On Saturday's NBC Nightly News, while filing a story on the "mind-boggling" bonuses going to those who are "striking it rich" on Wall Street, correspondent Mike Taibbi downplayed the strength of the current economy in comparison to the "Clinton years," and also pointed out the "struggle" of "working Americans." While Taibbi argued that his reference to the "Clinton years" was a "chronological, not political distinction," he praised that period for "lifting more boats" while finding fault in the present. Taibbi: "But to many, today's version of the haves and have-nots feels different. In the boom of the Clinton years -- and I'm talking a chronological, not a political distinction -- the rising tide of that bull market truly did lift all boats, or at least a whole lot more of them." (Transcript follows)
Before a commercial break, NBC News anchor John Seigenthaler plugged the story on Wall Street's "holiday bonuses worth more than most Americans earn in a lifetime." After introducing the story about Wall Street "handing out the kind of bonuses most Americans can only dream about," Taibbi began his report. Taibbi relayed the "mind-boggling" bonuses of some on Wall Street, and then made reference to the 1987 movie Wall Street which had taken on corporate greed and corruption.
After playing a clip of Michael Douglas' character Gordon Gekko claiming that "greed is good," Taibbi continued: "But to many, today's version of the haves and have-nots feels different. In the boom of the Clinton years -- and I'm talking a chronological, not a political distinction -- the rising tide of that bull market truly did lift all boats, or at least a whole lot more of them."
The NBC correspondent then moved on to highlight the financial plight of a finance assistant who does not get bonuses as she complained of living "paycheck to paycheck." Taibbi elaborated: "Working Americans now pay more of their pension and health care costs; and food, fuel and service costs have risen faster than most salaries. That means even those who do get small bonuses still struggle."
After showing a clip of one man saying that his bonus would go toward "putting food on the table," Taibbi provided merely one soundbite to defend large bonuses in the form of Wall Street headhunter Brian Drum who argued that "you have to have that incentive."
Below is a complete transript of the story from the December 16 NBC Nightly News:
John Seigenthaler, before commercial break: "When NBC Nightly News continues this Saturday, striking it rich on Wall Street. Holiday bonuses worth more than most Americans earn in a lifetime."
...
Seigenthaler: "NBC News 'In Depth' tonight: Holiday bonuses. Big celebrations on Wall Street this week as companies handed out the kind of bonuses most Americans can only dream about. Here's some perspective: Most U.S. businesses -- 66 percent -- give no bonuses at all. Those employees lucky enough to receive a cash gift will get an average of $837. Compare that to the bonuses Goldman-Sachs gives out, a jackpot so big they could give every employee more than $600,000. But that's nothing compared to what some are actually getting. NBC's Mike Taibbi takes you behind the numbers 'In Depth.'"
Mike Taibbi: "It's bonus week on Wall Street, and the numbers are mind-boggling. Thousands of banking, investment and hedge fund pros getting from the low to the high six figures. One company, Goldman-Sachs, paying out over $16 billion in bonuses. And one executive, Morgan Stanley's CEO John Mack, getting $40 million -- and he won't be alone in that rare air. There are a lot of other CEOs making the same jump, says CNBC business guru Jim Kramer, by simply trading paper."
Jim Kramer, CNBC: "There is very little creation of business. There's creation of profits, but for the most part these brokerage houses just shuffle from one group of people who are rich to another group of people who are richer."
Taibbi: "Those big bonuses have triggered an impulse buyers' market for high-end property and possessions like the BMWs Paul Simon sells."
Paul Simon, car dealer: "It's almost like kids in a toy store. It's great to see."
Taibbi: "So what's new? Twenty years ago Gordon Gekko, in the movie Wall Street, sounded the mantra."
Michael Douglas, as Gordon Gekko from movie Wall Street: "Greed, for lack of a better word, is good."
Taibbi: "But to many, today's version of the haves and have-nots feels different. In the boom of the Clinton years -- and I'm talking a chronological, not a political distinction -- the rising tide of that bull market truly did lift all boats, or at least a whole lot more of them."
Gloria Rodriguez, finance assistant: "It's frustrating sometimes that you work so hard and you don't get anything."
Taibbi: "Most employees, including finance assistant Gloria Rodriguez, don't get bonuses."
Rodriguez: "You live paycheck by paycheck just to pay for mortgages, gas, electric, everything. Even food. Even school for the kids."
Taibbi: "Working Americans now pay more of their pension and health care costs; and food, fuel and service costs have risen faster than most salaries. That means even those who do get small bonuses still struggle."
Unidentified man: "With my holiday bonus, I'm going to put food on the table."
Taibbi: "Still, the bonuses are a way to keep score."
Brian Drum, Wall Street Headhunter: "There's always going to be somebody trying to figure out a way to make the big bucks, and I think that's part of the system. I say you have to have that incentive."
Taibbi: "And this year, that incentive includes bonuses 10 to 15 percent bigger than last year -- at least. Mike Taibbi, NBC News, New York."
—Brad Wilmouth is a news analyst at the Media Research Center.
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Uh-huh. If the "Clint
December 16, 2006 - 23:57 ET by WolfremUh-huh. If the "Clinton" economy was better than present, then why were we in a recession by 2000?
"Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it." - George Santayana
Check your facts, the reces
December 17, 2006 - 00:49 ET by joe conservativeCheck your facts, the recession officially occur after Prez AWOL took office in 2001.
"Check your facts, th
December 17, 2006 - 01:22 ET by ckc1227"Check your facts, the recession officially occur after Prez AWOL took office in 2001. "
Check YOUR facts. Visit us again once you do. Maybe then you'll be able to tell us why it became official 3 months after GWB took office. I'll give you a little hint : It wasn't because President Bush ran the "awesomest economy ever" into a recession in 3 months.
"Unidentified man: "With my holiday bonus, I'm going to put food on the table.""
But he didn't say he HAD to use it to put food on the table. Just because someone chooses not to blow their bonus doesn't mean they are suffering.
As far as I am concerned, t
December 17, 2006 - 05:51 ET by exwyeorzeeAs far as I am concerned, the important thing to remember is that Clinton took office with the slogan, "It's the economy, stupid", because Bush Sr. and co. had already ruined it with 12 years of paranoid egotistical voodoo spookanomics and one incredibly stupid implied invitation to Saddam Hussein to go ahead and invade Kuwait:
After this unnecessary first gulf war drained the treasury, Clinton fed the dot-bomb frenzy with his Republican-lite laissez-faire economics. OK, so there was a recession starting in 2001, and it is no wonder that after eight years of sustained economic growth with a record pay-down of the debt, the momentum of the newly deregulated and de-tarriffed economic climb would eventually peter out as free and unfetterred corruption set in. The plateau it hit however was still very high compared to where it began eight years earlier.
What took us down the rathole though was Bush Jr's (in my opinion treasonous complicity in 9/11 and his resulting) unwinnable and unending war on peak oil that he started in Iraq on a pretext.
I can hear all you neocons screaming now. Go for it. Make my day.
You sound like a socialist
December 17, 2006 - 05:57 ET by Jack BauerYou sound like a typical braindead socialistard. I'm laughing, not screaming.
Proud member of the all-powerful and vast
militarist/industrialist/capitalist/zionist-bagelist complex
Anyone else hear that we didn
December 17, 2006 - 06:30 ET by ChemicalOperatorAnyone else hear that we didnt land on the moon? JFK was assassinated by government teletubbies? How about that every time a republican is elected an angel dies?
Come on guys, help me out, I feel like im leaving out some conspiracy theories.
This nation will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave.
Chemical -- it's common kno
December 17, 2006 - 06:40 ET by Jack BauerChemical -- it's common knowledge that the Clintons, and a secret cabal of powerful, evil Democrats who control the media, acamedia and Hollyweird, engineered 9/11 to make President Bush look bad.
It's just so obvious. And anyone who denies this is clearly a tool of the ruling liberal establishment.
Proud member of the all-powerful and vast
militarist/industrialist/capitalist/zionist-bagelist complex
Oh Oh I got one! Dick Chene
December 17, 2006 - 06:53 ET by ChemicalOperatorOh Oh I got one! Dick Cheney and Bush ran Ted Kennedy off the road all those years ago, making him drive into the lake. They then shot him with a drug that made him act drunk so he wouldnt be able to save the girl he killed. It was all a conspiracy to keep him from the presidency.
This nation will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave.
Exactly. Once you look into t
December 17, 2006 - 07:17 ET by Jack BauerExactly. Once you lock into this stuff, everything becomes blindingly obvious and explainable.
Proud member of the all-powerful and vast militarist/industrialist/capitalist/zionist-bagelist complex
You know being a liberal is k
December 17, 2006 - 07:22 ET by ChemicalOperatorYou know being a liberal is kind of fun. You dont need facts, your dont even need the event to be even possible. If you believe its true, it has to be.
I am not sure why we have been using this "fact based logic" for all these years, seems to be completely outdated.
This nation will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave.
Actually, being a Liberal is a miserable life.
December 17, 2006 - 08:01 ET by acaiguanaActually, being a Liberal is a miserable life.
From the time you get up and put on your Walmart shoes (which you hate, but what the hey, the price is good) to the time you get into your unlocked Prius (what's the point?) and drive in the smog filled air choked with remnants of second hand cigarette smoke; then arriving at a low paying job where your intelligence is just not appreciated having to serve the ignorant public that doesn't recycyle; to the exposure of all that right-wing crap on the media that makes fun of your ignorance and inability to articulate without spittle on your lips (shades of Chris Matthews); to the brief respite at Starbucks where at least the NYT is on sale; to the idea that some woman might accuse you of smiling at work; to the idea that some other person might be paying less of their fair share of taxes; to the concept that other people have more wealth than you (unfairly for sure because you deserve the same as everyone else); it has just got to be tough.
