On Saturday's NBC Nightly News, while filing a story on the "mind-boggling" bonuses going to those who are "striking it rich" on Wall Street, correspondent Mike Taibbi downplayed the strength of the current economy in comparison to the "Clinton years," and also pointed out the "struggle" of "working Americans." While Taibbi argued that his reference to the "Clinton years" was a "chronological, not political distinction," he praised that period for "lifting more boats" while finding fault in the present. Taibbi: "But to many, today's version of the haves and have-nots feels different. In the boom of the Clinton years -- and I'm talking a chronological, not a political distinction -- the rising tide of that bull market truly did lift all boats, or at least a whole lot more of them." (Transcript follows)
Before a commercial break, NBC News anchor John Seigenthaler plugged the story on Wall Street's "holiday bonuses worth more than most Americans earn in a lifetime." After introducing the story about Wall Street "handing out the kind of bonuses most Americans can only dream about," Taibbi began his report. Taibbi relayed the "mind-boggling" bonuses of some on Wall Street, and then made reference to the 1987 movie Wall Street which had taken on corporate greed and corruption.
After playing a clip of Michael Douglas' character Gordon Gekko claiming that "greed is good," Taibbi continued: "But to many, today's version of the haves and have-nots feels different. In the boom of the Clinton years -- and I'm talking a chronological, not a political distinction -- the rising tide of that bull market truly did lift all boats, or at least a whole lot more of them."
The NBC correspondent then moved on to highlight the financial plight of a finance assistant who does not get bonuses as she complained of living "paycheck to paycheck." Taibbi elaborated: "Working Americans now pay more of their pension and health care costs; and food, fuel and service costs have risen faster than most salaries. That means even those who do get small bonuses still struggle."
After showing a clip of one man saying that his bonus would go toward "putting food on the table," Taibbi provided merely one soundbite to defend large bonuses in the form of Wall Street headhunter Brian Drum who argued that "you have to have that incentive."
Below is a complete transript of the story from the December 16 NBC Nightly News:
John Seigenthaler, before commercial break: "When NBC Nightly News continues this Saturday, striking it rich on Wall Street. Holiday bonuses worth more than most Americans earn in a lifetime."
...
Seigenthaler: "NBC News 'In Depth' tonight: Holiday bonuses. Big celebrations on Wall Street this week as companies handed out the kind of bonuses most Americans can only dream about. Here's some perspective: Most U.S. businesses -- 66 percent -- give no bonuses at all. Those employees lucky enough to receive a cash gift will get an average of $837. Compare that to the bonuses Goldman-Sachs gives out, a jackpot so big they could give every employee more than $600,000. But that's nothing compared to what some are actually getting. NBC's Mike Taibbi takes you behind the numbers 'In Depth.'"
Mike Taibbi: "It's bonus week on Wall Street, and the numbers are mind-boggling. Thousands of banking, investment and hedge fund pros getting from the low to the high six figures. One company, Goldman-Sachs, paying out over $16 billion in bonuses. And one executive, Morgan Stanley's CEO John Mack, getting $40 million -- and he won't be alone in that rare air. There are a lot of other CEOs making the same jump, says CNBC business guru Jim Kramer, by simply trading paper."
Jim Kramer, CNBC: "There is very little creation of business. There's creation of profits, but for the most part these brokerage houses just shuffle from one group of people who are rich to another group of people who are richer."
Taibbi: "Those big bonuses have triggered an impulse buyers' market for high-end property and possessions like the BMWs Paul Simon sells."
Paul Simon, car dealer: "It's almost like kids in a toy store. It's great to see."
Taibbi: "So what's new? Twenty years ago Gordon Gekko, in the movie Wall Street, sounded the mantra."
Michael Douglas, as Gordon Gekko from movie Wall Street: "Greed, for lack of a better word, is good."
Taibbi: "But to many, today's version of the haves and have-nots feels different. In the boom of the Clinton years -- and I'm talking a chronological, not a political distinction -- the rising tide of that bull market truly did lift all boats, or at least a whole lot more of them."
Gloria Rodriguez, finance assistant: "It's frustrating sometimes that you work so hard and you don't get anything."
Taibbi: "Most employees, including finance assistant Gloria Rodriguez, don't get bonuses."
Rodriguez: "You live paycheck by paycheck just to pay for mortgages, gas, electric, everything. Even food. Even school for the kids."
Taibbi: "Working Americans now pay more of their pension and health care costs; and food, fuel and service costs have risen faster than most salaries. That means even those who do get small bonuses still struggle."
Unidentified man: "With my holiday bonus, I'm going to put food on the table."
Taibbi: "Still, the bonuses are a way to keep score."
Brian Drum, Wall Street Headhunter: "There's always going to be somebody trying to figure out a way to make the big bucks, and I think that's part of the system. I say you have to have that incentive."
Taibbi: "And this year, that incentive includes bonuses 10 to 15 percent bigger than last year -- at least. Mike Taibbi, NBC News, New York."
Comments Policy
Uh-huh. If the "Clint
December 16, 2006 - 23:57 ET by WolfremUh-huh. If the "Clinton" economy was better than present, then why were we in a recession by 2000?
"Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it." - George Santayana
Check your facts, the reces
December 17, 2006 - 00:49 ET by joe conservativeCheck your facts, the recession officially occur after Prez AWOL took office in 2001.
"Check your facts, th
December 17, 2006 - 01:22 ET by ckc1227"Check your facts, the recession officially occur after Prez AWOL took office in 2001. "
Check YOUR facts. Visit us again once you do. Maybe then you'll be able to tell us why it became official 3 months after GWB took office. I'll give you a little hint : It wasn't because President Bush ran the "awesomest economy ever" into a recession in 3 months.
"Unidentified man: "With my holiday bonus, I'm going to put food on the table.""
