Hugo Chavez Spammers Upset His Time.com 'Person of the Year' Poll Win Didn't Matter

Photo of Tim Graham.

Time magazine's website had an online poll recently to help (supposedly) determine who should take home its 'Person of the Year' designation. Radical-lefty Hugo Chavez fans are upset that they loaded up on the online poll for a victory, but the poll was not definitive. The folks at the Hands Off Venezuela blog do have this amusing take:

Interestingly, the present issue of Time carries another article called "Power to the People" (read it here), which starts by saying:

    "Meet 15 citizens-including a French rapper, a relentless reviewer and a real life lonely girl-of the new digital democracy"

In the whole magazine there are many lauding words for this "digital democracy" but ironically Time decided to ignore its own "digital democracy" and hide the fact that 35% voted for Hugo Chavez and 21% for the Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. It is true that an online poll is not a very scientific tool but surely it would have been worth to at least point out who won the Time poll in the first place? If not, what is the point of organising one on your own website?

Well, perhaps to drive traffic to your website here, in the imperalist country where sulfurous President Satan rules. But it's funny how the failure of these honors has the Hugo-heads scorning Time as a quote-unquote "liberal" magazine. Of course, they huffed that this diss happened because Hugo is just too much of an icon of democracy:

Maybe because they did not want the winner to be a popular President of a country where "power to the people" is not just an empty phrase but is being implemented in practice in the real world, and who has been democratically elected time and time again?

—Tim Graham is Director of Media Analysis at the Media Research Center


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Wasn't Saddam Democratically elected????

Wasn't Saddam Democratically elected????

"and who has been democratically elected time and time again?

I'm still laughing at this, French Rapper?

"Meet 15 citizens-including a French rapper, a relentless reviewer and a real life lonely girl-of the new digital democracy"

Well, it is clear that the French culture that keeps on giving is now taking from American culture?  I thought American didn't have a culture?

My bad.

ACA

...

Acaiguana says:  "Ya can't win if ya don't play."

democratically elected, overthrown, and restored

Yes, democratically elected time and time again, but overthrown in 2002 by the Orwellian-named National Endowment for Democracy (should be "National Endowment for Elite Dominance") with the express and documented aid of the CIA (doubt it? read the Freedom of Information releases at VenezuelaFOIA.info).  Pedro Carmona took office that day, and effectively dismissed all the constitutional structures of government. 

But the people had other plans.  Within two days, President Chávez was restored to power on the shoulders of loyal troops and adoring citizens.  The narrow layer of corrosion known as "the rich" and "the euro colonialists" failed (a rarity) to seize power, even with the full force of the CIA behind them.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!

This is one time when my sig (from Machiavelli) happily proves wrong (much to the chagrin degli Principi).

"— e sono tanto semplice li uomini "

I don't want to weep on your shallow parade here, but...

I don't want to weep on your shallow parade here, but...

Nobody cares about Venezuela.  Only the oil.  And we can live without that.

ACA

...

Acaiguana says:  "Ya can't win if ya don't play."

"35% voted for Hugo Ch

"35% voted for Hugo Chavez and 21% for the Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.."

56%!  If that's not an indictment of Time's audience, I don't know what is.

When asked if he went to war with Iraq to derail the impeachment
vote: “I don’t think any serious person would believe that any
President would do such a thing." - President Clinton (Dec 1998).

What should we expect from To

What should we expect from Tomb Magazine...besides, they're doomed, doomed...doomed...bwah, ha, ha!

Totally off the subject, but where is the media coverage of the potential diabetes cure found by that Toronto medical research team, supposedly with the involvement of Jackson Laboratories in Maine? Is it true? Is it a hoax?

Come on, MSM, here's a story that deserves some of that "investigative journalism" they taught you at Emerson College.

Oh wait, I forgot...the "feud" between Rosie and Donald is far more important.

Who cares?

"Nobody cares about Venezuela.  Only the oil."

Speak for yourselves. 

I have no doubt you care as little about the Constitution and the Magna Carta that Señor Peligro has butchered.

"— e sono tanto semplice li uomini"

So, fundamentally, we should care about another tin-horn?

So, fundamentally, we should care about another tin-horn?

Listen, bub, at the corner coffee shop on the Main Street diner, no one cares about Chavez, your silly little country or its traditional Latin American banana Republic dictator(s).

Get a life.

By the way, effite intellectualism as demonstrated by your references to various classical writers; foreign language quotes (Latin) and your rather outmoded reference to the Magna Carter, which was another Dead White Man's idea doesn't hold a drollop of water on this site.

You know, it is so easy to drape the average Latino Leftist Intellectual with 'so-what?' that I'm bored before I begin to type.  My generation invented rock-'n'-roll.  What have you done lately?

ACA

...

Acaiguana says:  "Ya can't win if ya don't play."

English as a foreign language . . .

"effite" — that's "effete"
"foreign language quotes (Latin)" — Latin was some 1200 years gone by the time Machiavelli wrote Il Principe
"Carter" — that's "Carta"
"drollop" — is that supposed to be a cross between "drop" and "dollop"?
"this site" — admittedly a desert of political understanding
"bored before I begin to type" — I would be too, if I had so little to say
"What have you done lately?" — well, I did a careful dual language study of Chávez's excellent, right-on UN speech.  It's here if you'd care for a little edification.

"— e sono tanto semplice li uomini"

My spelling and diction reflect all the respect I hold for you.

My spelling and diction reflect all the respect I hold for you.

But since you have nothing behind your indefensible attempt to defend Chavez, I have nothing to worry about.  All of my errors can be fixed by using an English rather than Spanish keyboard, but your errors would require major surgery of the brain.

But, I digress.  You aren't getting me.

So what?  Hard point to understand, I know.

Go back to your silly little country and try to do something of value.  I know its hard to be from a place that produces so many brilliant mathematicians; scientists; philosphers; and medical research giants, but if we wanted your oil, ...

we'd just take it.

ACA

...

Acaiguana says:  "Ya can't win if ya don't play."

"Go back to your silly l

"Go back to your silly little country" — I'm from Colorado

"— e sono tanto semplice li uomini"

Move.

Move.

ACA

...

Acaiguana says:  "Ya can't win if ya don't play."

Chavez murders, the left worships at his feet

Funny how that idiot idolizes Chavez, who disappears his people in the night if they dare speak up, and demonizes Bush, who lets his citizens speak up, no matter how stupid and vile they are.

DSG

"your rather outmoded re

"your rather outmoded reference to the Magna Carter" — how this quip resembles that of Alberto Torquemada — er, Gonzales's: "the Geneva Conventions are 'quaint' "; they were established to prevent another Nazi regime.  Obviously, Gonzales thinks that's not worth preventing.

"another Dead White Man's idea" — the Constitution is another one, right?

In Article II, Section 1, it prescribes the oath every president recites:

"Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

Not the flag, not marriage, not the oil wells, not the tax breaks for the richest 1% — the Constitution of the United States.  An oath that George W. Bush has broken, not only failing to defend it, but to be the first hand raised against it.  And deadheads like you guys couldn't care less.

