Media Promote Church Involvement In Politics...For Liberal Agendas

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For several days NewsBusters has been chronicling media outrage over Catholic bishop Tom Tobin asking pro-choice Patrick Kennedy to refrain from the sacrament of communion.

In all of their indignation over a church being involved in politics, they must have forgotten about the recent past when President Obama asked churches to help him push government-mandated healthcare. When ministers stepped into the politicial discussion back then, media outlets were more than willing to celebrate it.

In late August of this year, President Obama held a meeting with left-leaning religious leaders to convince them that government mandated healthcare was a "moral imperative," and that ministers should be involved in educating their fold on the issue.

The media protrayed the meeting as a great idea and praised the ministers who attended. MSNBC ran an article from CQ writer Jane Norman that gushed with excitement over sermons laced with politics and prayer meetings aimed at congressional districts:

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The "40 Days for Health Reform" initiative by the interfaith groups will include prayer services in congressional districts, meetings of religious leaders with members of Congress and a "Nationwide Health Care Sermon Weekend" with preaching from the pulpit on the need for a health care overhaul. The leaders say they're the ones who see up close the problems with the insurance system and the need for change.

Was Norman worried about this kind of activism crossing a cultural line? Not really. To the contrary, she quoted one of the ministers involved who encouraged churches to directly take on angry town hallers:

"There are people in the country who want to stop an honest, fair, civil and moral conversation about health care. They're organized and they really want to shut down democracy and we can't let that happen," said Wallis. "The faith community is literally going to stand in the way of those who want to stop a conversation."

So it was okay for churches to actively "stand in the way" of conservative protestors in order to further a liberal agenda. Nowhere in the article did Norman quote any critics or attempt to defend the protestors' position.

The NY Times joined the party then too, covering the meeting in an article that was clearly sympathetic to Obama's goals. The Times recounted that Obama used the meeting to ask "a coalition of religious leaders to help promote the plan."

Just like MSNBC, there was no thought given that religious activism might be frowned on as part of that whole separation-of-church-and-state thing. The article quoted Republicans who were critical of Obama's plan, but no one could be found to criticize Obama using churches as a political platform.

The most outrageous coverage of church activism in August came at the hands of the Philadelphia Inquirer. That paper found a spokesperson from Americans United for the Separation of Church and State to explain that churches were more than welcome to help the state as long as they took up causes that met his personal approval:

Where religion and politics have often converged on divisive issues like abortion and same-sex marriage, Rob Boston, spokesman for the Americans United for the Separation of Church and State, said the health-care debate represents a different dynamic.

"In recent years, we have seen progressive religious groups being a little more vocal . . . and I think this is part of that," Boston said.

And yes, you guessed it, no one was interviewed by the Inquirer who might have thought government healthcare was not such a worthy cause as to warrant church activism.

How times have changed. Now that a Catholic bishop was thrust into the spotlight - not for writing political sermons or standing in the way of protestors, but for simply asking all of his members to respect basic principles - these same media outlets saw religious meddling as a problem.

The NY Times reprinted an AP article on November 12 that called the issue a "clash," a "feud," and an "uncomfortable tangle of faith and politics." Tobin, the bishop at the center of the story, had apparently "bashed" liberal politicians in the past, and his response to Kennedy's story was full of "scathing criticism."

The article predictably found someone to say that priests had no business being publicly vocal about politics:

''I don't think there's any winner here,'' said the Rev. Thomas Reese, a church observer and senior fellow at the Woodstock Theological Center at Georgetown University. ''I think this is the kind of thing that would be better discussed between a member of Congress and his bishop behind closed doors.''

So government healthcare was an issue worthy of politically-charged sermons, but being pro-life was best kept behind closed doors.

NewsBuster Tim Graham reported on Tuesday that the NBC Nightly News suggested priests were "crossing the line" by witholding communion from liberals and called Tobin's position "political blackmail" for criticizing a famous Kennedy.

According to the mainstream media, politics are only divisive when a conservative position is taken, and only conservative ministers should expect their churches to be separate from the state. If a religious leader uses the pulpit to advance liberal politics, the media can be expected to celebrate it.

Separation for thee, but not for me.


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The media will never get it

The media will never get it because they do not believe in the Real Presence. No one can take communion if they are in mortal sin, politician or not.

"they must have forgotten

"they must have forgotten about the recent past when..."

