Regular viewers of Fox News’ “Hannity & Colmes” know that the two hosts rarely agree on anything, and that when they do, their guests better watch out, because they’re going to be blasted from both sides. Such was the case Tuesday evening when H&C invited the Reverend Paul Scott of the Messianic Afrikan Nation to discuss his bizarre views about race and Christmas (video available here courtesy of our friend at Ms Underestimated). Colmes began, “So, you have a beef with Christmas this year, or every year?” The Reverend replied:
Well, the problem that we have is with traditional Eurocentric Christmas, the lily white Christmas. Christmas is the whitest time of year. And in a situation and a climate when black men are being shot by police officers, black -- elderly black grandmothers are being shot by police officers, black men are being forced to dance their way out of traffic tickets, white comedians feel that they can make jokes about black men.
Colmes accurately inquired: “That has nothing to do with Christmas, though, as you well know. Do you think most people look at Christmas through the lens of race?” The Reverend amazingly answered: “I think that racism is so prevalent in our society you can't separate anything from race.” He said that. He really did. And that’s when the fun started:
COLMES: What does the use of the "N" word by a couple of comedians, unfortunately using that word, have anything to do with Christmas? They didn't say, "Oh, look, Christmas is coming. I think I'll use this word." Why are you connecting the two?
SCOTT: Because there is a system in place right now that disrespects black people. We feel that one way to gain our respect, our self respect, to give our children respect, is to use this time of year to properly put the color of Jesus, or Yeshua, in its proper context and to replace those with black images. We feel that once we respect ourselves, others will be a forced to respect us. That's the whole purpose of being an black Christmas.
Though Alan was holding his own, his time ran out, and Sean entered the ring. This is too delicious to properly characterize without just sharing the transcript:
HANNITY: All right. Well, thank you, Alan. Mr. Scott, let me ask you this question. You used the term lily white, and this is the whitest time of year. What do you mean by that?
SCOTT: Traditionally, I know when I was growing up, the only images we saw were the nativity scene, all the cartoons were white images. And as a child, I always thought, where are the black people? Where are the black people in Santa town? Where are the black people in Jerusalem? So we're saying that we...
HANNITY: Do you not like -- do you not like white people?
SCOTT: I love all people.
HANNITY: You love all people. So I'm trying to understand. Did you literally say that I'm dreaming of a white Christmas never? Did you say that?
SCOTT: Yes, I said that. I mean, why should we always have a white Christmas? I mean...
HANNITY: Yes, but when they say "white Christmas," they're not talking about race. They're talking about snow.
SCOTT: Yes, but Christmas took place in Africa. Why are we talking about a white -- I mean, Jerusalem...
HANNITY: No, no, no. With the phrase...
SCOTT: ... talking about a white Christmas and that happened in Africa and...
HANNITY: ... white Christmas means people hope it snows.
SCOTT: But when you say -- when you say white, what comes to your mind? When you say black, what comes to your mind?
HANNITY: When they say white Christmas, snow comes to my mind.
SCOTT: Psychologically, subliminally, when you say white you -- white is always tied to something good. Traditionally, black has been tied to something bad. We're trying to put some color back in Christmas.
HANNITY: Where do you -- where do you come up with these cockamamie ideas? This is nuts. White Christmas is about snow and about Santa and about Santa Claus. I understand maybe you have some issues with Christmas, but you are obsessed with lily white -- this is the whitest time of the year. I'm dreaming of a white Christmas never.
SCOTT: Sean, let me ask you -- let me ask you this.
HANNITY: They're talking about snow, not white people.
SCOTT: When you were -- when you were growing up, did you ever sit on a black Santa Claus's knee?
HANNITY: You're missing the whole point, sir. Christmas is for everybody that wants to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ. That's...
SCOTT: That -- now, Sean, you know...
HANNITY: The surrounding issues of the snowman and Santa Claus and a white Christmas as a song has to do with snow, not white. It seems like you have a problem with race issues.
SCOTT: Now you know he wasn't born on December 25, right? And you know that the only reason that most people celebrate Christmas is the toys and the PlayStation.
HANNITY: I'm having a very hard time with this show tonight.
COLMES: The day he was born has nothing to do with his race, Mr. Scott. Thank you very much for being with us.
Merry Christmas!
