The New York Times' "Immigrants' Families Figuring Out What to Do After Federal Raids" clearly sees illegal immigrants as sympathetic victims, putting the wet-eyed focus not on the criminal acts that resulted in the raids by immigration authorities, but how the raids have made immigrants afraid to venture out in public.
Julie Preston's Saturday story is set off with a four-day-old AP photo of a weeping mother who "held her 3-month-old son on Tuesday as her husband was held at a Swift meat plant in Greeley, Colo."
The text box advances the theme of illegal immigrants as cowering victims: "'Many people are still very frightened,' and dozens of immigrants are said to be hiding."
The actual story is no less slanted, barely brushing up against the primary reason for the raids:
"Immigrant families scrambled yesterday to find detained relatives, arrange care for children of deported parents and recover from the loss of work as a result of raids this week by immigration authorities at meat-packing plants in six states.
"The raids, part of a federal operation against identity theft, had stunning effects on the surrounding towns, residents said. In all, 1,282 legal and illegal immigrants were arrested, and in most cases the plants, all operated by Swift & Company of Greeley, Colo., were the largest employer around.
"'Many people are still very frightened,' Mayor Luis Aguilar of Cactus, Tex., said.
"In Cactus, 275 employees were arrested.
"In Worthington, Minn., with 230 arrests, residents said dozens of immigrants had gone into hiding.
"'I’ve never seen anything like it, the sadness, the emptiness, the fear,' a schoolteacher, Barbara Kremer, said. Ms. Kremer said she had provided shelter in her house since the raid for 24 immigrants who were afraid to return to their homes.
"The raids, by Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents, netted dozens of immigrants who were legal residents but did not have their papers with them at work. Others arrested were illegal who have to leave the country or face deportation."
The generally business-unfriendly Times shows a strange and sudden solicitude for a corporate executive, letting Swift CEO Sam Rovit discuss the burden the raid will put on his business:
"Mr. Rovit said Swift, third largest meatpacker in the nation, paid good wages by industry standards, twice the minimum wage, with health benefits. With tight profit margins, he added, Swift would be hard-pressed to replace the workers for work, which is demanding and has historically attracted immigrants, including immigrants without proper documents."
Take away the Times-speak, and "immigrants without proper documents" appears to translate as "illegal immigrants."
The Times doesn't talk to any victims of identity theft who may have a less sympathetic view of immigrants "without proper documents."
For more New York Times bias, visit TimesWatch.
—Clay Waters is the director of Times Watch, an MRC project tracking the New York Times.
Comments Policy
Boo Hoo Illegals
December 18, 2006 - 21:04 ET by BlondeI found this paragraph in the link to be rather interesting:
Swift began to interview its employees. About 400 left the company after the interviews, with many acknowledging that their documents were not legal, Mr. Wiseman said. He added that the immigration agency later ordered the company to stop the interviews.
Hmmm.....so raids on employers who knowingly hire illegals seem to be having the desired effect. My question, though, is if these illegals admitted to having forged documents, why were they not detained as well?
Same theme, different state
December 18, 2006 - 21:24 ET by nkviking75Here is the Des Moines Register's opus on the same theme. It was the lead story in the Sunday paper. Note: The woman in question came to the US as a 14-year-old and still does not speak English well at 37. This version is shorter than the print article.
I'm surprised that the Time
December 18, 2006 - 22:10 ET by The PresbyterI'm surprised that the Times didn't throw in "Illegals doing dirty jobs NO American
would do". What a crock.
Well, maybe they did, but I sure as hell ain't going to read the whole article.
to clay waters:
December 18, 2006 - 22:29 ET by tumbler_2007Every clock is correct twice a day; so I can't carp at the Times for the news from Swift & Co.
I realize you are, together with others here in NB, engaged in the "capture" of biased reporting in the news media. You're singling out these reports in order to expose the soft underbelly of the New York Times. If I don't congratulate you on it, it's because I truly believe they've reported it just fine. Everything they say about the culprits from the meatpacking plant is correct and appropriate.
Maybe you can show us why this is not supposed to be reported with anything except contempt for the immigrants. Or why it's so egregious in your opinion, to call them simply people who haven't the proper documents. You may feel the evil invaders ought to be referred to as undesirables and demons. You know; Green-eyed Monsters and desperate Mexican Bandits? Shame on the Times for not expressing your fevered hatred for them! I think the clock was correct on this stroke. Not because the Left is all heart, mind. Just because over there pandering is the order of the day, but this was reporting the truth.
Perhaps because they are I L
December 18, 2006 - 22:35 ET by BlondePerhaps because they are I L L E G A L immigrants. Not victims of a criminal act (getting caught) as the Times is loathe to point out. Media bias.
Illegal immigrants....and those with fake documentation....perpetrators of a further crime (over and above being here illegally, of course).
Blonde..Well said! Of cou
December 18, 2006 - 23:58 ET by ww thumperBlonde..Well said! Of course we all know that our friend tumbler don't understand the words "ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS" why they are just "undocumented workers" and "fruit pickers"!! When someone invades my house they are "CRIMINALS!!" When someone invades the United States by ILLEGALLY crossing the border and carrying fake documentation they are "CRIMINALS"!!! Not "undocumented" BS not "Fruit pickers" BS They are what they are! Criminals! I say , round them ALL up , ship their but's back to where they came from! They don't belong here! BUILD the FINCE!! .....Political correctness when dealing with Islam will kill america....ww .....
