As noted earlier today on Newsbusters by Matthew Balan, Michael Moore appeared on CNN's "Larry King Live" last evening. I caught a good portion of the "interview" (if King's constant agreement and sucking up qualify as an interview) and one little segment in particular got my attention. The subject was taxes:
MOORE: You were asking me a serious question. I'm sorry. Actually, you know what I would do is I would get -- I would try to lower Americans' taxes to the rate that the French pay. The French pay less taxes than we do, less.
KING: Socialist country?
Story Continues Below Ad ↓MOORE: That's right, most of Europe pays less than we do. That's not the way we're told in this country. We're told, oh, they pay all these horrible taxes; 40 percent of their income goes to income taxes. Actually, the French federal income tax is around 10 percent. That 10 percent covers everything, the road, the cops, the military.
What they do is they have these other taxes. Here's your tax for your health care. Here's your tax for education. Here's your tax -- it's listed on your payroll stub, where it pays for these things.
KING: What's the total?
MOORE: Hear this out. In France, you have free health care, free college, and free or near free day care. The average America, if they don't have their health care covered, it's 12,000 dollars a year out of their pocket. That's a tax. If they're paying day care, 200 bucks a week, a month, whatever. That's a few thousands a year. College loans, people are paying their college loans at 40 years old, thousands of dollars in college that you don't pay in France.
If you added up tonight what every American, what you're paying right now out of your pocket for your college education, for day care, for health care, add that on to the taxes you pay, you're paying a lot more than what you're paying in France.
We don't call it a tax in this country. We have other words for it. That's what we're doing. We're being taxed to death. The French, for all that they riot and get out in the street and protest and whatever, you never see them out in the street saying, we pay too many taxes. They never complain about that because they get something for it. They get to go to a doctor when they're sick. Their kids get to go to school and college, not have to worry about it. They have help with their kids if they have kids and have to work.
That's all taken care of. They don't complain about their taxes. We complain about our taxes because we can't get a pothole fixed.
Moore, of course, harbors some absurd notions (he has many, to say the least) about what constitutes a "tax." So, let's examine the record on taxes as understood by 99% of the rest of the planet: Moore's "facts" about what the French and other Europeans pay in taxes -- less than Americans, he says -- are just plain laughable. For example, from where did Moore get his "fact" that the French pay 10% in income taxes? He doesn't say. Like the U.S., France has a progressive income tax with their rates ranging from 0% to 46.75% and intermediate brackets of 7.5%, 21%, 31%, 41%. (Source.) This source notes that the French income tax begins at Moore's stated 10% and ranges as high as 48.1%. (It also notes that the French have to pay a sizable 19.6% VAT.) The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) calculates that the "combined effects of personal income tax, employee and employer social security contributions, payroll taxes and cash benefits" facing the French are quite larger than that facing Americans. For a single French individual the combined total is 50.1%, while for a married couple it's 41.7%. For the same in the U.S. it's 29.1% and 11.9% respectively. (See also this chart.) Be sure to also compare taxes of the other European countries to those of the United States in the previous links.
And notice how Moore delves into his typical labyrinthine word-smithing: He says that the supposed 10% French income tax "pays for everything," and that each thing that that 10% pays for is itemized on a Frenchman's paycheck. But at the same he states that "what they (the French) do is they have these other taxes." Hmm. I'm left scratching my head -- does the supposed 10% French income tax "pay for everything" ... or are there "these other taxes" as well? It's pretty obvious it's the latter (since there's that French 19.6% VAT in addition to income taxes) but when it comes to Moore playing it straight, well that's quite a bit to ask now, isn't it?
—D. S. Hube is an educator and a member of the National Association of Scholars. He blogs regularly at The Colossus of Rhodey.
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I initially made an error
May 1, 2008 - 18:33 ET by D. S. Hube... in the title, using "Less Taxes" rather than "More Taxes." I changed it immediately upon realizing the mistake; hopefully the change will take effect quickly! Sorry for the boo-boo.
Sorry, DS
May 1, 2008 - 18:38 ET by ThisnThatIt's still wrong. You meant Moore taxes, didn't you?
___________________________________
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it is in English, thank a Soldier. - My barber
LOL!
May 1, 2008 - 18:48 ET by D. S. HubeYes, I suppose I did, Thisn That! :-)
Let's see, now. I'm done
May 1, 2008 - 18:45 ET by ThisnThatLet's see, now. I'm done with college, but instead of paying my loans until I'm 40, I have to (via taxes) pay someone else's taxes until I retire at 65??!?!!@
Worse yet, I have to pay for Moore's economics degree? Or any class he wants to take in filmaking?!