Can you recite the six freedoms in the First Amendment?  How do you know you have any freedoms?

"— e sono tanto semplice li uomini"

First of all Mr. Spell checker, I'm not in your Civics Class.

First of all Mr. Spell checker, I'm not in your Civics Class.

And since you call everyone here a 'deadhead' I am assuming that you are so much smarter than all of us, I should just allow you to smear my President with impunity.

But of course, a history in the management of the Constitution during times of War by various Presidents for you would be a total waste of time for you since you already are an authority.  But, you generalize a lot and have no authoritative source cites to back up your assertion that George Bush has violated his oath of office.  It is your fantasy that he has not upheld the Constitution for us American Citizens rather than for the Al Qaeda Terrorists.

I assume you believe in extending the Bill of Rights to all non-Americans.

Why don't we just extend Mexican Immigration Law to all the Illegal aliens?  Throw them in jail first with no right of redress and then summarily deport them?  Sounds good to me.  In fact, let's extend Mexican naturalized citizenship law to Mexican naturalized citizens here in the US.  They cannot vote.  They cannot hold Public Office and they cannot work in government jobs.  How's that?

You come on this site with your effete (spelled it right this time, huh?) intellectual overlord attitude and expect to get over on the strength of Hugo Chavez?  Give me a break.

If Chavez was in the US he'd probably be pushing a broom somewhere.  If the citizenry of Venezuela were allowed true rights as set forth in the US Constitution (which is my Constitution by the way) they would have broken from the bondage of dependence on the State for their economic livelihood years ago.

Riddle me this?  If Venezuela has had oil for these so many years why in the world haven't they got beyond their third-world economic status and their incredible faith in the government to solve their economic problems?  What is with the former Spanish colonies anyway?  Are you still guilty until proven  innocent under the Venezuela criminal code?

When you figure out an answer to these questions let me know.

By the way, I don't care if you did a triple language study of Chavez's speech at the UN.  He's a raving lunitic.  I don't need you to explain that to me and his speech had only one point anyway.  That point was that the US is BAD and EVIL and everyone else in the world is its victim.

So what?

ACA

...

Acaiguana says:  "Ya can't win if ya don't play."

Stone Finger- I did a report

Stone Finger- I did a report on the diabetes issue on my site- might be real good news indeed- even for other autoimune diseases like arthritis, Crohn's (which I have) and others- exciting news for sure- but by golly I found very little on the matter online when the news broke about it.

http://sacredscoop.com

OOps. Huh?

OOps.  Huh?

ACA

...

Acaiguana says:  "Ya can't win if ya don't play."

That's a long list of things

That's a long list of things to answer, but I'll make a start.

"But, you generalize a lot and have no authoritative source cites to back up your assertion that George Bush has violated his oath of office."  Oh, I got'em. Jest waitin fer you t'ask.

Exhibit A: the Fourth Amendment:

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Exhibit B: the USAPATRIOT Act, Sec. 215:

"SEC. 215. ACCESS TO RECORDS AND OTHER ITEMS UNDER THE FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE SURVEILLANCE ACT.
Title V of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1861 et seq.) is amended by striking sections 501 through 503 and inserting the following:
‘‘SEC. 501. ACCESS TO CERTAIN BUSINESS RECORDS FOR FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE AND INTERNATIONAL TERRORISM INVESTIGATIONS.
‘‘(a)(1) The Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation or a designee of the Director (whose rank shall be no lower than Assistant Special Agent in Charge) may make an application for an order requiring the production of any tangible things (including books, records, papers, documents, and other items) for an investigation to protect against international terrorism or clandestine intelligence activities, provided that such investigation of a United States person is not conducted solely upon the basis of activities protected by the first amendment to the Constitution.
‘‘(2) An investigation conducted under this section shall—
‘‘(A) be conducted under guidelines approved by the Attorney General under Executive Order 12333 (or a successor order); and
‘‘(B) not be conducted of a United States person solely upon the basis of activities protected by the first amendment to the Constitution of the United States.
‘‘(b) Each application under this section
‘‘(1) shall be made to—
‘‘(A) a judge of the court established by section 103(a); or
‘‘(B) a United States Magistrate Judge under chapter 43 of title 28, United States Code, who is publicly designated by the Chief Justice of the United States to have the power to hear applications and grant orders for the production of tangible things under this section 2 on behalf of a judge of that court; and
‘‘(2) shall specify that the records concerned are sought for an authorized investigation conducted in accordance with subsection (a)(2) to protect against international terrorism or clandestine intelligence activities.
‘‘(c)(1) Upon an application made pursuant to this section, the judge shall enter an ex parte order as requested, or as modified, approving the release of records if the judge finds that the application meets the requirements of this section.
‘‘(2) An order under this subsection shall not disclose that it is issued for purposes of an investigation described in subsection (a).
‘‘(d) No person shall disclose to any other person (other than those persons necessary to produce the tangible things under this section) that the Federal Bureau of Investigation has sought or obtained tangible things under this section.
‘‘(e) A person who, in good faith, produces tangible things under an order pursuant to this section shall not be liable to any other person for such production. Such production shall not be deemed to constitute a waiver of any privilege in any other proceeding or context."

The Fourth Amendment requires probable cause be demonstrated before the judge is required to approve the snooping.  The Orwellian-named USAPATRIOT Act does away with this requirement, and says only that the application shall specify that the records are being sought!  "Why do you want these?"  "'Cause we want 'em, that's why."  "Oh, OK.  Why didn't ya say so?"

If any of your readers read thru the whole quote from the bill that I include here, they will see that it is a graft onto the FISA act, or rather, a lobotomy performed on the FISA act.  Why was the FISA act passed in the first place?  Because it became obvious, in the investigations of the Church Commission and Sam Ervin's committee in the Senate in the 1970's, that the power of the FBI was being abused by the Nixon administration to spy on political enemies, such as Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., and whistleblowers such as Daniel Ellsberg, and many more.  The excuse was that they were trying to catch foreign spies.  So FISA was written to give the government the power to get approval for wiretaps on foreign to US communications. 

But, as Gonzales complains, that is too restrictive.  They want to be able to spy on everybody without probable cause, especially their political adversaries.

During the state of alarm following 911, the USAPATRIOT Act was ramrodded thru in a week or two.  The only people in the world who could have stopped it were Patrick Leahy, Chairman of the Judiciary Committee, who could have blocked it in Committee, and Tom Daschle, Majority Leader of the Senate, who could have blocked it on the floor.  What a curious coincidence that these were the only two politicians who received anthrax in the mail, causing their offices to become contaminated and unusable (including all their papers) during the time leading to the vote.  (That and the fact that the anthrax found was highly weaponized to an extreme fineness, and the genetics of it was identical to US miltitary materials.  See Anthrax Matches Army Spores).

How like the immediate passage of the Ermächtigungsgesetz (Enablement Law) right after the burning of the Reichstagsgebäude (by Goering, as he later admitted), while the Reichstag was meeting in an opera house and threatened by glowering SA troopers swarming thru the building.