But he didn't say he HAD to use it to put food on the table. Just because someone chooses not to blow their bonus doesn't mean they are suffering.
As far as I am concerned, t
December 17, 2006 - 05:51 ET by exwyeorzeeAs far as I am concerned, the important thing to remember is that Clinton took office with the slogan, "It's the economy, stupid", because Bush Sr. and co. had already ruined it with 12 years of paranoid egotistical voodoo spookanomics and one incredibly stupid implied invitation to Saddam Hussein to go ahead and invade Kuwait:
After this unnecessary first gulf war drained the treasury, Clinton fed the dot-bomb frenzy with his Republican-lite laissez-faire economics. OK, so there was a recession starting in 2001, and it is no wonder that after eight years of sustained economic growth with a record pay-down of the debt, the momentum of the newly deregulated and de-tarriffed economic climb would eventually peter out as free and unfetterred corruption set in. The plateau it hit however was still very high compared to where it began eight years earlier.
What took us down the rathole though was Bush Jr's (in my opinion treasonous complicity in 9/11 and his resulting) unwinnable and unending war on peak oil that he started in Iraq on a pretext.
I can hear all you neocons screaming now. Go for it. Make my day.
You sound like a socialist
December 17, 2006 - 05:57 ET by Jack BauerYou sound like a typical braindead socialistard. I'm laughing, not screaming.
Proud member of the all-powerful and vast
militarist/industrialist/capitalist/zionist-bagelist complex
Anyone else hear that we didn
December 17, 2006 - 06:30 ET by ChemicalOperatorAnyone else hear that we didnt land on the moon? JFK was assassinated by government teletubbies? How about that every time a republican is elected an angel dies?
Come on guys, help me out, I feel like im leaving out some conspiracy theories.
This nation will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave.
Chemical -- it's common kno
December 17, 2006 - 06:40 ET by Jack BauerChemical -- it's common knowledge that the Clintons, and a secret cabal of powerful, evil Democrats who control the media, acamedia and Hollyweird, engineered 9/11 to make President Bush look bad.
It's just so obvious. And anyone who denies this is clearly a tool of the ruling liberal establishment.
Proud member of the all-powerful and vast
militarist/industrialist/capitalist/zionist-bagelist complex
Oh Oh I got one! Dick Chene
December 17, 2006 - 06:53 ET by ChemicalOperatorOh Oh I got one! Dick Cheney and Bush ran Ted Kennedy off the road all those years ago, making him drive into the lake. They then shot him with a drug that made him act drunk so he wouldnt be able to save the girl he killed. It was all a conspiracy to keep him from the presidency.
This nation will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave.
Exactly. Once you look into t
December 17, 2006 - 07:17 ET by Jack BauerExactly. Once you lock into this stuff, everything becomes blindingly obvious and explainable.
Proud member of the all-powerful and vast militarist/industrialist/capitalist/zionist-bagelist complex
You know being a liberal is k
December 17, 2006 - 07:22 ET by ChemicalOperatorYou know being a liberal is kind of fun. You dont need facts, your dont even need the event to be even possible. If you believe its true, it has to be.
I am not sure why we have been using this "fact based logic" for all these years, seems to be completely outdated.
This nation will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave.
Actually, being a Liberal is a miserable life.
December 17, 2006 - 08:01 ET by acaiguanaActually, being a Liberal is a miserable life.
From the time you get up and put on your Walmart shoes (which you hate, but what the hey, the price is good) to the time you get into your unlocked Prius (what's the point?) and drive in the smog filled air choked with remnants of second hand cigarette smoke; then arriving at a low paying job where your intelligence is just not appreciated having to serve the ignorant public that doesn't recycyle; to the exposure of all that right-wing crap on the media that makes fun of your ignorance and inability to articulate without spittle on your lips (shades of Chris Matthews); to the brief respite at Starbucks where at least the NYT is on sale; to the idea that some woman might accuse you of smiling at work; to the idea that some other person might be paying less of their fair share of taxes; to the concept that other people have more wealth than you (unfairly for sure because you deserve the same as everyone else); it has just got to be tough.
Especially when after all you have to be on guard for all those hidden racist, religious and prejudicial opinions that people are always abusing you over and reminding you of the outrage that you constantly live with.
Yeah, being a Liberal would be fun.
ACA
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Acaiguana says: "Ya can't win if ya don't play."
All one needs to be a liberal
December 17, 2006 - 08:03 ET by Andrew H.All one needs to be a liberal is plenty of hate.
Liberalism is a convenient lie.
All one needs to be a liber
December 17, 2006 - 16:30 ET by ckc1227All one needs to be a liberal is plenty of hate.
And self-loathing.
you description of a liberal
December 17, 2006 - 19:54 ET by CaSunshineWhat a sad man you are to spew out such remarks with so much vile and hatred. I am a proud, patriotic liberal and I do not spew out hate....after going thru stations of the radio there is enough from Rush, the Savage Nation, et al. to make one sick. You are probably the same way about blacks, Latinos, ...anyone that is not like you. You cannot see...through you black fog of prejudice. I am a liberal Grandmother...who flies the flag for 40 years., married to an ex-Naval Flier...(Did you serve..or are you another Chickenhawk?) and I am smart and try to do all I can to help others...not spend my time name-calling. How pathetic!
Csunshine.......Oh no!.... Yo
December 17, 2006 - 20:01 ET by bigtimerCsunshine.......Oh no!.... You're back!
Dang it all!
(Btw..thanks Blonde about the Chargers...my teams haven't been really lucky so far....Zags lost last night....I know this is posted on wrong place, but I think you'll get it!) got to run for awhile....
"Once the coffers of the federal government are opened to the public, there will be no shutting them again." - Grover Cleveland
It's been my experience those
December 18, 2006 - 14:57 ET by Andrew H.It's been my experience those who have a need to make a point of being smart (insert gifted, a good worker, artistic, faithful, patriotic, helpful to others) usually aren't.