___________________________________
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it is in English, thank a Soldier. - My barber
That's what I thought
May 1, 2008 - 18:47 ET by taterThat's what I thought too...plus my health care is more like 1200 dollars a year instead of 12,000 because I had a choice in the matter, oh and I don't have kids so I don't have to pay a fee for child care but in France I would be paying for child care for someone elses kids.
"They need to have a course in college called common sense and everyone should take it. Problem is there isn't too many people that could pass or teach it." -my grandfather
Moore or Less?
May 1, 2008 - 19:29 ET by theta sigmaI really find it hard to believe that this buffoon is taken seriously by anyone---wait-a-minute, he's a hero to the 'libs' /dems....that explains it: he Lies, he distorts, and he has no comprehension of the facts, let alone the issues involved.
Yep....a typical 'liberal' dimwit, I mean , democrat.
Piggish Moore styles himself as a 'crusader', that he is "Telling Truth to Power' (another 1 of the idiotic phrases that the Left indulges in).
Here is the 'Telling Truth to Power' that the dems DON'T want you to hear: Americans are OVER taxed, with Trillions of dollars wasted on programs that are blatantly vote-buying schemes designed to keep dems in Power, and they don't give a damn if it hurts the country.
You want proof?
Get rid of withholding on people's paychecks.
Let ALL working Americans get their full paycheck...
...and then pay the taxes.
Weekly.
When the public actually sees just how much they are paying, the dems will be finished as a political party.
But as the last 8 years have shown, the dems will do ANYTHING to gain power.
And they'll do anything to hang on to it.
The Doctor: Can't make ends meet...probably too many economists in the government.
Leela: These "taxes"...they are like sacrifices to tribal Gods?
The Doctor: Well...roughly speaking. But paying taxes is more painful.
Hear! Hear!
May 1, 2008 - 20:43 ET by Chris McMullenWhat's really pathetic is the walking skeleton, Larry King, doesn't challenge that fat slob. How is paying for daycare and healthcare a tax? In fatty Mike's world, *everything's* a tax -- food, clothing, transportation, shelter.
It's nauseating how the weak-minded majority of this country believes this crap Michael Moore spews.
I fear for the future.
In fatty Mike's world,
May 2, 2008 - 08:52 ET by pbanks7In fatty Mike's world, *everything's* a tax -- food,
It sure looks like he has no problem eating his taxes.
MSM - shaping all the perceptions you need to believe.
It is Soooo obvious
May 1, 2008 - 19:00 ET by Delsathat his over sized skull is not protecting a brain.
Moore is an idiot.
May 1, 2008 - 20:24 ET by kgIn Denmark taxes start at 50% and go up from there. My uncle paid 80%. Plus sales taxes on cars are 100% and up. Gas is over $8.00 agallon.
Moore is an idiot.
"Forget change, I want improvement!"
You Don't Know The Half Of It
May 1, 2008 - 21:24 ET by geoff.galeI moved to Flint, MI in 1971 to take a job there and this oaf was just starting to ramp up his slow lumber to notoriety. He started a local hippie rag that carried the most insipid "creative" works. He didn't have an original bone in his head, so the format of the thing was ripped off from any number of other hippie rags.
I played music in my off hours and hung with the "hip" musician crowd in Flint (I know, I know, oxymoron alert). This slothful ox was often invited to gatherings that I attended, and though I don't have a collection of Michael Moore anecdotes to share, I do recall that he was physically repugnant and just plain mean - angry at everything. When everyone else had gotten to some chemically happy state, he was still humping his anger around to anyone who'd listen. Even his laugh and humour was mean - he genuinely enjoyed picking at people that he thought wouldn't beat the living snot out of him. The tough guys from the GM factories didn't put up with much of his sarcastic bombast.
I was awfully glad when I'd heard he'd left town.
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
- Edmund Burke (1729 - 1797)
www.conservativeboot...
geoff g
May 2, 2008 - 00:20 ET by gfrrmandid you ever get a chance to see Flint,MI's own boys, Grand Funk Railroad somewhere there locally? I'm a HUGE fan, as if you couldn't tell by my screen name......btw, Moore IS a tool. No matter what "state"(as in buzzed, heck 50 states as well) he's ever in he is still a lyin' tool!