-----------------------------------

"I assume you believe in extending the Bill of Rights to all non-Americans." — Why do you assume that?  I do believe in upholding the Constitution.  And the Constitution says (Article VI):

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

The Geneva Conventions are not "quaint".  They are the Supreme Law of the Land, like all treaties we sign.  If the United States gets tired of paying interest on the overwhelming debt that Reagan and W have racked up, can we just default on the debt?  If we decide we want to be the Torture Chamber on the Hill, instead of the gleaming alabaster city, can we just default on our treaties?

-----------------------------------

"his speech had only one point anyway.  That point was that the US is BAD and EVIL" — Not so.  He makes a distinction between the people and the government.  Here's what he said:

The president then -- and this he said himself, he said: "I have come to speak directly to the populations in the Middle East, to tell them that my country wants peace."
 
That's true. If we walk in the streets of the Bronx, if we walk around New York, Washington, San Diego, in any city, San Antonio, San Francisco, and we ask individuals, the citizens of the United States, what does this country want? Does it want peace? They'll say yes.
 
But the government doesn't want peace. The government of the United States doesn't want peace. It wants to exploit its system of exploitation, of pillage, of hegemony through war.

It wants peace. But what's happening in Iraq? What happened in Lebanon? In Palestine? What's happening? What's happened over the last 100 years in Latin America and in the world? And now threatening Venezuela -- new threats against Venezuela, against Iran?

By the way, I have abundant evidence to show this president has violated the 5th, 6th, and 8th amendments as well, if you're interested.
 

"— e sono tanto semplice li uomini"

This drivel is so silly, it's hard to imagine real ideas here.

This drivel is so silly, it's hard to imagine real ideas here.

In the first place your juxtaposition of the Fourth Amendment and the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act is a non-starter.  I'm not going to debate Constitutional Law with you because all I hear from the above is your opinion of the law.  These are not authoritative sources, these are cites of the Constitution and a Law.  A court opinion interpreting the law within the bounds of the Constitution is an authorititive source.  And I might even disagree with that.

Your opinion backed up with cites from these two sources is well...

Your opinion.

Don't want to break your little heart here, but  I don't accept you as authoritative on anything, much less the Constitution.

Your continual reference to whether the Geneva Convention is 'quaint' is also silly as I never made that point nor is it germane to the topic.  Speaking of the topic, you have derailed it quite nicely.  So your Geneva Convention issue is a straw man you have erected to make some point, obscure enough to be lost on me at least.

Speaking of points, what do you really think about those French Rappers?

Your statement is:

"They want to be able to spy on everybody without probable cause, especially their political adversaries."

Naw, that was Bill and Hillary with their 800 FBI files, silly.

Check it out.  You are defending Hugo Chavez.  Ha.

Next point.

I hate to burst your little bubble but this complete clown, Chavez, thought he could separate a government from its people.  You buy into that.

News flash.  One cannot separate a government from its people when the very government is created by its people.  Particularly the government of the US.

Now he certainly has succeeded in separating his government from its people in Venezuela.  I'll go with that.

Chavez is a tin horn loser who is trying to provoke the US into some sort of food fight (and you keep talking about US 'threats' where I haven't seen that memo) for reasons that are either egocentric or domestically driven.  But at any rate he's sort of like a fly on an elephant's butt.  Looking for the same stuff as the fly, probably.

How anyone could possibly defend Chavez and hate the US as much as you appear to hate the US is beyond any understanding on my part.

Here's a hint.  On this site, we do links to long cites.  We don't cut and past the entire thread.

This dictator elected by fraud over and over again is another puff in the wind of Latin Banana Republic Politics.  QED.

By the way, this is it for me.  As I started out saying, I'm bored before I type with your drivel.

In the immortal words of Acaiguana, "So What?"

ACA

Hey Aca, nice one on the

Hey Aca, nice one on the FBI files!

I think being a terrorist or associating with terrorists or communicating with terrorists is the very definition of "probable cause".

Besides, I thought the left considered the Constitution to be a "living, breathing, document" that should be morphed into whatever the current political will of it's constituents thought it should be?

When asked if he went to war with Iraq to derail the impeachment
vote: “I don’t think any serious person would believe that any
President would do such a thing." - President Clinton (Dec 1998).

The Left thinks the Constitution is a document of convenience.

The Left thinks the Constitution is a document of convenience.

Not living or breathing, but mallable to be used at their current whim of an idea or point.  When it is convenient, the Left hammers the fine print and when not (like in the First Amendment which supposedly allows each of us the Freedom to exercise our Religion as well as preventing the government from establishing a religion) they ignore any part of the Constitution that would make them look silly.

As a disclaimer, the exact number of files Hillary's lackey actually had is still up for grabs.  Some say 400, some 600, but what the hey, it's just a number ya know?  So, I say 800.  At some future time, I may say 10,000.

Actually, they really rummaged through the FBI files at leisure since they ran the FBI and Janet Reno's Justice Department.

But, this guy is about as far out as they get.  He actually does think the government is out to get him.  Maybe they are?

Who knows.

ACA

...

Acaiguana says:  "Ya can't win if ya don't play."

I had heard it was closer t

I had heard it was closer to 1,000 files. ILLEGAL possession... But no biggie... Nixon aide Chuck Colson did time in federal prison because he was in illegal possession of ONE FBI file. But then, he was of the wrong political persuasion.

Right about Reno. She wouldn't scratch her scrotum without first getting permission from the Slick one, and would cover up her own mother's murder if Willie told her to.

And we already see ramifications of the Clintonization of the FBI with the Plame game.

When asked if he went to war with Iraq to derail the impeachment
vote: “I don’t think any serious person would believe that any
President would do such a thing." - President Clinton (Dec 1998).

I didn't point out (because it is obvious) there are 6 freedoms.

I didn't point out (because it is obvious) there are 6 freedoms.  The First Amendment prevents the Government from establishing a Religion as well as prevents the Government from intruding on your exercise of your religion (2 separate and distinct Freedoms that go together lumped as Freedom of Religion).  But the reality is that our loony friend can't even get that right.

ACA

...

Acaiguana says:  "Ya can't win if ya don't play."

"Not the flag, not mar

"Not the flag, not marriage, not the oil wells, not the tax breaks for the richest 1% — the Constitution of the United States. An oath that George W. Bush has broken, not only failing to defend it, but to be the first hand raised against it.

That would be tax cuts for everyone who PAYS taxes. Or do you not think the 5% of wage earners that pay 56% of all federal taxes are deserving of a tax cut if everyone else gets one??

And where are all these oil wells of which GWB has gained control?

And exactly how did GWB fail to defend or raise his hand against the constitution??

"Can you recite the six freedoms in the First Amendment?"

I guess since the left has perverted "freedom of religion" into "no religion in public", "freedom of the press" should also be "no press in public" and "freedom of speech" should be "no speech in public".

I assume you are equally concerned about upholding the Second Amendment?

When asked if he went to war with Iraq to derail the impeachment
vote: “I don’t think any serious person would believe that any
President would do such a thing." - President Clinton (Dec 1998).

they were established to p

they were established to prevent another Nazi regime.

BOLLOCKS

The Laws of War (the Geneva Conventions) were established to protect lawful combatants in armed conflicts.

