The blogosphere continues to boil with outrage over the Times's front-page story from Sunday on veterans coming home from Iraq and Afghanistan and committing murders, a story immediately discredited by cursory research as journalistically and statistically worthless. The paper's main finding, that 121 veterans either committed a killing in this country or are charged with one, was useless without context, which the Times either couldn't or didn't provide.
The story failed basic journalism, with the Times making no attempt to compare murder rates of veterans to that of the general population. Can one imagine the Times spouting out a raw number of murders committed by, say, illegal immigrants? Without context, the Times' big finding was useless, a single data point floating in space.
Armed Liberal tackled the story on that very point the day it appeared:
"I keep asking the simple question -- well, what does it mean? How do these 121 murderers compare with the base rate of murderers in the population? And the answer appears to be damn well."
Thursday's New York Post ran a scathing editorial on the Times's "Killer Vet Lie" and called on Public Editor Clark Hoyt to respond:
"Indeed, it's impossible to take issue with the statistics cited by reporters Deborah Sontag and Lizette Alvarez -- because their article doesn't have any.
"For most editors, that would be a red flag. Not at the Times, not in a piece that appealed to the editors' dearest prejudices."
...
"Is the number of killings by combat vets dramatically higher than the rate involving people of the same age who've never served in the military?
"It's a good question -- in fact, it's the key question. But the Times never asked it. Or, if it did, it never reported the answer.
"Perhaps for good reason -- because the statistics tell a far different tale than that appearing in the Times."
Indeed, those who've run the numbers on various sets of crime statistics finds that one is significantly safer around veterans than around non-veterans of similar age. The Post's military correspondent Ralph Peters did some crunching:
"...to match the homicide rate of their [nonmilitary] peers, our troops would've had to come home and commit about 150 murders a year, for a total of 700 to 750 murders between 2003 and the end of 2007" -- six times the number the Times cited."
Bob Owens has a comprehensive piece at Pajamas Media, where he dug in further into the individual cases and found that
"...of those 121 summaries [in a sidebar story], 40 do not show direct ties between the stresses of deploying to combat zones and the homicides for which these veterans were charged, and of those, 14 were of highly dubious nature."
The Weekly Standard has a useful roundup of the most cogent criticism of the story, which doesn't seem to be getting much in the way of defense from the left wing of the blogosphere (except for the dead-enders at the Huffington Post, naturally).
(See previous NewsBusters coverage by Warner Todd Huston)
—Clay Waters is the director of Times Watch, an MRC project tracking the New York Times.















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The NYT should be a-scared,
January 17, 2008 - 12:39 ET by Roger the ShrubberThe NYT should be a-scared, with all those psychotic vets armed to the teeth raping and pillaging their way across the country...
Gee..... As an aging combat
January 17, 2008 - 12:56 ET by BDGee..... As an aging combat vet I hadn't felt like committing homicide, then this was published.
I wonder, are there enough
January 17, 2008 - 13:26 ET by CortillaenI wonder, are there enough members of the Times staff to get the number of vet murders up to the national average?
In other news, I'm still waiting on the Times' response to my email. Well, I'm actually not, seeing as I don't really expect an answer, but that's beside the point.
www.rhjunior.com Great comics with a hefty dose of Christian and anti-nutjob goodness.
"With your mind as high as Mt. Fuji you can see all things clearly. And you can see all the forces that shape events; not just the things near to you." -Miyamoto Musashi
I think the key thing about
January 17, 2008 - 18:37 ET by BDI think the key thing about this story is not what it says about the personnel in the US military, but the perception of the US military by the New York Times.
They just naturally ASSUMED that 121 murders in the space of several years would prove that the US military was full of psychotic murdering thugs. They needed no research to further the theory since, without actually knowing any military personnel themselves, they just KNEW what it meant.
BD
January 17, 2008 - 19:21 ET by Jerry MackExcellent comments! Also their message is that the only reason that they had committed murders was that they had been in one of these countries.
Correct. Did they do any
January 18, 2008 - 10:42 ET by BDCorrect. Did they do any research on each of the cases? Not likely at all....
Once you get a liberal to think he "Knows something" it is playing hell to change their mind regardless of statistics.
The o'Reilly factor covered
January 18, 2008 - 10:48 ET by BDThe o'Reilly factor covered this well last night.
I believe that Ralph Peters pretty much concurred with the comments that the Press dislikes the military as a class and it does not help that a healthy dose of Bush Derangement Syndrome (BDS) is present.
O'Reilly, on the other hand moderated the comments by indicating that he did not believe the Times hates the troops but rather it is totally due to BDS.
From this troopers perspective , Peters is correct, not only do the staff of the Times not KNOW any soldiers, but they dislike the NOTION of soldiers.
In the Times world, it works like this "Tye died Protestors = Good citizens: Soldiers = Thugs."
To assist them, someone
January 17, 2008 - 13:02 ET by Jack BauerTo assist them, someone should print the address of the NYTimes.
Okay, that falls to me... 229 West 43rd St. Basically just head in the direction of that huge building known as the Empire State.
Then look out for a bunch a snotty nosed liberals, with their thumbs up their derriere. Follow them.
are you sure about
January 17, 2008 - 13:05 ET by taterare you sure about thumbs...I would think it would be their heads.