"Eventually, Socialists run out of other peoples' money...." MARGARET THATCHER
GFR Back When They Were Local
May 2, 2008 - 03:39 ET by geoff.galeThough I moved to Flint in '71, I had friends up there long before then. Back in the mid-60's I used to drive up there from my home in the northern suburbs of Detroit. One of the guys in my high school band was friends with Terry Knight, who at the time was playing with the Pack and doing a DJ gig at the AM one-lunger up in Flint. Terry used to get us gigs at the clubs up in Flint. After I'd been up there a few times, I'd met a few folks and would go up just to hang out and jam.
By the time I moved to Flint, the GFR horse had already left the barn. The only times I saw them play was some very informal sets at some parties. They spent much of their time on the road, so it wasn't frequent. I knew them very casually through friends, but couldn't say that I knew any of them well.
Funny thing is that fifteen years later, in the mid '80's I dated Mark Farner's ex-wife for a while, then had all sorts of awkward moments with her when I joined another band in the '90's and she was working for and dating the frontman who had a graphic arts business. Of course it was all complicated by the fact that in the meantime, she'd had a kid with a close friend and ex-business partner of mine. Yikes!
Thinking about it, there was a lot of talent in that area at the time. Of course, Terry Knight and the Pack before GFR, then GFR, Question Mark and the Mysterians, Mitch Ryder was a regular in the area, loads of R&B acts in the bars. In addition, Detroit had all that great Motown buzz going on, and there were lots of good local bands like MC5, Brownsville Station, Rationals, Bob Seger and the Last Herd, Amboy Dukes, Alice Cooper, etc.
Those were the days!
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
- Edmund Burke (1729 - 1797)
www.conservativeboot...
Saw Grand Funk back in 1982
May 2, 2008 - 09:51 ET by Dan The Man 2Saw Grand Funk back in 1982 at Billy Bobs Texas in Fort Worth. I was able to go backstage and it was an experience. My brother was working the sound boards at Billy Bobs at the time.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
Leftist-lingo
May 1, 2008 - 19:00 ET by GalvanicMoore's playing the same game that the Clinton's have played for years. Bill Clinton didn't speak of increasing taxes. He spoke of "investments" in education, infrastructure, etc. Investment is a positive, forward-leaning word, whereas taxes is negative.
Moore's objective is to convince his audience that Americans can have everything relatively cheaply, by lying about what Frenchmen actually pay in taxes. If the voters accept that they can have free health care, pre-school education for 3 year olds, free college, etc. at no additional cost, they'll elect a Clinton or Obama.
The argument manifests itself most clearly in Hillary Clinton's 'greening' agenda, in which she conveniently avoids the ugly math, and merely declares that any radical measures we undertake to curb 'global warming' will be underwritten by all the new jobs that will spring up in the 'green' industries. Therefore, by her yardstick, it's a no brainer.
If only it were that simple . . .
Please, let's never become
May 1, 2008 - 19:03 ET by mostlymoderatePlease, let's never become like the French. The French are slowly becoming a Muslim-Socialist disaster.
Thanks Michael...Appreciate it
May 1, 2008 - 19:14 ET by dboMoore is a total idiot. Every time he opens his mouth he helps the Republican party. Hopefully he makes a new quickie movie in time for an October release.
I keep wishing he'd
May 1, 2008 - 19:51 ET by CortillaenI keep wishing he'd actually go and make this movie. 'Course, it turns out alright (and then some) in the comic.
www.rhjunior.com Great comics with a hefty dose of Christian and anti-nutjob goodness.
"With your mind as high as Mt. Fuji you can see all things clearly. And you can see all the forces that shape events; not just the things near to you." -Miyamoto Musashi
This must be wishful
May 1, 2008 - 19:17 ET by zfThis must be wishful thinking, as in Moore *wishes* we paid more in taxes than France.
Well most health problems are work related, so work shouldpay
May 1, 2008 - 19:25 ET by Daniel BakerHealth Care should be free to those that work. Children should get free health care until they work
This comment is so stupid I
May 2, 2008 - 08:28 ET by amberThis comment is so stupid I have to ask if you are serious.
It is my belief that most health issues are due to people not taking care of themselves, eating too much, sitting on the couch watching TV, eating junk, smoking, drinking too much, not brushing their teeth, not washing their hands, not keeping a clean home...
Moore's Point(ed Head)
May 1, 2008 - 19:27 ET by geoff.galeBoy did he get his numbers wrong. 10% would work if everybody paid - no exemptions, deductions or credits and corporations paid the same along with non-profits. That 10% tithe has served Churches around the world in good stead for millenia.
