How could anyone take a principled stand against the $789 billion economic stimulus bill? Any opposition to this massive expansion of the federal government must be sheer political posturing. Or so said Newsweek magazine's Jonathan Alter.
Alter said on MSNBC's Feb. 11 "Countdown with Keith Olbermann" that congressional Republicans oppose the stimulus bill based on an ill-conceived, low-percentage bet that the proposal would fail.
"Well, they're betting on the 30 percent chance, as Joe Biden put it, that it's not going to work," Alter said. "Then they can say, ‘I told you so, it didn't do any good.'"
Alter said the ultimate reason they oppose the stimulus is the fear that if they didn't, they would lose a primary election, and not that the legislation is a larded-up government spending pork bill.
"But really I think their main point here is they're trying to avoid a primary challenge," Alter said. "The first duty of every member of Congress, in his or her mind, is to get reelected, right? And what these Republican members fear more than anything else is somebody to their right, who says, ‘See, Joe Schmo is just a big-government liberal, even though he claims he's a Republican,' and then they mount a primary challenge."
So according to Alter, the fear of a primary challenge from a right-wing "extremist" is why Republicans - 226 out of 229 in both the House and the Senate - opposed the stimulus.
"And in primaries, sometimes you get like 9-10 percent turnout," Alter continued. "So, a few wing nuts, a few extremists can actually determine the primary. These members know that and the risk of facing an expensive primary challenge is bigger than the risk of that they might get knocked out of what's usually a safely Republican district by a Democrat in a fall election."
However, there are reasonable voices without political interests at heart, not facing a primary challenge that is, that oppose the entire concept of this stimulus package. The Cato Institute took out a full-page ad in major newspapers across the United States that included hundreds of economists - Nobel laureates and other prominent scholars - that opposed this stimulus for philosophical and practical reasons.
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Alter, please give me some proof thay you know
February 12, 2009 - 10:16 ET by JTPanything regarding priciples.
"I need more cowbell!" SNL
What an ass. “There
February 12, 2009 - 10:18 ET by NewsbusterbrownWhat an ass.
“There are no easy answers' but there are simple answers. We must have the courage to do what we know is morally right.” - Ronald Reagan (1964 Republican Convention)
Allow me to say that again
February 12, 2009 - 10:36 ET by KC MulvilleWhat an ass!
sounds like alter knows a
February 12, 2009 - 14:43 ET by TruthMongersounds like alter knows a thing or two about alterior motives - are these damn republicans stealing all his moves?!?
It's funny, no matter how
February 12, 2009 - 10:23 ET by SmartypantsIt's funny, no matter how political Demcrats act, it is Republicans who are invariably charged with having only political motives. When Democrats ran down the economy for the entire Bush presidency, they were not being political. When they openly stated the Iraq War could not be won and, in fact, was actually already lost they were not being political. When they blamed President Bush for most of what happened in New Orleans after Katrina, they were not being political. Yet, Republicans, for the first time in quite a while, actually act according to their principles in opposing a Big Government spending spree that could ruin the economy forever, they are being political.
No, there's no bias in the press.
Filibuster?
February 12, 2009 - 10:47 ET by Sergeant ROCKDidn't this thing get a fliibuster-proof majority?
It's so obvious that they are playing politics by inviting Republicans to their destruction in 2010.
If they are so certain that porkulus is the answer, why don't they have the balls to pass it without GOP support?
Cowards..
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Bolton/KEYES 2012
It seems that everything is
February 12, 2009 - 11:42 ET by SmartypantsIt seems that everything is being crafted in such a way that Obama is protected from ultimate blame if it does not work out. If the stimulus fails, they'll claim it was because Republicans obstructed it and forced unnecessary changes. Plus, he can always fall back on the old "It was Bush's fault" excuse. If the stimulus works, Obama is king forever.
Personally, I think Barack Obama cares more about his image and public perception than any specific policy or result. This is why he is talking down the economy so much lately. He is setting up an "I told you so" scenario, whereby he is right regardless what happens.