It just ain't a thread about
December 18, 2006 - 23:17 ET by Roger the ShrubberIt just ain't a thread about illegal immigration until we are graced with the predictable, tired arguments from Newsbuster's token Illegal immigration apologist.
"Shame on the Times fo
December 19, 2006 - 01:24 ET by ckc1227"Shame on the Times for not expressing your fevered hatred for them!"
Comments like this are one reason why you have no credibility on the subject.
"You may feel the evil invaders ought to be referred to as undesirables and demons."
Not at all. Illegal immigrant will do just fine.
So let me get this straight:
December 18, 2006 - 22:52 ET by MrSnugglesSo let me get this straight: the feds FINALLY do something that just might discourage illegal immigration and its a no-no? I assume then that the NYT supports open borders.
Tumbler, when a MSM outlet ru
December 18, 2006 - 23:30 ET by tracheostomyTumbler, when a MSM outlet runs video of a distraught woman making excuses for her arrested husband because he was just using the [possibly stolen] ID and SS# to work, I call that super bias.
-PJ
http://www.draftcondi.us/
dear disturbed citizens:
December 19, 2006 - 00:01 ET by tumbler_2007I'd much rather see a response from Mr. Waters, the blogger who decided he ought to denounce the Times because the Times did not carry this story to extremes, as many fine people in this site love to do. I myself have no cause to defend the Swift & Co. employees. Before you jump to that conclusion, notice I mentioned them above as culprits. I feel for every one of them, but they chose to become illegal immigrants. I'm defending (of all things!) the New York Times, for reporting things dispassionately. Clay Waters takes that for yellow journalism when it really isn't.
The axe being ground here is yours. You truly believe we ought to hate illegal immigrants. You think the sympathy I've extended means more than just sympathy. To you, illegal immigrants deserve no breaks. To you they're despicable. (I have it on Blonde's authority.)
What is Clay Water's take? Is he merely a Times basher? I applaud him for that much.
"To you they're despicab
December 19, 2006 - 01:41 ET by ckc1227"To you they're despicable. (I have it on Blonde's authority.)"
And? If lawbreakers aren't dispicable, who is?
"You truly believe we ought to hate illegal immigrants."
Proof please. Even if true, it shouldn't be surprising. Again, being a lawbreaker doesn't exactly earn you tons of warm and fuzzy points, nor should it.
no, ckc 1227
December 19, 2006 - 01:48 ET by tumbler_2007No, my friend. We are not permitted to despise anybody. Lawbreakers can be loved if we have a basic humanity. (I know that's over your head.)
Being a lawbreaker is deserving of a lawful penalty. I've made it clear enough I believe illegal immigrants must be deported. It's the law. But to see them as despicable?
WHY? Because you have got a hair up your silly ass?
/
"No, my friend. We a
December 19, 2006 - 02:24 ET by ckc1227"No, my friend. We are not permitted to despise anybody. "
No offense, but you don't get to make that call for anyone but yourself, and, yet again, is another example of why you have no credibility on this issue, and are quickly losing any you may have had on other issues.
"Lawbreakers can be loved if we have a basic humanity. (I know that's over your head.)"
On the contrary, you've proven you know very little. I never said lawbreakers can't be loved, I just don't deny that they can be despised. No rational person would. I'm pretty sure if someone I loved were murdered, there's gonna be a whole lot of despising going on. Again, my call, not yours.
"I've made it clear enough I believe illegal immigrants must be deported. It's the law. But to see them as despicable? WHY? Because you have got a hair up your silly ass?"
On the contrary, AGAIN. I never said they must be seen as despicable. Whether someone chooses to feel that way isn't up to me, or you. And if someone chooses to despise someone, criminals make good candidates.
I don't believe I have ever called here or anywhere else, illegal immigrants anything other than what they are: illegal immigrants. I have also never stated that I hate or despise them. Therefore, the "silly hair up my ass" is not relevant to the discussion. Now, if that kind of thing turns you on, there are plenty of other places on the web where you can satisfy your perversions, lol.
"I'm defending (of all t
December 19, 2006 - 02:28 ET by Indiana Joe"I'm defending (of all things!) the New York Times, for reporting things dispassionately."
No, my friend. This is NOT "dispassionate" reporting, that's the whole point here.
"'I’ve never seen anything like it, the sadness, the emptiness, the fear,' a schoolteacher, Barbara Kremer, said. Ms. Kremer said she had provided shelter in her house since the raid for 24 immigrants who were afraid to return to their homes." This is "dispassionate" reporting? Is this woman admitting to sheltering illegals? Why else would they be "afraid to return to their homes?"
"Many have children or spouses who are legal residents or Americans, and they have to decide whether the families will stay here or return to their home countries." This sounds pretty "compassionate" to me, the opposite of "dispassionate." These people made a decision to break the law. The fault that the outcome of that decision causes them pain and problems seems to rest with them, I would say.
"Mrs. Perez said immigration agents separated during the raid from her husband, Roberto Pérez García. 'They made him and myself seem like criminals,' she said. 'He tried to give me a kiss on the forehead, but they would not let us talk to each other.'" He IS a criminal. How is this "dispassionate" reporting?