The selective amnesia of the propagandist. Because facts don't matter, only the audience watching & absorbing their lies at that second matters.

___________________________________________________________
Graphical conservative commentary - animations & pictures for posting on forums: http://ubama.org/anicommentary/

Candance

I agree with you about the Bishop had every right to do what they did, because its up to them. I am unsure the exact reason why he cannot get communion. Is it because he supports abortion rights? So If I never a abortion, but believe in abortion why that disquality me?  Little bit confused.

shawn

It would mean that you believe in something that totally goes against the church's beliefs.

 

Mr Shy

Ok, I guess that makes sense. Still do not believe it is very fair, It should be up to God to judge, not a Priest.

 

Shawn

Fair? It's their church.

I'd like to see you complain that a mosque is not allowing people who openly lobby for Islam to recognize gay people -- or better, women showing their faces and as much of their bodies as they feel like -- into their place of worship. Then you can argue, "Hey, it should be up to Allah, not the Mullahs."

EDIT: On top of this, the big difference here is, one religion takes a very nobel and compassionate stand (that of fetuses and life vs. death) while the other religion takes a host of stands that are irrational and often rooted in backwards, middle-ages thinking. Ones that are controversial at best to most westerners and progressives, and downright offensive and scary at worst.

 

Shy

Sorry dude, but why must you always bring up the Muslims do it worse defense. This has nothing to do with Muslims. If the topic of thread was a person no receiving a blessing, I would comment on it, but for now shy the topic is the Catholic Church.

Also I said the Preist is within his rights, but I do not agree it. If Kennedy was a abortion doctor, thats on thing, but he has pro choice views and In my opinion the decision sucks and I disagree with it.

 

Ironic

Indeed, shy here is using the "They do it too" defense, a la Jer. 

This is too funny. 

"If the man, with the power, can't keep it under control...some heads are gonna roll." -Judas Priest

Restless

You have a very good point. Instead of debating on the issue, he is deflecting to something else, which is exactly what he accuses Jer of.

I'm not taking sides here, it is just obvious Shy does not apply the double standard to himself.

shawn & rest1

My post is not a "they do it too" "defense". And I put both in quotes, because not only am I not bringing up Islam for some "they do it too" line of arguing/reasoning, I'm also not "defending" anything.

I'm sure you're both tired after your big Thanksgiving feasts, so rest up, return to NB nice and refreshed tomorrow, carefully read this thread starting with shawn's initial post, understand the context and why I might use the Islam and church/mosque analogy, then get back to me.

I hope you both do me proud and don't come back with the same idiocy.

 

You fail shy

In bringing islam up, you do indeed invoke the "they do it too" defense.

I'd like to see you complain that a mosque is not allowing people who
openly lobby for Islam to recognize gay people -- or better, women
showing their faces and as much of their bodies as they feel like --
into their place of worship. Then you can argue, "Hey, it should be up
to Allah, not the Mullahs."

Make me proud, repent of you idiocy, and promise to never do it again. 

"If the man, with the power, can't keep it under control...some heads are gonna roll." -Judas Priest

Rest1

Tsk tsk. You didn't give it a rest and come back tomorrow. It's an analogy to get to the root of shawn taking priests to task on allowing communion, that's all it is. The actual comparison of Islam's deeds to Christianity's deeds -- some "they do it too" thing -- is clearly not why I went down that road. At all. You must just want to get on my case because you have it out for me, who knows.

Again, you should have rested and, well, given it a rest. Right now you're stuck on stupid (which might just be where you are anyway.)

Rest, Rest1, rest.

And Happy Thanksgiving.

 

Shy,

You lack any defense for your actions, so you resort to ad hominem attacks against the restless one? For shame. You have now at least twice engaged in liberal tactics. Perhaps you are drunk from too much wine. Or maybe you're simply full of too much whine.

I don't have it out for you, and likely this will be my last post to you for quite some time. That is entirely up to you.

Feel free to have the last word. C-ya.  

"If the man, with the power, can't keep it under control...some heads are gonna roll." -Judas Priest

Rest1

Well, at least now you understand why I injected Islam into the debate.

Good night, chose. 

 

Good morning shy

I'm being objective here. Why exactly did you inject Islam into this topic? I said I disagreed, then you went into a diatribe about Islam why?