Especially when after all you have to be on guard for all those hidden racist, religious and prejudicial opinions that people are always abusing you over and reminding you of the outrage that you constantly live with.
Yeah, being a Liberal would be fun.
ACA
...
Acaiguana says: "Ya can't win if ya don't play."
All one needs to be a liberal
December 17, 2006 - 08:03 ET by Andrew H.All one needs to be a liberal is plenty of hate.
Liberalism is a convenient lie.
All one needs to be a liber
December 17, 2006 - 16:30 ET by ckc1227All one needs to be a liberal is plenty of hate.
And self-loathing.
you description of a liberal
December 17, 2006 - 19:54 ET by CaSunshineWhat a sad man you are to spew out such remarks with so much vile and hatred. I am a proud, patriotic liberal and I do not spew out hate....after going thru stations of the radio there is enough from Rush, the Savage Nation, et al. to make one sick. You are probably the same way about blacks, Latinos, ...anyone that is not like you. You cannot see...through you black fog of prejudice. I am a liberal Grandmother...who flies the flag for 40 years., married to an ex-Naval Flier...(Did you serve..or are you another Chickenhawk?) and I am smart and try to do all I can to help others...not spend my time name-calling. How pathetic!
Csunshine.......Oh no!.... Yo
December 17, 2006 - 20:01 ET by bigtimerCsunshine.......Oh no!.... You're back!
Dang it all!
(Btw..thanks Blonde about the Chargers...my teams haven't been really lucky so far....Zags lost last night....I know this is posted on wrong place, but I think you'll get it!) got to run for awhile....
"Once the coffers of the federal government are opened to the public, there will be no shutting them again." - Grover Cleveland
It's been my experience those
December 18, 2006 - 14:57 ET by Andrew H.It's been my experience those who have a need to make a point of being smart (insert gifted, a good worker, artistic, faithful, patriotic, helpful to others) usually aren't.
Liberalism is a convenient lie.
Hey grandma, did your brain fall over itself?
December 17, 2006 - 20:04 ET by acaiguanaHey grandma, did your brain fall over itself?
...(Did you serve..or are you another Chickenhawk?) and I am smart and try to do all I can to help others...not spend my time name-calling. How pathetic!
Read this part twice. I agree with you. Its pathetic.
On the right hand you call someone a Chickenhawk; on the left hand you don't spend time name-calling?
I imagine you lead your life and teach your grandchildren how to be so cogent. And by the way,
Did you serve?
ACA
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Acaiguana says: "Ya can't win if ya don't play."
CaSunshine
December 17, 2006 - 20:04 ET by BlondeYou might want to learn how to navigate this site, and how to figure out who's who here...before you start throwing around the invectives.
You who pretend to be so smart and in the next sentence call name-calling pathetic (after implying another poster, whom you know nothing about, is a Chickenhawk).
Or a better suggestion.....CaSunshine...why don't you check out Huffpost. You'd feel smarter and more welcome there, I'm sure. Just a friendly suggestion.
Rudyard Kipling's "The Young British Soldier" and Grandma
December 17, 2006 - 20:24 ET by acaiguanaBlonde, my Grandma opinion.
Rudyard Kipling's "The Young British Soldier" and Grandma. My memory was twitched and I thought of this poem and the last verse says what I think of Grandmas and their war and their heritage to their grandchildren. Grandmothers are the reason we have thousand year grudges.
When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An' go to your Gawd like a soldier.
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
So-oldier ~of~ the Queen! ...
I normally don't do all of this, but I'll make an exception here.
The Young British Soldier, Rudyard Kipling. The poem.
When the 'arf-made recruity goes out to the East
'E acts like a babe an' 'e drinks like a beast,
An' 'e wonders because 'e is frequent deceased
Ere 'e's fit for to serve as a soldier.
Serve, serve, serve as a soldier,
Serve, serve, serve as a soldier,
Serve, serve, serve as a soldier,
So-oldier ~OF~ the Queen!
Now all you recruities what's drafted to-day,
You shut up your rag-box an' 'ark to my lay,
An' I'll sing you a soldier as far as I may:
A soldier what's fit for a soldier.
Fit, fit, fit for a soldier . . .
First mind you steer clear o' the grog-sellers' huts,
For they sell you Fixed Bay'nets that rots out your guts --
Ay, drink that 'ud eat the live steel from your butts --
An' it's bad for the young British soldier.
Bad, bad, bad for the soldier . . .
When the cholera comes -- as it will past a doubt --
Keep out of the wet and don't go on the shout,
For the sickness gets in as the liquor dies out,
An' it crumples the young British soldier.
Crum-, crum-, crumples the soldier . . .
But the worst o' your foes is the sun over'ead:
You ~must~ wear your 'elmet for all that is said:
If 'e finds you uncovered 'e'll knock you down dead,
An' you'll die like a fool of a soldier.
Fool, fool, fool of a soldier . . .
If you're cast for fatigue by a sergeant unkind,
Don't grouse like a woman nor crack on nor blind;
Be handy and civil, and then you will find
That it's beer for the young British soldier.
Beer, beer, beer for the soldier . . .
Now, if you must marry, take care she is old --
A troop-sergeant's widow's the nicest I'm told,
For beauty won't help if your rations is cold,
Nor love ain't enough for a soldier.
'Nough, 'nough, 'nough for a soldier . . .
If the wife should go wrong with a comrade, be loath
To shoot when you catch 'em -- you'll swing, on my oath! --
Make 'im take 'er and keep 'er: that's Hell for them both,
An' you're shut o' the curse of a soldier.
Curse, curse, curse of a soldier . . .
When first under fire an' you're wishful to duck,
Don't look nor take 'eed at the man that is struck,
Be thankful you're livin', and trust to your luck
And march to your front like a soldier.
Front, front, front like a soldier . . .
When 'arf of your bullets fly wide in the ditch,
Don't call your Martini a cross-eyed old bitch;
She's human as you are -- you treat her as sich,
An' she'll fight for the young British soldier.
Fight, fight, fight for the soldier . . .
When shakin' their bustles like ladies so fine,
The guns o' the enemy wheel into line,
Shoot low at the limbers an' don't mind the shine,
For noise never startles the soldier.
Start-, start-, startles the soldier . . .
If your officer's dead and the sergeants look white,
Remember it's ruin to run from a fight:
So take open order, lie down, and sit tight,
And wait for supports like a soldier.
Wait, wait, wait like a soldier . . .
When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An' go to your Gawd like a soldier.
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
So-oldier ~of~ the Queen!
So, there you have it Grandma.
ACA
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Acaiguana says: "Ya can't win if ya don't play."
Grandma, one thing is for sure...YOU never served...
December 17, 2006 - 20:53 ET by Guy Arthur ThomasI always get amused when someone related by marriage or blood drops their relative's name for being a brave vet who served while chiding others who they think didn't serve ...all the while too ignorant to the obvious fact that THEY THEMSELVES never served. Hahahahahahahahaha. From a vet (that would be me) to a non-vet, Grandma you never served so shelve that argument but I am glad you fly your flag high and are a patriot. Now if we can only get your to have enough integrity and self-respect not to call people names such as prejudice or chickenhawk while claiming to object to the practice of calling names.
If you claim to be a conservative, please don't disgrace yourself and conservatism by thinking and arguing like a liberal.
From a vet to a vet, Guy...
December 17, 2006 - 21:03 ET by acaiguanaFrom a vet to a vet, Guy...
It gets to me at times that such a self-rightous poster would derail the thread with such inane comments. And to hide behind her husband's service is worse than Michael J. Fox being immune from criticism because the poor guy is sick. When you jump into the arena you better have your eyes open and your skin armor on.
Having said that, this poster is such an iconic example of the Liberal mindset. From her lofty perch of indignation about name-calling to her self-rightous statement of 'flag waving' I don't believe anything she says, except that she is a Liberal Grandmother and you know what I think of that from the above.
ACA
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Acaiguana says: "Ya can't win if ya don't play."
No, ma'am, I'm a very happy m
December 18, 2006 - 10:56 ET by Andrew H.No, ma'am, I'm a very happy man. Who makes the assumptions? I have Latinos in my family and have dated a black. My son dated a Panamamian--with nothing but love from me. I don't know where you come off assailing me the way you do--but I know why. It is a fact, like it or not, the most hateful people we have in this country are liberals. I've seen their signs! You know, the ones like "We support the troops when they shoot their officers." You can live happily in your own dream world if you want to but many of us know what is true and not true about where most of the hate resides.
I also enlisted during the Viet Nam war in my preferred branch of service--the Marine Corps. Not that being a veteran makes one more qualified to see, read and hear hate--it does not. One visit to du or the koskids and anyone can see the strong vein of hatred--pure, unabashed hatred, madam, for everything conservative and every conservative (such as faith, independence, freedom, pro-life, and pro-private enterprise). I stand by my statements and you can go back to sleep now.
Liberalism is a convenient lie.
"Oh Oh I got one! Dic
December 17, 2006 - 16:29 ET by ckc1227"Oh Oh I got one! Dick Cheney and Bush ran Ted Kennedy off the road all those years ago, making him drive into the lake. They then shot him with a drug that made him act drunk so he wouldnt be able to save the girl he killed. It was all a conspiracy to keep him from the presidency."
I thought they did it so they could trick Teddy into helping get "No Child Left Behind" passed?
The economic growth rate was
December 18, 2006 - 01:40 ET by mattmThe economic growth rate was at 4.2% and rising when Clinton took office. It was 3.8% and falling when he left office. It's growing again and has been since the Bush tax cuts took effect.