Our problem in America is that we have a nested tax scheme that nicks you coming and going. Taxes such as the inheritance tax - this is money that's already been taxed, taxed again just because it's changing hands. We pay to the feds, we pay to the state, many of us pay to the city. We pay to use the landfill, we pay to use roads, we pay at the airpoit for the TSA, etc, etc. In many areas property taxes are scandalously high. We have fees and use taxes up the ying-yang. In all, we pay a far higher tax rate than we think, it's just spread around to a variety of taxmen.
The one thing we share in common with the French (and most other Europeans) is that we're all being taxed to death in order that some politician can get his wife's third cousin a job in some agency pushing paper.
Death to the taxman!
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
- Edmund Burke (1729 - 1797)
www.conservativeboot...
Or so Hillary can give away money to inner-city organizations
May 1, 2008 - 19:34 ET by Daniel BakerWhich then donate to her campaign
delete
May 1, 2008 - 20:29 ET by motherbeltdelete
Moore can't get thru a short
May 1, 2008 - 20:37 ET by GregEMoore can't get thru a short paragraph without distorting facts as truth. It's beyond his capability. I'm not sure if he does it on purpose, or if his mind is so screwed up he doesn't realize he's doing it. LOL
Because he says so much crap, it's hard to discuss it all. One thing he uses, that libs like to use, is the word "free." Yet he's contradicting himself. Free college, free day care, free health care?If one pays a tax for something is it free? How many times does a liberal have to be told this before they get it? Evidentally we don't know that number yet.
I didn't see it mentioned...
May 1, 2008 - 20:38 ET by MightyMouthBut doesn't Michael Moron know that the Euro is trading at a buck 55? Doesn't that make each percentage comparison to the US already 55% skewed?
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
Uhmm, you say that's like
May 1, 2008 - 20:46 ET by mandrakeUhmm, you say that's like it's good thing...it's not. For example, because of the strong Canadian dollar, the price of gas for us (relative to the US) has not risen quite as much...damn don't tell Dick Cheney I said that!
And correct you are sir...
May 1, 2008 - 21:02 ET by MightyMouth...but for the purposes of comparison, it proves Mike the Moron wrong. Example: Two workers, one in the US and one in Europe both make 60,000 Dollars and Euros, respectively. So if they both are taxed at a 30% income rate the Euro guy pays 55% more compared to the US guy..right? Am I looking at this wrong?
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
If it's just a comparison
May 2, 2008 - 15:40 ET by CortillaenIf it's just a comparison of tax rates (percentages), there's nothing wrong with it, because the specific amounts are irrelevent. However, if one wants to compare the actual amounts of money (ie $5000, 2000 euros, etc.) paid in taxes between two countries, basing the comparison on two people earning X dollars and euros, respectively, would be invalid. To do that comparison one would need to go off of incomes of Y euros and (Y x 1.55) dollars (to use your exchange rate), respectively.
The answer to your specific question is that, since 60k euros is worth 93k dollars, the person making 60k euros would pay more real money in taxes than the person making $60k at the same interest rate.
www.rhjunior.com Great comics with a hefty dose of Christian and anti-nutjob goodness.
"With your mind as high as Mt. Fuji you can see all things clearly. And you can see all the forces that shape events; not just the things near to you." -Miyamoto Musashi
The US is not like France
May 1, 2008 - 20:38 ET by GothampcLet's go over this again:
Why do liberals compare the US (population 301,139,947
not including illegals) to France (population 64,000,000)?
The two countries can't be held in comparison.
Michael Moore is a
May 1, 2008 - 21:22 ET by doug1950Michael Moore is a congenital liar, an ignoramus and a "blivit". One day he will surely burst wide open and the whole world will finally know and come to realize he is and was full of ****.
Liberals and facts
May 1, 2008 - 21:30 ET by LionKingLIEberals and facts just do not mix.
Just something very Monty Pythonish....
May 1, 2008 - 21:47 ET by celatorI dunno, there's just something very Monty Pythonish about the hapless Larry King interviewing the obfuscating Michael Moore. Where's John Cleese when you really need him? All King needs is a tin foil hat to complete the scene. And maybe a dead parrot in Moore's hand.
TO ALL THE "FREE" HEALTH CARE ADVOCATES
May 1, 2008 - 21:47 ET by RMRAs long as you intend to use American tax dollars to pay for your FREE health care then it’s not FREE.