Liberalism is a convenient lie.
Hey grandma, did your brain fall over itself?
December 17, 2006 - 20:04 ET by acaiguanaHey grandma, did your brain fall over itself?
...(Did you serve..or are you another Chickenhawk?) and I am smart and try to do all I can to help others...not spend my time name-calling. How pathetic!
Read this part twice. I agree with you. Its pathetic.
On the right hand you call someone a Chickenhawk; on the left hand you don't spend time name-calling?
I imagine you lead your life and teach your grandchildren how to be so cogent. And by the way,
Did you serve?
ACA
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Acaiguana says: "Ya can't win if ya don't play."
CaSunshine
December 17, 2006 - 20:04 ET by BlondeYou might want to learn how to navigate this site, and how to figure out who's who here...before you start throwing around the invectives.
You who pretend to be so smart and in the next sentence call name-calling pathetic (after implying another poster, whom you know nothing about, is a Chickenhawk).
Or a better suggestion.....CaSunshine...why don't you check out Huffpost. You'd feel smarter and more welcome there, I'm sure. Just a friendly suggestion.
Rudyard Kipling's "The Young British Soldier" and Grandma
December 17, 2006 - 20:24 ET by acaiguanaBlonde, my Grandma opinion.
Rudyard Kipling's "The Young British Soldier" and Grandma. My memory was twitched and I thought of this poem and the last verse says what I think of Grandmas and their war and their heritage to their grandchildren. Grandmothers are the reason we have thousand year grudges.
When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An' go to your Gawd like a soldier.
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
So-oldier ~of~ the Queen! ...
I normally don't do all of this, but I'll make an exception here.
The Young British Soldier, Rudyard Kipling. The poem.
When the 'arf-made recruity goes out to the East
'E acts like a babe an' 'e drinks like a beast,
An' 'e wonders because 'e is frequent deceased
Ere 'e's fit for to serve as a soldier.
Serve, serve, serve as a soldier,
Serve, serve, serve as a soldier,
Serve, serve, serve as a soldier,
So-oldier ~OF~ the Queen!
Now all you recruities what's drafted to-day,
You shut up your rag-box an' 'ark to my lay,
An' I'll sing you a soldier as far as I may:
A soldier what's fit for a soldier.
Fit, fit, fit for a soldier . . .
First mind you steer clear o' the grog-sellers' huts,
For they sell you Fixed Bay'nets that rots out your guts --
Ay, drink that 'ud eat the live steel from your butts --
An' it's bad for the young British soldier.
Bad, bad, bad for the soldier . . .
When the cholera comes -- as it will past a doubt --
Keep out of the wet and don't go on the shout,
For the sickness gets in as the liquor dies out,
An' it crumples the young British soldier.
Crum-, crum-, crumples the soldier . . .
But the worst o' your foes is the sun over'ead:
You ~must~ wear your 'elmet for all that is said:
If 'e finds you uncovered 'e'll knock you down dead,
An' you'll die like a fool of a soldier.
Fool, fool, fool of a soldier . . .
If you're cast for fatigue by a sergeant unkind,
Don't grouse like a woman nor crack on nor blind;
Be handy and civil, and then you will find
That it's beer for the young British soldier.
Beer, beer, beer for the soldier . . .
Now, if you must marry, take care she is old --
A troop-sergeant's widow's the nicest I'm told,
For beauty won't help if your rations is cold,
Nor love ain't enough for a soldier.
'Nough, 'nough, 'nough for a soldier . . .
If the wife should go wrong with a comrade, be loath
To shoot when you catch 'em -- you'll swing, on my oath! --
Make 'im take 'er and keep 'er: that's Hell for them both,
An' you're shut o' the curse of a soldier.
Curse, curse, curse of a soldier . . .
When first under fire an' you're wishful to duck,
Don't look nor take 'eed at the man that is struck,
Be thankful you're livin', and trust to your luck
And march to your front like a soldier.
Front, front, front like a soldier . . .
When 'arf of your bullets fly wide in the ditch,
Don't call your Martini a cross-eyed old bitch;
She's human as you are -- you treat her as sich,
An' she'll fight for the young British soldier.
Fight, fight, fight for the soldier . . .
When shakin' their bustles like ladies so fine,
The guns o' the enemy wheel into line,
Shoot low at the limbers an' don't mind the shine,
For noise never startles the soldier.
Start-, start-, startles the soldier . . .
If your officer's dead and the sergeants look white,
Remember it's ruin to run from a fight:
So take open order, lie down, and sit tight,
And wait for supports like a soldier.
Wait, wait, wait like a soldier . . .
When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An' go to your Gawd like a soldier.
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
So-oldier ~of~ the Queen!
So, there you have it Grandma.
ACA
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Acaiguana says: "Ya can't win if ya don't play."
Grandma, one thing is for sure...YOU never served...
December 17, 2006 - 20:53 ET by Guy Arthur ThomasI always get amused when someone related by marriage or blood drops their relative's name for being a brave vet who served while chiding others who they think didn't serve ...all the while too ignorant to the obvious fact that THEY THEMSELVES never served. Hahahahahahahahaha. From a vet (that would be me) to a non-vet, Grandma you never served so shelve that argument but I am glad you fly your flag high and are a patriot. Now if we can only get your to have enough integrity and self-respect not to call people names such as prejudice or chickenhawk while claiming to object to the practice of calling names.
If you claim to be a conservative, please don't disgrace yourself and conservatism by thinking and arguing like a liberal.
From a vet to a vet, Guy...
December 17, 2006 - 21:03 ET by acaiguanaFrom a vet to a vet, Guy...
It gets to me at times that such a self-rightous poster would derail the thread with such inane comments. And to hide behind her husband's service is worse than Michael J. Fox being immune from criticism because the poor guy is sick. When you jump into the arena you better have your eyes open and your skin armor on.
