Sunday Morning Fights: Brit Hume and Bill Kristol Tag Team Juan Williams

Photo of Noel Sheppard.

For those that missed it, a classic – and sometimes heated – debate about the Iraq War transpired on the most recent installment of “Fox News Sunday”. In the left corner was NPR’s Juan Williams. In the right corner, as a fabulous conservative tag team, were Fox News’ Brit Hume, and the Weekly Standard's Bill Kristol. This one did not disappoint (video available here).

The fun really got going when Kristol made the following observation about recent changes in position regarding the war: “Some of the Republicans are going wet or squishy, or whatever one wants -- that was a shock. Sam Brownback said to you just a few minutes ago he has growing impatience with the war in Iraq. Senator Smith said he's at the end of his rope.”

Williams eventually took issue with this:

Let me just say this. Squishy, impatient, you know, they'll be in the land of milk and honey -- the insurgents will be? What do you imagine, that somehow there's -- an American administration is coming in, Republican or Democrat, after President Bush that's just going to lay down and run away like scared little...

And that’s when the party started (partial transcript follows, but it really should be read along with the video to capture the priceless expressions on the faces of the participants):

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HUME: It will not be phrased that way, but if you listen to the -- listen. Listen, Juan, it's very simple.

WILLIAMS: But you know what? This is really -- I'll tell you something. Sometimes I just want to scream. You guys have been going on since this thing began. I mean, you don't give credit to people -- Nancy Pelosi, Howard Dean, Barbara Lee, people who said from the start this is a mistake. You put them down.

Now it's everybody's a surrender monkey, or impatient, or squeamish or weak. Why can't you say hey, there's a real problem in Iraq?

HUME: I know, Juan, but there is a real problem in Iraq. Everyone recognizes that. I asked Nancy Pelosi the very simple question, do you think it's more important to end this war or win it, and her answer was this is not a war to be won, this is a problem to be fixed, to be solved...

WILLIAMS: Right.

HUME: ... an issue to be resolved.

What she wants, and what a great many Democrats want and, I fear, an increasing number of Republicans want is to get the war over with one way or another and make it look as good as possible.

That is not a formula for success, and it is certainly not a formula for victory.

WILLIAMS: All I'm saying to you is let's define what you mean by victory. And I know the president keeps using that word and, in fact, there was criticism coming from the right for the Iraq study group not using the word victory and not talking about democracy.

HUME: No, but they did use the word success, and they did adopt the president's goals.

WILLIAMS: OK. All right.

HUME: I do not believe...

WILLIAMS: Let's just talk for a second about what we mean by victory. And my suggestion is to you is the reason Nancy Pelosi says to you it's a problem to be fixed is we're not fighting against Iraq. We're trying to develop stability in Iraq.

We're trying to find a way to get these sectarian groups to live together, and to protect Israel and to stabilize the Middle East. That's what we're trying to do. You shake your head. Am I wrong?

KRISTOL: How did Israel come into that?

WILLIAMS: Because I think Israel and the fact that so many of the -- so many of the Al Qaida types want to pick on Israel and say Israel is the source of their problems. We want to get that out of the way.

KRISTOL: And that's why the Shia are killing the Sunni...

WILLIAMS: No, I didn't say that.

KRISTOL: ... and the Sunni are killing the Shia.

WILLIAMS: I said that's what -- that's a convenient example for the extreme people, the Islamic extremists, to say that that's the reason for them to engage in terrorism. And we want to do away with that cause.

KRISTOL: I missed that excuse. Is that why the Shia are killing the Sunni in Iraq, because of Israel?

Marvelous. Simply marvelous. What follows is a partial transcript of this entire segment.

WALLACE: Well, I have felt for some time that the big story over the next few months will be how long congressional Republicans, not Democrats, but Republicans stand by the president's policy. From what we heard from Sam Brownback today and what we saw from Senator Smith, Bill Kristol, not long.

KRISTOL: I guess not. I mean, I think the president can hold if he articulates a strategy for victory, and I think the key for that probably would be more troops and especially saying -- acknowledging that we haven't -- we put other things first, or let's get out of Iraq as soon as possible instead of putting victory first.

But I agree. Some of the Republicans are going wet or squishy, or whatever one wants -- that was a shock. Sam Brownback said to you just a few minutes ago he has growing impatience with the war in Iraq. Senator Smith said he's at the end of his rope.