Do you realize how much it costs to run for office? More than any honest man could afford. -Montgomery Burns
Heads up..
January 17, 2008 - 13:49 ET by Jack BauerHa. Probably. But in private and networking with others of that ilk.
A$shats...
January 18, 2008 - 10:33 ET by pbanks7....using their navel for a peephole.
MSM - shaping all the perceptions you need to believe.
MSM scum traitors...
January 17, 2008 - 12:44 ET by TruthMongerMSM scum traitors...
Idiot marxists.
January 17, 2008 - 12:45 ET by rbosqueIdiot marxists.
Vet murder stats
January 17, 2008 - 13:03 ET by anneftxanneftx
Big surprise. NYT has been violating journalistic standards for yonks. I read it on-line in order to see what broadcast news shows will be 'reporting' that evening w/o having to go thru the pain of watching the actual programs.
Somehow, the word 'lockstep' comes to mind.
Where are the stats on Party affiliation?
January 17, 2008 - 13:06 ET by Mark_for_SenateThey ought to start publishing the party affiliation of all murderers. I suspect a huge disparity leaning to the D side...
To know and not do, is to not yet know
NY Slimes
January 17, 2008 - 16:01 ET by PAPA LThe NY SLIMES one day they give out military secrets and put our HEROes at risk then they give out secret info on anti terrorism procedures, NOW they cast untrue despersions on true American Heroes. Rise up America put them out of business! Stop buying anything from any advertiser that advertises in the NYT. For that matter any other Anti American rag.
A PROUD AMERICAN
Bad Link
January 17, 2008 - 17:35 ET by TinianThis is a great blog entry, however, a link is bad.
Here's a working link to the mentioned "Killer Vet Lie" editorial (print version).
Here's also a working link to the article written by Ralph Peters that was mentioned in the editorial, "Smearing Soldiers".
I can't find it now, but
January 17, 2008 - 20:50 ET by MikeBI can't find it now, but Iowahawk had a blog on FreeRepublic (I think) about all of the crimes committed by journalists, including links to the stories. Journalists have been committing murder, rape, child molestation, and robbery and theft. Perhaps we just need to lock up all journalists because they are such violent, perverted people. I would have liked to link to his article, as he used the NYT's very own methods of statistics to make his case.
"A communist is someone who reads Marx. An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx." Ronald Reagan
→ BOR
January 18, 2008 - 02:53 ET by Cool ArrowO'Reilly devoted a considerable portion of his program tonight to this issue.
He used BDS as the reason.
Although I agree with his BDS analysis, I think it's also true the Old Yellow Lady also hates the military.
I ♣ My Seal
Once again it proves...
January 18, 2008 - 08:15 ET by BobAnthonyThat Ann Coulter may have had a point in supposedly saying she wanted to see a bomb put inside the Times building. With this so-called story, I wouldn't be surprised if someone were to try it. The NY Slimes is tantamount to reading Mein Kampf, Utopia, Das Kapital and the Communist Manifesto.
And another thing, I can think of two good uses for the so-called paper of record:
1) LINING LITTER BOXES
2) LINING THE BOTTOM OF BIRDCAGES!
And may I make a suggestion, try reading the Post or giving some support to the NY Sun
Scrap that second idea.
January 18, 2008 - 10:16 ET by Hunter12Something like that may be what set the birds off last time. Didn't you see the movie.
NYT stock down double the fall of the DJ Average for the last week. Down 321% in the last four years. Anyone think Pinch can figure it out?
"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last." - Sir Winston Churchill
20 year navy vet here. 17
January 18, 2008 - 13:02 ET by JWF20 year navy vet here. 17 of those spent overseas. Retired in 2001.
Being overseas all those years, I was not exposed to a lot of newspapers/newsmagazines. Just the Stars & Stripes newspaper and they did not spend a lot of time bashing their readers as you might imagine.
I have read a lot since 2001 and I have learned a lot about myself and my fellow veterans.
I have come to realize that I was/probably still am a combat stressed, cold blooded, unedjumakated, dog runnin' over, disfigured woman hatin', koran flushin', baby killin', real terrorizin', naked pile o' prisoner takin', gitmo lovin', nazi emulatin', corpse desecratin', mohommed dog poster makin', hippie punchin', absentee ballot republican lovin', genital 'lectrocutin', mosque worshiper slaughterin', mercenary loser who can't recognize when a war is lost and only joined up cuz i could not get a real job.
Did I miss anything?
Odd, prior to reading all that, I always thought it was about three things.
Duty, Honor, Country
Notes.
1. Hat tip to n.y. times, newsweek, tnr, murtha, durbin, kerry, reid, o'donnel, the guy in the next cubicle et al
2. The hippie punchin was all me. had to sneak it in.
Beautiful. Don't change a
January 21, 2008 - 04:02 ET by CortillaenBeautiful. Don't change a bit, friend, and thank you for two decades of service.
www.rhjunior.com Great comics with a hefty dose of Christian and anti-nutjob goodness.
"With your mind as high as Mt. Fuji you can see all things clearly. And you can see all the forces that shape events; not just the things near to you." -Miyamoto Musashi
Iowahawk
January 18, 2008 - 17:36 ET by sterm26Sorry if someone else has brought this up, but Iowahawk has a devastating response to the NY Times story:
http://iowahawk.type...