Don't get me wrong. I DO feel sorry for the people and children affected by this. It is a shame. But many criminals have families who have to suffer, through no fault of their own, when a family member is caught and punished for a crime. Children who grow up without a father, because he is serving years in prison for robbery, for instance. Or many other crimes. I don't see many stories where a criminal is captured that so focus on how it affects their families.
This story was FAR from "dispassionate."
Umm, the EXTREME viewpoint is
December 19, 2006 - 04:59 ET by TexasOptimistUmm, the EXTREME viewpoint is to look at these illegal immigrants as being poor, helpless victims.
They are criminals, WILLFULLY violating not only our immigration laws but also committing the crime of identity theft.
They chose their lot when they WILLFULLY decided to ILLEGALLY enter the US and ILLEGALLY use a false identity in order to "prove" legal status.
The Reagan conservative formerly known as Texaswolf77.
I am not a Trot, that was an act.
Help me out here
December 19, 2006 - 00:09 ET by misterbill"Others arrested were illegal who have to leave the country or face deportation."
Isn't deportation making someone leave the country??????
Somebody call the Wahhmublance
December 19, 2006 - 00:48 ET by terrigI guess they can leave on their own (to sneak back with a new id tomorrow) or go as a guest of the People of the United States of America. I am so sick of these pathetic pictures of these pathetic people. Before are local trolls call me heartless let me say this; they can come, just come legally. Besides, I think we have enough welfare people who should be working in the Swift plant instead of sucking at the public trough. Not very Merry Christmas of me, boo freakin hoo.
terri - your point
December 19, 2006 - 00:55 ET by misterbillterri - your point about welfare people is right on. Since the Republican administration during Clinton's administration toughened the laws and gave them a couple of years to shape up or ship out, the welfare rolls have decreased significantly. I bet if Swift recruited in other parts of the country and offered moving and living expense assistance, they would find some American workers. Swift would be able to deduct M&L from their taxes.
Our canny neighbors to the North
December 19, 2006 - 01:15 ET by misterbillCheck this out............................Toronto Globe and Mail
"Ottawa has ruled out amnesty for the estimated 200,000 undocumented workers toiling in Canada's underground economy, saying it would not be fair to those who have applied legally and are waiting in line, according to a letter obtained by The Globe and Mail. Allowing illegal workers to stay would likely “encourage more illegal immigration,” noted Linda Arseneau of Citizenship and Immigration Canada's ministerial enquiries division in an Oct. 18 letter to the Universal Workers Union. “Even a small increase in the number who decide to come here and stay here illegally based on the hope of regularization would simply recreate... "
EEEEEEEEEEEHahhhhhhhhhhh!
CANADA???
December 19, 2006 - 01:21 ET by UnsaneThe CANADIANS??? But, but, but they are just like America, only more tolerant and big-hearted! How can they DO such a thing, those racist nativist xenophobes!!!
"Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy." -Sir Winston Churchill, British statesman (1874-1965)
Unsane -Don't judge them too harshly
December 19, 2006 - 01:24 ET by misterbillUnsane -<sarc>Don't judge them too harshly, you see most of the immigrants are from Portugal.What would Tumbler say for them????<sarc off>
Easy. He'll scream loudest
December 19, 2006 - 01:28 ET by UnsaneEasy. He'll scream loudest for those lawbreakers to get tossed from Canada as fast as possible. Hell, bring back the Concorde just for them!
(Did you know that Toronto has the highest population of those of Portuguese descent of any city in North America?)
"Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy." -Sir Winston Churchill, British statesman (1874-1965)
Believe it or not
December 19, 2006 - 01:32 ET by misterbillBelieve it or not -- my best bud (Italian) has family there and once made a comment to me about that. It went back to the deep recesses of this ancient mind and was released again under your magic reminder!
Querida mio! as my aunt used to say! (She married a Portugese man, my uncle Carlos.)
povero pazzo
December 19, 2006 - 01:43 ET by tumbler_2007Ask us if we care, Babbino absurdo.
tumblebrain whiner
December 19, 2006 - 01:53 ET by misterbillkoff
Taste the bitterness
December 19, 2006 - 02:06 ET by UnsaneWow. Someone is a little bitter this evening.
"Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy." -Sir Winston Churchill, British statesman (1874-1965)
dear terri:
December 19, 2006 - 01:34 ET by tumbler_2007I guess you're all heart. I know I've never been a troll; I'm a Christian. I'm also hispanic. I can understand the people you detest. COME LEGALLY?
I suppose you think all white anglo-saxon Americans today descend from ancestors who arrived in the New world legally.
My own Spanish ancestors had no documents. They became citizens by conquest. What about yours? And, most importantly: WHY are you sick of these pathetic pictures of such pathetic people ? ? ? Who told you these people suck at a public trough? I truly wonder how you can call yourself an American. The words you speak are incredible coming from an American. I think you're a bigot. An American given to racial bigotry. You hide behind the veneer of laws and legality.
Yes; I'm here. "Token" hispanic, giving illegal entrants into this country a token understanding from one American. I'm proud of it. Most of all approaching the feast of Our Lord's Nativity. He was not welcomed into the inns of Bethlehem, so he was born in a cave; with sheep and oxen and no home in Bethlehem. He would've seemed PATHETIC, to those who own homes in our country. The bigots. I feel sorry for you.
"tumbler_2007 Says:Dec
December 19, 2006 - 01:53 ET by ckc1227"tumbler_2007 Says:
December 19, 2006 - 01:34
I'm a Christian. I'm also hispanic. I can understand the people you detest."