But this is a war, you know? There's a terrific e-mail from a 24- year-old sergeant in the Army Reserve, T.F. Boggs (ph), who wrote, "I feel like all my efforts, 30 months of deployment in Iraq and the efforts of all my brothers in arms are for naught. I thought old people were supposed to be more patient than a 24-year-old."

But he says he and his fellow soldiers understand that this will take time. He also wishes there were more troops, then they could clear and hold and build, but that it will take time.

It's pathetic. It's pathetic for adults to be impatient. The soldiers know it takes time and it's worth fighting. And Senator Smith and Senator Brownback -- gee, you know, it doesn't accord with their wishes of how the world would work.

WALLACE: Mara, I was going to ask you, you have a pretty good sense of what goes on on Capitol Hill. How restless do you think congressional Republicans are getting with the president's policy?

LIASSON: I think they are restless. I think they need to hear something from him that sounds like it's going to work. They just got drubbed, or thumped, as the president said, and I think there is a lot of restlessness.

You don't see this -- even John Cornyn, one of the most staunchest supporters of the president, has sounded impatient and frustrated. You have Brownback, you have Snowe, Gordon Smith.

I don't think this is a wholesale breaking with the president, but I think that he is not up for reelection again. They are. That's a truism. But the interests of the congressional Republicans and the White House are going to increasingly diverge unless, I think, Iraq can be gotten in hand.

HUME: The president may have been given a gift by the Iraq study group in the sense that it is generally in line with his purposes. Whatever he presents, if it seems to adopt a lot of what they say and represent what people seem willing, for reasons not clear to me, to call a new approach, may buy him some time politically.

Now, you know, he can be -- he can sustain this by virtue of the fact that he'll be commander in chief for the next couple of years. But if the political support ebbs away at the rate that it's going, it will be very difficult indeed.

And it will also leave the insurgents with the idea that all they've got to do is wait for this guy to leave office and they're going to be in the land of milk and honey in Iraq and will run the place.

So this is a tight spot militarily, where the options seem so few, and politically, where the ground is sliding away from the president.

WALLACE: Juan, let me...

WILLIAMS: Let me just say this. Squishy, impatient, you know, they'll be in the land of milk and honey -- the insurgents will be? What do you imagine, that somehow there's -- an American administration is coming in, Republican or Democrat, after President Bush that's just going to lay down and run away like scared little...

HUME: It will not be phrased that way, but if you listen to the -- listen. Listen, Juan, it's very simple.

WILLIAMS: But you know what? This is really -- I'll tell you something. Sometimes I just want to scream. You guys have been going on since this thing began. I mean, you don't give credit to people -- Nancy Pelosi, Howard Dean, Barbara Lee, people who said from the start this is a mistake. You put them down.

Now it's everybody's a surrender monkey, or impatient, or squeamish or weak. Why can't you say hey, there's a real problem in Iraq?

HUME: I know, Juan, but there is a real problem in Iraq. Everyone recognizes that. I asked Nancy Pelosi the very simple question, do you think it's more important to end this war or win it, and her answer was this is not a war to be won, this is a problem to be fixed, to be solved...

WILLIAMS: Right.

HUME: ... an issue to be resolved.

What she wants, and what a great many Democrats want and, I fear, an increasing number of Republicans want is to get the war over with one way or another and make it look as good as possible.

That is not a formula for success, and it is certainly not a formula for victory.

WILLIAMS: All I'm saying to you is let's define what you mean by victory. And I know the president keeps using that word and, in fact, there was criticism coming from the right for the Iraq study group not using the word victory and not talking about democracy.

HUME: No, but they did use the word success, and they did adopt the president's goals.

WILLIAMS: OK. All right.

HUME: I do not believe...

WILLIAMS: Let's just talk for a second about what we mean by victory. And my suggestion is to you is the reason Nancy Pelosi says to you it's a problem to be fixed is we're not fighting against Iraq. We're trying to develop stability in Iraq.

We're trying to find a way to get these sectarian groups to live together, and to protect Israel and to stabilize the Middle East. That's what we're trying to do. You shake your head. Am I wrong?

KRISTOL: How did Israel come into that?