—Noel Sheppard is the Associate Editor of NewsBusters. Follow him at Facebook and Twitter.
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Nat X: "Peace, brothers
December 7, 2006 - 11:25 ET by Roger the ShrubberNat X: "Peace, brothers and sisters! I'm Nat X, and welcome to 'The Dark Side', the only fifteen-minute show on TV. Why only fifteen? 'Cause the Man would never give me an hour! I think we all know who the Man is I'm talking about. I'm talking about the same man that calls a black cat bad luck, and a white cat pussy. I'm talking about the same man that teaches us if you squeeze hard into a black piece of coal long enough, you can turn it into a white diamond! Which goes to show, if you put enough pressure on any brother, you can tuen him into Bryant Gumbel! I just want to say that February is Black History Month. Isn't that nice? The Man gives us February because it's the shortest month of the year! Now, I'm not complaining, but I think we deserve at least a thirty-day month. It's also the coldest month of the year, just in case we wanted to have a parade."
I think that about covers i
December 7, 2006 - 11:31 ET by Uncle JohnI think that about covers it. One of Chris Rock's funnier bits.
That was the image in my head
December 7, 2006 - 11:47 ET by Roger the ShrubberThat was the image in my head the entire time. A stereotype of a stereotype!
EXACTLY what I thought of!
December 7, 2006 - 11:51 ET by balboaEXACTLY what I thought of!
White Christmas=racism. Damn you, Bing Crosby!!!
Now if the song was, say (ima
December 7, 2006 - 12:00 ET by Hero SquadNow if the song was, say (imagine poorly sung voice): "I'm dreaming of a white Santa," the Reverend might have a valid point.
Of course, it's not, and he doesn't.
*****
"You've got to turn on evil, when it's coming after you. You've gota face it down, and when it tries to hide, you've gotta go in after it, and never be denied
As a boy I always thought &qu
December 7, 2006 - 16:41 ET by TruthMongerAs a boy I always thought "White Christmas" was about my undeniable supremacy as a caucasion...I had no idea it was about snow...
Terrorists are not Muslims, Nazi's were not Christians, etc, etc...
Bal--good one. Heheh. Nev
December 8, 2006 - 04:25 ET by Andrew H.Bal--good one. Heheh.
Never relent.
Another group with a huge c
December 7, 2006 - 11:31 ET by sarcasmoAnother group with a huge constituency compared to any minor political party...
JMR
Sarc
December 7, 2006 - 11:34 ET by Noel SheppardJ,
One could argue that the constituency here as a function of population percentages is larger than any in the nation. ns
I think paying this kind of
December 7, 2006 - 12:00 ET by sarcasmoI think paying this kind of attention to fringe-racist nutcases accomplishes little good for anyone except said fringe racist nutcases. I suppose it's cheap, and gets better ratings than shows about bigtime government spending, though, so I can see why they do it.
JMR
I disagree. It's important
December 7, 2006 - 12:11 ET by fosstenI disagree. It's important to expose these people, because they are indoctrinating others to their way of thinking and they need to be rebutted. Awareness of this kind of insanity is not a bad thing.
You're missing my point. Th
December 7, 2006 - 15:03 ET by sarcasmoYou're missing my point. Thanks to Fox News and especially to Hannity & Colmes, I'm orders of magnitude more "aware" of a wide variety of black-racist-nutcases (Al Sharpton, too, not just this one) than I was of a variety of entire minor political parties' candidates during the election just-passed. It's not about "awareness of insanity" when it comes to a miniscule minority of belief in this case. Instead, it's all about ratings, as I said, but as long as they try to claim to be "fair & balanced" I get to point-out these inconvenient anomalies. I think the media in general & Fox News in particular paid WAY too much attention to macacamacacamacaca racial crap this election, and in the process effectively ignored more-important issues & some interesting people. They've especially-ignored out of control big-government spending IMO. But who wants to hear Walter Williams talk about fiscal responsibility when they've got hatemonger nutcases to cover?!? All I know is, my black friends' views sure resemble Professor Williams' views rather than the views of the nutcases, and those friends also seem to think black racist nutcases are over-represented on Fox News these days.
JMR
Sarc
December 7, 2006 - 15:16 ET by Noel SheppardJ,
But sadly it is all about ratings. Since CNN accidentally proved during Desert Storm that folks will watch the news if it's interesting enough, news divisions became profit centers. Once that happened, the news became secondary to the ratings.