I suspect the Kuwaitis didn't
December 17, 2006 - 07:46 ET by Andrew H.I suspect the Kuwaitis didn't think the war was unneccesary. There's nothing wrong with America being a force for good in the world. And there's much to do. Freedom means a better place for human beings in this world.
Liberalism is a convenient lie.
How do I forget? The entire
December 17, 2006 - 01:33 ET by UnsaneHow do I forget? The entire world has been burning in the hottest region of Hell since 1200 EST on 20 January 2001. During the eight years previous, we had the most perfect and wonderful human being EVER in the White House, a man who LOVED us so DEEPLY and INTENSELY that he did hundreds of nonillions of GREAT THINGS for us every single hour of every single day. He personally FED, CLOTHED and SHELTERED every single American and tucked every single one into bed every single night.
The reason we are burning in Hell right now is because of The Big Meanie currently in the White House. If Mr. Greatthings were still there, the world would know no poverty, war, or any plague. But because of that damned 22nd Amendment, and us hoi polloi not appreciating what was good for us, we chose and got stuck with The Big Meanie.
joe "conservative", just how many times a day do you bow to Washington praying for government to coddle and babysit you again?
"Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy." -Sir Winston Churchill, British statesman (1874-1965)
In the Clinton years, we had
December 17, 2006 - 04:58 ET by joe conservativeIn the Clinton years, we had a dwindling lower class, an increasing middle class, and EVEN an increasing upper class. Everyone got more wealthy.
That's a damn lie. We did h
December 17, 2006 - 07:09 ET by Andrew H.That's a damn lie. We did have a Republican congress that kept him in check thank God. Otherwise we would have been taxed to death. Every time the government confiscates more income, the economy suffers, fool.
Liberalism is a convenient lie.
The computerization of Amer
December 17, 2006 - 07:32 ET by Red JeepThe computerization of America is what caused the good economy despite what Clinton did. As another writer wrote, Windows 95 +98 happened. Clinton was just along for the ride, taking credit for nothing he did and getting his monicas.
How dare you not put Clinton
December 17, 2006 - 07:36 ET by ChemicalOperatorHow dare you not put Clinton as the best president in history. Rabble rabble rabble <liberal talking point insert here> Rabble Rabble Rabbe Republicans framed the clintons for Whitewater Rabble Rabble
Did I miss anything liberals? I think im getting the knack of this.
This nation will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave.
Yeah, you'd make a good troll if you were just a bit more dumb.
December 17, 2006 - 07:41 ET by acaiguanaYeah, you'd make a good troll if you were just a bit more dumb.
I like your class object outline here for the programming module.
ACA
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Acaiguana says: "Ya can't win if ya don't play."
Ya I had to stop pretending t
December 17, 2006 - 19:43 ET by ChemicalOperatorYa I had to stop pretending to be a liberal. I was beginning to feel dirty.
This nation will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave.
You weren't a very good Liberal, anyway.
December 17, 2006 - 19:58 ET by acaiguanaYou weren't a very good Liberal, anyway.
A) You made too much sense and B) No Liberal could outline a Class Object Module with as few words as you did for us geeks.
ACA
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Acaiguana says: "Ya can't win if ya don't play."
Wow! SUCH class envy. Per
December 17, 2006 - 14:08 ET by UnsaneWow! SUCH class envy. Perhaps you need to change your name to 'joe socialist". So I take it that your deepest desire is to personally exterminate all Rich Leeches who DARE to make as much as a penny more a year than you? Perhaps string them up from telephone poles and hang signs around their necks announcing to one and all the crimes they committed: "PROFIT MAKER", "ECONOMIC WRECKER AND TRAITOR", and so forth?
Do me a favor, joe. Instead of plotting how best to steal from people the wealth you have ZERO claim to, and begging government to do to others what you lack the guts to do (commit armed robbery), why don't you invest your energies into actually participating in this economy...the greatest ever on earth?
"Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy." -Sir Winston Churchill, British statesman (1874-1965)
Class Envy
December 17, 2006 - 14:14 ET by BlondeUnsane,
You are asking far too much of poor little joe "conservative".
All he's capable of is drive-by posting and whining.
Actual work would probably kill him.
Troll Alert!!
December 17, 2006 - 01:46 ET by ww thumperCheck your facts, the rece
December 17, 2006 - 21:27 ET by liberal_bug_zapperCheck your facts, the recession officially occur after Prez AWOL took office in 2001.
Well Joe, it seems that you, like most liberals, are in need of an economics education. And I don't mean you need an advanced degree to understand economics, you just need to do a little homework and read up on how the economy works.
First lesson: The Economic engine in the US moves at a very slow rate. What people who have no clue about the economy perceive as fast changes were put in motion years before they become apparent. The good economy in the Clinton years were due to Reagan's policies, not Bush Sr. Clinton and the Democrats had little to do with the good economy in the 1990s as the Democrats in the Congress only lasted two years of Clinton's presidency. But what is more, the economic pressures of the 90s had little to do with government action. This was a boom driven by a new technology, hence the name "Dot Com boom". The biggest problem with Clinton and, dare I say, the Republicans, was the oversight, or the lack thereof, of the Dot Com voodoo economy. Reganomics or trickledown economics, or the Laffer curve, works. Drop taxes and people invest in new business.... more money begins to flow and soon, full employment is reached. Once full employment is reached, wages go up... for everyone... and not by idiotic mandate by some government body.
Ditch diggers, dish washers, counter clerks etc... who are unskilled and educated little don’t' deserve good wages. They deserve what we give them and nothing more. They are plebes. They are idiots. They are retards. Just like Joe Conservative and all the other Liberals here. If you want a higher wage... become skilled. These jobs and these positions are meant for those just entering the workforce. They’re not expected to be what you do for your whole life. So build up your worth.... make yourself irreplaceable. But for Christ’s sake, shut the hell up and quit complaining about the minimum wage, or how little the poor earn. People earn what they are worth... and if you earn 2.85 per hour.... you aren't worth much. If you don't work to improve yourself, you are a worthless POS and don't deserve higher pay. Put down the PS3 and the Ho Hos and go out and get some education.... and I'm not talking a Liberal Arts education.... because if you get one of those, you might as well be a fungus for all the good it will do you or the country.
Practical Econ 101
December 17, 2006 - 21:35 ET by Blondel_b_z,
Real World Econ 101. Holy Smokes, Batman (a term I reserve for my boss, when he's particularly brilliant)! That was perfect.
I think even a liberal pretender may be able to understand it, there, fella.
You should think about patenting that.
I really enjoyed it. Thanks!
Laughing. ;-)
Thanks Blonde...It just bur
December 17, 2006 - 22:22 ET by liberal_bug_zapperThanks Blonde...
It just burns me up when people complain about an economy based on the earning power of idiots. No one wants an idiot to do anything except dig a ditch or mow a lawn. And for the most part, that should be done by those just entering the workforce as it requires no ability other than being healthy.
When I was in high school, unlike my fellow students, I woke up at 3:30 am and went to milk the cows, then, after I milked the cows, I cleaned the manure out of the barn and the barnyard and after that... the farmer's wife fed all the farm hands..... huge plates of bacon, ham, eggs, hash browns and toast all washed down with warm, cream-laden milk. Then, I went to school. After school got out at 3:30pm, I was back on the farm turning the freshly cut alfalfa or bailing hay or repairing or replacing fences or any other work the farmer could think of for me. Did that until 6:30 when we ate dinner. I was paid minimum wage. I was 16. I didn't deserve any more than minimum wage as I had no skills other than I was a strapping young guy who could do a lot of manual labor.
Then, after graduation, I lucked out and got a job at a cement plant as a pre-cast worker.... that means I was the guy making septic tanks, well tiles (the concrete tubes you put down in the earth to create a well), anchors, curbs, center dividers, parking stops and even some more delicate work like fountains. I worked about 10 hours a day, 6 days a week and yes, I did make overtime and yes, my earnings were triple that of the minimum wage, but I couldn't even think after the end of each day and it was all I could do to drag myself home and shower before collapsing into my bed (or a couch if I didn't make it that far) at around 9pm. Did that for a year while I studied to get into the fire academy.After that year, I then joined the fire department (went to the academy as well as got my EMT cert).
Now I'm saying all this because each job I took raised my wage and increased my level of earning capacity. I became skilled and continued to improve myself. So I can say this next comment with some authority.
If you are older than 25 years old and you can't earn more than the minimum wage... you are either really retarded or you are a lazy POS and you make me sick.
I am now a designer of computers in Asia. I speak fluent Mandarin and have an advanced degree in computer science.... all done while I was working. I didn't get student loans (lily white back in early 90s precluded me from a lot of perks), and I certainly didn't get any grants or scholarships. I now earn a six figure income and it's because I worked my ass off.... I didn't sit around whining and complaining about how I was entitled or how the rich were cheating. I worked hard and long to be where I am.
Our economy does well because of people like me... not the retards that Congress and the President keep calling the backbone of America.... what a crock.
l_b_z,Not to sound like a bro
December 17, 2006 - 22:34 ET by Blondel_b_z,
Not to sound like a broken record or anything....but, you need to patent that post as well.
It is the n'est-plus-ultra put down for all the minimum wage whiners. Absolutely perfect.
Wishing you and your family a Merry Christmas from West to East, and further success in all that you do.
Edit: I think you just out-Unsaned Unsane, too.
Thanks again.... notice how
December 18, 2006 - 01:07 ET by liberal_bug_zapperThanks again.... notice how no Lib will take up the challenge of a good argument? They are much like hyenas which look for a weakness or a perceived mistake and harp on that until the entire focus has changed to defending something that didn't even happen..... e.g. crshedd and his/her obsession for the 100,000 remark.