WILLIAMS: Because I think Israel and the fact that so many of the -- so many of the Al Qaida types want to pick on Israel and say Israel is the source of their problems. We want to get that out of the way.

KRISTOL: And that's why the Shia are killing the Sunni...

WILLIAMS: No, I didn't say that.

KRISTOL: ... and the Sunni are killing the Shia.

WILLIAMS: I said that's what -- that's a convenient example for the extreme people, the Islamic extremists, to say that that's the reason for them to engage in terrorism. And we want to do away with that cause.

KRISTOL: I missed that excuse. Is that why the Shia are killing the Sunni in Iraq, because of Israel?

—Noel Sheppard is the Associate Editor of NewsBusters.


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"What she wants, and wha

"What she wants, and what a great many Democrats want and,
I fear, an increasing number of Republicans want is to get the war over
with one way or another and make it look as good as possible."

To make that war look as good as possible, has been official U.S. policy for 3 years now. So come on!

"Hegel says somewhere all great events and personalities in world history reappear in one fashion or another. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second as farce."
The Eighteeenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte (1852) sect. 1, Cf.

You are wrong, here is the

You are wrong, here is the stated congressional purpose for authorizing the Iraq war:

"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...

Were am I wrong then?

Where am I wrong then?

"Hegel says somewhere all great events and personalities in world history reappear in one fashion or another. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second as farce."
The Eighteeenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte (1852) sect. 1, Cf.

You stated:"To make th

You stated:

"To make that war look as good as possible, has been official U.S. policy for 3 years now"

That is not true, and you didn't provide a source. I provided a source of official U.S. policy. So you are wrong.

"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...

You provided a source in no

You provided a source in no way related to my comment. If this establishes credibility, I refer to the U.S. constitution. I don't think I have to provide a link to you. Seriously, I think you missed my point.

"Hegel says somewhere all great events and personalities in world history reappear in one fashion or another. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second as farce."
The Eighteeenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte (1852) sect. 1, Cf.

Your "point" impl

Your "point" implies deception. Now unless you can show a credible source for such an "offical U.S. policy statement", then please do so, otherwise restate the point without falsely stating the "official" government position.

"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...

Read Jaquelines post below.

Read Jaquelines post below. Despite his flaws in charakter, he understands me (to a certain degree).

"Hegel says somewhere all great events and personalities in world history reappear in one fashion or another. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second as farce."
The Eighteeenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte (1852) sect. 1, Cf.

I'll keep that in mind the

I'll keep that in mind the next time you post something totally false and infintile. BTW I am sure I won't have to wait long.

"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...

To make that war look as go

To make that war look as good as possible, has been official U.S. policy for 3 years now.

Please provide any instance where any governement anywhere has striven to make any war look as "bad" as possible.

Your point is idiotic, and childish.

Proud member of the all-powerful and vast
militarist/industrialist/capitalist/zionist-bagelist complex

Well we understand each other

Well we understand each other. And BTW: Thanx for the quote.

"Hegel says somewhere all great events and personalities in world history reappear in one fashion or another. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second as farce."
The Eighteeenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte (1852) sect. 1, Cf.

The dems are in a self-impose

The dems are in a self-imposed bind after scamming their way into office on the promise of an Iraq exit...can't wait until they're officially in office after the new year...going to be REALLY FUN! No more of this unnaccountable bitching from the sidelines, heh-heh-heh...

So will they cut and run or stay and do exactly what Bush has been doing all along...? I think we're seeing the post-election truth emerge now...just as it always does sooner or later...

Kafka and Hegel

There is nothing more juvenile, arrogant, elitist and pompous than some self-indulgent little twit who must constantly cite some antiquated, shop-worn aphorism in support of his inane argument.  Pathetic, trivial and trite!  Kafka and Hegel relevant indeed!  Please don't reply without quoting some equally stupid idiom!  I can hardly wait!

Victory

The left can't be trusted with our national security. They will not go the distance in fighting terorism, and Juan WIlliamms blares that into Kristol's ear.

The democrats , many of them voted for the liberation of Iraq, can't come back three years later and say we run Congress and now we run foreign policy and we want to retreat. If they felt that way about the liberation of Iraq, then they should never have voted for it in the first place.

Commiting to a war isn't the same as committing to a cell phone plan. There will be bad times and there will be reverses, but the single fact remains, we cannot, we do not, have any hope of victory if we leave before the mssion is complete.

