Nah, I'm a simple person. I just want you to define that t1 vs. t0 relationship so I can be clear.  So lets try again, you only get to operate with the following variables:

t0 - time of intercourse

t1 - time when the group of cells becomes an "unborn" baby.

You can even introduce new variables as long as you define them in relationship with t0 and t1. After we establish a base we can talk about abortion/death penalty/etc. If we have no base, talk about abortion or death penalty is meaningless.

Sorry Rog, but like you, I was educated at the Monty Python School of etiquette. :-)

"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...

Partial birth's fine with me and one count of homicide.

Not sure where the Catholic Church is today, but when I was growing up, if it was a choice between the mother and the child, the child won. If the choice was the child was killing the mother, the mother won.

Of course this was a time when divorce was not only uncommon, it was shocking and a moral failure in the family structure. My how we have changed!

Our real problem, then, is not our strength today; it is rather the vital necessity of action today to ensure our strength tomorrow. Dwight Eisenhower

I accept your apology.  I'll try to answer your questions.  I imagine Hospitals document births and deaths because of local, state and federal legal requirements.  The forms they use are typically issued by the county where the event takes place.  If I remember correctly, the official birth certificate is delivered by mail.  If you had a personal experience of a still birth, I am sincerely sorry for your loss.  Was your experience that a copy was given to you at the time?

I am not sure what a still birth will prove concerning women's rights.  I am in agreement with you that abortion results in a death.  Abortions are personal tragedies.  I accept this reality while harboring my opinion.  None the less, I believe women deserve the right to a safe abortion if they choose.

Please enjoy your grand children.  They are a blessing.  Your name calling is uneccessary.  It presents you as irrational.  Your post demonstrates that rational and irrational people can honestly disagree.  I hope your grand daughter grows up in an environment where she has access to equal opportunity and reward.  You might work on your tolerance of opposing viewpoints.  I guess I'm lucky that you don't get to decide about who goes to hell.  My God doesn't punish people for thier opinions.

The nineteenth amendment is limited to the right to vote.  Equality of rights under the law was not ratified.  These rights have been obtained through legislation and court decisions.

You ask some stimulating questions.  There must be abortions in this country only in the case of incest or rape.  States can outlaw abortions for any other reason.

My answer to your responsibility question is character.  Character, in my opinion results from the combination of genetic tendencies and life experience.

I don't agree that liberals just want an easy way out.  Liberals want the way out that provides the the least government interference in their personal life.

I am sorry for your sickness.   I don't know that this site points out all of the biases. Many believe media in the US is biased towards commercial interests.  Do you want freedom from that bias as well?   It doesn't take much courage in my book to agree with those in power.  For all the hue and cry about the liberal media, opinion in this country sure polls conservative.  Granted many people with liberal views create the media, but they don't seem to be changing many minds.  Does it matter more what people say and think or what they do?

That's it TH.  We men have NO rights when it comes to the unborn even though the unborn can't exist without us doing our part.   :~)    We have no say in the mothers decision to abort the baby even if we desire to raise the child without her.  Doesn't sound like equality to me.

I agree that men can't have abortions.  You are mistaken that I want one.  It is a matter if equality because without the right to an abortion, women are limited in their pursuit their other rights.  Have you heard the axiom, "Keep them barefoot and pregnant"?

I hope I have clarified my point to your understanding.  If you have clarifying questions, please ask.  Your statement of the typicality of my mindset is unwarranted.   I am unfamiliar with your "collectivist mindset" term.  How do you define that?  What do you mean by "mind" in this context?  If you mean my brain, I believe my grey and white matter to be as mushy as yours.  If you mean my perceptions of the world and my ability to understand ideas and make plans, I think you are resulting to insults rather than addressing the issues and discussing the point.  What is your vision for our nation and women's role in it?  What rights do women need to achieve your vision?

"....unfortunately around a third of the education is abstinece as the only option."

So what is the two-thirds of the education you failed to mention?

".....it is still better for more people to be fully educated."

Wouldn't that two-thirds you failed to mention add up to being fully educated?

"To put your beliefs above theirs is selfish and ignorant."

Indeed it is.....

OK.  I only saw your transcript so I will defer to you on the seriousness of Sawyer's question and Roberts answer. 

Your question may be fair and at the same time absurd.  The spider that initiated this serious colloquoy, Charlotte, has communication capabilities lacking in most invertibrates.  Relationships are easier to sell than creepy crawly things.  You might consider Roberts was selling the movie and answered the question she was asked.  Most viewers don't expect people promoting their products on TV to say only their most deeply held beliefs.  You brought up abortion rights, she didn't.

 I disagree with you on the spider advocacy thing.  I'd argue most folks wouldn't consider killing less a very sincere effort for advocacy.  It's possible you lost the context on this one.  My unsolicited advise is to stick to exposing and combating the liberal media bias.  You want to play to your strengths.  Every liberal entertainer drumming their latest product may not be a good opportunity for contrasting your opinions with theirs.  You water down your message.

The video link doesn't have the spider question. I have a hard time believing that Julia Roberts was being serious when she said "That's a person," or that Diane Sawyer was being serious when asking about her solidarity with spiders.

I hate to sound cold hearted, but in these "unsavable" cases, it is the fate of the parents, not the baby, is the primary concern of the physicians involved. It is a terrible experience to watch a child die, and in most cases the parents prefer to abort the baby and try to move on with building a family. I'm not a physician, but I would not even think of judging the families or the physicians in these cases.