The only way you can supply FREE health care to all Americans is to have some other country pay for it.
So all the money that is
May 1, 2008 - 22:13 ET by mandrakeSo all the money that is paid in other forms..such as
-company benefits
-medicad
-drug benefits to seniors
-disabilty benefits
-malpractice insurance for doctors
I could go on and on..but none of that is 'technically' a tax and as such is no drain the US economy and there is no possible way it could made more efficient by consolidation into one program.
Mixed examples
May 2, 2008 - 11:13 ET by CobraMan"but none of that is 'technically' a tax and as such is no drain the US
economy and there is no possible way it could made more efficient by
consolidation into one program."
You're mixing examples of tax revenue and tax expenses.
Company benefits - Taxed by Federal and State Governments, a tax source.
Medicad - Paid by Federal and State Governments, a tax expense.
Drug benefits to seniors - Paid by Federal and State Governments, a tax expense.
Disability benefits - Paid by Federal and State Governments, a tax expense.
Malpractice insurance for doctors - Taxed by Federal and State Governments, a tax source.
I could go on and on...
"there is no possible way it could made more efficient by consolidation into one program."
You got that right! It's impossible to consolidate both tax revenue and tax expenses under a single program since we're dealing with various sources of tax income here from millions of individual businesses. To consolidate all forms of tax revenue, you would have to consolidate all existing individual businesses into one super-company (which is called an absolute monopoly) and place it under direct government control. That's socialism and it's the worst system of government and financing for providing health care, and other benefits, to citizens. Just ask the former USSR about that.
I'm not against subsidized education
May 1, 2008 - 22:59 ET by reasonsjesterI'm not against subsidized university education, because there is too much grade inflation and they don't pass students on merit anymore. Its a busines, and as such they pass everyone. That lessens the value of my degree, so I have to keep going to prove that I am "really" educated. Now I owe a was of dough, since I'm not a minority. That's my choice, but a choice due to the number of dumb or lazy students that the universities give degrees to. They need to cut liberal arts, and just get to the meat of the training for any given occupation and shave about 3 years off an advanced degree.
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. - Marcus Aurelius
Thanks Michael, and I do
May 1, 2008 - 23:29 ET by tracheostomyThanks Michael, and I do see your reasoning behind it.
But still, I'd much rather make the decisions about all those payments you listed instead of the federal government, thanks.
And BTW, your fuzzy math is showing.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
Wait why does he care how
May 2, 2008 - 01:21 ET by wiwfWait why does he care how much we're paying in taxes? I thought taxes gave him ecstasy!
The Rocky Mountain Collegian: Illustrating Idiocy
THATS IT
May 2, 2008 - 01:47 ET by Prof.ChaosThats it no more cheeseburgers and fries,this fool has gone over the hill.
Is it just me, or is Michael
May 2, 2008 - 08:40 ET by Jack BauerIs it just me, or is Michael Moore looking more like Roseanne Barr these days?
ROFL!! You know what,
May 2, 2008 - 08:48 ET by motherbeltROFL!!
You know what, Jack? I've never seen them in the same place at the same time!! Have you?
You're right. And if I did
May 2, 2008 - 09:15 ET by Jack BauerYou're right. And if I did -- it would be the most blubber I'd seen in one place since I spotted a school of whales migrating past Monterey, Ca.
oops.
May 2, 2008 - 13:56 ET by Mica the Magnificentoops. Link disappeared.
That 10% includes the French
May 2, 2008 - 08:43 ET by amberThat 10% includes the French military? The US has a huge military budget partly because most of Europe has gotten rid of their invading forces. They know we will rescue them and so they use our military to protect them from everyone while saving their country loads of cash. They can yap all they want about the big mean super power, but when it comes down to it, they need us to be a super power. Their taxes would be way higher if they had to maintain a real military.
So you really make out
May 2, 2008 - 09:39 ET by Hero SquadSo you really make out during the 4 years you go to college... but what about the other 46-odd years of your working life?
It's not just about paying for someone else's kid to go to college; it's about removing that sense of responsibility to take advantage of the opportunity while they are there. When I studied in England, most of the kids who were there received fully funded college education, plus living expenses. Surprisingly, several of those kids had no intention of taking it seriously; they were totally abusing the system to get a free ride for a year of partying, until they went out and got the joe job they were planning to get anyway.
I'll never forget the guy who proudly told me, "Well, I went to my class for the week." Five courses, two classes a week. He went to 1 of 10. He wasn't back in the fall.