They had zero to do with preventing another "nazi regime," any more than they had in preventing another murderous commie regime.

Is this the sort of tripe you are learning at school?

Proud member of the all-powerful and vast
militarist/industrialist/capitalist/zionist-bagelist complex

Sorry for the delay.  I just

Sorry for the delay.  I just had to crash — I'd been at it for 20 hours.  When I came back, the blog was down all night till noon.  Then I had errands.

So many questions — so little time.

---------------------------

"If Venezuela has had oil for these so many years why in the world haven't they got beyond their third-world economic status and their incredible faith in the government to solve their economic problems?" – Those who have had control of the oil all those years are doing fine, thank you very much.  The rest are only just beginning to share in the country's wealth, and they – surprise, surprise – they love it.  It is the former group who are displeased.  My, my!  You walked into that one.  Since Chávez came along, the poverty level has substantially declined, and continues to do so, not only in Venezuela but, e.g., in Argentina, where Chávez bought a big chunk of their debt, getting them out of the debt slavery that makes the NWO the rulers of the world, as John Perkins has so eloquently written in his book Confessions of an Economic Hitman.  The Simon Legree racket that the World Bank clamped onto Argentina that broke their economy, that had the grandmothers out in the plaza banging on tin pots, has been effectively put paid to.

These tyrants you (presumably?) support want to "privatize" everything that has traditionally belonged to the people in common.  Now they have begun privatizing our most precious possession: our democratic franchise.  We nor our officials are allowed to vet the software that counts our votes, because it's "proprietary".  Some fat bastard might lose money if we get the right to make sure our elections are not being stolen. Howard Dean guest-hosted "Topic A with Tina Brown", and had Bev Harris on, and demonstrated how to completely hack a Diebold tally machine.  Odd how 99% of the voting errors since 2000 give D votes to the R column and never the other way 'round.

---------------------------

"What is with the former Spanish colonies anyway?" – If you want a good answer to that question, ask the most highly decorated USMC general in history, MG Smedley Darlington Butler.  Here's a quote from a speech he gave in the 30's, as originally published in Common Sense, Vol. 4, No. 11 (November, 1935), pp. 8-12., titled "America's Armed Forces: 'In Time of Peace' "

 In the past two years large National Guard forces have seen active service in 20 strikes in as many different states, from the Pacific Coast to New England, from Minnesota to Georgia. They have used gas, bullets, and tanks -- the most lethal weapons of modern war -- against striking workers. Casualty lists have been impressive. In one instance they erected barbed wire concentration camps in Georgia to "co-ordinate" striking workers with all the efficiency of the fascist repressive technique.

There isn't a trick In the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its "finger men" (to point out enemies), its "muscle men" (to destroy enemies), its "brain guys," (to plan war preparations) and a "Big Boss," (super-nationalistic capitalism).

I Was a "Racketeer"

It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent 33 years and 4 months in active service as a member of our country's most agile military force -- the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from a second lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period I spent most of my time being a high-class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer for capitalism.

I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all members of the profession I never had an original thought until I left the service. [emph. Mine]  My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of the higher-ups. This is typical of everyone in the military service.

Thus I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers 1909-12. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 191G. I helped make Honduras "right" for American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.

During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. I was rewarded with honors, medals, promotion. Looking back on it, I feel I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three city districts. We Marines operated on three continents.

---------------------------

"(and you keep talking about US 'threats' where I haven't seen that memo)" – You must be referring to Chávez's speech – that's the only appearance of threat I see in my posts, where he says: "And now threatening Venezuela -- new threats against Venezuela, against Iran?"

Don't you remember Rummy saying "He’s a person who was elected legally — just as Adolf Hitler was elected legally."  But the same is said about Bush (wrongly because his elections were actually fraudulent).  So that's not fully a threat.  There's old Pat Robertson, who is no crazier than Bush himself that gets told by God to invade countries.  Robertson, an avid Bush supporter and founder of the politically influential right-wing religious group, the Christian Coalition, says, "You know, I don't know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it. It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war."  But he's not officially in the government.

Rather than go into rumors of planned violence thru Bush crony Uribe or other factions that are, as far as my expertise goes, only rumors, let's give HC the benefit of looking at the fact that he was overthrown for two days, and to the shock of the wealthy world, carried back into power on the shoulders of his people, as I said above, and the proof of CIA complicity is unavoidable, except by avoiding Eva Golinger's website Venezuelafoia

---------------------------

"These are not authoritative sources, these are cites of the Constitution and a Law." — So, the Constitution is not your authority, especially when it disagrees with your favorite Fascists.

------------------------------

"A court opinion interpreting the law within the bounds of the Constitution is an authorititive source.  And I might even disagree with that." — of course you will disagree with it.  It's correct, so you're bound to to vilify it.  For the record, and any sensible reader who might stumble in here, the court opinion I refer to is in the case of ACLU & al. v. NSA, US District Court for Eastern Michigan, Southern Division, Judge Anna Diggs Taylor ruling for the Plaintiffs.  One notable quote from the ruling:

"Since the Court’s 1967 decision of Katz v. U.S., 389 U.S. 347 (1967), it has been understood that the search and seizure of private telephone conversations without physical trespass required prior judicial sanction, pursuant to the Fourth Amendment. Justice Stewart there wrote for the Court that searches conducted without prior approval by a judge or magistrate were per se unreasonable, under the Fourth Amendment."

When the former NSA head, Gen. Michael Hayden, was being appointed to lead the CIA (encroachment of the military there into civilian areas, if you hadn't noticed — time for a frog in water to look at his thermometer), the twisting of the Fourth Amendment came into the picture (this text from F.A.I.R. — view the video of the exchange here)

The subject came up when reporter Jonathan Landay of Knight Ridder attempted to preface a question by stating that "the Fourth Amendment of the Constitution specifies that you must have probable cause to be able to do a search that does not violate an American's right against unlawful searches and seizures." Hayden interjected: "Actually, the Fourth Amendment actually protects all of us against unreasonable search and seizure. That's what it says." 

Landay politely corrected him, saying, "But the measure is 'probable cause,' I believe." But Hayden insisted: "The amendment says 'unreasonable search and seizure.'" When Landay continued, "But does it not say probable--" he was interrupted by Hayden, who said, "No.... The amendment says 'unreasonable search and seizure.'" 

Landay went on to ask his question, which was whether the NSA, by bypassing the special court mandated by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, had "crafted a detour around the FISA court by creating a new standard of 'reasonably believe' in place of 'probable cause.'" Hayden's response returned to the issue of the Fourth Amendment:

"I didn't craft the authorization. I am responding to a lawful order, alright? The attorney general has averred to the lawfulness of the order. Just to be very clear, okay--and, believe me, if there's any amendment to the Constitution that employees at the National Security Agency is familiar with, it's the Fourth, alright? And it is a reasonableness standard in the Fourth Amendment. So, what you've raised to me--and I'm not a lawyer, and don't want to become one--but what you've raised to me is, in terms of quoting the Fourth Amendment, is an issue of the Constitution. The constitutional standard is 'reasonable.' And we believe--I am convinced that we're lawful because what it is we're doing is reasonable."