Having said that, this poster is such an iconic example of the Liberal mindset. From her lofty perch of indignation about name-calling to her self-rightous statement of 'flag waving' I don't believe anything she says, except that she is a Liberal Grandmother and you know what I think of that from the above.
ACA
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Acaiguana says: "Ya can't win if ya don't play."
No, ma'am, I'm a very happy m
December 18, 2006 - 10:56 ET by Andrew H.No, ma'am, I'm a very happy man. Who makes the assumptions? I have Latinos in my family and have dated a black. My son dated a Panamamian--with nothing but love from me. I don't know where you come off assailing me the way you do--but I know why. It is a fact, like it or not, the most hateful people we have in this country are liberals. I've seen their signs! You know, the ones like "We support the troops when they shoot their officers." You can live happily in your own dream world if you want to but many of us know what is true and not true about where most of the hate resides.
I also enlisted during the Viet Nam war in my preferred branch of service--the Marine Corps. Not that being a veteran makes one more qualified to see, read and hear hate--it does not. One visit to du or the koskids and anyone can see the strong vein of hatred--pure, unabashed hatred, madam, for everything conservative and every conservative (such as faith, independence, freedom, pro-life, and pro-private enterprise). I stand by my statements and you can go back to sleep now.
Liberalism is a convenient lie.
"Oh Oh I got one! Dic
December 17, 2006 - 16:29 ET by ckc1227"Oh Oh I got one! Dick Cheney and Bush ran Ted Kennedy off the road all those years ago, making him drive into the lake. They then shot him with a drug that made him act drunk so he wouldnt be able to save the girl he killed. It was all a conspiracy to keep him from the presidency."
I thought they did it so they could trick Teddy into helping get "No Child Left Behind" passed?
The economic growth rate was
December 18, 2006 - 01:40 ET by mattmThe economic growth rate was at 4.2% and rising when Clinton took office. It was 3.8% and falling when he left office. It's growing again and has been since the Bush tax cuts took effect.
I suspect the Kuwaitis didn't
December 17, 2006 - 07:46 ET by Andrew H.I suspect the Kuwaitis didn't think the war was unneccesary. There's nothing wrong with America being a force for good in the world. And there's much to do. Freedom means a better place for human beings in this world.
Liberalism is a convenient lie.
How do I forget? The entire
December 17, 2006 - 01:33 ET by UnsaneHow do I forget? The entire world has been burning in the hottest region of Hell since 1200 EST on 20 January 2001. During the eight years previous, we had the most perfect and wonderful human being EVER in the White House, a man who LOVED us so DEEPLY and INTENSELY that he did hundreds of nonillions of GREAT THINGS for us every single hour of every single day. He personally FED, CLOTHED and SHELTERED every single American and tucked every single one into bed every single night.
The reason we are burning in Hell right now is because of The Big Meanie currently in the White House. If Mr. Greatthings were still there, the world would know no poverty, war, or any plague. But because of that damned 22nd Amendment, and us hoi polloi not appreciating what was good for us, we chose and got stuck with The Big Meanie.
joe "conservative", just how many times a day do you bow to Washington praying for government to coddle and babysit you again?
"Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy." -Sir Winston Churchill, British statesman (1874-1965)
In the Clinton years, we had
December 17, 2006 - 04:58 ET by joe conservativeIn the Clinton years, we had a dwindling lower class, an increasing middle class, and EVEN an increasing upper class. Everyone got more wealthy.
That's a damn lie. We did h
December 17, 2006 - 07:09 ET by Andrew H.That's a damn lie. We did have a Republican congress that kept him in check thank God. Otherwise we would have been taxed to death. Every time the government confiscates more income, the economy suffers, fool.
Liberalism is a convenient lie.
The computerization of Amer
December 17, 2006 - 07:32 ET by Red JeepThe computerization of America is what caused the good economy despite what Clinton did. As another writer wrote, Windows 95 +98 happened. Clinton was just along for the ride, taking credit for nothing he did and getting his monicas.
How dare you not put Clinton
December 17, 2006 - 07:36 ET by ChemicalOperatorHow dare you not put Clinton as the best president in history. Rabble rabble rabble <liberal talking point insert here> Rabble Rabble Rabbe Republicans framed the clintons for Whitewater Rabble Rabble
Did I miss anything liberals? I think im getting the knack of this.
This nation will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave.
Yeah, you'd make a good troll if you were just a bit more dumb.
December 17, 2006 - 07:41 ET by acaiguanaYeah, you'd make a good troll if you were just a bit more dumb.
I like your class object outline here for the programming module.
ACA
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Acaiguana says: "Ya can't win if ya don't play."
Ya I had to stop pretending t
December 17, 2006 - 19:43 ET by ChemicalOperatorYa I had to stop pretending to be a liberal. I was beginning to feel dirty.
This nation will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave.
You weren't a very good Liberal, anyway.
December 17, 2006 - 19:58 ET by acaiguanaYou weren't a very good Liberal, anyway.
A) You made too much sense and B) No Liberal could outline a Class Object Module with as few words as you did for us geeks.
ACA
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Acaiguana says: "Ya can't win if ya don't play."
Wow! SUCH class envy. Per
December 17, 2006 - 14:08 ET by UnsaneWow! SUCH class envy. Perhaps you need to change your name to 'joe socialist". So I take it that your deepest desire is to personally exterminate all Rich Leeches who DARE to make as much as a penny more a year than you? Perhaps string them up from telephone poles and hang signs around their necks announcing to one and all the crimes they committed: "PROFIT MAKER", "ECONOMIC WRECKER AND TRAITOR", and so forth?
Do me a favor, joe. Instead of plotting how best to steal from people the wealth you have ZERO claim to, and begging government to do to others what you lack the guts to do (commit armed robbery), why don't you invest your energies into actually participating in this economy...the greatest ever on earth?
"Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy." -Sir Winston Churchill, British statesman (1874-1965)
Class Envy
December 17, 2006 - 14:14 ET by BlondeUnsane,
You are asking far too much of poor little joe "conservative".
All he's capable of is drive-by posting and whining.
Actual work would probably kill him.
Troll Alert!!
December 17, 2006 - 01:46 ET by ww thumperCheck your facts, the rece
December 17, 2006 - 21:27 ET by liberal_bug_zapperCheck your facts, the recession officially occur after Prez AWOL took office in 2001.
Well Joe, it seems that you, like most liberals, are in need of an economics education. And I don't mean you need an advanced degree to understand economics, you just need to do a little homework and read up on how the economy works.
First lesson: The Economic engine in the US moves at a very slow rate. What people who have no clue about the economy perceive as fast changes were put in motion years before they become apparent. The good economy in the Clinton years were due to Reagan's policies, not Bush Sr. Clinton and the Democrats had little to do with the good economy in the 1990s as the Democrats in the Congress only lasted two years of Clinton's presidency. But what is more, the economic pressures of the 90s had little to do with government action. This was a boom driven by a new technology, hence the name "Dot Com boom". The biggest problem with Clinton and, dare I say, the Republicans, was the oversight, or the lack thereof, of the Dot Com voodoo economy. Reganomics or trickledown economics, or the Laffer curve, works. Drop taxes and people invest in new business.... more money begins to flow and soon, full employment is reached. Once full employment is reached, wages go up... for everyone... and not by idiotic mandate by some government body.
Ditch diggers, dish washers, counter clerks etc... who are unskilled and educated little don’t' deserve good wages. They deserve what we give them and nothing more. They are plebes. They are idiots. They are retards. Just like Joe Conservative and all the other Liberals here. If you want a higher wage... become skilled. These jobs and these positions are meant for those just entering the workforce. They’re not expected to be what you do for your whole life. So build up your worth.... make yourself irreplaceable. But for Christ’s sake, shut the hell up and quit complaining about the minimum wage, or how little the poor earn. People earn what they are worth... and if you earn 2.85 per hour.... you aren't worth much. If you don't work to improve yourself, you are a worthless POS and don't deserve higher pay. Put down the PS3 and the Ho Hos and go out and get some education.... and I'm not talking a Liberal Arts education.... because if you get one of those, you might as well be a fungus for all the good it will do you or the country.
Practical Econ 101
December 17, 2006 - 21:35 ET by Blondel_b_z,
Real World Econ 101. Holy Smokes, Batman (a term I reserve for my boss, when he's particularly brilliant)! That was perfect.
I think even a liberal pretender may be able to understand it, there, fella.
You should think about patenting that.
I really enjoyed it. Thanks!
Laughing. ;-)
Thanks Blonde...It just bur
December 17, 2006 - 22:22 ET by liberal_bug_zapperThanks Blonde...
It just burns me up when people complain about an economy based on the earning power of idiots. No one wants an idiot to do anything except dig a ditch or mow a lawn. And for the most part, that should be done by those just entering the workforce as it requires no ability other than being healthy.
When I was in high school, unlike my fellow students, I woke up at 3:30 am and went to milk the cows, then, after I milked the cows, I cleaned the manure out of the barn and the barnyard and after that... the farmer's wife fed all the farm hands..... huge plates of bacon, ham, eggs, hash browns and toast all washed down with warm, cream-laden milk. Then, I went to school. After school got out at 3:30pm, I was back on the farm turning the freshly cut alfalfa or bailing hay or repairing or replacing fences or any other work the farmer could think of for me. Did that until 6:30 when we ate dinner. I was paid minimum wage. I was 16. I didn't deserve any more than minimum wage as I had no skills other than I was a strapping young guy who could do a lot of manual labor.
Then, after graduation, I lucked out and got a job at a cement plant as a pre-cast worker.... that means I was the guy making septic tanks, well tiles (the concrete tubes you put down in the earth to create a well), anchors, curbs, center dividers, parking stops and even some more delicate work like fountains. I worked about 10 hours a day, 6 days a week and yes, I did make overtime and yes, my earnings were triple that of the minimum wage, but I couldn't even think after the end of each day and it was all I could do to drag myself home and shower before collapsing into my bed (or a couch if I didn't make it that far) at around 9pm. Did that for a year while I studied to get into the fire academy.After that year, I then joined the fire department (went to the academy as well as got my EMT cert).
Now I'm saying all this because each job I took raised my wage and increased my level of earning capacity. I became skilled and continued to improve myself. So I can say this next comment with some authority.
If you are older than 25 years old and you can't earn more than the minimum wage... you are either really retarded or you are a lazy POS and you make me sick.
I am now a designer of computers in Asia. I speak fluent Mandarin and have an advanced degree in computer science.... all done while I was working. I didn't get student loans (lily white back in early 90s precluded me from a lot of perks), and I certainly didn't get any grants or scholarships. I now earn a six figure income and it's because I worked my ass off.... I didn't sit around whining and complaining about how I was entitled or how the rich were cheating. I worked hard and long to be where I am.
Our economy does well because of people like me... not the retards that Congress and the President keep calling the backbone of America.... what a crock.
l_b_z,Not to sound like a bro
December 17, 2006 - 22:34 ET by Blondel_b_z,
Not to sound like a broken record or anything....but, you need to patent that post as well.
It is the n'est-plus-ultra put down for all the minimum wage whiners. Absolutely perfect.
Wishing you and your family a Merry Christmas from West to East, and further success in all that you do.
Edit: I think you just out-Unsaned Unsane, too.