Brute Force: If It Doesn't Work, then You're Just not Using Enough!

Commiting to a war isn't the

Commiting to a war isn't the same as committing to a cell phone plan.

CLASSIC

cell phone plan

right - the penalties are hugh

Juan Williams: Its the Jooooo

Juan Williams: Its the Joooooooooooooos!!!

James Baker III: Let's settle the Middle East problems without the Jooooooooooos to pressure us!!!

Dhimmi Carter: The Jooooooooooooos don't want peace!!!!

Adolf Hitler: The Jooooooooooos must pay for their greed and arrogance!!!

Ahmadinejad: The Joooooooooooooos are the cause of all the world's problems!!!!

Mel Gibson: The Jooooooooooooos start every war!!!!!

There, Juan has now taken his place with his friends.

Mr Kafir -- to save the cl

Mr Kafir -- to save the closeted anti-Semites finding even more things for which to blame the Jews, here's a handy list of other things

IT'S THE JEWS FAULT THAT...

Global warming is killing the planet

Princess Di died

9/11 happened

That Russian spy was poisoned in a London Sushi bar

Hugo Chavez is nuts

JFK was assassinated

and so on.

Proud member of the all-powerful and vast
militarist/industrialist/capitalist/zionist-bagelist complex

When do the Jews get to be le

When do the Jews get to be left alone????

Never, just by being Jewish

Never, just by being Jewish, they are the cause of all the problems in the world, haven't you been listening?

The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price,
peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of
soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life. Theodore Roosevelt

See this news story by Ibra

See this news story by Ibrahim Barzak, Associated Press writer high lites this "Jews are the cause of all the problems" point of view.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/12/11/D8LULISO0.html

Clearly if there were no Jews in the world, then this certainly would not have happened;

Palestinian gunmen killed three young sons of a
senior Palestinian intelligence officer Monday, pumping dozens of
bullets into their car as it passed through a street crowded with
schoolchildren in an apparent botched assassination attempt that could
ignite widespread factional fighting.

Had there been no Jews in the world, then obviously these upstanding members of Palestinian civilization, would have been on their way to the local square dance to democratically discuss ways to change their government. So once again, blood is shed by the Jews just being.

The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price,
peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of
soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life. Theodore Roosevelt

My bitter, sarcastic response

Anyone wonder why I call the ISG the "Israel Surrender Group"?  No one can yet tell me what Israel's occupation of the Golan (a good thing, BTW) has even remotely to do with the war in Iraq!  Once I heard those anti-Israel portions of the ISG, I hit the ceiling. 

"Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy."  -Sir Winston Churchill, British statesman (1874-1965)

Williams: Why can't you say h

Williams: Why can't you say hey, there's a real problem in Iraq. 

So, if W, and all the Republicans would say, Hey, there's a real problem in Iraq, all the Demos would be johnny on the spot, ready to help, ready to unite, ready to support a bipartisan effort..  and all that good s**t.  As if.

A big reason the Demos want to cut and run is because they don't want to deal with it if and when the take they WH and/or hold Congress in the next election. 

You know what, there is a problem in Iraq..  it's called Terrorists..  and guess what, we're killing 'em..  we need to keep on keeping on!  It might take 10 years, it might take more..  it's the world we live in.  We could have, should have see this coming decades ago, but we didn't.  It's Evil and we need to stamp it out. 

 

"We could have, should

"We could have, should have see this coming decades ago, but we didn't. It's Evil and we need to stamp it out. "

Some did see it. Rumsfeld predicted the growing threat of terrorism 20 plus years ago. Sadly, it was mostly ignored. What's even sadder however is most Americans today STILL don't get it and ignore the threat.

At the very least, Oliver Nor

At the very least, Oliver North detailed the terrorist activities of Palestinian Abu Nidal during the Iran-Contra hearings in 1987.  At least that's what you old folks tell me.

The IAF ( and maybe a few U

The IAF ( and maybe a few USAF) needs to fire up the bombers (and maybe a few Cruise Missles) and nuke every city in the ME. Then maybe the Arabs would have something to complain about. That is if there is any left to Bitch.

If they still complain, send in the second wave.

i like juan williams.  i mig

i like juan williams.  i might disagree with him but i like him.  however on this issue he was not at his best.