Hayden is "convinced that we're lawful because what it is we're doing is reasonable."  But Judge Taylor has reminded the legal world that Supreme Court precedent clearly says otherwise:  Justice Potter Stewart says that search and seizure is "per se unreasonable" if it does not include a judge's warrant, and the Fourth says no warrants will issue without probable cause.

Is that clear enough?  No probably not.  The Bush Crime Family, who made their fortune financing the Hitler Administration has learned their lessons well, and they are using them to the full.  But the 06 election, which in spite of millions of votes being lost still outstripped the 94 race for reversals, proves that there is still hope for America.  Goering's diktat, that "making them afraid" is all that's needed to impose the will of the leader, in any country, seems to be losing its steam.

------------------------------

"Don't want to break your little heart here, but  I don't accept you as authoritative on anything, much less the Constitution." — The Constitution is written in plain language: you can read it for yourself.  (It's not like the Roman Church used to tell parishioners, "Oh, don't read the Bible — that's for the priests.  You just do as they say."  Jan Hus was burned at the stake for translating it into Czech, so the people could read it for themselves.)

------------------------------

"Your continual reference to whether the Geneva Convention is 'quaint' is also silly as I never made that point nor is it germane to the topic." — It is indeed germane, because Chávez's popularity here and in Latin America results from his requiring accountability of the Bush government, and not taking "no" for an answer.  No SA troops in the balcony are going to stare him into submission, nor me either.  We've had enough Fascism for one lifetime.

Jack Bauer Says: "The Laws of War (the Geneva Conventions) were established to protect lawful combatants in armed conflicts.They had zero to do with preventing another 'nazi regime,' any more than they had in preventing another murderous commie regime. Is this the sort of tripe you are learning at school?" — Ooops!  What was I thinking?  The Geneva Conventions came out of WWI.  I inadvertantly crossed them up with the Nuremberg Tribunal.  Thanks for correcting me.

I had been reading Chief Prosecutor (and later Justice) Robert Jackson's 1945 statement that "the U.S. itself will be bound in the future by the rules they are imposing on the German war criminals in Nuremberg today."  The reference was to the fact that Bush opted out of the International Criminal Court (with good reason, of course: he and Cheney and Rummy and all that gang are war criminals.)

What I should have said about the Geneva Conventions is that there are Four of them.  The Fourth, which, as it happens, was after WWII (1949) doesn't deal with "lawful combatants", Mr. Bauer, but with Civilians "during times of war in the hands of an enemy and under any occupation by a foreign power."

Civilians like the taxi drivers and students and day laborers who were fingered in Afghanistan by (well-paid) bounty hunters and sent to Guantánamo for an indefinite period without benefit of any of the legal rights of the civilized world, from which Bush has decided to secede.  The military admits that 80% of them are innocent (eventually).  But they have brown skin, so, as ACA says, "So What?"

I remember with amazement my own words some ten years ago, how "Torture used to be an everyday occurrence in European capitals only 400 years ago."  How naive I was!  Torture is an everyday occurrence today, at the hands of the people I pay taxes to support!  And the spiral down into a torture-first mentality is tightening and speeding up moment by moment.  And it's dittoheads like you that are feeding the monster.  Germane it is, sir, germane it is.

------------------------------

"Naw, that was Bill and Hillary with their 800 FBI files, silly." — Don’t be surprised if I fail to defend the Clintons.  He was miles better than Bush, but he sold the country out in NAFTA and in the Telecommunications Act.  They are both globalists.  And she is a warmonger to boot.  She scares me to death — I want no part of her.

BC was in cahoots with Poppy Bush and his old CIA cronies during Iran Contra, making sure the cocaine drops in Mena AR were safe.  See him riding around on Poppy's golf cart?  He and W are just playing good cop/bad cop, in my opinion.  Take a look at Webster Tarpley's George Bush: The Unauthorized Biography (free in ZIP format). I don't trust them at all. 

Would I pick him, even her, over Bush?  Well, duh.  But I'd be out in the streets as I am today, fighting the New World Order, telling the world not to trust them, because they're up to their eyeballs in it.  You betcha.

------------------------------

"News flash.  One cannot separate a government from its people when the very government is created by its people.  Particularly the government of the US."  — The recent election shows just how little support this government has from its people.  Bush at 29%, Cheney at 16%, editorial pages arguing over which president in history Bush might not be worse than.  You're not talking to a shut-in here, Chauncey.

------------------------------

"This dictator elected by fraud over and over again"  — you mean Bush, right?  It is now well known that if the SCOTUS had not abused its power by shutting down the ruling of the Florida Supreme Court, and all the counties had been recounted (admittedly the ones Gore asked for would not have been sufficient), Gore would be president.  Likewise, the extent of fraud by multiple means in Ohio is legendary.  The best summary of the factual ineluctable data on the matter is in Bobby Kennedy's Rolling Stone piece here

------------------------------

This exchange is bound to come to an end soon.

But I'd like to say, it's been good chatting with you gents.  And this site has as nice a blog engine as I've ever used.

"   — e sono tanto semplice li uomini"

Another tool of the sociali

Another tool of the socialisturd international spews gibberish ad nauseum. Verbal diarrhea based on garbage in and garbage out.

Clueless prick who doesn't even know the purpose of the Geneva Conventions.

Go bore someone else with ya Socialist Thievery and childish inanities, ya dumb cluck.

On a serious note your whole piece of shite is a farrago of lies, mis-truths, delusional paranoia, profound ignorance and islamo-terrorist supporting filth.

You should be ashamed of yourself, but losers like you know no shame. Maybe you're on crack. You're sure on something, and it ain't truth.

Proud member of the all-powerful and vast
militarist/industrialist/capitalist/zionist-bagelist complex

Please be specific, and write

Please be specific, and write neatly, if possible. 

I responded clearly to your one specific objection (which, as I said was a result of a hasty oversight, and for which I apologized, acknowledging my error) and I pointed out that your definition of the Geneva Conventions was a half-truth, ie., it does too cover non-"legal combatants".

Vilifying someone who has civilly disagreed with you might make a sane person think you had something to hide, and little to say, other than an unwillingness to address real issues.

 

I'm not defending Jack here, but you are definately not sane.

I'm not defending Jack here, but you are definately not sane.

You do seem to have an incredible grasp of irrelevant and trivial arcane disjointed junk history and economic theory however.

I'm not sure why you bothered to write all that stuff.

The point on this thread was Chavez supporters going bonkers because he didn't get recognized by Time as Person of the Year.

I'll just point out one slight flaw in your drape "anything in the miscellaneous tool drawer" on a conspiracy thread Christmas tree argument.

I asked:

 If Venezuela has had oil for these so many years why in the world haven't they got beyond their third-world economic status and their incredible faith in the government to solve their economic problems?

You replied:

Those who have had control of the oil all those years are doing fine, thank you very much.  The rest are only just beginning to share in the country's wealth, and they – surprise, surprise – they love it....

blah blah anti-capitalism bs, blah blah.