This isn't about news, J -- it's about eyeballs. And, it's never going to change, for once we crossed over this threshold, there was no going back.
As for government spending, that's only sexy when the economy is doing poorly. Sadly, Americans don't care what the government is spending when their incomes are rising as are their personal expenditures. As such, the press isn't going to focus on this issue until the next recession. ns
Maybe some Fox News exec wi
December 7, 2006 - 15:35 ET by sarcasmoMaybe some Fox News exec will read this thread and at least for a moment consider giving Williams a call, just for the hell of it. I'm sure ratings would plummet with more than 5 minutes of economist-speak -- even with Colmes going full-tilt after him -- but it would sure make me happier with Fox News, because I think I've seen a clear pattern of over-representing a tiny-minority view. I'm reluctant to even discuss the issue with one of my black friends, BTW, because he's so angry about the bias. Frankly, I don't blame him a bit. Fox needs to shape-up on this issue, IMO.
JMR
Sarc
December 7, 2006 - 15:48 ET by Noel SheppardJ,
Didn't Walter used to do a lot of fill-ins when Rush would go on vacation? ns
Yes (only time I could ever
December 7, 2006 - 16:00 ET by sarcasmoYes (only time I could ever endure the constantly-repeating commercials!). I'll be honest, I think the Republican party should try to draft Williams* for the Presidency, and that's another reason I'd like to see him on TV. But the Republicans & Fox News obviously don't listen much to the likes of me, so I don't expect any of this to actually happen.
JMR
* I'm pretty sure he's sensible enough not to especially-want the job, but for me that's just another "George Washington" type of feather in his cap.
I'm so glad I don't watch
December 7, 2006 - 11:35 ET by Dee BunkI'm so glad I don't watch T.V. anymore. This show would have definitely
given me a headache. How outrageous - I could never even imagine that someone would
associate "White Christmas" as racist and to mean it's about white
people.
All I know is I'm really tired of the racist term "Whitewash" -
now that is offensive and racist. I'm kidding of course. I
guess we have to be grateful that people have it so good that they can find
such utterly stupid nonsensical things to complain about.
<begin sarcasm>And ho
December 7, 2006 - 14:43 ET by Tom1969ca<begin sarcasm>
And how about the "White House"? Everyone knows it's not called that because it's painted white; it's called that to remind folks that only white people can become President!
Last summer I went whitewater rafting; I looked around the boat and sure enough - not a black person in sight!
And let's not get me started on the city of White Plains, NY...
</sarcasm>
~~~
"Government should only do what only government can do."
-- Prime Minister Kim Campbell, 1993
Ever eat at a "White C
December 7, 2006 - 14:46 ET by MightyMouthEver eat at a "White Castle"? No blacks there either...
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
Can't white-wash any of this!
December 7, 2006 - 14:55 ET by bigtimerCan't white-wash any of this! Love the above posts!
"Once the coffers of the federal government are opened to the public, there will be no shutting them again." - Grover Cleveland
Not sure how long it's been
December 7, 2006 - 15:15 ET by MightyMouthNot sure how long it's been around, but the invention of "White" Chocolate probably drove this guy crazy!
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
I swear this is no joke. I
December 7, 2006 - 15:32 ET by Dave RI swear this is no joke. I was listeng to Boortz one morning a few years back, and we were having a bit of an ice storm here in Atlanta (hear that, Al Gore?) and some guy called in and objected to the term "black ice." I thought Neal was going to have a stroke. I was laughing so hard I nearly choked on the bagel I was eating.
Dreaming of a black ice Chris
December 7, 2006 - 15:39 ET by bassndudeDreaming of a black ice Christmas?
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
Hey, what about the Japanes
December 7, 2006 - 15:47 ET by Jack BauerHey, what about the Japanese guy who objected to the Beatles Yellow Submarine.
Oh that's right. There wasn't one.
I would say lighten up, but wouldn't want to be called a racist by some pasty faced college professor
Proud member of the all-powerful and vast
militarist/industrialist/capitalist/zionist-bagelist complex
Jack,That reminds me of a jok
December 7, 2006 - 16:28 ET by Dave RJack,
That reminds me of a joke that made the rounds when I was in elementary school:
Where does the Yellow River Flow?