He/she isn't even the least bit disgusted at the Davis/Bacon extortion racket that drives up the cost of everything.
He also won't argue that people working within a free market system generally get paid what they're worth if government does not interfere (with the exception of protecting children from predatory labor practices and slave labor). He won't argue the fact that if the horse and buggy is no longer being used, than the buggy whip makers should not be able to keep their jobs. He will not argue that ditch diggers are entry level positions and that even paying them 10 dollars an hour is an insult to the very nature of the free market (unless they're in high demand and low supply, which is where you see wages go up.)
No, crshedd won't argue those points because he/she would lose.
l_b_z
December 18, 2006 - 01:27 ET by BlondeYes, well....crshedd didn't even try to make any salient points whatsoever.....he (and he claims to be one) fell back on the old liberal ruse of "show me"...and then of course trying to twist the argument. And then whining....typical.
I'd bet you've read Milton Friedman, yes?
I've enjoyed your posts...l_b_z....but it's getting to be seriously o-dark thirty on my side of the world. Outa here soon.
Sweet dreams and MERRY CHRI
December 18, 2006 - 02:00 ET by liberal_bug_zapperSweet dreams and MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!! (bold and big just for all you Libs out there).
I wonder if a Lexus search wo
December 17, 2006 - 00:11 ET by tracheostomyI wonder if a Lexus search would hit all the times that the MSM ever used that Michael Douglas quote above.
I've never seen the movie Wall Street, but it seems like I see that clip on TV at least twice a year ever since the movie came out.
Seriously.
-PJ
http://www.draftcondi.us/
A suggestion for Mike
December 17, 2006 - 00:13 ET by nkviking75Hey Mike, if you really wanted to make a distinction between chronological and political eras, why not substitute "The 90's" for "The Clinton Years"?
You're welcome.
NBC - National Broadcasters for Clinton
December 17, 2006 - 00:14 ET by Free StinkerNY Post last week: Goldman Sachs gave out $16 Billion in bonuses this year. Companies aren't pumping there stocks up through fraud (Enron, MCI-Worldcom, Adelphia) and the DJI is at it's all time high.
This, 5/6 years after the dot-com bust, all the fraud from the Clinton era was discovered, and the country is in the middle of a war.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"One thing that seperates liberals from conservatives is that liberals are craftier and work without the hinderance of a conscience." --Lynn Wooley
"In the boom of the Cl
December 17, 2006 - 01:32 ET by ckc1227"In the boom of the Clinton years -- and I'm talking a chronological, not a political distinction -- the rising tide of that bull market truly did lift all boats, or at least a whole lot more of them."
And as a result, more boats sank as the water rose because they were built with faulty material.
Prez AWOL saw the immense su
December 17, 2006 - 05:00 ET by joe conservativePrez AWOL saw the immense surplus in the US Treasury. With Bush allowing 9/11 to happen opened the doors for their 'clean break'...allowed an excuse for no bid contracts...and allowed an easy funnel of our US treasury dollars right into the pockets of those who can afford stock in any of the Bush Co's favorite corporations.
Funny, where is the proof of
December 17, 2006 - 07:18 ET by ChemicalOperatorFunny, where is the proof of this? Accuse all you want, but without FACTS I am just going to assume your chewing on your tin foil hat again.
This nation will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave.
Hey, joe, are you real?
December 17, 2006 - 07:24 ET by acaiguanaHey, joe conservative, are you real?
Your concept of the economy, how it works and who does or does not benefit and how the wealth was distributed under Clinton and now under Bush is so archiac that I wonder if you don't live in England under Charles Dickens.
Memo to you: Wealth is not finite.
Second memo: The 'little guy' and the 'working stiff' aren't the backbone of American economics anymore.
The little guy is a totally uneducated gang kid or citizen produced out of our Liberal Public School system who thinks illegible scrawls of paint on walls is literature. He/She thinks the world revolves around a gun, drugs and gang rapes with willing participating 'chicks' who tattoo themselves with blue Bic pen ink. The greatest award any one of them can receive is a 20 year sentence in a state prison.
The working stiff is making Davis/Bacon prevailing wages on a fat government earmarked contract project upwards of $50 an hour (that's $100K a year for those of you in Rio Linda). The people benefitting from this largess from your wallet through the corrupt political government are the Union leaders, the illegals hired by sub-contractors and the local government Democrat Political Machine in the Inner Cities. The workmanship is often shoddy and certainly inefficient and no one has a stake in the result except often the poor taxpayer who has to drive through the pot holed detours of the new 'bridge' project.
The Dot Com binge was a whole cloth fantasy that created much less wealth than was reported similar to the fact that 10,000 people didn't die in New Orleans and 675,000 people haven't died in Iraq. But what the hey, if it sounds good, class envy and resentment of capitalists is good for politcs, huh?
Take Enron for example. The press reported that it was criminally sad that all of their employees would lose their pensions. Well, their pensions consisted of valueless stock issued by their paper company that produced and added no real value to the economic engine. This fantasy value was no more worth what the News reported it to be than all of the dreams of the nerds working the Dot Com thin air idea that setting up a web site somewhere selling poetry over the ether was going to skyrocket them into the multi-millionaire category of super rich tycoons. And I have no sympathy for them.
And anyone with a smattering of common sense and understanding of economics knew all of this before the crash.
Just as the herd mentality thinks the price of oil can never come down, the price of houses always goes up and pigs can fly.
So, one of the results of the horrible schools in the US is not only the inability to read diplomas but also to understand what wealth is, how it is created under capitalism and how to count.
So, the assumptive basis for your assertions is so whacked out that I can barely restrain my amazement at the ignorance behind their existence. But I digress. How can you write this drivel with a straight face?
ACA
...
Acaiguana says: "Ya can't win if ya don't play."
Good luck, Acaiguana--but hav
December 17, 2006 - 07:29 ET by Andrew H.Good luck, Acaiguana--but have never seen this poster open to facts or truth. He's not interested in learning; he's an example of a liberal blogger who have his mind made up for him by other soicalists and then repeats little cliches and phrases--nothing of substance, nothing of value, nothing true... I suspect he's a troll on a misison from du or the koskids.
Liberalism is a convenient lie.
Sand and rat holes.
December 17, 2006 - 07:37 ET by acaiguanaSand and rat holes.
I have stopped most of my activity here because it is like the dike and Hans' finger. Ran out of fingers.
ACA
...
Acaiguana says: "Ya can't win if ya don't play."
"I have stopped most o
December 17, 2006 - 16:36 ET by ckc1227"I have stopped most of my activity here because it is like the dike and Hans' finger. Ran out of fingers"
What does rosie have to do with this?
Yeah, I know. I misspelled it too in the original. My bad.
December 17, 2006 - 16:39 ET by acaiguanaYeah, I know. I misspelled it too in the original. My bad.
...
Acaiguana says: "Ya can't win if ya don't play."
Rosie's role
December 17, 2006 - 16:41 ET by dagdaGiven that Rosie's s/o is the one having the kid, I would think it would Rosie's fingers, not Han's.
Our real problem, then, is not our strength today; it is rather the vital necessity of action today to ensure our strength tomorrow. Dwight Eisenhower
Eeeewwwww.
December 17, 2006 - 16:50 ET by BlondeEeeewwwww.
The working stiff makes $100,
December 17, 2006 - 14:07 ET by crsheddThe working stiff makes $100,000 per year?
The median income in this country is $43,389. Your numbers just don't work.
http://www.answers.c...
A working stiff is a service worker (wiat staff, cashier, etc) or blue collar worker (manual laborer). Not very many of these people make $50 an hour. Hell, wait staff make $2.35 an hour plus tips. I am willing to bet they don't get $47.65 an hour in tips.
so, crshedd, I take it you wa
December 17, 2006 - 14:12 ET by Unsaneso, crshedd, I take it you want to exterminate every single Leech that makes above median income? If anything else, it makes them easier to steal from.
I do not center my life focusing on what other people make. Besides, I know in due course, I'll be making $100K or more a year. And then I will walk around with a big fat target symbol on my back, placed there by people like you who can't go out and make that themselves but want to steal it anyway via the government.
"Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy." -Sir Winston Churchill, British statesman (1874-1965)
Read the post I responded to,
December 17, 2006 - 14:16 ET by crsheddRead the post I responded to, In. The writer was throwing around figures as facts, and I had to call him on that. But, don't bother your little head with facts. They can get confusing.
Oh yeah, crshedd.Facts. Lik
December 17, 2006 - 14:19 ET by BlondeOh yeah, crshedd.
Facts. Like the fact that ACA was referring to a mandated wage for a government project that equated to approximately $100K per year on an annualized basis.
Inconvenient little facts like that, hmmm...
Careful who you call out.....
For someone with all those supposed advanced degrees, I've got some problems with you, your reasoning, and your writing ability.
crshedd wouldn't know a fact if it walked up and bit him.
December 17, 2006 - 16:36 ET by acaiguanacrshedd wouldn't know a fact if it walked up and bit him.
And anyone who has ever read my posts know I just hate numbers as if they were 'facts'. Those pesky numbers. It's OK for Liberals to throw out numbers as if they were 'facts'. Witness Mr. Teddy Kennedy citing 34 million hungry in America. That's OK because it is completely insulting to everything American.
But if a Conservative points out a number as if it were relevant to a discussion (and it wasn't presented as a 'fact' but used as an example) then that makes it OK to say, I'm just attacking the throwing out of numbers as if they were facts.