The issue I was addressing was in fact the Bill of Rights as invented by the evil horrible US; using Venezuela as the example of a country that has no Bill of Rights (and in fact where citizens have very few rights at all).

So, once you cut to the heart of your obfuscation of my point (s) to the nth degree (very good job there - you should try script writing); what one is left with is a baseless tirade against GWB (Bush Derangement Syndrome) and an incredible paranoic fear of a great cabal of evil capitalist world control that would work in a cheap dime novel or maybe the illuminati drivel.

And that is what you have produced.  Drivel.

Go back and read some more Dead White Guy stuff.  The 'supporters' of Chavez in the US are a total of about 3 people and they were off their medications.

But it is always fun to see one of you guys actually try to play here.

But on a serious note.

Mental Illness can be a subtle thing.  A lot of really sick folks don't even know they are ill.

The new medications are pretty good with less side effects.  Also, psychiatry has come a long way in the past 50 years.  I encourage you to run, not walk, to the nearest clinic and ask about their 'fast track' plan to sanity.

ACA

...

Acaiguana says:  "Ya can't win if ya don't play."

Well, it looks like communica

"If Venezuela has had oil for these so many years why in the world haven't they got beyond their third-world economic status and their incredible faith in the government to solve their economic problems?"

Let me put it plainer then: They haven't had Chávez all those years.  The answer is obvious: somebody got the oil money all those years, but not the people.   The Elites that backed Carmona in the coup are used to getting their way.  Now Chávez is calling the shots, redirecting the wealth of the land to the many instead of the few, and the few are outraged.

The problem is, the only answer that fits the question is off the table for you, so the question lives on.  You simply refuse to address the obvious.  What can I say, dear, after I say the simple truth?

You have no understanding of economics. None.

You have no understanding of economics.  None.

And to educate you is not worth the time or effort.  You ignore my comments about the Venezuelan economy and its colonial value system tainted by the Spanish.  You ignore my comments about their individual freedoms; you ignore my implication regarding the impact of free markets which translates into free men; you ignore my underlying ideas regarding the creation of wealth and the function of free enterprise as protected by the bill of rights.

But you're wrapped up in some sort of huge World Dominance Conspiracy idea that precludes any real understanding of how things work.  To understand economics requires math.  Math is hard.  If you start now, you might get to a point of having some foundation to learn about complex things in two to three years.

Again, by your reply above you have missed all of my points, but now of course, it is obvious that missing the point is deliberate.  I call your attention to the Wikepedia section on Conspiracy Theory.

I am citing Wikepedia because it is easily available and this particular cite summarizes the kooky issues with such theories quite nicely.

Again, I suggest you get some serious professional help.

ACA

Good luck.

<Edit>

Wikepedia has deleted the best part which is the 'features' side of such theories.  I reproduce that here.

Features

Allegations exhibiting several of the following features are candidates for classification as conspiracy theories. Confidence in such classification improves the more such features are exhibited:

  1. Initiated on the basis of limited, partial or circumstantial evidence;
    Conceived in reaction to media reports and images, as opposed to, for example, thorough knowledge of the relevant forensic evidence.
  2. Addresses an event or process that has broad historical or emotional impact;
    Seeks to interpret a phenomenon which has near-universal interest and emotional significance, a story that may thus be of some compelling interest to a wide audience.
  3. Reduces morally complex social phenomena to simple, immoral actions;
    Impersonal, institutional processes, especially errors and oversights, interpreted as malign, consciously intended and designed by immoral individuals.
  4. Personifies complex social phenomena as powerful individual conspirators;
    Related to (3) but distinct from it, deduces the existence of powerful individual conspirators from the 'impossibility' that a chain of events lacked direction by a person.
  5. Allots superhuman talents or resources to conspirators;
    May require conspirators to possess unique discipline, unrepentant resolve, advanced or unknown technology, uncommon psychological insight, historical foresight, unlimited resources, etc.
  6. Key steps in argument rely on inductive, not deductive reasoning;
    Inductive steps are mistaken to bear as much confidence as deductive ones.
  7. Appeals to 'common sense';
    Common sense steps substitute for the more robust, academically respectable methodologies available for investigating sociological and scientific phenomena.
  8. Exhibits well-established logical and methodological fallacies;
    Formal and informal logical fallacies are readily identifiable among the key steps of the argument.
  9. Is produced and circulated by 'outsiders', often anonymous, and generally lacking peer review;
    Story originates with a person who lacks any insider contact or knowledge, and enjoys popularity among persons who lack critical (especially technical) knowledge.
  10. Is upheld by persons with demonstrably false conceptions of relevant science;
    At least some of the story's believers believe it on the basis of a mistaken grasp of elementary scientific facts.
  11. Enjoys zero credibility in expert communities;
    Academics and professionals tend to ignore the story, treating it as too frivolous to invest their time and risk their personal authority in disproving.
  12. Rebuttals provided by experts are ignored or accommodated through elaborate new twists in the narrative;
    When experts do respond to the story with critical new evidence, the conspiracy is elaborated (sometimes to a spectacular degree) to discount the new evidence, often incorporating the rebuttal as a part of the conspiracy.
  13. The conspiracy is claimed to involve just about anybody;
    Conspiracy tales grow in the telling, and can swell to world-spanning proportions. As the adherents struggle to explain counter-arguments, the conspiracy grows even more (see preceding item). Conspiracy theories that have been around for a few decades typically encompass the whole world and huge portions of history.
  14. The conspiracy centers on the "usual suspects";
    Classical conspiracy theories feature people, groups or organizations that are discriminated against in the culture where the story is told. Jews and foreigners are a common target. Likewise, organizations with a bad or colorful reputation feature prominently, such as the Templars, the Nazis and just about any secret service.

ACA

...

Acaiguana says:  "Ya can't win if ya don't play."

I have a degree in Electrical

I have a degree in Electrical Engineering, and my math skills are quite good.

Figures don't lie, but liars can figure.

In the words of the great journalist I.F. Stone, "All governments lie, but disaster lies in wait for countries whose officials smoke the same hashish they give out."

But I also know that the powerful have always followed Machiavelli's line.  His advice to Princes was to lie.  My sig, in English, is  "and men are so simple, and so subject to present necessities, that he who seeks to deceive will always find someone who will allow himself to be deceived."

The next line is very telling:

"One recent example I cannot pass over in silence. [Pope] Alexander VI [Borgia] did nothing else but deceive men, nor ever thought of doing otherwise, and he always found victims; for there never was a man who had greater power in asserting, or who with greater oaths would affirm a thing, yet would observe it less; nevertheless his deceits always succeeded according to his wishes, because he well understood this side of mankind."

Conspiracies?  It's now public knowledge that the Gulf of Tonkin Incident was baited (by the nightly OPLAN 34A  raids, admittedly using RVN men for deniability, but entirely US conceived and implemented), as is clear from the tapes of LBJ and McNamara on NPR, which you'd never visit as it is "unclean", right? — and when the North Vietnamese failed to take the bait, pantomimed ("There was nothing down there but black water and American firepower" Cmdr., later Adm. James Stockdale, from his book In Love and War), and when denied by the admiral on the Ticonderoga, McNamara and LBJ went ahead with the lie anyway.