Thanks again.... notice how
December 18, 2006 - 01:07 ET by liberal_bug_zapperThanks again.... notice how no Lib will take up the challenge of a good argument? They are much like hyenas which look for a weakness or a perceived mistake and harp on that until the entire focus has changed to defending something that didn't even happen..... e.g. crshedd and his/her obsession for the 100,000 remark.
He/she isn't even the least bit disgusted at the Davis/Bacon extortion racket that drives up the cost of everything.
He also won't argue that people working within a free market system generally get paid what they're worth if government does not interfere (with the exception of protecting children from predatory labor practices and slave labor). He won't argue the fact that if the horse and buggy is no longer being used, than the buggy whip makers should not be able to keep their jobs. He will not argue that ditch diggers are entry level positions and that even paying them 10 dollars an hour is an insult to the very nature of the free market (unless they're in high demand and low supply, which is where you see wages go up.)
No, crshedd won't argue those points because he/she would lose.
l_b_z
December 18, 2006 - 01:27 ET by BlondeYes, well....crshedd didn't even try to make any salient points whatsoever.....he (and he claims to be one) fell back on the old liberal ruse of "show me"...and then of course trying to twist the argument. And then whining....typical.
I'd bet you've read Milton Friedman, yes?
I've enjoyed your posts...l_b_z....but it's getting to be seriously o-dark thirty on my side of the world. Outa here soon.
Sweet dreams and MERRY CHRI
December 18, 2006 - 02:00 ET by liberal_bug_zapperSweet dreams and MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!! (bold and big just for all you Libs out there).
I wonder if a Lexus search wo
December 17, 2006 - 00:11 ET by tracheostomyI wonder if a Lexus search would hit all the times that the MSM ever used that Michael Douglas quote above.
I've never seen the movie Wall Street, but it seems like I see that clip on TV at least twice a year ever since the movie came out.
Seriously.
-PJ
http://www.draftcondi.us/
A suggestion for Mike
December 17, 2006 - 00:13 ET by nkviking75Hey Mike, if you really wanted to make a distinction between chronological and political eras, why not substitute "The 90's" for "The Clinton Years"?
You're welcome.
NBC - National Broadcasters for Clinton
December 17, 2006 - 00:14 ET by Free StinkerNY Post last week: Goldman Sachs gave out $16 Billion in bonuses this year. Companies aren't pumping there stocks up through fraud (Enron, MCI-Worldcom, Adelphia) and the DJI is at it's all time high.
This, 5/6 years after the dot-com bust, all the fraud from the Clinton era was discovered, and the country is in the middle of a war.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"One thing that seperates liberals from conservatives is that liberals are craftier and work without the hinderance of a conscience." --Lynn Wooley
"In the boom of the Cl
December 17, 2006 - 01:32 ET by ckc1227"In the boom of the Clinton years -- and I'm talking a chronological, not a political distinction -- the rising tide of that bull market truly did lift all boats, or at least a whole lot more of them."
And as a result, more boats sank as the water rose because they were built with faulty material.
Prez AWOL saw the immense su
December 17, 2006 - 05:00 ET by joe conservativePrez AWOL saw the immense surplus in the US Treasury. With Bush allowing 9/11 to happen opened the doors for their 'clean break'...allowed an excuse for no bid contracts...and allowed an easy funnel of our US treasury dollars right into the pockets of those who can afford stock in any of the Bush Co's favorite corporations.
Funny, where is the proof of
December 17, 2006 - 07:18 ET by ChemicalOperatorFunny, where is the proof of this? Accuse all you want, but without FACTS I am just going to assume your chewing on your tin foil hat again.
This nation will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave.
Hey, joe, are you real?
December 17, 2006 - 07:24 ET by acaiguanaHey, joe conservative, are you real?
Your concept of the economy, how it works and who does or does not benefit and how the wealth was distributed under Clinton and now under Bush is so archiac that I wonder if you don't live in England under Charles Dickens.
Memo to you: Wealth is not finite.
Second memo: The 'little guy' and the 'working stiff' aren't the backbone of American economics anymore.
The little guy is a totally uneducated gang kid or citizen produced out of our Liberal Public School system who thinks illegible scrawls of paint on walls is literature. He/She thinks the world revolves around a gun, drugs and gang rapes with willing participating 'chicks' who tattoo themselves with blue Bic pen ink. The greatest award any one of them can receive is a 20 year sentence in a state prison.
The working stiff is making Davis/Bacon prevailing wages on a fat government earmarked contract project upwards of $50 an hour (that's $100K a year for those of you in Rio Linda). The people benefitting from this largess from your wallet through the corrupt political government are the Union leaders, the illegals hired by sub-contractors and the local government Democrat Political Machine in the Inner Cities. The workmanship is often shoddy and certainly inefficient and no one has a stake in the result except often the poor taxpayer who has to drive through the pot holed detours of the new 'bridge' project.
The Dot Com binge was a whole cloth fantasy that created much less wealth than was reported similar to the fact that 10,000 people didn't die in New Orleans and 675,000 people haven't died in Iraq. But what the hey, if it sounds good, class envy and resentment of capitalists is good for politcs, huh?
Take Enron for example. The press reported that it was criminally sad that all of their employees would lose their pensions. Well, their pensions consisted of valueless stock issued by their paper company that produced and added no real value to the economic engine. This fantasy value was no more worth what the News reported it to be than all of the dreams of the nerds working the Dot Com thin air idea that setting up a web site somewhere selling poetry over the ether was going to skyrocket them into the multi-millionaire category of super rich tycoons. And I have no sympathy for them.
And anyone with a smattering of common sense and understanding of economics knew all of this before the crash.
Just as the herd mentality thinks the price of oil can never come down, the price of houses always goes up and pigs can fly.
So, one of the results of the horrible schools in the US is not only the inability to read diplomas but also to understand what wealth is, how it is created under capitalism and how to count.
So, the assumptive basis for your assertions is so whacked out that I can barely restrain my amazement at the ignorance behind their existence. But I digress. How can you write this drivel with a straight face?