What does it have to do with the topic?  Thank you.

shawn

I'm pointing to how your disrespectful toward a religion's moral beliefs, with regards to taking the priest to task over deciding who's allowed in -- and over a belief that surrounds the sanctity of life, no less -- by using another religion (who's beliefs are far more controversial and troubling to the modern day man) as an example. In essence, to say, "Hey, you (or myself) would not interfere with who an Imam would allow in a mosque, and nor should we do that with Christianity."

 

Sorry Shy

"I'm pointing to how your disrespectful toward a religion's moral beliefs, with regards to taking the priest to task over deciding who's allowed in -- and over a belief that surrounds the sanctity of life, no less"

I agree with your first sentence, but afterwards not so much. I disgree with Churches decision, you then immediately talked about Islam, how they would have no tolerance and pretty much how awful Islam is. Its no biggie, lots of people do it and I was not even going to reply, but after Restless pointed out the double standard with what do with Jer, and I could not help but notice that he is 100 percent right.

shawn

...then immediately talked about Islam, how they would have no tolerance..."

You need to learn to read and understand words and expressed thoughts/ideas better, shawn, and also not fabricate new words.

I never brought up how they would have no tolerance -- i.e., how they would not tolerate you questioning them, or tolerate those not in line with their religious ideology. I neither touched on this nor was it the basis of my argument. I do bring up the fact that with Christianity, vs. Islam, the issue of abortion has to do with the sanctity of life -- a unique issue not found in other religions.

Your empty argument pointing to others here and my double standard is empty... and silly.

 

All right shy

This one is obviously not going anywhere, but at least it its civilized. I guess we both have our POV on things you say and the things you do.

shawn

Fair enough. :)

Now can I get back to working on my video? 

EDIT: and I meant "you're", a couple of posts up, not "your"...

 

Lol Shy

Well since we are talking about hypocrisy, I should be the last person to chide another poster on grammar ;-)

I love the Holidays

I love the Holidays.

Even Shawn and Shy can get along.  ;-) 

 


خال

We are supposed to abide by

We are supposed to abide by the rules of the church.  If they know you aren't it is in the rules to not give you communion as you are only supposed to receive if you are free of sin and in a state of grace.  Which is why Confession was often right before Mass.

Not so much about "fair". It

Not so much about "fair". It is considered evil by the Church to advocate, support, or carry out an abortion. It is a mortal sin so one cannot partake in Communion. Christ founded the Church in His stead and has the power to "bind & loosen" on earth via the authority given to St. Peter.

shawn, the Church is not

shawn, the Church is not supposed to be "fair."

The Church makes the rules; if you want to be a member, you follow the rules.

The politicians in question don't just "believe in" abortion. They openly support it and advocate for it as public policy and a "right."

agreed, MB

In my mind, pro-choice politicians who protect and facilitate legalized abortion are no different from someone who witnesses a murder on the street and tells the police nothing happened.

Except that the former is

Except that the former is legal conduct and the latter is criminal obstruction of justice.  So would you deny sacraments to the law abider and offer them to the lawbreaker, or deny them to both since they are "no different"?

Jer

the former is legal

precisely because of people like Patrick Kennedy.

Believe it or not, Christians don't think that morality depends on the laws crafted by a particular government. Something being legal doesn't make it right.

Do you honestly want to debate the religious implications of lying to cover up a murder? Really?

To answer your question, I'm pretty sure that if someone admitted to covering up murder, remained unrepentant, and didn't care if the priest knew, odds are they would probably be denied communion.

Do you honestly want to

Do you honestly want to debate the religious implications of lying to cover up a murder? Really?

Well, yes.  You introduced the theological argument by equating the hypotheses.  If they stand on the same ground morally, the religious implications and consequences should be identical.  Agreed?

I also assume you would have no objection to a church canvassing its members to ascertain voting records, and penalizing [denying sacraments? excommunication?]  those who may have supported pro-choice candidates.  After all, it clearly morphs a "mere belief" into "active facilitation".

Jer

ahhh the slippery slope

Ministers don't go snooping into peoples' lives to find an excuse to condemn them. They don't like denying communion. But when someone is practically shouting from the rooftops that they're all about protecting abortion, the church kinda has no choice.

Its Only Legal

Its only legal because a liberal dominated Supreme Court illegally sidestepped the legislative process to find  a statement buried in the Constitution that it perverted in order to establish a "Legal" precedent. Instead of interpreting it legislated by usurping the powers reserved for the legislative branch!

Jer

So would you deny sacraments to the law abider and offer them to the
lawbreaker, or deny them to both since they are "no different"?