It's public knowledge that LBJ came on the phone to the admiral in the Mediterranean who was sending fighter planes to defend the NSA ship the Liberty off the coast of Israel / Egypt (right at their border-coast) as it was being torpedoed by Israeli PT boats and strafed by Israeli planes, came on the phone and said "I want that goddam ship going to the bottom."  Check out the website USS Liberty Memorial, run by survivors.  They wanted it sunk because, as a spy ship, it had proof Israel started the '67 war.

It's public knowledge (even on the CIA's own website, for crissake) that they (read: Allen Dulles) sent Kermit Roosevelt with a million bucks to overthrow Prime Minister Mohammed Mossadegh of Iran in 1953 (Time's Man Of The Year 1951) for having the temerity to ask 30% instead of the 5% that had been paid for decades by Anglo-Iranian (now BP) in a moving speech in perfect French to the UN delineating his country's abject poverty.  The Foreign office rejected his request with contempt, so he nationalized the oil.  So little had been shared in 50 years that he had to import oil workers to run the facilities — no training of nationals was allowed by London.

After that great success, the CIA was very taken with itself, overthrew Arbenz in Guatemala the following year, and it's up over 50 governments by now.  They fund themselves with drug money and arms smuggling money, some of it bought by me and you for our military, then sold to fund covert wars, as in Iran Contra (or did you sleep thru that too?)

As I am readying to post this, I see you have added some Wikepedia material for me to read.  I appreciate your position, and, though I gotta get wrapping and driving post-haste, I will DL the Wiki article to my PDA and look at it with due diligence sometime in the next 24.  One of my heroes is the Clerk in Canterbury Tales: "gladly wolde he lerne and gladly teche"

"— e sono tanto semplice li uomini"

I was disappointed when I saw

I was disappointed when I saw this list of yours.  I thought it was going to include equations (something I know quite a bit about) that would prove the proposition that the wealth of the planet is best consigned to the hands of those who are now eagerly prying the last gold tooth out of the mouth of the poor and what used to be the Middle Class. But on second look, I find it is rather an interesting tool.  Let's try it and see how well it works — Conspiracy Theories are:

  1. Initiated on the basis of limited, partial or circumstantial evidence;
    Conceived in reaction to media reports and images, as opposed to, for example, thorough knowledge of the relevant forensic evidence
    Forensic evidence at Ground Zero, under orders from Giuliani, all the steel and debris from the great crime scene carted away under armed guard to be melted down in China, or buried before the academic community at large can examine it.  Guiliani the Federal prosecutor knows better.
    FAA Managers Destroyed 9/11 Tape — Recording Contained Accounts of Communications With Hijacked Planes
  2. Addresses an event or process that has broad historical or emotional impact;
    Seeks to interpret a phenomenon which has near-universal interest and emotional significance, a story that may thus be of some compelling interest to a wide audience.
    Like a new Pearl Harbor to be used as justification for a war "without end" against an enemy known only to the Theorists, like the spots on Nick the Greek's dice: "Hey Nick!  Dese dice ain't got no spots on 'em!"  "Dat's OK — I remember where da spots are."
  3. Reduces morally complex social phenomena to simple, immoral actions;
    Impersonal, institutional processes, especially errors and oversights, interpreted as malign, consciously intended and designed by immoral individuals.
    Yer either with us, or yer with the Terrsts.  Yer either Evil, er yer Good.
  4. Personifies complex social phenomena as powerful individual conspirators;
    Related to (3) but distinct from it, deduces the existence of powerful individual conspirators from the 'impossibility' that a chain of events lacked direction by a person.
    Nineteen bearded weirdos directed by an Afghan cave dweller on dialysis penetrated the most strongly defended perimeter in the history of the world.  The trillion dollar a year Defense Establishment overthrown with box cutters.  3 of 4 Black Boxes destroyed by the intense heat while Mohammed Atta's passport flutters lightly down to the sidewalk to be discovered a week later.
  5. Allots superhuman talents or resources to conspirators;
    May require conspirators to possess unique discipline, unrepentant resolve, advanced or unknown technology, uncommon psychological insight, historical foresight, unlimited resources, etc.
    Hani Hanjour, certifiably incompetant pilot, performs a 270° spiralling descent of 5000 feet over Washington in a matter of seconds
  6. Key steps in argument rely on inductive, not deductive reasoning;
    Inductive steps are mistaken to bear as much confidence as deductive ones.
    "They hate our freedom"
  7. Appeals to 'common sense';
    Common sense steps substitute for the more robust, academically respectable methodologies available for investigating sociological and scientific phenomena.
    See 10 below
  8. Exhibits well-established logical and methodological fallacies;
    Formal and informal logical fallacies are readily identifiable among the key steps of the argument.
  9. Is produced and circulated by 'outsiders', often anonymous, and generally lacking peer review;
    Story originates with a person who lacks any insider contact or knowledge, and enjoys popularity among persons who lack critical (especially technical) knowledge.
    Testimony of such witnesses as David Schippers, lead prosecutor of the Clinton impeachment, as to the prior knowledge of the 911 event on the part of his clients who are FBI agents asking him to subpeona them so they can testify without going to jail for talking.
  10. Is upheld by persons with demonstrably false conceptions of relevant science;
    At least some of the story's believers believe it on the basis of a mistaken grasp of elementary scientific facts.
    The "pancake theory" purports to explain how the towers collapsed at virtually freefall speed, in spite of the resistence of every floor below that would have to be knocked loose.  No fractions of a second are allowed for each floor to break free.
  11. Enjoys zero credibility in expert communities;
    Academics and professionals tend to ignore the story, treating it as too frivolous to invest their time and risk their personal authority in disproving.
    Qualified academics who question the official story with hard evidence, like Steven Jones of BYU, are relieved of their tenure, driving the more timid back into silence.
  12. Rebuttals provided by experts are ignored or accommodated through elaborate new twists in the narrative;
    When experts do respond to the story with critical new evidence, the conspiracy is elaborated (sometimes to a spectacular degree) to discount the new evidence, often incorporating the rebuttal as a part of the conspiracy.Bush suggests explosions did take place, but are al Qaeda in origin."For example, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed described the design of planned attacks of buildings inside the U.S. and how operatives were directed to carry them out.  That is valuable information for those of us who have the responsibility to protect the American people. He told us the operatives had been instructed to ensure that the explosives went off at a high -- a point that was high enough to prevent people trapped above from escaping."
  13. The conspiracy is claimed to involve just about anybody;
    Conspiracy tales grow in the telling, and can swell to world-spanning proportions. As the adherents struggle to explain counter-arguments, the conspiracy grows even more (see preceding item). Conspiracy theories that have been around for a few decades typically encompass the whole world and huge portions of history."Straw-man" theories are grafted on by agents provocateurs, such as space weapons, to discredit the most solid parts of the evidence.
  14. The conspiracy centers on the "usual suspects";
    Classical conspiracy theories feature people, groups or organizations that are discriminated against in the culture where the story is told. Jews and foreigners are a common target. Likewise, organizations with a bad or colorful reputation feature prominently, such as the Templars, the Nazis and just about any secret service.Arab Terrorists are certified by name and origin within hours of an attack of which all (abundant) warnings had been ignored.  Many on that list of 19 later shown to be still alive elsewhere.  CNN posts passenger manifests of all involved flights, but no muslim names appear.