Finally, the truth comes out. I suspected your wife was Hispanic, or you were an employer who depended on illegal labor. When in doubt,Occam's Razor, gotta remember that.
"I think you're a bigot. An American given to racial bigotry"
Again, this is why you have no credibility on the subject. The only folks that have an issue with race is people like you who try to make it an issue.
i always tell the truth
December 19, 2006 - 01:59 ET by tumbler_2007My wife is an American. I'm a native-born, hispanic American with no relatives south of the border. Nor do I employ any illegals, though I've worked shoulder to shoulder with them in the past. Wonderful human beings!
You may or may not be a real bigot. But you are fond of bigoted and racist rhetoric. While I'm at it; let me say:
YOU are pathetic. I wish you were normal, but NO. Pathetic; your own words convict you.
Somebody call the Wahhmublance
December 19, 2006 - 02:35 ET by terrigBoy, nice to know you have worked with the illegals and think they're swell. Well, so haven't I Troll. Problem is they can be swell till the cows come home but they need to be here LEGALLY. Talk about your bigots. If someone broke into whatever company you supposedly own, would you prosecute them? I mean, they're law breakers too. CLOWN
"You may or may not be
December 19, 2006 - 02:39 ET by ckc1227"You may or may not be a real bigot. But you are fond of bigoted and racist rhetoric."
Me being against illegal immigration doesn't make me a bigot, real or fake.
"While I'm at it; let me say: YOU are pathetic. I wish you were normal, but NO. Pathetic; your own words convict you."
Riiiiiiight. You're the one who can't distinguish between bigotry and illegal immigration, and that makes ME the pathetic one, lol.
Oh, by the way, your wish came true: I am normal.
Tiresome Tumbler,What, exactl
December 19, 2006 - 02:02 ET by BlondeTiresome Tumbler,
What, exactly, do you not understand about "come legally"?
That means waiting in line, just like the rest of the world's would-be residents of the United States of America. Not line jumping....like despicable criminals.
And speaking as a WASP (care to call me a Nazi, again?), my ancestors came to this country LEGALLY, via Ellis Island. Surely you recall seeing pictures of Ellis Island? Where people entered the country legally, and were examined to make sure they weren't carrying some sort of dread disease?
I'd imagine terri finds pictures of these sob-story, crying, lawbreaking criminals to be pathetic, inasmuch as they're making themselves out to be victims when they're busted for being criminals. I know I find that kind of reporting to be pathetic, in the extreme. Would you kindly explain how that qualifies one to be a bigot? Criminals = despicable. I'd say the same thing about an armed robber, Tumbler.
Why don't you take your racist rant elsewhere. It's boring.
blonde: I find you banal
December 19, 2006 - 02:15 ET by tumbler_2007Why must you address me with this tripe? Who cares how your ancestors arrived, did anybody ask you?
You made all the first and most blatant bigoted, racist statements on this subject. Because you're an American citizen you thought they'd slide by just fine. I opposed you, and you'll never get over it. A cry-baby returns to jab at her opponent. But in fact I told you the truth:
Whoever attacks and denigrates an ethnic group with unlicensed hatred is NO BETTER than the Nazis of 1930 Europe were. They did it to helpless, innocent Jews. Nazis felt superior to other racial groups, especially Jews. (Call me a liar.)
You do it in the case of illegal Mexican law-breakers. You demonize them because of their ethnic origin. HEY-- I FORGIVE YOU! You aren't the first or only American racist! You're just smug. Enjoy yourself, then; but you can't deny it. It's on the record here in NewsBusters.
Calling me a Nazi again, Tumb
December 19, 2006 - 02:23 ET by BlondeCalling me a Nazi again, Tumbler?
I could care less if you forgive me.
I don't demonize anyone because of their ethnic origin.
I just want immigration to be a legal, orderly thing, without a preference for a group of illegal line jumpers.
There are a bunch of Cubans off my shores, who deserve just as much compassion.....but they get repatriated because it's harder for them to bust the border. How are they any less deserving than your precious criminal Mexicans?
What about Afghanis or Pakistanis who wish to come here legally? Why should they be displaced by this line jumping bunch of criminals who are so near and dear to your heart?
Oh yes, Tumbler, I'm on the record here at News Busters.
Care to start up the flame wars again, with all of your ugly "Ugga Bugga" drunken B.S. you've posted about me? Didn't think so.
dear blonde
December 19, 2006 - 02:33 ET by tumbler_2007Get a life. I have no "precious Mexicans", and the vast majority of those living in our country legal or illegal
are honest and hard-working. They aren't criminals. Once more you lower yourself to character assassination against this defenseless ethnic minority. Just as Nazis found it easy to do in Germny, back in the 1930s --Every evil in the world traced back to one cause. -- Jews. You are the carbon copy of this hatred for "inferiors" as you perceive illegal entrants.
Deny it. Your own words are proof. I'm not denigrating any racial group or defending one. I'm only appealing for CHARITABLE thought. GRACE.
You don't know much about that, I suppose. You just heave brickbats at your demons.
Allow me to correct you. Th
December 19, 2006 - 02:49 ET by UnsaneAllow me to correct you. Those who come here legally are 100% honest and hard working and I welcome them all like brothers and sisters who wish to share in that dream called America. The ones who just cross the border wherever they damn well please can and should get tossed to wherever they came from. They may be hard-working but they broke the law the second they crossed the border illegally. (Although I wholeheartedly encourage them to get in line like everyone else and apply for legal immigration.)