I am quite familiar with all 9 numbers and zero. We've become old friends. I just have to say to crshedd this....
(comes with a picture)
"At the far right are several large areas of activity in numerical linear algebra and related topics, typically, the study of individual matrices or transformations between (large-dimensional) real vector spaces. Numerical linear algebra per se (e.g. the determination of fast methods of solving thousands of simultaneous linear equations, the stability of eigenvalue calculations, applications to finite-element methods, sparse matrix techniques) are parts of 65: Numerical Analysis, particularly 65F: Numerical linear algebra. Here we include several fields of inquiry into the underlying linear systems and their applications. In this category we might include 15A06: Linear equations, 15A09: Matrix inversion and generalized inverses, 15A18: Eigenvalues and singular values, 15A23: Factorization of matrices (SVD, LU, QR, etc.), 15A12: Conditioning of matrices, as well as applications to physics (15A90), Control Theory (93) and Statistics (62) such as what is there known as Principal Component Analysis. Related topics include those of importance in 90: Operations Research (especially linear programming) such as 15A48: Positive matrices, 15A39: Linear inequalities, and 15A45: Miscellaneous matrix inequalities.
The circles in shades of red in the lower part of the graph show connections with other fields of algebra. Furthest down is 15A72: Invariant theory and tensor algebra, which crosses to the study of invariants in Group Theory (20) and in polynomial rings (13: Commutative Algebra and 14: Algebraic Geometry). Certain sets of matrices form well-known groups, particularly the Lie groups (22) and algebraic groups. Closer to the center of the picture are connections with Number Theory (10 and 11), especially 15A63: Quadratic forms. There are several connections with ring theory (16: Noncommutative Rings, 17: Nonassociative Rings, 19: Algebraic K-Theory); indeed many of the key examples of such rings involve collections of matrices, including the full matrix rings and Lie rings, and rings of matrices are used for representing groups and general rings. Related disciplines within Linear Algebra include 15A27: Commutativity, 15A30: Algebraic systems of matrices, 15A33: Matrices over special rings (including 12: Fields), 15A36: Matrices of integers, 15A75: Grassmann algebras, and 15A78: Other algebras. Tensor products in linear algebra (15A69) mirror such constructs in other algebraic categories.
Nearby are several fields in discrete mathematics, including the use of matrices for the representation of combinatorical objects such as graphs (05: Combinatorics), extremal matrices, permanents (15A15), and applications to 68:Computer Science, 94: Information Theory (e.g. linear codes), and 39: Difference equations.
In the upper left are the papers in "geometric algebra", including 15A66 (Clifford algebras), 81 (Quantum theory), 53 (Differential Geometry), and 58 (Analysis on manifolds).
In the upper right are the topics appropriate for 60: Probability and 62: Statistics, including 15A51: Stochastic matrices and 15A52: Random matrices, and applications to statistical mechanics (82) and the sciences (92).
Linear maps of geometric interest are considered in the geometry pages (51, 52). For example, rotation matrices and affine changes of coordinates come under 51F15. Sets of matrices qua sets arise geometrically as well; for example certain families of matrices form manifolds, and even topological groups (22).
Subfields
There is only one division (15A) but it is subdivided:
15A03: Vector spaces, linear dependence, rank
15A04: Linear transformations, semilinear transformations
15A06: Linear equations
15A09: Matrix inversion, generalized inverses
15A12: Conditioning of matrices, See also 65F35
15A15: Determinants, permanents, other special matrix functions, See also 19B10, 19B14
15A18: Eigenvalues, singular values, and eigenvectors
15A21: Canonical forms, reductions, classification
15A22: Matrix pencils, See also 47A56
15A23: Factorization of matrices
15A24: Matrix equations and identities
15A27: Commutativity
15A29: Inverse problems [new in 2000]
15A30: Algebraic systems of matrices, See also 16S50, 20Gxx, 20Hxx
15A33: Matrices over special rings (quaternions, finite fields, etc.)
15A36: Matrices of integers, See also 11C20
15A39: Linear inequalities
15A42: Inequalities involving eigenvalues and eigenvectors
15A45: Miscellaneous inequalities involving matrices
15A48: Positive matrices and their generalizations; cones of matrices
15A51: Stochastic matrices
15A52: Random matrices
15A54: Matrices over function rings in one or more variables
15A57: Other types of matrices (Hermitian, skew-Hermitian, etc.)
15A60: Norms of matrices, numerical range, applications of functional analysis to matrix theory, See also 65F35, 65J05
15A63: Quadratic and bilinear forms, inner products See mainly 11Exx
15A66: Clifford algebras, spinors
15A69: Multilinear algebra, tensor products
15A72: Vector and tensor algebra, theory of invariants, See Also 13A50, 14D25
15A75: Exterior algebra, Grassmann algebras
15A78: Other algebras built from modules
15A90: Applications of matrix theory to physics
15A99: Miscellaneous topics
Browse all (old) classifications for this area at the AMS."
...
Acaiguana says: "Ya can't win if ya don't play."
Okay, ACA,I know that picture
December 17, 2006 - 16:47 ET by BlondeOkay, ACA,
I know that picture!
And I know you, and numbers, too. And you & numbers, come to think of it.
crshedd is a fakir, of the worst sort. Notice how there is just great chirping of crickets once the error of his ways have been pointed out.
Too nice to worry about trolls.
BTW...beautiful Bertram '38 just went by. Something to think about, in terms of numbers. ;-)
Yeah, inconvenient little fac
December 17, 2006 - 19:11 ET by crsheddYeah, inconvenient little facts.
Was aca referring to working stiffs or government contractors. Totally different. That reinforces my argument. His numbers do not match up with WORKING STIFFS.
Now if he were talking about government contractors I would agree with him. However, that contractor is not going to be paying his ditchdigger, framer, roofer, etc, $100,000 per year. But that is what you are saying, that ANYONE who is involved under a government contract makes $100,000 per year. Maybe you should be careful who you call out...
So, what was he talking about? Working stiffs or government contractors? Government contracts require contractors to pay the 'prevailing wage'. How many ditchdiggers, framers, bus drivers or any other 'working stiff' makes $50 per hour? I know auto repair places charge that much, but does the mechanic see that much? According to aca's working stiff definition, the mechanic gets all of that. Hard to believe, especially if the owner has to pay for ANY overhead at all.
Totally Inconvenient Facts - crshedd
December 17, 2006 - 19:38 ET by Blondecrshedd,
For someone with supposed multiple advanced degrees, you are surely dense.
Did you even read what ACA or I posted? For content? Didn't think so.
What you got out of it was.....directly quoting you with my take on this.... ANYONE who is involved under a government contract makes $100,000 per year. Which I clearly didn't say, nor did I even remotely imply it.
So, I'm not too worried about calling you out.....silly, reading impaired man. Why don't you try enrolling in High School Reading 101 (to go along with all of your advanced degrees), and try again.
BTW....if you wish to know what ACA's exact meaning was, why don't you ask him? He might be a little kinder to you than I, but then again, maybe not.
Quoting you directly: 'Fact
December 18, 2006 - 00:06 ET by crsheddQuoting you directly:
'Fact. Like the fact that ACA was referring to a mandated wage for a government project equated to approximately $100K per year on an annualized basis.'
So, working stiffs (as ACA calls them) make $100K per year (on an annualized basis). That is what I said you said. I said I didn't think that the working stiff made that much, even on government contracts. Please show me a citation that says I am wrong. I asked ACA but have not heard from him. I have posted a couple sites showing that working stiffs do not make that much. The government requires workers be paid the prevailing wage. Now in some areas, evidently in Cook County according to dmntd1, $100K could be close to the prevailing wage. But, all government contracts are not in Cook County.
Keep Trying, Crshedd, You're still Flailing
December 18, 2006 - 00:30 ET by BlondeQuoting you directly:
Now if he were talking about government contractors I would agree with him. However, that contractor is not going to be paying his ditchdigger, framer, roofer, etc, $100,000 per year. But that is what you are saying, that ANYONE who is involved under a government contract makes $100,000 per year. Maybe you should be careful who you call out...
Which I clearly did not say.
However. ACA's point is perfectly valid. There are governmental projects wherein the wage of an un-skilled worker may be $100K per year, which is what he used as an example. Which is exactly what I said, to whit:
Like the fact that ACA was referring to a mandated wage for a government project equated to approximately $100K per year on an annualized basis.
However, you took it and twisted it, now didn't you?
Care to correct your mistatement where I said ANYONE? I don't appreciate you attempting to twist MY words. Do I hear an apology?
I am certain you will hear from ACA in the morning.
I am not, after all, his interpreter, nor would he be pleased with me for arguing on his behalf. You have questions about his experience....ask him.
Different issue--but I stronl
December 18, 2006 - 06:19 ET by Andrew H.Different issue--but I stronly suspect the dems consider $100,000 "rich." They've done it before and raised taxes on everyone earning more than $40,000. Remember? Are you ready to have more taken out of your business and payroll?
Best get prepared now.
Liberalism is a convenient lie.
Ya know crshedd, you ought to try to make a payroll one time.
December 17, 2006 - 19:51 ET by acaiguanaYa know crshedd, you ought to try to make a payroll one time.
If you don't understand Davis/Bacon wages and prevailing wage law then why don't you just quit.
Yes, I'm talking about laborers who make upwards of $50 an hour on government contracts. This varies from district to district depending on the prevailing wage of the region. Take a hike son, you are out of your league.
ACA
...
Acaiguana says: "Ya can't win if ya don't play."
Sure would like to see where
December 17, 2006 - 23:00 ET by crsheddSure would like to see where your information comes from. Got a citation?