At least now we have the Blac
December 7, 2006 - 16:45 ET by TruthMongerAt least now we have the Black Pages phone book, AND Black Entertainment Television, EBONY magazine, even a national association just to ADVANCE COLORED PEOPLE - these approved forms of racism are going to fix alot of this racism anyway...
Prejudice
December 7, 2006 - 11:40 ET by misterbillPrejudice comes in all colors. Until the Reverend (and I use that sarcastically), brought up the issue, I had never associated White Christmas with anything except snow. If he is a man of God , why is he spreading seeds of hate and distrust? What example is he setting for those he alleges to be helping. Please pray for him that he is imbued with the love of Christ over the very special Christmas holiday (holyday) season.
This is unreal. This is noth
December 7, 2006 - 11:49 ET by msh1973This is unreal. This is nothing more than an attempt to stir up trouble. For what purpose...to ban the song or the movie, "White Christmas"? Nothing surprises me any more from the left.
Just another Jesse Jackson wa
December 7, 2006 - 11:50 ET by mattmJust another Jesse Jackson wannabe trying to make a career out of racisim and hate.
I saw this segment....I canno
December 7, 2006 - 11:52 ET by bigtimerI saw this segment....I cannot believe how far idiots will go to try and crush this country, here we have another so-called black Reverend bitchin' and moanin' to boot!....it is real simple when I am singing 'I'm Dreaming of a White Christmas', I sure as heck am not thinking of black snowflakes...
If you are an environmentalist living in a dream-like world you might be (say like Miles O'Brien)...other that that these idiots are just another detriment to our country and should get the hell out of it if they do not like or respect it....and do not come back....
Btw....take the ACLU with ya while you're at it! Do something good for this country and help Afrika out at the same time with your silly, purposely destructive notions.
"Once the coffers of the federal government are opened to the public, there will be no shutting them again." - Grover Cleveland
blessed are the poorly informed
December 7, 2006 - 12:10 ET by RackieA-FREE-ka - such a pretty, evocative name -I'm sure there is more than one chunky-butt black girl running around calling herself A-FREE-ka. joy to the world
(don't make me go KFC on your white ass)
Well
December 7, 2006 - 12:25 ET by cvgbuckeyeI think the Rev Paul Scott is a racist nut and thats where that ends.
Having said that, I as a white person, can understand the difficulty that black parents have probably had, over the years, explaining to their children the dominance of white people in the Christmas scene as well as the American scene in general. AND I'm likely one of the most Conservative participants on this site. It has just been a fact of life. This has nothing to do with liberalism or Conservatism.
Throwing aside people like Scott, the rest of America should do what we have to do to make sure that our society lives up to it's Christian, inclusive, responsibilities. Although I have always felt that I have been fair to all, I am sure there have been times when I have left the wrong impression or have not fully appreciated , standing in other's shoes.
White Nativity scenes
December 7, 2006 - 16:14 ET by dagdaThe reason we have "white" Nativity scenes is the fault of the Renaissance artists who saw the Greek ideal body as the model for all things Christian. Prior to that Jesus was a good Jewish boy who got crucified. With the Renaissance he became a Greek god who was crucified. A Greek male has to be a Greek baby, hence the "white" Jesus.
The Rev. Scott tries to make the point that since Jesus was born on the African continent, he had to be black. He did not say that, but he inferred. This is the same thinking that makes Cleopatra (a Macedonian) black and all pharoahs black. It is poor history.
He is right when he says Jesus was not born on Dec. 25, he was probably born in the spring of the year (because of the references to lambs and calves). The holiday was co-opted by the Christians to compete with a barbarian holiday, the Saturnalia.
It is also a national holiday and the first national holiday. The Rev. Scott needs to lighten up. That kind of anger can give you ulcers.
Our real problem, then, is not our strength today; it is rather the vital necessity of action today to ensure our strength tomorrow. Dwight Eisenhower
Jesus was born in Africa?????
December 7, 2006 - 16:17 ET by bassndudeJesus was born in Africa??????????????? Wow! News to me.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
Sarcasm????
December 7, 2006 - 16:24 ET by dagdaAre you being sarcastic bassndude?