Sorry, I really have no room in my heart to love people who break the law. Besides, the docs say my heart is made of obsidian, and my blood has the consistency of motor oil after 10,000 miles on the road. :-)
Here's betting your sympathies change if they were European or Asian.
"Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy." -Sir Winston Churchill, British statesman (1874-1965)
That Nazi thing, tumbler.You
December 19, 2006 - 02:59 ET by BlondeThat Nazi thing, tumbler.
You should not call me, nor equate me, to a Nazi. You have been warned.
Please, if you can, quote me (quote, Tumbler...not interpret....I am a blonde after all, and do my own interpretation) where I've ever said the illegals whom you so ardently advocate for are "inferior".
You can't do it...because I never, ever said it.
I've called them despicable criminals. Sorry, that's a fact.
Care to try for Nazi reference number four?
Blonde..Don't you have to wor
December 19, 2006 - 03:11 ET by ww thumperBlonde..Don't you have to work tomarrow? Its past midnight here and if it aint bedtime by now , it should be . We have had much too much fun picking on people tonight! :-) ww .....Political correctness when dealing with Islam will kill america....ww .....
ww,Nope....don't have to...I'
December 19, 2006 - 03:21 ET by Blondeww,
Nope....don't have to...I've been on vacation since this morning...before I put in ten hours at work! LOL.
But I am going to sleep in tomorrow, and show up for a bit dressed to the nines for the Christmas luncheon, wrap up a few things....and then do what all women do when we're a tad wrapped around the axle....shop 'til I drop!
Thanks for asking, tho. That was very sweet!
Tumbler, I have to say that t
December 19, 2006 - 16:32 ET by Darth DutchTumbler, I have to say that there is a serious flaw in your argument of equating those wishing to enforce current immigration law with the Nazis. The Nazis singled out (primarily) a race of people, the Jews, to be against. Illegal immigration is not a term that is racially nor ethnically specific. So when you get up in arms about illegal immigrants and assume they're Mexican, isn't that a bit racist of you to assume that we're refering to Mexicans only? :)
Dutch
Tumbler: I find you anal
December 19, 2006 - 02:25 ET by misterbillTumbler: I find you anal. Why must you address me with this tripe? I opposed you, and you'll never get over it. A cry-baby returns to jab at his opponent. But in fact I told you the truth.
What kind of Christain are you Senor Troll?
December 19, 2006 - 02:30 ET by terrigSo, you're the only Christian in the bunch. Wow, how exciting. I know you feel superior to me and that's fine. You can do that if it makes you feel better. Sad, little Senor Troll.
You DO know what they say abo
December 19, 2006 - 02:31 ET by UnsaneYou DO know what they say about calling people "Nazi!" in a debate, don't you?
"Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy." -Sir Winston Churchill, British statesman (1874-1965)
" Who cares how your anc
December 19, 2006 - 02:59 ET by Indiana Joe" Who cares how your ancestors arrived, did anybody ask you?"
Yes, Tumbler, YOU ASKED about "all white....Americans." In a post just above.
And SINCE you asked, mine also arrived through Ellis Island, and were naturalized....legally. Kind of a long swim from Europe.
We didn't ALL come over on the Mayflower, you know... or don't you?
Try to keep track of your own arguments. You keep contradicting yourself, and it doesn't help your credibility. Just some friendly advice, although unsolicited, I know.
SInce this was directed at my Senor Troll
December 19, 2006 - 02:29 ET by terrigYes, my ancestors did come here legally. They came from Germany & Ireland & came through ports of entry. If they would have been deemed a public nusiance, had tb or were feebleminded (as they called them in that time) they would have been sent back. Here's an example for you (since I guess you went to public school) my daughter has Down Syndrome, they would not have let us in. We would have had to make a decision-does my husband stay and send me and my daughter back or go back with us? You can call me a bigot until you're blue in the face. There are plenty of whites on welfare and when I discuss the public trough I include everyone. Yes, there are plenty of illegals who hatch their kids here who also get welfare but actually I wasn't talking about them. I was talking about the ones who sit on their asses all day and watch "The View" or "Jerry Springer" hatch child after child and do not attempt do find work. If that makes me a bigot again, well then so be it. Jerk.
BTW when my ancestors came from Ireland they were picked up right off the boats to fight for the Union Army. No question if they were going to go-they went. So, You can call me any name you want. I doubt you're a "token Hispanic" -did you get financial aid for school because you're an Hispanic? Probably did. I feel sorry for you. Why don't you take care of all the illegals? BTW, I want all illegals out of here, Irish, German, French, what have you. I want them all to come legally. But since you're hyper sensitive about your ancestory you automatically assume I'm talking about the Mexicans. Well, now you know the rest of the story.
STOP IT, YOU'LL MAKE US CRY!
December 19, 2006 - 02:43 ET by tumbler_2007Dear terri-- don't make me cry!
If I were interested in your family, I would ask you about it. Mine is only mentioned because we arrived without legal documents. You may object to the ones who lately came here that way. By all means, object! But have some empathy. Charity!
Don't fall into the net of hatred for these poor and unwelcome families who dared to break out of their poverty. Put yourself in their place before you wish them broken and kicked out. God is aware of all this! You've referred to goo human beings as PATHETIC, undeserving and vile. Think of your immortal soul.