Using that logic of yours, Churches should have denied communion to conductors and station keepers on The Underground Railroad back in the 1800s.  After all, they were breaking the law. 

 


خال

Free...

I've just started watching a special on HBO about the terrorist attack on Mumbai.  I'll be back here tomorrow--after I've scrounged up some leftovers and think about whether you've checkmated me or not.

Later, Jer

 

Ok, I guess that makes

Ok, I guess that makes sense. Still do not believe it is very fair, It should be up to God to judge, not a Priest.

So no one suffers any consequences for their actions?  Everyone goes along doing just what he wants until he dies and is judged by God? 

We believe that Christ gave the power to judge to His apostles, and consequently to priests when He said "Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven."

In our Baptist churches

In our Baptist churches whenever we have communion the pastor always tells us to judge ourselves in accordance with scripture if we are worthy or not to take communion.  If we are guilty of some unrepented sin then the body and blood are on our hands.

1st Corinthians 11:27-29 lays this out:

Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink [this] cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of [that] bread, and drink of [that] cup.

For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. 

"I dont need to read a newspaper to know the world's been shaved by a drunken barber."

Walter Brennan, The Colonel, Meet John Doe, 1941

Shawn

Judgement is a fine line. Ministers don't want to keep people out unfairly, but by the same token they are there to be gatekeepers of the church.

If someone showed up in church and said that they were a Christian, but Jesus never actually died and the Bible was mostly wrong, should the minister consider them church members anyway? What about those who show up in the work place and yell at people, cuss out their coworkers, cheat on their spouse, beat their children, and never bother reading their Bibles? Sure we let them attend church, but where do we draw the line? Can they sing on the worship team? Teach your children in Sunday school?

Those are the decisions a pastor has to make.

Communion isn't a game. It's not just hanging out eating little crackers. It's very important. And if believers see that communion is handed out like candy to anyone who comes in, then apparently it isn't sacred.

No one wants to judge a person's salvation, but there have to be boundaries.

Candance,

I agree that he priest is the leader of the congregation, and should deny sacraments when warranted. 

This does, however, bring up the question: is it on the Church, or the parishioner, to know whats in one's heart. If the parishioner is taking Communion while knowing his heart is not with God, does the sacrament still take? 

It seems to me that the act is hollow in this case, and thus not realised by God. 

However, the Church should not condone those that go against it's beliefs. The Bible has commanded things of us, and if not adhered to, then the Blessings of God are not given. The congregants of any Church are not their but by their own free will. This being the case, they should follow the teachings and beliefs of their Church. 

"If the man, with the power, can't keep it under control...some heads are gonna roll." -Judas Priest

Candance

You know I have the utmost respect for Christianity "albeit a scene we disagree on for V"  If Mr. Kennedy always touted his pro choice views, I do not believe it was he mentioned it at church and tried to convince members how abortion was not wrong.

He respected the church, and  was denied a wafer  and a  cup of wine because of something he never did but simply believed in. Just sounds kind of interesting to me.

C'mon Shawn

You have the "utmost respect for Christianity", but then refer to Communion as "a wafer and a cup of wine"???? Are you dense??? Or have you never set foot in a church?

I know you can do better. 

"If the man, with the power, can't keep it under control...some heads are gonna roll." -Judas Priest

Restless

I honestly do not know much about the Catholic religion. I was under the impression that wafer is the body of Christ and wine represents his blood

I thought a communion is kind of like a blessing from God. Sorry if that came out wrong.

Shawn,

So you DO know that communion is more than just "a wafer and a cup of wine". It is about what those represent. 

Could you not treat it so casually next time? 

"If the man, with the power, can't keep it under control...some heads are gonna roll." -Judas Priest

Restless

Like I said before, I know what they represent. I treated it casually because I do not agree with the decision, I certainly did not mean it come out as insulting to Catholics in anyway.

 

Not just Catholics

Christians view this sacrament as most Holy. To almost refer to it as sating hunger and catching a buzz is insulting. 

I'm kinda at a loss as to how you can disagree. Yes, final judgement is up to God, but Christianity has the right to see, call out, and avoid evil. As a matter of fact, we are commanded to do so. Abortion is evil, legal or not. 

"If the man, with the power, can't keep it under control...some heads are gonna roll." -Judas Priest

"Christians view this

"Christians view this sacrament as most Holy. To almost refer to it as sating hunger and catching a buzz is insulting."

