative. She's a true believer."
Source
That's what has them so scared, she's a believer and not a poll follower like so many of the Liberals, like Obama himself.
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.
The US Constitution
Unless you're a fetus.
The US Supreme Court
Anyone with standards
March 29, 2009 - 13:00 ET by reasonsjester...is a "true believer" to the brainwashing left (All resistance must be crushed!). And the economic Marxists aren't "true believers" after their theories have been shot to hell in every way imaginable? Bra-ha-ha!
Responsibility is the price of freedom. - Elbert Hubbard
Truly, why don't you all at NB just come up with some . . .
March 28, 2009 - 19:32 ET by CKA in Red State USA. . . copy/story template for Olbermann and just fill in the blanks when his next HUTA statement surfaces?
Or create a series of stories, number them and publish them? Afterward, when he repeats something akin to one of the stories, you can just put up some headline about the man and for the story, just say, for example, "No. 3!"
That'd save a lot of keystrokes and energy, personal and electrical.
Better yet, why even pay attention to this morally, intellectually, spiritually and professionally bankrupt wannabe?
Commenting on his decadence and ignorance is like shooting fish in a barrel.
Simply the Best...
March 28, 2009 - 20:18 ET by dasherMichele Bachmann is the best representative one could hope for. I had to move in order to get into her district, and I did just that.
The 2nd amendment is in place for the purpose of over throwing the government if necessary. It is not about hunting or sport.
"Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." P.J.O'Rourke
Indeed,that is the exact purpose of the 2nd Amendment. That's...
March 28, 2009 - 20:44 ET by CKA in Red State USA...why the liberals and leftists, as well as Demockacrats/Dementocrats want to disarm the population.
Where I live, in a red state, I hear people everywhere talking about buying up ammunition -- especially .223, .308 and shotgun shells -- as much and as fast as they can.
I don't recall MSNBC's
March 28, 2009 - 21:37 ET by TN MomI don't recall MSNBC's Olberman having a problem when Barack Obama said "get in their faces" during the campaign.
I don't recall MSNBC's
March 28, 2009 - 21:38 ET by TN MomI don't recall MSNBC's Olberman having a problem when Barack Obama said "get in their faces" during the campaign.
Libs can't stand the FACT
March 28, 2009 - 22:54 ET by Delsathat Bachmann has a sure grasp of the Constitution and wants to make sure the United States hold fast to it!
We have a marxist president and that Fact cannot be over looked!
Bachmann will not remain mute because the left says so.
God bless her and others like her willing to speak up.
Must Solidly Never Believe Conservatives
March 29, 2009 - 07:21 ET by GeneralAlIf I didn't read it with my own eyes, I wouldn't believe it!
Alter said. "If this were a Democrat, we had been saying this, there would immediately have been a lot of calls for the Democratic Party to rein in you know, this whack job on their side of the aisle. We are not seeing those calls right now. We are not seeing Republican leaders in the House of Representatives being called upon to force her to retract those comments."
Excuse me! When has there ever been a call for the Commiecrats to "rein in this whack job?"
Jonathan Alter needs to quit drinking Kool-Aid and eat some fish! he needs a great deal of brain food to improve his memory!
I guess Blowberman must think...
March 29, 2009 - 07:44 ET by BobAnthonyMichele Bachman is a terrorists according to a recently debunked report released by The Missouri Information Action Center? The report stated those who believe in the Constitution or suport candidates like Ron Paul or Chuck Baldwin were considered terrorists.
Missouri's governor, Jay Nixon, A DEMOCRAT, supported this bill. And when it was debunked he like any good St. Louis/KC Lib passed the blame!
BLOWEBERMAN IS CLEARLY PART OF THE NWO IF HE DENOUNCES THE CONSTITUTION!
Want the PLAIN truth and no spin? Listen to The Plains Radio Network online. It's like nothing you've ever heard.
Funny but the Supreme Court
March 29, 2009 - 10:51 ET by eaglewingz08Funny but the Supreme Court Ninety Years Ago, stated that the person must cause a clear and present danger for there to be any liability. When that is combined with Congressional Immunity, you know the kind that allows Sen. Kerry and Speaker Pelousi and Sen. Rockefeller and Sen Leahy to undermine the national security of the USA and to leak national security secrets to the press without any calls for them to be imprisoned and tried for such heinous conduct and certainly no such calls coming from the democrap party itself, this rant goes into the Howard Dean rant hypocrisy file. The democraps lived by Code Pinko and Soros for the past six years, they are the last people on earth to be criticizing the metaphorical language used by a Republican to overturn communist policies of the current administration. Not all the policies are bad, but those that are may be sought to be overturned under the First Amendment (remember that Amendment Olberjerk?) which gives both freedom of speech and the right to protest and to petition one's grievances to the Congress and its representatives.
This just in from my seance
March 29, 2009 - 12:58 ET by reasonsjesterThomas Jefferson says: "You go girl!"