I understand Davis/Bacon and
December 18, 2006 - 00:13 ET by crsheddI understand Davis/Bacon and have made payroll in two different businesses (for 6 years now).
Best I could find (I wasn't going to go thru every state and city) you are basing your whole statement on the Davis/Bacon prevailing wage of New York City. Now I get it. Just cherry pick your facts to fit your argument.
By the way, here is a citation of Davis/Bacon determinations. Look at Alabama. But, you won't, it doesn't fit your statement.
http://www.gpo.gov/d...
Um... OK, I'll grant your point crshedd... Now What?
December 18, 2006 - 05:54 ET by acaiguanaUm... OK, I'll grant your point crshedd... Now What?
Anything to say about the issues dealt with in my post?
Or is my extreme example the only thing you disagree with? That is the point of silly examples (extreme) isn't it? To emphasize a point?
For example, one would agree that Davis/Bacon is extortionist would one not? The free market is stymied with the rules of government contracts and that is the economy that is represented by a minimum wage rate. Since the minimum wage is really the basis for Union Contract negotiations, a hike in the impacted minimum for the recipient population (that means not many people actually make the minimum wage) really translates to a major hike in all labor rates associated with Unions and Davis/Bacon rates. Unions are the beneficiaries of Davis/Bacon, a corrupt special interest group piece of Legislation if there ever was one, and my so-called 'working stiff' doesn't have to even be in a Union to benefit from the mandated fascistic wage under the law.
And another point to you would be that I can define 'working stiff' as well as the next guy since it wasn't defined and left dangling to imply that there is this hoard of 'working stiffs' out there getting screwed by the economy. I think your sore point is that my statement about $100K a year really drove to the heart of that subtle lie.
Whatever the working stiff in America makes (and I know a lot of software nerds who would call themselves working stiffs) it is never going to be enough for the politicians because without this particular proletariat victim their class warfare model falls apart.
And this is the argument that you seem to be advancing. There is a hoard of people getting the short end of the economic stick.
To this I would defer to unsane and liberal_bug_zapper and Blonde, but I would like to say that in spite of the negative twist and the clinging of Democrats to the 'working guy' advocacy politics they practice the numbers just don't agree with their picture. The actual disposable income available to the middle class has increased under Bush with very low inflation (prices) and tax rebates, reductions and wage increases. So, while you can argue the example I used was facile you would have to agree that wage controls might not be good for a market economy, no?
As to the rest of my post which wasn't even addressed to any point you tried to make previously, it would be nice to see a Liberal come here and debate the substance of the post's ideas and issues rather than rag on about a relatively minor point made in a facile manner to illustrate the absurdity that American Workers are underpaid and overworked.
It is sort of like saying that once someone works for their first job at minimum wage they are dependent upon government to give them any raises throughout their working lifespan. Now that would be facile, wouldn't it?
...
Acaiguana says: "Ya can't win if ya don't play."
I'm not sure NYC is a tax fri
December 18, 2006 - 06:15 ET by Andrew H.I'm not sure NYC is a tax friendly place is it? Prices are determined by demand--and if taxes cause prices to be higher and demand remains a constant, then wages have to be higher in order to attract labor who can afford to live in the area... how's the ratio of business lost to business starts in New York? I don't know but I suspect it's higher in Alabama--in terms of business starts.
Liberalism is a convenient lie.
How many government ditchdigg
December 17, 2006 - 22:21 ET by dmntd1How many government ditchdiggers, indeed, do make $100,000.... well, not THAT many, at least, not quite that much...
Highway Operating Engineers (they work those big, diesel burning, smoke belching machines that DIG DITCHES) in Cook County, IL make..... $80,000 based on a 40 hour week, plus the employer pays an additional $30,000 into pension, insurance, vacation and training...
Carpenters make $73,000, plus the employer shells out an additional $29,000
Electricians (inside) $72,600 + $35,000
all in all, everyone of those is 'getting paid' better than $100,000..... or, at least the employer is paying out that much....
Please make sure your train of thought carries freight.
http://socrates.cdr.state.tx.
December 17, 2006 - 22:54 ET by crsheddhttp://socrates.cdr....
National average for operating engineer: $18.62 which equals $38,729.60 per year. You live in a very expensive area.
This is really what a working stiff makes. Thus the 'prevailing wage' would match this on a national average.
Hey, don't bother your little
December 17, 2006 - 14:20 ET by UnsaneHey, don't bother your little head with THIS fact:
No society on earth ever made it to the forefront of civilization by punishing its most successful, productive citizens through whatever means and then rewarding its failures. And you CANNOT tax your way to wealth, whatever a Leftist might tell you.
When you were earning those five trillion degrees, did you ever once take a course in history?
"Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy." -Sir Winston Churchill, British statesman (1874-1965)
What does that do with someon
December 17, 2006 - 19:21 ET by crsheddWhat does that have to do with someone saying that working stiffs make $100,000 per year?
When you weren't earning any degrees, did you ever learn to follow a thread?
And very typical of this site. I report I have 4 degrees and you can't even get that right. Is that how GWBush drove up the deficit so much? 'Duh, I need 4 million, let's just round it up to 4 trillion, nobody will notice'.
You would be quite surprised
December 17, 2006 - 23:01 ET by UnsaneYou would be quite surprised at my education.
The reason why I am pointing this out, Mr. "I have five trillion degrees and was once a high school principal therefore I know everything" crshedd, is because your whine about someone, ANYONE, saying that working stiffs make $100K a year, highlights to me your anger at the thought that ANYONE could make $100K a year.
Instead of consuming yourself with rage and hatred at people who just might make a penny more than you a year, perhaps you should invest your energies into trying to earn more for yourself. That being said:
No society on earth has ever succeeded and made it to the forefront of humanity by punishing its most successful citizens through whatever means and then turning around and rewarding its biggest failures. Nor can any society, past, present or future, tax its way to wealth, no matter what any Leftist might tell you.
Again, while on the way to becoming the most highly educated human being ever, did you take a course in history...or a course called "macroeconomics"?
(Typical educator. Because someone put him in a position to be one, he automatically thinks himself the smartest human being on earth, and everyone around him as idiots.)
"Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy." -Sir Winston Churchill, British statesman (1874-1965)
Geez, In. I make more than $1
December 17, 2006 - 23:12 ET by crsheddGeez, In. I make more than $100,000 (now that I am out of education). I have no problem with what people earn. I had a major doubt at what aca was stating as fact. Don't you guys on this site question? I guess if a conservative says something it must be true, don't check facts, they just get in the way.
"No society on earth..." you are repeating yourself.
Never thought I was the smartest person on earth. I was taught to question everything. I was taught critical thinking. I was taught not to think in lockstep with anyone. And that is what you want me to do. 'Oh, it says blah, blah, blah on NewsBusters so I have to believe it.' Don't think so.
How would you 'tax your way to wealth'? Last time I looked, the government got the taxes, not people. And the government is not taxing it's way to wealth, it is growing the defict beyond comprehension.
Why, thank you for pointing o
December 17, 2006 - 23:25 ET by UnsaneWhy, thank you for pointing out I was repeating myself. I often do that for the benefit of Leftists. I now grant you another degree: M.O.: Master of the Obvious.
Surprise, I critically think too! How about that! I additionally was taught not to think in lockstep with anyone (yet you seem to be thinking in lockstep with the Left, and before you cry that I think in lockstep with the Right, you should be aware that I have made statements repeatedly on NB that I thought for sure would earn me the shunning of most Right-wing posters here). You don't have to agree with anyone, for I am not your keeper. But don't expect to post your vision of reality on the screen here and not have it challenged either.
And actually, you are contradicting yourself. I believe it was last week when you cried the Nile, Amazon, Murray, Darling, Hwang Ho and Mississippi Rivers over what Mr. Raymond, formerly of ExxonMobil was paid for retirement, and how that wasn't fair, and how we have a claim to his money (and, by logical extension, the idea of earnings and private porperty are out the window), and how the average person will earn $1.5 million is his/her lifetime, and so on and so forth. Though I applauded your reaction, for you did what anyone should do if upset by such action, that does not mean I bought into your logic one bit. If you earn more than $100K a year, you are worth more than $100K a year. So, to say that you have no problem with what other people earn is you being forgetful at best.
"Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy." -Sir Winston Churchill, British statesman (1874-1965)
Personally, I don't think of
December 17, 2006 - 23:38 ET by crsheddPersonally, I don't think of bonuses as 'earned' income. You remembered fairly well. I didn't, however, say we have a claim to that money. I did say I felt is was extremely excessive and that the American people are paying for it.
And all my 'vision of reality' was, was that I questioned a statement that the 'working stiff' makes $100,000 per year. Because I didn't just accept that statement several here are all over me. That shows that thinking is not allowed. That shows that I must accept anything said on this site by a conservative. Won't ever happen. And if questioning stated facts is thinking in lockstep 'with the left', I guess I am guilty of that. At least someone questions purported facts.
My thought is that those on t
December 18, 2006 - 00:48 ET by UnsaneMy thought is that those on the Right have more vibrant debates on different ideas and approaches than does the Left, but we'll save that for another time.
I would like to hear your explanation as to why a "bonus" is not earned income. The IRS certainly did not take that view, and back when I was in the private sector, I got bonuses. Guess what? The IRS considered it income. And you did say it we had a claim on it. When I stated that it was ExxonMobil's money, and additionally stated that it stopped being my money when my pump cut off and the amount charged to my credit card flashed on the screen, you insisted "but it IS your money". Which is incorrect: I needed to give ExxonMobil X amount of dollars for Y amount of gasoline, so the instant I paid them I lost any claim I once had on that money, precisely as an employer's ability to tell me what to do with the money they pay me for my services ends when I see the paycheck in my checking account.