Our real problem, then, is not our strength today; it is rather the vital necessity of action today to ensure our strength tomorrow. Dwight Eisenhower
Israel is the Western Asian L
December 7, 2006 - 16:37 ET by bassndudeIsrael is the Western Asian Levant, however close to the African continent. Egypt is part of African continent, and borders Israel, but that border seperates Asian and African continents. So while close to Africa, is not in Africa. It is part of the middle east. Not Africa..
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
Locations
December 7, 2006 - 16:50 ET by dagdaAll of the African continent goes to the Med. The Middle East is not a continent.
Our real problem, then, is not our strength today; it is rather the vital necessity of action today to ensure our strength tomorrow. Dwight Eisenhower
Dagda
December 7, 2006 - 17:02 ET by Noel SheppardDag,
Israel is actually considered part of Western Asia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asia#Territories_and_regions. ns
My Bad
December 7, 2006 - 17:19 ET by dagdaThanks Noel and bassndude. My bad. Geography is not my speciality, but I was sure that it included all of the western Roman Empire. Guess not. :)
Our real problem, then, is not our strength today; it is rather the vital necessity of action today to ensure our strength tomorrow. Dwight Eisenhower
Hey Dagda...is all cool. I my
December 7, 2006 - 17:23 ET by bassndudeHey Dagda...is all cool. I myslef have learned alot here at NB's. Some of these guys are just down right smart...:-)
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
Hey Dagda...is all cool. I my
December 7, 2006 - 17:24 ET by bassndudeRemember the Reverend Gene Sc
December 7, 2006 - 17:23 ET by Dan The Man 2Remember the Reverend Gene Scott?
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark. -- save my gun, shoot a liberal.
There is only one thing I c
December 7, 2006 - 12:17 ET by james789There is only one thing I can think of to add to this post.
Character is far more important than intellect in making a man a good
citizen or successful at his calling- meaning by character not only
such qualities as honesty and truthfulness, but courage, perseverance
and self-reliance. ~ Theodore Roosevelt 1890
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price,
peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of
soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life. Theodore Roosevelt
Wasn't Kwanzaa created for bl
December 7, 2006 - 12:53 ET by GothampcWasn't Kwanzaa created for black people who felt disenfranchised from Christmas? Why doesn't he celebrate that if he hates white Christians so much?
...and shouldn't we get a whi
December 7, 2006 - 16:53 ET by TruthMonger...and shouldn't we get a white Kwaanza? I want a white Kwaanza!
I thought that's what Festi
December 7, 2006 - 21:41 ET by hydrodynDMI thought that's what Festivus (for the rest of us) was.
I can't help but think that the writers of Seinfeld came up with it as a kind of jab at Kwaanza. I mean, if we can start making up holidays, why not Festivus?
I say, snow on him! Snow on h
December 7, 2006 - 12:55 ET by bassndudeI say, snow on him! Snow on him a whole lot!!
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
A few years back, H&C had the
December 7, 2006 - 12:56 ET by KimberlyA few years back, H&C had the leader of the New Black Panthers, Malik Zulu Shabazz, on as a guest. The guy was so singularly obnoxious, racist, anti-semetic, and completely insane, that Alan Colmes deadpanned at the end of the interview, "Sir, I'd like to thank you for being the first guest that actually managed to get Sean and I on the same side of an issue."
Sounds like this guy was in that vein.
I think the H&C booker li
December 7, 2006 - 13:19 ET by GothampcI think the H&C booker likes Shabazz because they have had him on a couple of times. Just this week they had him on.
While I applaud Alan Colmes s
December 7, 2006 - 14:00 ET by Chris NormanWhile I applaud Alan Colme's brief foray into sanity, he should be reminded that bizarre ideas, like Rev. Scott's, are the end result of a stream of political and social thought that Liberals, like Colmes, himself, usually defend and even promote.
The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.
- Arabian Proverb
I think he brings up a valid
December 7, 2006 - 15:14 ET by mikejI think he brings up a valid point. Look how racist Mother Nature is. "Black Ice" is the cause of car accidents and serious injury. Snow is always White! Those are facts right there!!!
But what about Black Friday? That's supposedly a good day for retail stores? But not for those people who actually have to work in those stores, so again, it does conjure up hatred toward blacks because someone has to work on "black" friday.
I know that I'm always upset when imaginary people who don't exist, are always the same race. Santa Claus, Cupid, Leprachaun's, Uncle Sam, Tooth Fairy, Easter Bunny (always white fur!) Thanksgiving (Everyone likes white meat better than dark meat)
Is it any wonder black people languish when they have so called "leaders" like these?
take this you honky mo............