    None of the official hijackers of the Sep11th-attack appeared on the original manifest of the passenger list. Sources: cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/victims/AA11.victims.html
    cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/victims/AA77.victims.html
    cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/victims/ua175.victims.html
    cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/victims/ua93.victims.html

 

 

Thanks for eating all the cheese, mouse. You are nuts.

Thanks for eating all the cheese, mouse.  You are nuts.

Don't expect any more responses from me on this site.  Go to the forum side of the site.

That's the area we keep open for the 'crazy aunts in the attic'.

ACA

...

Acaiguana says:  "Ya can't win if ya don't play."

Thanks for the cheese — sor

Thanks for the cheese — sorry about your trap.

See ya around the quad —

"—e sono tanto semplice li uomini"

Merry Christmas!

ProudPrimate says The answer is obvious: somebody got the oil money all those years, but
not the people. The Elites that backed Carmona in the coup are used
to getting their way. Now Chávez is calling the shots, redirecting the
wealth of the land to the many instead of the few, and the few are
outraged.

I can't resist. Who owns your home, car, computer etc.? Who has access to your wealth? Who is benefiting from all these possessions and funds (only the greedy ProudPrimate, (pride goeth before the fall, by the way)) while the peoples have no home, car, computer etc.? If you are in a 3 bedroom home you could house 20 homeless people. You could drive 4 of them every day to the welfare office or the hospital in your polluting, energy consuming car, redirecting your wealth to the masses. You could give them access to the internet. Why haven't you done this you selfish person?

DSG

Your simplistic, all-or-nothi

Your simplistic, all-or-nothing burlesque of my position is something no sensible person would answer point-by-point.

I own very little, drive very little (about 50 miles a week), recycle everything that can be, use compact fluorescents, &c.  But honesty knows these are not the issue.  You think by complaining about my caged canary, you can excuse your 10,000 head hog farm that is poisoning Chesapeake Bay.  Let me give you some real examples.  The problems are not that I survive, but that the corporations pillage, and war profiteers plunder.

I have taken the trouble, just now, to type out a transcript of a portion of a talk given by Dr. Vandana Shiva, whose credentials are those of a physicist specializing in quantum mechanics, but who for a long time has been an activist in behalf of food security for the poor, especially in her home country of India.  This speech was given in San Francisco in June of 2006, and can be downloaded free from Flashpoints at this URL.  My transcript picks up at 44:33 into the download.

QUESTION FROM AUDIENCE:  Over the years, if I understand it correctly, India has evolved from a net importer or a — a country that suffered great famine, at times, to where they're now a net exporter of food as I understand it. And you don't hear about famine in India and, and that sort of thing.  To what do you attribute that, in the society? or in the culture? or —

VANDANA SHIVA:  Yeah — Well, it's not true that India was always a net importer.  India was an exporter and India was supporting the war — if you look at the maps of trade, grains used to move out of India.  The problem — the last famine we had was 1942.  And the famine took place because — as you know that was the period of the war — and the British were taking out — the rice.  And the revenues they had imposed on the peasantry were so high, that they used to take 50% of the products — produce — as revenue.  That means 50% of what a peasant grew was taken right out — of their farm.  The '42 Bengal famine had massive responses, including a brilliant women's movement, and on one of my village trips in Bengal I saw a village mural in the hall of the village, with the women standing in front of their rice, with broomsticks, y'know?  <laughter> Ultimate defense weapon, with broomsticks.  And the slogan of that movement was "Jan debod han debod nao" [sp?] — "we will give our lives but we will not give our rice".  We will not allow you to force us to give our rice away.

And that then combined, and the same year Gandhi gave the call for "quit India", y'know, tell the British to quit India, and it triggered the independence movement which we eventually got in '47, unfortunately with the combined history of the partition, because there was a divide-and-rule policy, with the British thinking that if we can pit the Muslims and the Hindus against each other, maybe we will be able to control the situation, and continue to rule — didn't work.

But that famine was created by free trade.  The right to trade above the right to food.  It led to a series of decisions, including already before independence, but many after independence, the first being reversal of the landlordism that the British had put in place to extract, y'know?  The landlords were basically revenue collectors, who would collect this half.   And that movement of the women for the rice was called tebhalla singh [sp?] "we'll give you one third" but two thirds we must keep to feed ourselves.  Ahhm — that led to a law called the Essential Commodities Act that made hoarding illegal.  Because hoarding means, traders can buy cheap, and then sell dear, and that's what leads to hunger, as Amartya Sen, who's got the Nobel Prize, in Economics, that's all — that's the main thing he said.  He said, "Hunger is about entitlement, not about how much food is around."  If you don't have the entitlement, you can have grain overflowing in your gardens [? sounds like "go downs"] and you will not be able to eat.

A third very important part of this whole piece was creating a public distribution system for the country.  Affordable food as a right of all.  Every nook and corner of India you have what are called PDS shops, Public Distribution Shops.

Today, the two crises in India that are emerging, I can predict that this winter we're going to have a famine — condition in India.  Because every law that was put in place to prevent famine is being dismantled [ in just the same way and by the same international pirates that are dismantling the US Constitution — PP.] by the Corporations.  So the laws that said, "you cannot hoard" are being changed.  And Cargill and ADM and others have bought up 90% of the wheat this season in the domestic market.  The prices of wheat have doubled in two weeks.  By the end of this year I can predict the price will be about 100 rupees a kilo and most poor people won't be able to afford it.  And because they bought up 90% there isn't enough to stock the public distribution system.  [sotto voce] Yeah.

Meantime, the imports that are enforced are also happening, so that the farmers will also lose out on the domestic market.  The Hoarding Law, the Marketing Law, th— traders could not buy below a minimum price.  Y'know, the government set a price and said, "no one can buy below this."  That is being violated.

And with the getting rid of the Hoarding Law, that means you can sell at any price you want, and you can buy as cheap as you want, we're going to get a huge crisis, and it's going to unravel very, very fast.  We could within a year create sub-Saharan conditions in India.  And that's one reason the work we do is so important.  Because by being there in the market, we are able to say, "no, wheat does not have to cost 60 rupees a kilo, it can cost 30 rupees a kilo, it can cost 20 rupees a kilo", and our presence with the direct marketing is really a measure of the real price of food.

Because y'know, we do it as a not-for-profit initiative.

India's export — becoming an exporting country's another illusion.  Four years ago in 2002, yes, we had 65 million tons of extra stocks.  But how did the 65 million tons get created?  Because the World Bank told India, "you cannot have this public distribution system run at lower than market price levels.  Remove food subsidies."  So once the price of the public distribution system grows a little, most people could not afford to buy.  And as they couldn't buy, the stocks grew.  And as the stocks grew, we were told — but this year, the stocks are lower than what is