Jesus tells us, "Whatsoever you do unto these the least of my brethren; you've done it to me".
I DON'T CARE ABOUT YOUR WIFE OR YOU EITHER
December 19, 2006 - 02:48 ET by terrigDID I SAY I CARED ABOUT YOUR FAMILY, NO BUT YOU INSIST ON TELLING US YOUR WIFE IS AN AMERICAN WELL SO AM I. SERVED IN THE MILITARY, MILITARY SPOUSE. YOU CAN CALL ME TERRIBLE ALL YOU WANT. BE CHARITABLE YOURSELF. I HAVE MY OWN CHARITIES I GIVE TO. WORRY ABOUT YOUR SOUL, I'LL WORRY ABOUT MINE.
Wow, how do I start....
December 19, 2006 - 02:54 ET by liberal_bug_zapperWow, how do I start....
Why should it matter if you are Christian or Hispanic? And to answer the last question…. Yes, COME LEGALLY!
Do you know what a Non sequitur is? People coming to this country before immigration laws were created cannot buck up an argument for people coming to this country now who do so against current law. Most of the Anglo-Saxon (not all were of Anglo-Saxon heritage, but I digress) people who came to this country many years ago came before we had immigration laws. The recent “white” people who have come (because face it, that is what you mean) all had to come through the proper channel… legally. Ever hear of Ellis Island?
What the hell are you talking about? Who’s conquest? My ancestors came and built houses on land that no one had claimed. My earliest ancestors in the United States (back when it was just the colonies) worked in cooperation with native tribes through trade.
If you don’t like laws, too bad. We live in a society governed by mutually agreed upon laws. Not everyone agrees and those who don’t, we put in jail or fine for breaking them. We’re not bigots, you’re just an idiot because you can’t win an argument without trying to label your opponent. That is one of the oldest liberal tricks in the book. Call your opponent a racist to shut him up. Pathetic.
Just for that, I’m going to join the Minuet Men and get ready to start forcing the idiot illegals out of this country. We’re going to have to take our country forcefully back from those who are not here legally. We’re going to kick your cousins back to where they belong.
We welcome people who's desire it is to come and honor our country with their presence as long as they do it within the bounds that our laws have created. You come to my country and break our laws and disrespect me.... I'll join the militias looking to force you out. You come to my country legally and show respect for my country, I'll show respect for you. This has nothing to do with color... and it's typical for a Liberal to try and win an argument in such a pathetic way.
wow, lib bug zapper
December 19, 2006 - 03:28 ET by tumbler_2007Are we paying you by the word? If you mean to express an idea, keep it within 700 or less words, can't you? Are you familiar with something called, on the www-- MEGO--?
Come back later with the abridged version and I'll give it a look. Don't feel bad, I'm a friend. Ciao!
You are friggin lazy, I don
December 19, 2006 - 04:26 ET by liberal_bug_zapperYou are friggin lazy, I don’t debate lazy people. Come back when you are not lazy.
Swift Alert
December 19, 2006 - 01:29 ET by misterbillSwift of Colorado urges you to use care when you buy their hamburg products. Four illegals are missing and were last seen in the hamburg grinding room. Hola!
I am tired and silly and going to bed, but I just had to do it!!!
So I guess that would be thei
December 19, 2006 - 02:35 ET by UnsaneSo I guess that would be their "Soylent Green" variety of meat... :-)
(No worries, my sense of humor is quite dark and demented...)
"Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy." -Sir Winston Churchill, British statesman (1874-1965)
Crimes by illegals -worth the read!
December 19, 2006 - 01:51 ET by misterbillSo you wanna give em amnesty??? So ya wanna let them stay???
http://www.alipac.us/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=29531&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight==
subset of above
December 19, 2006 - 02:04 ET by misterbillNearly one million sex crimes committed by illegal immigrants:
Offenders:
The average age of illegal immigrants who were sex offenders was 27, but they ranged in age from 16-69. Child molesters tended to be older, averaging age 32. The average age of rapists was 26, and murderers averaged age 28. There is a trend that these offenders are becoming younger. For example, in 2006, the average age of sex offender illegal immigrants was 20. The highest number came from Mexico. El Salvador was the original home to the next highest number of sexual offenders. Other countries of origin included: Brazil, China, Ecuador, Guatemala, Honduras, Jamaica, Nicaragua, Puerto Rico, Russia, and Vietnam.
But when you look into their sad eyes as they are stabbing or bludgeoning you to death, then you feel a warm Christian love for them. Oh, it is not their fault, if you read the whole article you can see it is the fault of American law enforcement for setting them free.
I won't look at your links
December 19, 2006 - 02:04 ET by tumbler_2007misterbill;
Um not interested in your links. Skip your BS.
As for amnesty. If our government cannot find a way to expel all 10-12 millions of the established illegals already here,
There will have to be an adjustment. It must happen for humane purposes, because the United States is humane and generous to the poor. Meaning there will be a new amnesty with strict conditions. (I hope you won't object, Comendattore.)
Please do not look at my links
December 19, 2006 - 02:10 ET by misterbillPlease do not look at my links, you can't handle the truth. (Gosh, I always wanted to say that.) That is why I excerpted some of the study for a person like you.
And the best way to handle deportation, is one at a time after securing the border.