December 7, 2006 - 16:52 ET by RackieOh I so love to slide a sharp stick ever so slowly into a soft, lilly white marshmellow and then hold it over a fire until it turns black. And then I..... EAT IT. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Um, just to, like, correct
December 7, 2006 - 16:59 ET by balboaUm, just to, like, correct you? Leprachaun's? They're not white? They're, like, Irish?
fairyland
December 7, 2006 - 18:13 ET by RackieI'd like to correct you both - it's leprechauns.
What color do you suspect the bogey man is thought to be?
Anyone ever notice how thos
December 7, 2006 - 18:33 ET by ckc1227Anyone ever notice how those who see racism the most tend to be the biggest racists?
Name callers
December 7, 2006 - 18:43 ET by dagdaI think it is called "transference." (sp?)
Our real problem, then, is not our strength today; it is rather the vital necessity of action today to ensure our strength tomorrow. Dwight Eisenhower
Is that the monster that adds
December 7, 2006 - 20:58 ET by balboaIs that the monster that adds strokes to your golf score?
Thanks for the coffee spew
December 8, 2006 - 10:22 ET by MightyMouthThanks for the coffee spew Amigo! LOL!
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
re: racism
December 7, 2006 - 19:28 ET by dejourWhile Rev. Scott spouts a lot of nonsense, I think he raises an interesting point when he suggests that you never see a black Santa Claus.
Maybe they are more commonplace than I think - but I've never seen a black Santa Claus at a mall. It may not be racism - maybe black men just don't apply for the job of Santa at the mall.
If I was a black man, and I applied for the job of Santa Claus, and I was turned down solely because of my skin color I'd be upset. I don't think black men can be upset if they are not hired to impersonate Elvis or Abe Lincoln - these are historical figures and they are white. But Santa Claus is fictional.
St. Nick
December 7, 2006 - 19:38 ET by dagdaSanta Claus, just like Elvis, is white. His source is St. Nicholas, who was white. Personally, I would not be offended by a black Santa, just as I am not offended by a black Virgin Mary. Still, it would be historically incorrect.
Our real problem, then, is not our strength today; it is rather the vital necessity of action today to ensure our strength tomorrow. Dwight Eisenhower
Funny how most things that
December 7, 2006 - 19:40 ET by DontFeedTheTrollsFunny how most things that are 'politically correct' are historically incorrect.
DSG
re: Santa
December 7, 2006 - 19:58 ET by dejourFine, Santa Claus has a source in St. Nicholas. But the similarities between the two are so small they may as well be different people.
The historical Saint Nicholas lived in Asia Minor, was a priest or bishop, spent time as a sailor, and spread Christianity in Greece and Turkey. Not fat to the best of my knowledge.
Santa Claus is a fat, jolly old fellow who lives in the North Pole, flies around the world with reindeer, and has a workshop of elves building toys.
If you're going to say that black Santas are not historically accurate, then you could equally argue that the reindeer, sled, and elves should also go.
Fat Santa Claus
December 7, 2006 - 20:02 ET by dagdaFat Santa is the product of Coca Cola Bottling Co. What is good for Coca Cola is good for the USA! There are several countries whose tradition includes a slimmer Santa or St. Nick. Right now, ours does not.
Our real problem, then, is not our strength today; it is rather the vital necessity of action today to ensure our strength tomorrow. Dwight Eisenhower
Santa Claus is the English ba
December 8, 2006 - 10:33 ET by kirch66Santa Claus is the English bastardization of the Germanic/Sandanavian name Sinter Klaus, which come from Saint Nicholas. He is the Catholic patron saint of children. The name Santa Claus is a shortened form by way of Sinter which become Santa when audibly translated into English. If you say Sinter Claus and Sint Ni-CLAUS you can hear "Santa Claus" come out. The first syllabal eventually got diminished and then lost when it became a true English name. That is where we get the name of Santa Claus. It's also the origin for St. Nick. I have no idea where we get Kris Kringle tied to this person. It's a Scandanavian thing that got rolled into Santa Claus I guess.