I certainly did not mean it come out that way, especially the catching a buzz part, In the future I will try to phrase it differently.

a few points for Shawn

1) If I told you that I see no problem with beating children but I personally didn't do it, would you still think me fit to raise a family?

2) There has been a big movement among Catholic clergy to be more mindful about abortion across the board, which began in earnest back in 2003. I very much doubt that Tobin just wrote him out of the blue one day to ask him not to do communion. No bishop I've ever met had the time for that.

 

Candance

1) Well in depends on the severity on how you allow a child to be beaten. If we are talking about a spanking I find it harmless, also legally I do not have the right to stop you from having children despite your views.

2) I disagree with his decision, it should not be up to him IMO. Just remember candance, me disagreeing with his decision is different than me saying he has no right to do it.

Shawn,

1) Legally? Separation of Church and State? Y'all love it right? Why do you bring legality into this? 

2) ZZZZZZZ

"If the man, with the power, can't keep it under control...some heads are gonna roll." -Judas Priest

I  brought up legality

I  brought up legality because of her comparsion to a person that believes in beating their children. I am pointing out that I cannot stop her from having children despite her opinions and in this case my point is valid.

Also even if I proved with a reasonable doubt that candance does like to beat children and is a danger to children, that is a apples to oranges comparision because she might be a danger to her kids. Kennedy would be not be a  threat to the Church.

that wasn't my question, shawn

1) Bishop Tobin can't physically stop Kennedy from getting communion somewhere if he wants it. Tobin asked him to refrain as a matter of stating his opinion, but never told any of the acting clergy to enforce it as a rule. Likewise, I did not ask if you would stop me, I asked if you believe a facilitator of abuse could make a competent parent. Not spanking here, I'm talking abuse.

2) Do you believe (your opinion here) that a priest should then be forced to administer communion to whatever person joins the church? Priests are not there to be gatekeepers, they are there to convenience everyone else? If not, where do you draw the line?

Okay candance

I would hate be accused of dodging questions. I guess my answer would be no, I would not believe a person that believes in abuse would make a competent parent.

In this case you would a danger to your child. Kennedy does not represent a threat to the Church.

Again candance, I don't know why you asking me about the forcing priest to administer communtion, I already told you, he has the right to refuse, I just do not agree, and I don't know where to draw the line, I would leave it up to God.

some parting shots for Shawn

I brought up the parenting analogy for this point:

facilitating abuse --> responsible for the result

facilitating abortion --> responsible for the result

You cannot look at a matter of literal life and death, and say that to encourage it is not the same as doing it. Were my life being threatened, I would not be comforted knowing someone "pro death but not a killer" was shaping the laws about murder.

Kennedy presents a danger to a lot of helpless babies who have no voice. The church is supposed to exist to help the least among us.

Lastly, if your advice in all of these matters is to leave it up to God, I kindly request that you remember this discussion the next time you tell me churches are full of hypocrits. With ministers who are constantly told not to judge, not to meddle, and not to withold sacraments, it's no surprise that our churches are full of idiots who think they can do no wrong.

It's past my bedtime, so I guess we'll pick this up again at some other point. :)

facilitating abuse --> responsible for the result

"facilitating abuse --> responsible for the result "

Then your comparision is flawed. If you were a parent yourself and you believe in abuse, you would be doing a the abusing yourself or asking your spouse to. So not only would you be facilitating, you would be a direct caus of abuse.

"Lastly, if your advice in all of these matters is to leave it up to God, I kindly request that you remember this discussion the next time you tell me churches are full of hypocrits. With ministers who are constantly told not to judge, not to meddle, and not to withold sacraments, it's no surprise that our churches are full of idiots who think they can do no wrong."

Again candance, apples and oranges. I believe there are hypocrites all over the world and Churches are just one of many places. I can  call anybody a hypocrite anytime I want to because it is an opinion, receiving communion is relgious act and I do not agree with the decision not to give communion. An opinion is hardly the same thing as a religous act

 

→ Shawn

So it's perfectly acceptable for me to voice an opinion you are cat rapist?

OK, you're a cat rapist.

I think you left something out of your argument.

LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

So your the one Cool Arrow!

I was wondering why people always hid their cats and dogs too when I was visiting their neighborhood.:-)

Cool, that is slander and you would have to prove that I like to linger around the  kitty litter box longer than normal. I am not disagreeing the Preist was not withing his rights, I am simply disagreeing that Candance's comparision is fair.