"The race is not always to the swift nor the battle to the strong, but that's the way to bet."
Gutless democRATS
February 12, 2009 - 11:50 ET by Sergeant ROCKI heard a guy talking this morning saying that it was unprecedented that a President would not submit his own bill. In this case, I guess he and his staff are too stupid to craft their own bill? Or is it just political payback?
I think that the democRATs are making a big mistake if they think they're going to fool everyone by blaming Republicans for thie debacle.
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Bolton/KEYES 2012
You're right, of course,
February 12, 2009 - 10:49 ET by motherbeltYou're right, of course, but it's futile to hope for anything else from Olbermann, or from anyone he has on his show.
There is only one purpose for the whole show: to badmouth, run down and denigrate Republicans and/or conservatives, no matter what they do (used to be Bush, but he's gone now) and to promote liberals and propagate their agenda.
I didn't think it was physically possible, but this both sucks and blows. -Bart Simpson
The thing is, Olbermann and
February 12, 2009 - 11:44 ET by SmartypantsThe thing is, Olbermann and MSNBC are playing to a certain audience far more than FOX News does, yet it is FOX that has been stigmatized as being a biased network. This is evidence of how much power the msm still retains.
"The race is not always to the swift nor the battle to the strong, but that's the way to bet."
GOP is with the American people
February 12, 2009 - 10:27 ET by ArminiusRasmussen found that just 37% of Americans agree with this so-called stimulus bill. Are the 63% who do not agree with it also basing their opposition on political reasons.
The latest issue of Imprimis includes a great speech by Burton W. Folsom, Jr. If you can't read the entire piece, at least consider this passage:
Henry Morgenthau, FDR's loyal Secretary of the Treasury, was frustrated at the persistence of double-digit unemployment throughout the 1930s. In May 1939, with unemployment at 20 percent, he exploded at the failed New Deal programs. "We have tried spending money," Morgenthau noted. "We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. . . . We have never made good on our promises. . . . I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started. . . . And an enormous debt to boot!"
http://www.hillsdale.edu/news/imprimis.asp
Are the 63% who do not
February 12, 2009 - 10:35 ET by Dan The Man 2Are the 63% who do not agree with it also basing their opposition on political reasons
No they just need to be re-educated and quickly, remember on the train and in the vacation compound there will be food and showers provided.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
Dow ♥ Obama
February 12, 2009 - 10:29 ET by Cool ArrowOnce again, this week, Wall Street shows its unbending love for President Obama with a 200 point drop.
BTW
February 12, 2009 - 10:29 ET by ArminiusWhat happened to Alter's hair. Just a few years ago he had a full head of thick hair. Where did it go?
Alter's hair
February 12, 2009 - 10:36 ET by cvgbuckeyeIt got worn off on the palms of Olbermann's and Obama's hands.
LMAO!! I'm glad I wasn't
February 12, 2009 - 10:50 ET by motherbeltLMAO!!
I'm glad I wasn't sipping my coffee!
I didn't think it was physically possible, but this both sucks and blows. -Bart Simpson
Used to
February 12, 2009 - 11:21 ET by cvgbuckeyemotherbelt: he used to wear a wig;;;; A REALLY BAD LOOKING wig. The only way that bad boy could have looked any worse was if it came with a chin strap!
Alter's hair
February 12, 2009 - 10:56 ET by thebutlerdiditwent by the wayside. Sort of like Olbermann's waist line.
All a Democrat needs is the upper-story window of public attention and the chamber pot of rhetoric. How else to explain the rise of Joe Biden? P.J. O' Rourke
~TBDI
February 12, 2009 - 11:03 ET by choselife3xTHERE you are! I keep catching your posts 5 hours after you've made them. You're like the offspring of Wonder Woman and The Flash!
Re: Alter
Democrats are generally so ugly I can see why KKK members started wearing hoods!
In order to be pro-choice, one must first be born. Ah, the irony.
He's going with the George
February 12, 2009 - 11:46 ET by SickofLibsHe's going with the George Costanza look. Next up, flannel shirt with insulated vest.