ACA
...
Acaiguana says: "Ya can't win if ya don't play."
Good luck, Acaiguana--but hav
December 17, 2006 - 07:29 ET by Andrew H.Good luck, Acaiguana--but have never seen this poster open to facts or truth. He's not interested in learning; he's an example of a liberal blogger who have his mind made up for him by other soicalists and then repeats little cliches and phrases--nothing of substance, nothing of value, nothing true... I suspect he's a troll on a misison from du or the koskids.
Liberalism is a convenient lie.
Sand and rat holes.
December 17, 2006 - 07:37 ET by acaiguanaSand and rat holes.
I have stopped most of my activity here because it is like the dike and Hans' finger. Ran out of fingers.
ACA
...
Acaiguana says: "Ya can't win if ya don't play."
"I have stopped most o
December 17, 2006 - 16:36 ET by ckc1227"I have stopped most of my activity here because it is like the dike and Hans' finger. Ran out of fingers"
What does rosie have to do with this?
Yeah, I know. I misspelled it too in the original. My bad.
December 17, 2006 - 16:39 ET by acaiguanaYeah, I know. I misspelled it too in the original. My bad.
...
Acaiguana says: "Ya can't win if ya don't play."
Rosie's role
December 17, 2006 - 16:41 ET by dagdaGiven that Rosie's s/o is the one having the kid, I would think it would Rosie's fingers, not Han's.
Our real problem, then, is not our strength today; it is rather the vital necessity of action today to ensure our strength tomorrow. Dwight Eisenhower
Eeeewwwww.
December 17, 2006 - 16:50 ET by BlondeEeeewwwww.
The working stiff makes $100,
December 17, 2006 - 14:07 ET by crsheddThe working stiff makes $100,000 per year?
The median income in this country is $43,389. Your numbers just don't work.
http://www.answers.c...
A working stiff is a service worker (wiat staff, cashier, etc) or blue collar worker (manual laborer). Not very many of these people make $50 an hour. Hell, wait staff make $2.35 an hour plus tips. I am willing to bet they don't get $47.65 an hour in tips.
so, crshedd, I take it you wa
December 17, 2006 - 14:12 ET by Unsaneso, crshedd, I take it you want to exterminate every single Leech that makes above median income? If anything else, it makes them easier to steal from.
I do not center my life focusing on what other people make. Besides, I know in due course, I'll be making $100K or more a year. And then I will walk around with a big fat target symbol on my back, placed there by people like you who can't go out and make that themselves but want to steal it anyway via the government.
"Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy." -Sir Winston Churchill, British statesman (1874-1965)
Read the post I responded to,
December 17, 2006 - 14:16 ET by crsheddRead the post I responded to, In. The writer was throwing around figures as facts, and I had to call him on that. But, don't bother your little head with facts. They can get confusing.
Oh yeah, crshedd.Facts. Lik
December 17, 2006 - 14:19 ET by BlondeOh yeah, crshedd.
Facts. Like the fact that ACA was referring to a mandated wage for a government project that equated to approximately $100K per year on an annualized basis.
Inconvenient little facts like that, hmmm...
Careful who you call out.....
For someone with all those supposed advanced degrees, I've got some problems with you, your reasoning, and your writing ability.
crshedd wouldn't know a fact if it walked up and bit him.
December 17, 2006 - 16:36 ET by acaiguanacrshedd wouldn't know a fact if it walked up and bit him.
And anyone who has ever read my posts know I just hate numbers as if they were 'facts'. Those pesky numbers. It's OK for Liberals to throw out numbers as if they were 'facts'. Witness Mr. Teddy Kennedy citing 34 million hungry in America. That's OK because it is completely insulting to everything American.
But if a Conservative points out a number as if it were relevant to a discussion (and it wasn't presented as a 'fact' but used as an example) then that makes it OK to say, I'm just attacking the throwing out of numbers as if they were facts.
I am quite familiar with all 9 numbers and zero. We've become old friends. I just have to say to crshedd this....
(comes with a picture)
"At the far right are several large areas of activity in numerical linear algebra and related topics, typically, the study of individual matrices or transformations between (large-dimensional) real vector spaces. Numerical linear algebra per se (e.g. the determination of fast methods of solving thousands of simultaneous linear equations, the stability of eigenvalue calculations, applications to finite-element methods, sparse matrix techniques) are parts of 65: Numerical Analysis, particularly 65F: Numerical linear algebra. Here we include several fields of inquiry into the underlying linear systems and their applications. In this category we might include 15A06: Linear equations, 15A09: Matrix inversion and generalized inverses, 15A18: Eigenvalues and singular values, 15A23: Factorization of matrices (SVD, LU, QR, etc.), 15A12: Conditioning of matrices, as well as applications to physics (15A90), Control Theory (93) and Statistics (62) such as what is there known as Principal Component Analysis. Related topics include those of importance in 90: Operations Research (especially linear programming) such as 15A48: Positive matrices, 15A39: Linear inequalities, and 15A45: Miscellaneous matrix inequalities.
The circles in shades of red in the lower part of the graph show connections with other fields of algebra. Furthest down is 15A72: Invariant theory and tensor algebra, which crosses to the study of invariants in Group Theory (20) and in polynomial rings (13: Commutative Algebra and 14: Algebraic Geometry). Certain sets of matrices form well-known groups, particularly the Lie groups (22) and algebraic groups. Closer to the center of the picture are connections with Number Theory (10 and 11), especially 15A63: Quadratic forms. There are several connections with ring theory (16: Noncommutative Rings, 17: Nonassociative Rings, 19: Algebraic K-Theory); indeed many of the key examples of such rings involve collections of matrices, including the full matrix rings and Lie rings, and rings of matrices are used for representing groups and general rings. Related disciplines within Linear Algebra include 15A27: Commutativity, 15A30: Algebraic systems of matrices, 15A33: Matrices over special rings (including 12: Fields), 15A36: Matrices of integers, 15A75: Grassmann algebras, and 15A78: Other algebras. Tensor products in linear algebra (15A69) mirror such constructs in other algebraic categories.