→ Now you get it

You said nothing about having proof of hypocrisy.

All you said was that you had a right to give your opinion.

But to Candance's point, let's take it to its extreme, even though it could never happen.

Let's suppose a country is enamored of its charismatic leader, and his great idea to pull the country out of the economic doldrums is to persecute Jews.

In my opinion, those who acquiesced to this fictional ruler's wishes are also complicit through silent assent.

LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

Cool

I hate hypocrisy and it is something that bothers me about a person more than anything else.

So since I don't want to be accused of picking on the GOP, I will talk about liberal hypocrisy, I hate that Elliot Spitzer was very hard on prostitutes when he was in office and seeing a prostitute himself, I hate Pelosi talking about secrecy with CIA and Bush administration and not answering questions about conversations with CIA herself.

I respect the Church, I respect Christianity, In fact I respect most religions, I do not believe I am blasphemous If I disagree with a decision from the Church.

you're missing the point, Shawn

If I know that a child in my apartment building is being abused, and I make no effort to alert someone, then I share partial blame for allowing it to continue. If I see a dog in my neighbor's yard chained up and never fed, and I don't bother calling SPCA, and then that dog ends up starving to death, how could I look at my family and admit that I knew it was happening?

What of the politicians in Congress in the 1850s who didn't own any slaves but blocked legislation to set them free? Were they blameless?

And my last point was not apples to oranges. We are talking about people who call themselves members of a church without obeying the rules of that church. That's the definition of a hypocrit. You've told me in the past that churches are full of hypocrits and that was a big reason why you had a hard time attending church. Here we have a perfect example of a minister trying to challenge a hypocrit, and what do you do, you say the minister is wrong. So apparently in your world it's okay for ministers to preside over a church full of raging hypocrits - and in no way would that affect how the world sees Christianity.

You see this as an issue of a Kennedy being denied the right to communion. I see this as pressure from the world to demand that ministers pass out communion like candy. Ministers believe that communion is sacred and cannot in good conscience share it with hypocrits. So if Kennedy was truly a sensitive believer, he would respect the rules of that priest and find a more accomodating church.

Candance

Exactly. What this minister did exhibited the utmost integrity, and he was certainly not happy that he had to make this decision, but he made the right one according to him and the tenets of his religion.

 

Candance

I just want to say that I do see your POV, abortion is a very touchy topic amongst Christians and Catholics, that is why I rarely bring it up.

I believe we are all sinners and even though I disagree with the Priest decision, I respect it. I'm not sure what the big deal is.

 

OBAMA UBER ATHLETE

Did anyone else see the NFL United Way commercial with the Prince of Peace catching a pass from Drew Brees in EXCRUTIATING slow motion on the White House lawn?  I wanted to vomit.

CONGRESSIONAL TERM LIMITS!!!

Saw it,

almost upchucked.  Imagine the director trying to tape this, "ok everyone, Obama catching Drew's pass, take 147, rolling.  Nice try, Mr President, no problem, we'll photo-shop it". 

A commercial about the need

A commercial about the need for kids to exercise more and over half of it is this jackass in slow motion like he's Larry Fitzgerald. There's nothing he can't do! And he's too intellectual as Chrisy Matthews puts it.

CONGRESSIONAL TERM LIMITS!!!

Candance....

So government healthcare was an issue worthy of politically-charged sermons, but being pro-life was best kept behind closed doors.

Bingo!

 

Jim Jones

If a religious leader uses the pulpit to advance liberal politics, the media can be expected to celebrate it.

No doubt, although they'll never admit that Jim Jones' "church" one of those places that espoused social justice . . . for obvious reasons.

 

 


خال

Free Stinker

Jones' church and followers show in miniature case study in how to set up a totalitarian entity. First came pithy pious faith based social justice disguised in the trappings of religion and a church (ideology? Party?) to ensnare the gullible this particular church was always leftist in ideology. Led by a charismatic leader whose followers acknowledge as an all knowing and all wise shepherd of his people. Then the slowly unwinding to the truth of it for behind the scenes is a truly psychotic paranoid megalomaniacal individual. In any account of the cult you can see the metamorphosis where the madness is slowly unmasked but was always there for all to see. In any event a casebook and tutorial for every psychotic dictator. 

"Somehow, I told you so, just doesn't quite say it." Will Smith in 'I, Robot.'

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