You can say that the "bonus" was excessive all you want but as the money is not yours, that's all you can do.
And as for your final paragraph: it seems to me that is in fact you that is whining about why we aren't instantly posting to you with "Gee, crshedd, you are so right! I'm an idiot, I'll shut up now and let you, the good Leftist, do all my thinking for me." The fact is that you related your information, and people questioned you on it. That's going to happen, sorry. Accept it. You HAVE to have a thicker skin to hang here on NB and I learned that early on.
"Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy." -Sir Winston Churchill, British statesman (1874-1965)
4 degrees below stupid
December 17, 2006 - 23:16 ET by Free StinkerI have 4 degrees
Guess how much Union Janitor's make in New York City? (sucker!)
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"One thing that seperates liberals from conservatives is that liberals are craftier and work without the hinderance of a conscience." --Lynn Wooley
Hey Free....see you showed up
December 17, 2006 - 23:22 ET by BlondeHey Free....see you showed up in time for troll patrol.
Tomorrow's posts ought to be a tad interesting, yes?
I seem to have bad timing.
December 17, 2006 - 23:30 ET by Free StinkerI seem to have bad timing. ;-)
. . . new job, no net access, must connect at nite :-(
Welcome to the Night Side, Fr
December 17, 2006 - 23:37 ET by BlondeWelcome to the Night Side, Free.
Wow, you weren't kidding about quitting your job, were you?
Sure wasn't. :-)My old empl
December 17, 2006 - 23:40 ET by Free StinkerSure wasn't. :-)
My old employer might have thought so, but . . . whatever . . .
Well, according to the Bureau
December 17, 2006 - 23:46 ET by crsheddWell, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics of the United States Department of Labor (http://www.bls.gov/o...) they make, on average, $10.65 in the private sector and $14.78 in state and local government operations.
So, your point is?
Sorry, forgot to add 'Sucker'.
Geez, I just noticed that those stats are from 2000. They probably jumped, what, $42 an hour since then?
The point we refer to isn't the one on the top of you head
December 17, 2006 - 23:49 ET by Free StinkerThe point is, regardless of what the "Bureau says", in NYC they make your salary.
Enjoy.
And they still can't afford t
December 17, 2006 - 23:54 ET by crsheddAnd they still can't afford to live in NYC.
Are you saying that the Bush Administration is a bunch of liars?
It really bothers you, doesn't it troll?
December 17, 2006 - 23:59 ET by Free StinkerI'm saying I take the word of former colleagues (ex-teachers - them, not me) over some government bureaucrat.
Be careful about listening to
December 18, 2006 - 00:22 ET by crsheddBe careful about listening to teachers. Unsane has spoken well for this site about the quality of teachers.
And we all know no one on this site attended public school.
Do you have a point... or a
December 18, 2006 - 00:42 ET by liberal_bug_zapperDo you have a point... or an argument, or are you just going to continually attack those who make very good points.
You've taken the 100,000 dollar comment out of context and have run with the new context you made up. Some here have fallen for your ruse, but I won't.
The original statement was this;
The working stiff is making Davis/Bacon prevailing wages on a fat government earmarked contract project upwards of $50 an hour (that's $100K a year for those of you in Rio Linda). The people benefitting from this largess from your wallet through the corrupt political government are the Union leaders, the illegals hired by sub-contractors and the local government Democrat Political Machine in the Inner Cities. The workmanship is often shoddy and certainly inefficient and no one has a stake in the result except often the poor taxpayer who has to drive through the pot holed detours of the new 'bridge’ project.
Now this is is in context. It seems that you played loosely with his words trying desperately (as most liberals are desperate individuals in vain search of a cogent thought) to make it seem as if he was saying every "working stiff" was earning 100K, when what he really said was "The working stiff is making Davis/Bacon prevailing wages on a fat government earmarked contract project upwards of $50 an hour..."
Did you see the word "upwards"? How about where he was identifying a very specific region with his reference, did you recognize that? I thought not. No, it is you and every other liberal's primary job to take a single word or phrase out of a sentence out of context, and turn around and scream "See, he said this.... these are his words" while all the time, you ignore the entire context, and when someone tries and explain it, you talk over them (if engaged in conversation.)
Typical Lib.
My comment about you whiny ed
December 18, 2006 - 01:23 ET by UnsaneMy comment about you whiny educators surely got under your skin. You, and every educator (or ex-educator) cannot accept the simple fact that you guys are a very recent development in world history. Why, how on EARTH did we progress through 6000 years of civilization without public schools???
Quick! Can you name a Founding Father of this great nation that went to a public school? If you can't...why, how did Thomas Jefferson EVER learn how to write, much less the Declaration of Independence???
I went to a public school, but I learned the basics of reading and writing right here at home, not due to some incompetent on government payroll who walks around thinking civilization will crumble without them. (See, I had this thing called a FAMILY, and they all made it their mission in life to ensure I not only learned how to read, but in fact how to enjoy reading. Yet another life skill noit provided by a public school. Weep some more.) In fact, legions of those incompetents spent days of valuable time trying to convince ME that I was holding my pencil/pen wrong...just because I wasn't holding it exactly like "the other kids". Translation: "I must have every student learn exactly the same way...I don't WANT to actually WORK to teach students!!!"
The sad fact is that I had few truly great teachers - my favorite one in elementary school actually did not care about how I held my writing utensil and worried about things more germane (like what I was learning, but you would have hated her, as would most other teachers - she was deeply religious, for one thing) - quite a few bad ones (I had to teach my junior English teacher HOW TO SPELL on one occasion) and the majority were mediocre ones. As most of my interests and passions were academic but far outside the realm of what schools were willing to teach me from an early age - I am self taught in quite a few things you and the rest of the public-school world/apologists greedily hoard the credit for.
Did I attend public school? Yes. Was it worthwhile or beneficial? Marginally, if that. I remember well my fifth grade teacher telling me I wouldn't get past sixth due to the way I held my pen. If she knew what I accomplished, and how, she would feel a sense of professional shame, I am sure...she would just be pissed off.
You educators simply cannot handle any criticism whatsoever. Just because I am some public school product does not entitle you to me kissing your feet, ring, and ass (hat tip to another NB poster) for some "great" education, and you are going to have to get used to that. If the day ever comes that I have some little Unsane Jrs. ready to attend public school - if I don't personally homeschool them - I will be a teacher's worst nightmare, rest assured.
"Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy." -Sir Winston Churchill, British statesman (1874-1965)
Before I forget
December 18, 2006 - 01:08 ET by UnsaneAlmost forgot...
I know you can't get through a single day without a Two Hours Hate on George W. Bush, but use that precious education of yours to review the Constitution. Bush does in fact sign the laws, but it is Congress that originates and passes them on to his desk for signature.
That the Congress, no matter who the party is, has refused to reign in spending, is shameful. No, I do not care who did it or why, because it is a violation of one of my most sacred tenets of economic/fiscal conservatism: spend less than you earn. Just because the government has been making more in revenues due to a good economy and tax cuts (in accordance with the glorious Laffer Curve) doesn't give them the license to spend more on things like $231 million Bridges to Nowhere (yes, I am looking right at you, Sen. Stevens!!!). As I pointed out last week, I am not a member of any political party...unless you count the Unsane Party. I have my own political principles that guide me at all times and though they sometimes mesh with the Republican Party, that isn't a guarantee - especially recently.
The reason people are taking shots at your education is that you decided to trumpet them as if it will give you more credibility on this site. Education is cared less about here than experiences. And to make it worse, you have taken shots at other people's education levels (before you cry, check your recent posts to me) - without having the slightest clue about who you are talking to! We don't care if you have 4, 50, 1000, or five trillion degrees here, or if they are all Ph. D.s - can you present a sound, logical argument here? That is all anyone at NB cares about.
"Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy." -Sir Winston Churchill, British statesman (1874-1965)
Okay, not all public school educators are stupid
December 18, 2006 - 02:59 ET by terrigWell, when I taught in the public schools it was because I could not afford to teach in the private schools. I spent 12 years in private school myself because the students went on strike at the public high school the year before I went there and the public school also said I tested as "retarded". Which is somewhat hilarious to me because while I don't have a Ph.D. I do have an Ed S. degree. It is a difficult job trying to teach those who do nothing but blame others for their problems, who whine about anything and everything but I do try my best to make sure the kids I teach learn about History.
Admittedly, having a bunch of
December 18, 2006 - 03:15 ET by UnsaneAdmittedly, having a bunch of adults who don't do their part to teach their children can be a painful experience I am sure. That is one major reason I am staying away from ever teaching at a public school. The way I would teach history would NOT be popular. The students would learn history and critical thinking skills, but I would be universally hated: by other educators, and by parents.
I am 100% in agreement that not all public school teachers are brain dead. My problem is that there are way too many that are, or are not passionate about what they do, or are just plain lazy. (The fact that I kept running into them as a student and run into them all the time as an adult is another.) And unfortunately, too many of those types are the fastest to blame everyone else (and the lack of money in their pockets) for the problems they themselves can solve. On that last point: you should see my high school yearbook. There is a section where the teachers are asked to compare students from that year to students of a decade ago. It quickly became a section where teachers showered their students with contempt. The amusing thing to me was that many of the accusations those teachers lofted at their students ("laziness" was a favorite) could be shot right back at them, and it showed in everything they did.
"Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy." -Sir Winston Churchill, British statesman (1874-1965)
Another liberal trying to revise history
December 17, 2006 - 09:48 ET by slapshotHey Joe
I looked back at the DJIA average, and it started tanking in Feb. 2000. This tanking also coincided with Clinton's anti trust suits against Microsoft. Couple this slide with 9/11 and you have a real problem developing.