Nearby are several fields in discrete mathematics, including the use of matrices for the representation of combinatorical objects such as graphs (05: Combinatorics), extremal matrices, permanents (15A15), and applications to 68:Computer Science, 94: Information Theory (e.g. linear codes), and 39: Difference equations.
In the upper left are the papers in "geometric algebra", including 15A66 (Clifford algebras), 81 (Quantum theory), 53 (Differential Geometry), and 58 (Analysis on manifolds).
In the upper right are the topics appropriate for 60: Probability and 62: Statistics, including 15A51: Stochastic matrices and 15A52: Random matrices, and applications to statistical mechanics (82) and the sciences (92).
Linear maps of geometric interest are considered in the geometry pages (51, 52). For example, rotation matrices and affine changes of coordinates come under 51F15. Sets of matrices qua sets arise geometrically as well; for example certain families of matrices form manifolds, and even topological groups (22).
Subfields
There is only one division (15A) but it is subdivided:
15A03: Vector spaces, linear dependence, rank
15A04: Linear transformations, semilinear transformations
15A06: Linear equations
15A09: Matrix inversion, generalized inverses
15A12: Conditioning of matrices, See also 65F35
15A15: Determinants, permanents, other special matrix functions, See also 19B10, 19B14
15A18: Eigenvalues, singular values, and eigenvectors
15A21: Canonical forms, reductions, classification
15A22: Matrix pencils, See also 47A56
15A23: Factorization of matrices
15A24: Matrix equations and identities
15A27: Commutativity
15A29: Inverse problems [new in 2000]
15A30: Algebraic systems of matrices, See also 16S50, 20Gxx, 20Hxx
15A33: Matrices over special rings (quaternions, finite fields, etc.)
15A36: Matrices of integers, See also 11C20
15A39: Linear inequalities
15A42: Inequalities involving eigenvalues and eigenvectors
15A45: Miscellaneous inequalities involving matrices
15A48: Positive matrices and their generalizations; cones of matrices
15A51: Stochastic matrices
15A52: Random matrices
15A54: Matrices over function rings in one or more variables
15A57: Other types of matrices (Hermitian, skew-Hermitian, etc.)
15A60: Norms of matrices, numerical range, applications of functional analysis to matrix theory, See also 65F35, 65J05
15A63: Quadratic and bilinear forms, inner products See mainly 11Exx
15A66: Clifford algebras, spinors
15A69: Multilinear algebra, tensor products
15A72: Vector and tensor algebra, theory of invariants, See Also 13A50, 14D25
15A75: Exterior algebra, Grassmann algebras
15A78: Other algebras built from modules
15A90: Applications of matrix theory to physics
15A99: Miscellaneous topics
Browse all (old) classifications for this area at the AMS."
...
Acaiguana says: "Ya can't win if ya don't play."
Okay, ACA,I know that picture
December 17, 2006 - 16:47 ET by BlondeOkay, ACA,
I know that picture!
And I know you, and numbers, too. And you & numbers, come to think of it.
crshedd is a fakir, of the worst sort. Notice how there is just great chirping of crickets once the error of his ways have been pointed out.
Too nice to worry about trolls.
BTW...beautiful Bertram '38 just went by. Something to think about, in terms of numbers. ;-)
Yeah, inconvenient little fac
December 17, 2006 - 19:11 ET by crsheddYeah, inconvenient little facts.
Was aca referring to working stiffs or government contractors. Totally different. That reinforces my argument. His numbers do not match up with WORKING STIFFS.
Now if he were talking about government contractors I would agree with him. However, that contractor is not going to be paying his ditchdigger, framer, roofer, etc, $100,000 per year. But that is what you are saying, that ANYONE who is involved under a government contract makes $100,000 per year. Maybe you should be careful who you call out...
So, what was he talking about? Working stiffs or government contractors? Government contracts require contractors to pay the 'prevailing wage'. How many ditchdiggers, framers, bus drivers or any other 'working stiff' makes $50 per hour? I know auto repair places charge that much, but does the mechanic see that much? According to aca's working stiff definition, the mechanic gets all of that. Hard to believe, especially if the owner has to pay for ANY overhead at all.
Totally Inconvenient Facts - crshedd
December 17, 2006 - 19:38 ET by Blondecrshedd,
For someone with supposed multiple advanced degrees, you are surely dense.
Did you even read what ACA or I posted? For content? Didn't think so.
What you got out of it was.....directly quoting you with my take on this.... ANYONE who is involved under a government contract makes $100,000 per year. Which I clearly didn't say, nor did I even remotely imply it.
So, I'm not too worried about calling you out.....silly, reading impaired man. Why don't you try enrolling in High School Reading 101 (to go along with all of your advanced degrees), and try again.
BTW....if you wish to know what ACA's exact meaning was, why don't you ask him? He might be a little kinder to you than I, but then again, maybe not.
Quoting you directly: 'Fact
December 18, 2006 - 00:06 ET by crsheddQuoting you directly:
'Fact. Like the fact that ACA was referring to a mandated wage for a government project equated to approximately $100K per year on an annualized basis.'
So, working stiffs (as ACA calls them) make $100K per year (on an annualized basis). That is what I said you said. I said I didn't think that the working stiff made that much, even on government contracts. Please show me a citation that says I am wrong. I asked ACA but have not heard from him. I have posted a couple sites showing that working stiffs do not make that much. The government requires workers be paid the prevailing wage. Now in some areas, evidently in Cook County according to dmntd1, $100K could be close to the prevailing wage. But, all government contracts are not in Cook County.