Not all of them were like that. Many did work hard and take it seriously. But this is why a scholarship system is superior to a free college education system. You've got to earn it, respect it, and I need to know the money isn't going to fund thousands of partiers with no intention of making good on their academic promises.
Hey, who put this soap box under my feet?
*****
"People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues." - George Will
That would be great except...
May 2, 2008 - 17:27 ET by reasonsjesterThe states are using education as a way of propping up local economies - they jack up tuition,federal funding for students goes up, prestidgitario! we here a giant sucking sound of tax dollars and student debt. We need to switch the hoover off, and have a system of education where dumb people aren't allowed to get in. If students didn't learn what multiplication and division or basic reading and writing when they were in high school, they can scrounge to get enough cash to go to community college and prove their bona fides there. The bottom line is we need stricter criteria for students to get in and graduate, because I am tired of competing with people in the job market who pissed around in college and got the same B.A. I did, except grade inflation makes them look like better students than they were.
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. - Marcus Aurelius
Right on with the education
May 2, 2008 - 11:26 ET by kdizzydazeI remember in college taking courses such as "drug and alcohol study" and "history of motion picture" and "corporate communications" just to fill out my credits to graduate. All I needed was an "underwater basket weaving" or "hair combing 300 level" course and I would've been all set.
I'd a gradjidated Magnum Con Carne.
Right on with the education
May 2, 2008 - 11:26 ET by kdizzydazeI remember in college taking courses such as "drug and alcohol study" and "history of motion picture" and "corporate communications" just to fill out my credits to graduate. All I needed was an "underwater basket weaving" or "hair combing 300 level" course and I would've been all set.
I'd a gradjidated Magnum Con Carne.
woops
May 2, 2008 - 11:29 ET by kdizzydazeFat fingered the entry - sorry about the double duty
That's okay, kdizzy. LOL-They don't start cutting off fingers...
May 2, 2008 - 11:41 ET by R D Helm...until at least your third double post. :-^)
What the American people are looking for is somebody who can solve their problems. - Barack Obama, April 27, 2008
Hey, I took "History of
May 2, 2008 - 16:56 ET by SarahAnnieHey, I took "History of Motion Pictures" in college. The good, the bad, and the ugly (Plan 9 from Outer Space, anyone?)
Nebraskans for War: Peace through Strength
And on an actual serious note --
May 2, 2008 - 12:00 ET by kdizzydazeMoore actually said during this so-called interview, that healthcare is a right.
So, this must be what he means --
It's my right to have healthcare - regardless of my eating habits - regardless of my exercise habits - regardless of my smoking habits- regardless of my drinking habits - regardless of my use of illegal drugs - regardless of my engaging in unprotected sex with muliple partners, etc.
Quick, get me the duck tape!!!!
In Britain the National
May 2, 2008 - 12:13 ET by Jack BauerIn Britain the National Healthcare System is refusing life-saving treatment to many people based on their "lifestyle"
For instance, if you smoke, you can and will be refused cardiac care. People have died.
So much for the "right" to socialized healthcare . Moore is an ignorant oaf.
One exception of course, people with AIDs who indulge in high risk behavior (nudge nudge, wink, wink) are not refused. No judgments made there.
KING: Socialist
May 2, 2008 - 12:08 ET by Jack BauerErr, didn't the French just kick out the socialists and vote in a conservative President?
As a matter of fact, the French PAY MORE in tax than the British, which is why so many French come to London to work. For instance the VAT (Sales Tax) is only 17.5% -- I say only -- that's still a chunk, believe me.
And the UK tax rates are higher than the US as far as I know. Except for Coporation tax, which is lower.
What a load of tripe!
May 2, 2008 - 14:36 ET by NL207What a load of tripe!
Aggregate taxes in Germany amount to 60% of gross for middle and upper middle class workers. There is a national value added tax that is 19% by itself. Income taxes in Germany are 15% - 42% for middle class workers. Municipality taxes amount to approximately 15%.
France isn't any different. French income tax for middle class individuals is 14-30%. Franch VAT is 19.6%. The French have a wealth tax. You are taxed on the value of your wealth! It's about 1.3%. They also have greedy inheritance taxes of up to 40%. Then there are "... two local property taxes which you will have to pay: taxe foncière and taxe d’habitation."
So where does Michael Moore get the idea Taxes in France are 10%? Only if you earn less than 11,000 Euros a year, just above the US poverty level.