He was know for bringing toys to poor children by walking around to towns and handing them out. As the story became fablized and spread throughout the Middle Ages he aquired a helper who travelled with him to hand out the bad-list toys like sticks and coal. This helper became the helper elves as the story further evolved.
The story of Santa Claus is a perfect example of that game we played in class where you whisper a story in the ear of someone and they whisper it to another and so on and so forth until the last person tells the story and it is nothing like the orginal in fact but has roots in the orginal story.
They are the same person and story that has been changed through time. By the time Thomas Nast was commissioned to do the portrait for Coca Cola, Christmas had only been being celebrated widely as we know it for only 50 or 60 years. Santa had become an elf much shorter than we think of today. He was actually a small little sprit-like character. The holiday had been brought to England from Germany by way of royal marriage. The queen's husband was German and brought the traditions of the Christmas tree and decorating and gift giving to England, which by way of our mutual cultural links, was transferred to American with the waves of immigrants during the 1800s.
So portraying Santa Claus as black IS actually historically incorrect.
And portrying Jesus as a black person even if this nut case claims it was in Africa means nothing, because Jesus was a Middle Eastern Jew. So if anything that is how he should be portrayed - that's darker than a European but that's still not black!
...and what about one of those Wise Kings who visited the birth of Jesus? Wasn't one of them usually portrayed as black. I always grew up seeing one as Asian, White and one Black.
"The moment you give up your principles and your values, the moment you laugh at those principles and those values, you are dead, your culture is dead, your civilization is dead. Period." - Oriana Fallaci
Found the reference to Kris K
December 8, 2006 - 11:06 ET by kirch66Found the reference to Kris Kringle. And I should have know it since I spent several Christmas seasons in Germany and saw the name "Christkindl" in the article below used often.
"The moment you give up your principles and your values, the moment you laugh at those principles and those values, you are dead, your culture is dead, your civilization is dead. Period." - Oriana Fallaci
But the similarities betwe
December 7, 2006 - 20:16 ET by Jack BauerBut the similarities between the two are so small they may as well be different people.
But of course, they ARE the same person. That's why, as you say, the differences are so small.
Proud member of the all-powerful and vast
militarist/industrialist/capitalist/zionist-bagelist complex
"But the similarities
December 7, 2006 - 20:38 ET by JAB"But the similarities between the two are so small they may as well be different people."
Would you care to make sense of that statement so I can attempt to continue with the rest of your post?!
"Too bad Ignorance isn't painful to the Ignorant"
Good golly guys, where's this
December 7, 2006 - 20:47 ET by Clear thinkerGood golly guys, where's this thread going?
Oooops, I spoke too soon.... it just occured to me that the Easter Bunny might have been black.
I'm betting nobody wants to take responsibility for the tooth fairy.
I do not remember any mytho
December 7, 2006 - 20:50 ET by dagdaI do not remember any mythological fairies as being other than white. However, I am aware of some real fairies who are black.
Our real problem, then, is not our strength today; it is rather the vital necessity of action today to ensure our strength tomorrow. Dwight Eisenhower
dejour, It isn't a matter o
December 7, 2006 - 22:03 ET by hydrodynDMdejour,
It isn't a matter of historical accuracy, it's a matter of historical context. The group or civilation which has created or adopted a mythology pretty much dictates the details.
To me, it's no different than with authors of fictional characters, worlds or myths. Why not complain about never seeing Sherlock Holmes or Frodo portrayed as anything other than white?
The number of black Santa's in malls isn't relavent. The original criticism had to do with the way Santa is portrayed in popular culture. But the criticism is ridiculus. The mythological Santa is white. Just as the mythological King Arthur is white, Just as the humanoid Chinese mythological figures are Chinese and ditto (I'm guessing) for humanoid African mythological figures being black.
Exellent excellent point! G
December 8, 2006 - 10:48 ET by kirch66Exellent excellent point! Great post. All of this PC crap is just mere revisionism without having to create anything themselves.
And isn't all this talk of racism really what the season is about <sarcasm>. I'm sure Jesus would be proud of this guy focusing on this aspect of the representation.
To me, being a Christian, it's offensive that this guy is using religion and this time of the year to try to further his loathing of a society that has given him more opportunities to suceed than he could have had anywhere else in the world.