Lead by example
December 19, 2006 - 02:11 ET by Unsanetumbler, I admire your spirit. Go out and lead by example by being the first among us to drain your bank accounts and be generous to the poor (just because they are "poor").
Why do you insist I be generous to the poor when the poor don't do a thing for me? Besides, I am too damn busy helping my own damn self...
"Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy." -Sir Winston Churchill, British statesman (1874-1965)
Of course you won't, tumbler.
December 19, 2006 - 02:11 ET by BlondeOf course you won't, tumbler.
You're just too obstinate to admit that you are wrong, that illegal immigrants cost this country billions of dollars, while committing crimes and taking advantage.
The bust of the Swift plant was a good start. Every journey begins with one small step. A thousand down, eleven million, nine hundred and ninety nine thousand to go.
dream on, blonde
December 19, 2006 - 02:23 ET by tumbler_2007I can't understand your vehement and mindless hope--
Your insane desire to expel a few million illegal immigrants who work in menial occupations and never interfere with you.
It has to be because you are white and superior. They are not white, and of course, we can't stand the sight of so many crude Mexicans. Even if they merely want a job at your local carwash, or in the fields outside of town. They're MEXICANS! That's the main reason you fear and detest them! That's what makes you mindless and vehement in saying, STAMP THEM OUT, get them out of my sight! You are an open book, Blondie.
Quite right, tumbler.I am an
December 19, 2006 - 02:28 ET by BlondeQuite right, tumbler.
I am an open book.
Against I L L E G A L immigration. For law enforcement. For kicking the criminals out.
For legal immigration. Without preference to nationality or preference to those who happen to have geographic advantage, and whose own government's policies foster their illegal immigration.
Period. Paragraph. End of story.
He's a bigot, thinks the only illegals are MEXICANS
December 19, 2006 - 02:40 ET by terrigWhat is amazing about Senor Troll is that he thinks the only illegals are Mexicans. It's not true, they do make up the bulk but there are plenty of others. They all need to go. But he can't see that because he's a racist himself who can only throw around words like bigot, nazi, hatemongers, etc.
"I've made it clear enou
December 19, 2006 - 02:46 ET by Indiana Joe"I've made it clear enough I believe illegal immigrants must be deported. It's the law."
YOUR words, Tumbler, from a post way up above....
"Your insane desire to expel a few million illegal immigrants who work in menial occupations and never interfere with you."
YOUR words again, Tumbler.
So, is your belief that "illegal immigrants must be deported," insane also? Or just Blonde's?
Is that because YOU assume she is "white and superior?"
THAT sounds pretty racist to me!
dear joe:
December 19, 2006 - 03:08 ET by tumbler_2007I must reply because of my respect for you. You seemed a fine American in days past, to me.
I do uphold our immigration statutes, even if I sympathize with the law-breakers. Does it confuse you?
They do as they feel they MUST do. Illegal imigrants. They come here out of dire neccesity. Not just to become Blonde's main aggravation. I understand their need. I still realize that they are responsible for theit actions. THEY realize that! I've never heard of any illegal being deported who OBJECTED to the fact. He bought the entire concept; he's here illegally. When he's caught he goes quietly; with no appeals to any ACLU, or to us.
Others like Blonde and another few; speak from disdain for these same poor immigrants. They've repeatedly expressed open hatred. I don't want to repeat to you some of Blonde's more blatant displays of bigotry. She spoke from hatred, not concern for our borders. Yet, I forgive her. She is entitled to speak her mind.
I'm also entitled. But there's a few in here who would love to strip me of my rights to speak. They make a big deal of our holy Constitutional rights. If it never contadicts their own fetish of white supremacy. I have my own freedom of speech. This is a great blogsite, allowing both sides of the story to appear publicly without fear. I'm very grateful. NOW-- if Blonde were allowed to shut me off, would she do it? Of course. She won't listen to the other side. She hates my free speech, naturally. It shows her flaws too clearly to the world.
Go ahead, repeat it tumbler.I
December 19, 2006 - 03:15 ET by BlondeGo ahead, repeat it tumbler.
In direct quotes from me, if you can!
Please, using direct quotes....you can cut and paste, can't you?
The only one whom I disdain, tumbler, is you. For your lies, your name calling (Nazi ring a bell), and for your oblique attacks.
You are too big of a coward to come straight at me. And that, tumbler is the truth, which is plain as the nose on your face, and which everyone here can see.
Cheers! ;-)
"I must reply because of
December 19, 2006 - 04:03 ET by Indiana Joe"I must reply because of my respect for you. You seemed a fine American in days past, to me."
Hmm. Kind of a back-handed compliment there, buddy. Does the use of past tense mean I DON'T now seem "a fine American" to you? For asking a pretty obvious question?
And you didn't really answer my question, did you?
It's really very simple: A desire to deport illegal immigrants is either insane, or it's not. To base that judgement on WHO holds that desire is not rational. To claim to believe illegals should be deported, while claiming another who believes the same to have an "insane desire" is an indefensible argument, to my mind. I think your interpretation of others' motives in this debate is mostly mistaken. And mainly irrelevant to my central question anyway.
It's nearly 3 AM here in my time zone, and while I don't have to work tomorrow, I do have a pretty full day planned. But if you care to enlighten me to your rationale regarding this dichotomy, I will check back tomorrow.
Good night to all.