Williams

Williams tipped his hand. If we could just get rid of the Jew, right Juan. Liberals are such hypocrites.

NEVER,NEVER trust a liberal

Kudos to Bill K- He made the

Kudos to Bill K- He made the dem lay it out right on the table for all to view his ugly anti-semitic ideology & the lefts same racist mentality. The baker report is nothing but a blatant anti-Jew measure that proposes taking any say whatsoever away from Israel and give all the say to terrorists- The Baker report ALSO proposes sticking the knife in the backs of the Kurds once AGAIN! Baker should be immediately thrown off the panel and exposed for his despicable racist stances! He's trying to do what the league of nations did and DENY Israel a voice while pulling their country out from under them!!!

http://sacredscoop.com

al Bard Code

The libs would serve themselves well to remember the rest of the al Bard Code;

When you can't find a Jew,

an infidel will do.

ay, there's the rub........

I find myself in the strange

I find myself in the strange position of defending Juan Williams.  I'm so tired of politically correct restraint on free speech, people frivolously using the "race card" to shut people up.  Iran is hosting a Holocaust Denial Conference; that's anti-Semitic.  Williams' comments weren't anti-Semitic. Let's review:

WILLIAMS: Let's just talk for a second about what we mean by victory. And my suggestion is to you is the reason Nancy Pelosi says to you it's a problem to be fixed is we're not fighting against Iraq. We're trying to develop stability in Iraq.

We're trying to find a way to get these sectarian groups to live together, and to protect Israel and to stabilize the Middle East. That's what we're trying to do. You shake your head. Am I wrong?

His statements are incorrect, except for the part about "stabilizing" the area, but are not anti-Semitic.  A lot of people characterize our mission as he did. 

KRISTOL: How did Israel come into that?

WILLIAMS: Because I think Israel and the fact that so many of the -- so many of the Al Qaida types want to pick on Israel and say Israel is the source of their problems. We want to get that out of the way.

Williams is correct not only "Al Qaeda types" but many other Muslims blame Israel for many problems and think that the mission in Iraq is about Israel. 

KRISTOL: And that's why the Shia are killing the Sunni...

WILLIAMS: No, I didn't say that.

KRISTOL: ... and the Sunni are killing the Shia.

WILLIAMS: I said that's what -- that's a convenient example for the extreme people, the Islamic extremists, to say that that's the reason for them to engage in terrorism. And we want to do away with that cause.

KRISTOL: I missed that excuse. Is that why the Shia are killing the Sunni in Iraq, because of Israel?

Williams backpedals here where he shouldn't.  Despite Kristol's objections, one reason for the sectarian violence in Iraq is the Arab belief that American success in Iraq might lead to increased power for Israel in the Middle-East.  And before you fly off the handle and jump to conclusions, I'm not saying that these Arab beliefs about Israel have merit; I'm merely saying that their beliefs lead many to do whatever they can (including stirring up sectarian violence) to prevent the success of an American backed Iraqi gov't.  The Iraqis don't want a sectarian war/civil war; they want an orderly country.  But mainly external groups (w/ a few externally backed internal groups and some organized crime) are using Iraq as a battleground.

Let's just talk for a secon

Let's just talk for a second about what we mean by victory.

Trust a liberal not to even know what FRACKIN' victory is.

There's the problem with the likes of Williams, in a nut-suit.

Proud member of the all-powerful and vast
militarist/industrialist/capitalist/zionist-bagelist complex

I have some liberal friends t

I have some liberal friends that actually believe the entire "terrorism problem" will disappear if we just "give back Israel to the Palestinians."

If the nation of Israel is lost due to our actions then we need to give back this country to the Native Americans. Same argument holds. This means you liberals camped out in various places like NYC will have to give up your elitist lifestyles.

If we urge the displacement of a people due to our perceptions of injustice then we better be willing to apply that standard to ourselves.

Cunservatyve military medical guy

They sound like a bunch of charlatans at a circus sideshow: "Pay no attention to that news editor behind the curtain."

Say, if that happens, can we

Say, if that happens, can we hand back Anatolia to the Byzantines, and Japan to the Ainu, and India to the Dravidians....etc....?

"Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy."  -Sir Winston Churchill, British statesman (1874-1965)