If people hate this country so much why don't they go live in some other country for a while and see if they like it there better? That's not some agry platitude, I did it for three years and loved it but not enough to hate my own country and not return. I think every American high school student should have to live in a third world country for one year in order to graduate. It would open their spoiled eyes to what they really have here and half of this "racial" and "prejudice" non-sense would evaporate. They are mostly arguing the point from a spoiled American-centric point of view. They have often never lived anywhere else to make the accusations that they do.
"The moment you give up your principles and your values, the moment you laugh at those principles and those values, you are dead, your culture is dead, your civilization is dead. Period." - Oriana Fallaci
on a Merlot drip
December 7, 2006 - 21:59 ET by Rackiedagda says "...a black virgin" - now that's funny
I think he raises an intere
December 7, 2006 - 20:19 ET by Jack BauerI think he raises an interesting point when he suggests that you never see a black Santa Claus.
Sure, about as interesting as the choice of a black actor to play Ray Charles in the movie "Ray."
Proud member of the all-powerful and vast
militarist/industrialist/capitalist/zionist-bagelist complex
Rest assured that if ANY bl
December 7, 2006 - 20:35 ET by james789Rest assured that if ANY black man got turned down from being Santa because of his race or color, it would have been front page news because of the civil lawsuit that the good reverands Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson would have filed.
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price,
peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of
soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life. Theodore Roosevelt
I was thinking that too. I
December 7, 2006 - 20:43 ET by Jack BauerI was thinking that too. I have no idea how many people apply for any Santa posts going.
But no way should any person be discounted on grounds of race, black, brown, asian, whatever. And I can't belive they have been these days.
Jolly and kind to children would seem to be the only criteria.
Funniest movie (dissolute) Santa? Dan Ackroyd in Trading Places.
Proud member of the all-powerful and vast
militarist/industrialist/capitalist/zionist-bagelist complex
Worst Santa
December 7, 2006 - 20:45 ET by dagdaHas to be Billie Bob Thronton in Bad Santa.
Our real problem, then, is not our strength today; it is rather the vital necessity of action today to ensure our strength tomorrow. Dwight Eisenhower
Sorry, the best Santa was the
December 9, 2006 - 09:24 ET by Casey97Sorry, the best Santa was the drunk mayor in Dennis Leary movie "The Ref".
Boy: Santa doesn't drink champaigne. Santa only drinks milk.
SANTA: [quietly] Listen. Santa can't drink no more milk. Santa has a lactose intolerance, and it gives him horrible gas pains. Do you want to see Santa farting down everybody's chimney?
but the funniest is when the drunken Santa says something to the effect of "You want to fight me.. I'M SANTA CLAUS!!!"
/*-/*-/*-/*-/*-/*-/*-/*-/*-
With Democrat revisionist history and liberals guaranteeing the future (global warming, nuclear destruction, etc.) only the future is certain; the past is always changing<
You don't see a Black Santa because..>SANTA IS WHITE...sheesh!
December 8, 2006 - 13:33 ET by Guy Arthur ThomasSanta Claus is white. Santa Claus as we know him now is fictional but is based on Saint (Santa) Nicholas (Claus), the Bishop of Myra, from Turkey. There is nothing black or negroid about Santa Claus or Saint Nicholas, end of story. There is nothing racist about Santa being white, that is just a fact. What is RACIST is a black man unable to accept the whiteness of someone and their white culture, whatever that may be.
If you claim to be a conservative, please don't disgrace yourself and conservatism by thinking and arguing like a liberal.
Shows like H&C have peopl
December 8, 2006 - 04:28 ET by Andrew H.Shows like H&C have people like this on for shock--viewer attraction. Sad to give a nut a forum like this. It would seem du or dailykos on the web is enough. I hope they didn't pay him for sputtering such nonsense.
Never relent.
Not to nitpick, but I think
December 8, 2006 - 05:08 ET by liberal_bug_zapperNot to nitpick, but I think it is well thought that Jesus was neither black, nor white, but olive. His parents were natives of the region.
Jesus was an Olive?But was he
December 8, 2006 - 10:51 ET by kirch66Jesus was an Olive?
But was he a green olive or a BLACK olive???
"The moment you give up your principles and your values, the moment you laugh at those principles and those values, you are dead, your culture is dead, your civilization is dead. Period." - Oriana Fallaci
Depends on where you are &a
December 8, 2006 - 11:07 ET by sarcasmoDepends on where you are & when...
JMR