<edit> And just btw, no, you don't "confuse" me. I've noticed that's a favored tactic of yours when someone points out an inconsistency in your arguments. I've always seen it as an attempt to denigrate that person's intelligence. It has occurred to me that it makes your SN kind of apt, as you seem to "tumble" between opposing points when convenient. You ask how "white....Americans" came to this country, then when they reply, you respond "who asked you?" You talk about your family history, then denigrate others who DO the same (see your reply to terrig's family story above). And, there is still this question of why your stated belief that illegals should be deported is somehow less "insane" than Blonde's. That's REAL "tumbling," in my book. I'm not "confused" by it at all. I sympathize with the FAMILIES affected, NOT with the criminals. Which they became when they entered this country in violation of our laws. (This edit is late [or early, take your pick: it's going on 7 AM here now] because I've had insomnia lately, and never did get to sleep. So maybe I'm getting a little less diplomatic at this point. Tending to be a little more blunt, perhaps, but still clear-headed on this topic.) <end edit>
indiana joe on a roll
December 19, 2006 - 17:22 ET by tumbler_2007I went to bed around 1AM Pacific time.
You do me a great affront. I never "denigrate" anybody; much less for communicating the relevant thing. I may CRITICIZE you, but you aren't defamed. What's more, my position is clear. I'm a conservative Republican. The only issue I have with my partisans is this illegal immigration stuff. YES, I agree with deportation. Others do it from racial bias. Not me. I'm completely impartial. I neither support nor condemn the Swift offenders because of their ethnic origin. Others here are NOT impartial. They don't much mention the identity thefts of whole rafts of email spammers and hackers. Just the relative few of a Mexican minority.
Once again I point out: this is a thread relevant to the bias of the New York Times. Not a thread about me. Not a thread about defending illegal immigration. If for my freedom of speech I am to be raked over the coals by my own partisans, and pronounced guilty of aiding and abetting lawbreakers, I gladly accept the honor. I was ONE single voice against quite a number of opposing voices. You may be innocent of racial bias, or may be guilty. Who cares? I'm here on the side of a whole generation of silent illegals whom nobody wants & nobody else here cares for. I did my part to speak for them. Not to stop others from deporting or arresting them. You dislike me for that.
Let it stay so; my conscience is clear. I also think that in this sole incident the New York Times reported everything appropriately. It didn't defend or cover up for the offenders. It didn't harm anybody and certainly didn't lie about any aspect of the investigations. Looks like a nice wrap. Thank you my friend. Carry on faithfully!
No, Tumbler, I did you no &qu
December 19, 2006 - 21:13 ET by Indiana JoeNo, Tumbler, I did you no "great affront." I have not, for example, called you a "Nazi." Nor "pathetic." Nor accused you of having "fevered hatred" for anyone. Nor accused you of "having a hair up your silly ass." Nor called you "Babbino absurdo." Nor "a bigot," nor "pathetic" again, a word only YOU have used in this thread, that I can find. Nor have I told you to "go piss up a rope." THOSE are "great affronts."
YOU asked how "all white anglo-saxon Americans" descendants arrived in America, and then say to people who respond to your question, "Who asked you?" and "Who cares how your ancestors arrived, did anybody ask you?" You accuse others of using "tripe" in THEIR arguments, yet accuse others of using words like "...PATHETIC, undeserving and vile," that THEY NEVER USED. Your charges made me go over this WHOLE THREAD repeatedly, and those words, which you ascribe to terrig, were NEVER used by her. That is just ONE example.
Now, I know from your response to another of terrig's posts that you dislike long posts, even though she was addressing points you had raised. The quotes she included from you contributed greatly to the length of that post. So, I'll try to shorten this up. I have posted several replies to you that I thought, anyway, were valid, well-reasoned, and not at all denigrating or derogatory. You responded to none except this last one. And you STILL have not really addressed the gist of it, the one question I asked you.
I don't know you well enough to "dislike" you, as you accuse me of. I merely DISAGREE with you. But from what I've seen, you tend to attack and insult those who disagree with you. And you assume that all who do so on this subject are bigots, racists, and Nazis. You raise the issue of what if the majority of illegals were Chinese. Well, what if they were? Would demanding a solution make me a "bigot" against Chinese people? What if the majority were Samoan? Or Swedes? Or Italians? Or even Canadians? You can't seem to accept the idea that it is possible to be against illegal immigration without being bigoted against the ethnicity of the illegals. And, quite frankly, it seems that it is because you share the ethnicity of the people who DO constitute the majority of the illegal immigrant problem. That may not be true, but it is certainly what comes across from your posts. You make much broader assumptions than that from others' posts.
With your attitude and attacks on those who disagree with you, YOU have made this "a thread about" YOU. And it was destined to become a thread about illegal immigration, because that was the subject of the story. You should know how these threads evolve, you've been doing this much longer than I.
As I said, I have posted several replies to points you have raised, and you answered none of them except the last one. I won't repeat them. If you go over this whole board, looking at the actual WORDS used by people, and taking them at their WORD, instead of your interpretation of their words, you will see that you have unfairly attacked many people here, drawing attacks in return. Maybe those attacks are why you became "ONE single voice against quite a number of opposing voices."
I got off fairly easy, so far. Except now you are accusing ME of racial bias, again back-handedly, without a single reason or shred of evidence from ANYTHING I have said. "You may be innocent of racial bias, or may be guilty. Who cares?" I CARE, that's "who cares." And I won't descend any further down that path. And you never D