Show some class will you
February 13, 2009 - 11:33 ET by PTWAlter is a cancer survivor. The treatments caused his hair to fall out.
Feel better about yourselves now?
Good try PTW
February 13, 2009 - 11:39 ET by Cool ArrowShow us your source that indicates chemo-related hair loss produces classic male-pattern baldness.
I think there are enough of us who have naturally lost hair over the years, we can joke about it - Friar Tuck
Ouch! Thank you, PTW. The
February 13, 2009 - 11:51 ET by QueenMumOuch! Thank you, PTW. The posting of childish insults only serves to diminish us all.
Edited to add: P.S. To C.A.
To be fair, the fact that Alter may "suffer" from male patten baldness doesn't diminish the fact that cancer treatment causes hair loss. And someone with male pattern baldness is not immune from complete hair loss due to cancer treatment. Besides, self-deprecation is not the same as insult. From Newsweek.
Try this
February 13, 2009 - 12:56 ET by cvgbuckeyePTW try this. His brains fell out with his hair; although his brain only dropped as far as his a$$. It is now located about where yours is; liar.
Great Job Guys!
February 12, 2009 - 10:35 ET by LCT688I must offer my congrats to team Obama. The markets are so impressed with their quick work consolidating the House and Senate spendulous bills that they dropped 200 point in the first 30 min. of trading. Concurrently oil is down another $7.00 a barrel in the last 3-1/2 days. Great work you guys! Spend another few trillion and we will be out of this in no time!
www.theeveningchronicle.blogspot.com
"A nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master and deserves
Wow! Big surprise.
February 12, 2009 - 10:36 ET by The Smokin FrogWow! Big surprise. Jonathan Alter and Keith Olbermann don't think highly of the Republican opposition. Surprise! Surprise!
Their argument is really silly considering the electorate today. If you're not giving the 'gimmies' enough stuff you won't be reelected. Apparently principles are lost on Americans today.
I do see how Obama has mentioned his goal to 'get reelected'. He is such a breath of fresh air. Don't you think? I want a house. And a boat.
TSF Protests!
I wonder if the MSM or the
February 12, 2009 - 10:43 ET by jistincaseI wonder if the MSM or the congress will notice the fact that sales for Jan are up. The first time in 14 months and all without this precious porkulous plan. These headlines need to be waved all around the house and senate and plastered on all media outlets. Maybe somebody could send a copy to the three benedict arnolds so that they might reconsider their vote.
The fact that Alter is
February 12, 2009 - 10:41 ET by R D HelmThe fact that Alter is still referring to this as a "stimulus" bill says it all. He must be as illiterate as the congress critters who are voting for it.
-Dave
Our clueless political leaders are about to drive us all over a cliff. The time to HITM is now-before we go over.
Starting with the first premise
February 12, 2009 - 10:46 ET by KC MulvilleThe inability to grasp the possibility that someone might disagree with you on rational grounds always leads liberals to assume that all disagreement with them is irrational. So they speculate about why someone would disagree with them, and almost always "discover" that opposition is based on immorality or stupidity.
Alter and Olbermann are simply displaying their adolescent grasp of politics ... the idea that rational opposition is impossible, because they've thought about the issues and have discovered the truth.
I've discovered the same
February 12, 2009 - 11:49 ET by SmartypantsI've discovered the same thing in debating liberals. So many of them have a haughty "I've already reasearched this and I'm right" mentality that nothing gets through to them. You can present a liberal with emperical evidence that, beyond any reasonable doubt, proves them wrong, and it will fall on deaf ears. Nothing registers that does not fit their world view. What is amazing is that so much of reality and history have proven these views to be very wrong, and yet they are still in denial. Try to prove to a liberal that Bush's tax cuts did not caust this economic mess. It would be easier pushing ten feet of wet dental floss up a rocky hill.
"The race is not always to the swift nor the battle to the strong, but that's the way to bet."