I realize "publik edukatid" liberals such as yourself have difficulty understanding complicated graphs and tables. If and when you getaround to pulling your nose out of Hillary's ample bottom please review.
Also- I take it you are not interested in seeing Kerry's ORIGINAL from 180 (not the amended one issued later). Compared to your hero President who sold military secrets to the Chinese for campaign contributions. Also remember your hero engaged in phone sex over OPEN UNSECURED LINES opening himeslf up for blackmail.
Trolling with Joe Conservative
December 17, 2006 - 10:56 ET by BBallleaperWe don't put up with trolls like 8 week Joe "Liberal in Conservative Name". He'd be zotted faster than Clinton's premature ejaculation!
All liberals live in their little world of hate and self-hate. They relish killing unborn children. 30 million abortions since Roe vs Wade. Yet they blanch and recoil at the idea that the state might seek retribution from some mutant slug who has murdered innocent people. They can't get enough mentally deficient fellow travelers to pass their kook legislation, so they subvert the constitution and appoint radical leftists judges to legislate from the bench.
They rail against corporations and profits in the face of 70% stock ownership by regular Americans. They have to drive a "green" Prius even though a plethora of independent studies have shown that the raw energy required to build such a hybrid and then to recycle it is 4 times the cost of a regular fuel efficient car. I can almost hear their screams when the Toyota dealer presents them with a $6,000 bill for a replacement battery.
They let little pricks like Matt Damon denounce President Bush because his daughters don't join the military while they sit drinking cosmos in LaLa land and mentally masturbating each other over their self-indulgent Oscars.
To any rational person, Clinton was a sociopath, a hebephrenic schizophenic molester of women, a traitor to America, an empty suit who didn't make a move without a poll telling him where to vacation. But to demented liberals he was just a sexually-liberated man who, if he hadn't become President would have been a skid-row preacher saving souls from barbaric conservatives.
I wake up every morning loving my life and my children and my wonderful parents, my father who fought in France and Germany to make sure that sub-human liberal debris like JC could voice their hate and spew their self-hatred in a free country based on liberty and oportunity for all.
Kudos BB
December 17, 2006 - 14:34 ET by acumenWow! Bravo....very impressive!!!! Is that you Danny Bonaduce?
OMG! STFU.
December 17, 2006 - 11:12 ET by Uncle JohnOMG! STFU.
Well it runs in the family
December 17, 2006 - 02:09 ET by terrigHis son is a big moonbat as well over at Rolling Stone. I think it's interesting that NBC wants to go back to the "glory days" of the Clinton administration. I find it funny that the left & the MSM won't give any credit to President Bush and so many of them do not call him President Bush but Mr. Bush. We always have to hear "President" Clinton and his wonderful, wild economy which of course was built on a house of cards that collapsed.
BillClinton the first black president
December 17, 2006 - 02:14 ET by Carl KolchakDon't you people at Newsbusters understand Bill Clinton? Bill Clinton is called the first black preisdent. All US history books will probably be rewritten and Bill Clinton will be the hero of every story of all races. In fact did you know all Buffalo Soldiers were Bill Clinton? That's right Bill Clinton was every Buffalo soldier ever. Did you know Crispus Attacks was really Bill Clinton? That's right good old Bill Clinton was killed in the 'Boston Massacre', but came back to life and single handidly won the Revolutionary War. Did you know the Tuskagee Airmen were all Bill Clinton? That's right, Bill Clinton was every Tuskegee Airmen. We couldn't have succeeded in this great country without all the efforts of Bill Clinton.
"I've always been crazy, but it's kept me from going insane" Waylon Jennings
Crispis Attucks trivia
December 17, 2006 - 14:31 ET by dagdaCrispis Attucks was mulatto, not pure black. He was half Indian. So, the first half-breed (half-black, half Indian) was killed at the Boston Massacre. He also was not killed first, but probably second, after the round passed through the person in front of him. Those of you with a grip on the Revolutionary War also know that the Americans were pelting the British with snow balls (some packed the old fashioned way, with rocks) and that the Boston "Massacre" came some time before Lexington and Concord, when the war actually began.
Our real problem, then, is not our strength today; it is rather the vital necessity of action today to ensure our strength tomorrow. Dwight Eisenhower
Indeed, the Boston Massacre t
December 17, 2006 - 14:54 ET by UnsaneIndeed, the Boston Massacre took place on 5 March 1770, while the battles of Lexington and Concord took place on 19 April 1775.
"Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy." -Sir Winston Churchill, British statesman (1874-1965)
John Hancock
December 17, 2006 - 15:06 ET by dagdaOf course, John Hancock was famous for his annual rabble-rousing speeches condemning the Boston Massacre and keeping the wound fresh.
Our real problem, then, is not our strength today; it is rather the vital necessity of action today to ensure our strength tomorrow. Dwight Eisenhower
Bush Bashing
December 17, 2006 - 02:47 ET by Jerry MackJust more ammunition for the Bush bashing club. Most of them do not need much. The majority of the BBs have not read any thing more difficult than the back of a cereal box or beer can. Keith "O" and Rosie "O" are their fountains of political truths. But I guess it makes them feel good to at least belong to some thing!
I think Mt. Rushmore will be changed
December 17, 2006 - 02:49 ET by Carl KolchakI think Mt. Rushmore will not longer have Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln and Roosevelt, and they will get rid of all those four, and only have Bill Clinton's face. We all know that combined Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln and Roosevelt couldn't compete with all the accomplishments of Bill Clinton the greatest person ever born, past present or future"
"I've always been crazy, but it's kept me from going insane" Waylon Jennings
How to build a personality cult
December 17, 2006 - 02:55 ET by UnsaneYou just aren't going far enough for the Left, Carl.
1) Rename this country "the United States of Clintonia".
2) All presidential and other figures depicted on our currency must be replaced with likenesses of Clinton (taking a page from the Chinese who still feature Mao on all of their currency).
3) Rename Washington, DC "Clinton".
4) Top the Washington Monument, now renamed the Clinton Monument, with a massive gold statue of Clinton that faces the sun as it rises and sets.
5) Make sure that in every single hotel room in America, a copy of his biography is in every nightstand drawer, instead of that other book (it makes Leftists uncomfortable anyways).
Does this sound workable?
"Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy." -Sir Winston Churchill, British statesman (1874-1965)
Don't forget all Holidays should pay tribute to Clinton
December 17, 2006 - 03:06 ET by Carl KolchakDon't forget that all US holidays will be abolished and they will be named after Bill Clinton and all US citiizens will be required to sing praises to him during those festive times.
"I've always been crazy, but it's kept me from going insane" Waylon Jennings
Taibbi
December 17, 2006 - 09:24 ET by iveseenitallMike Taibbi-- another "economist" with " journalist" credentials --(an I.Q. south of 100 and a limitless liberal bias.)
MERRY CHRISTMAS!
NEVER,NEVER trust a liberal
Wait, I'm confused. I thought
December 17, 2006 - 10:03 ET by Dave DWait, I'm confused. I thought the economic prospects for the average guy (IE salary) has been flat for the past 30 years, at least that's what I was hearing during the run up to the election. Now they're saying that they weren't flat? I mean WTF?
Yet another demonstration the
December 17, 2006 - 11:35 ET by VT Con ManYet another demonstration the MSM is a leftist group, of free enterprise hating, anti-American socialists, who want nothing more than to put down the supporters of freedom, and prop up their leftist agenda as the better alternative.
He should watch out, for the free market Bull is about to....ouch.
Clinton economy - "millions of Americans lost"
December 17, 2006 - 12:48 ET by Gary HallI do othis way too often, however, who better to summarize the Clinton economy than one of the liberal media's favorite progressive liberal economists (my bold):
Friends. The guy is talking about the Clinton era, not Bush.
I'd like to know what these n
December 17, 2006 - 13:24 ET by MerlinI'd like to know what these nitwits think should happen with this money. I am not a wealthy person, by anyone's standards, but I could give a rats rear-end on what they do with their money. It's their's...they made the earnings happen, not these idiots that think nobody deserves to earn that much money. Frankly, I could care less about what size bonus's are distributed...IT'S THEIR MONEY!
I think John Edwards is right...we do live in two Americas. One that shows people that work hard move ahead and one that want's to take it away and feel that we should redistribute to those that don't have as much.
Anyone in this country has an opportunity to create their own wealth...they just need to be willing to work for it, not have others wealth redistributed.
Kleptocracy
December 17, 2006 - 14:16 ET by UnsaneJohn Edwards, like other Leftists, are just kleptocrats who think that if we just steal as much as possible from the successful, all problems will be solved.
Of course, I have still yet to see one Leftist present me with a historical example of a society that made it to the top ranks of civilization by constantly punishing its most successful, productive citizens in order to subsidize its biggest flops.
"Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy." -Sir Winston Churchill, British statesman (1874-1965)
Wow...Taibbi and his ilk real
December 17, 2006 - 19:43 ET by bigtimerWow...Taibbi and his ilk really do live on another planet. Sheeesh! What blithering lying tripe! (Btw...Dot.com anyone....how soon they forget)
Enough said....
Later all...to whomever all is, got to get dinner and get ready for my Chargers to play the Chiefs! Go Chargers! All.... the.... way! (Colts tomorrow night, geesh I hope they win, they are on a losing streak!) Check in later ...maybe...
"Once the coffers of the federal government are opened to the public, there will be no shutting them again." - Grover Cleveland
BT,Good luck with your Charge
December 17, 2006 - 19:45 ET by BlondeBT,
Good luck with your Chargers!