Forgive the repetition
February 12, 2009 - 16:06 ET by KC MulvilleI've said this before a few times, so forgive the repetition. Some people (like me) come to political positions first, and align with the party that best represents those positions second. Others align with the party first, and shape their ideology to fit whatever positions the party represents.
For the second group, rational debate is difficult, because to surrender the argument is to insult one's chosen party.
I know quite a few liberals who think first and join second. With those people, I can have enlightening, challenging, and fun conversations. I look forward to talking with those liberals. But for liberals who join first and think second, I can't take them seriously for very long. They just wind up shouting, or taking cheap shots as if they were clever.
→ KC
February 12, 2009 - 16:15 ET by Cool ArrowIt was somewhat hard to sell conservative ideals during the Bush Administration because there was such a huge gap between the fiscal and the moral & security.
Bush was a spender out of the blocks, I thought primarily because he bought the votes necessary to form his Iraq invasion coalition at home.
He should have learned his lesson early after pulling back a bloody stump from Ted Kennedy's mouth.
Agreed
February 14, 2009 - 14:21 ET by KC MulvilleBush was a "when did you stop beating your wife" question. Here's what I mean:
Unfortunately, political party support is a yes or no answer, even though every politician is a mixture of policy propositions. When I voted for Bush, 70% of it was because he wanted to nominate originalist judges, and 20% of it was for tax cuts. I didn't vote for Harriet Miers, or Alberto Gonzales, or for immigration, or for No Child Left Behind, or for the prescription drug Medicare thing ... or, come to think of it, most of the rest of it. Just because I voted for Bush doesn't mean I approved of his immigration stance.
One thing to remember -- anyone who asks you a WDYSBYW question is trying to trap you. The act of asking the question is proof of the fraud. (It's like Tessio in The Godfather: as soon as he asked Michael to meet Barzini, Tessio proved himself the traitor.)
The contemporary equivalent is when liberals, like the Newsweek editors the other day, claim that conservatives can't object to the bank bailout because they voted for Bush, who initiated the bailout. That's a version of WDYSBYW. Yes, Bush did, but conservatives aren't defined by Bush.
Alter....
February 12, 2009 - 11:17 ET by JPR1doesn't know jack.
He's just bluffing, ginning up interest for his new business model.
Frankly, I couldn't give
February 12, 2009 - 11:38 ET by fitzfongFrankly, I couldn't give a crap whether Republicans oppose this garbage on principle or out of fear...as long as they oppose it. The point that this blowhard George Costanza look-alike glosses over is that these Republican Senators have an obligation to the constituents that voted for them. To the extent that they fail in meeting that obligation, it is proper that they face primary opposition and possible removal. As an aside, I do find it rather hilarious that Newsweek, a publication that claims to have objective credibility would tolerate a member of its editorial staff employing cheap name calling as a rhetorical tactic. Wing nut? Way to be an objective professional, jackass! And before anyone tries to point out my "hypocrisy" in reverting to cheap name calling when referring to Jonathan Alter...I never claimed to be an objective professional. :-)
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." -Winston Churchill
The left does not
February 12, 2009 - 12:16 ET by SmartypantsThe left does not believe in the tenents of democracy when they are in charge. Dissent is thrown out the window; appropriate representation is thrown out the window; decorum is thrown out the window.
"The race is not always to the swift nor the battle to the strong, but that's the way to bet."
Alter is
February 12, 2009 - 18:50 ET by TIRMa prime example of why Newsweek is losing readers.
Taxes=Geese
February 12, 2009 - 20:24 ET by DeclinesToStateThere are so many things wrong in this clip... quoting Joe Biden for anything but comedy is comedy. Alter's argument can also be extended to Democrats, i.e. they are only voting for the "stimulus" package, not on principled grounds, but to play to their base for re-election. Keith's intellectual musing on "proving a fantasy"...
Somehow after Obama's election the same people who opposed the last president seem to think (or not think at all) that no one can honestly disagree with the new president. Putting it into an analogy they might understand, I think all the new taxes (disguised as a stimulus bill) are geese going into the engine of the economy... and our pilot trying to flock us.